How do I tighten my old Wave?

[Quartz]

I have a really old Wave, one of the first generation before the thin removable bits were a thing. Over the years, one of the hinges to the pliers has gotten rather loose and floppy. The screws for the hinges appear to be some proprietary thing that resembles a five-pointed torx with a center pin, kinda like Apple's pentalobe but pointier. I've never seen this bit before and none of my security/special kits have anything like it. Does anyone know what this driver is called and where I can buy one? Failing that, is there any way to tighten the hinges some other way? I tried grabbing the discs with other pliers but that didn't really work.

[enki_ck]

These should do the trick I think.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161141138373

Heat the screws a bit first to loosen up the loctite if you have problems turning them.

[neillcurrie]

Leatherman simply hit the handles where the pliers pivot with a hammer and punch. That's what they did to my warrantied Wave a year ago.

[Quartz]

Hmm. This guy says they're pentalobe though, which the screws on my wave definitely are not (and his picture is so out of focus I can't tell). I don't want to buy a set only to end up with a pair of pentalobes I can't use. I take it this screw doesn't have an actual name?

[Quartz]

Leatherman simply hit the handles where the pliers pivot with a hammer and punch. That's what they did to my warrantied Wave a year ago.

Eh.. I don't use my wave often but I'd like to do it right and not just bash it. The outside tools work great and share the same pivot so I don't want to mess them up.

[Quartz]

Also, that ebay guy says both drivers are "size 10", but my wave has two different sized screws, one bigger and one smaller on each pivot.

[enki_ck]

Also, that ebay guy says both drivers are "size 10", but my wave has two different sized screws, one bigger and one smaller on each pivot.

The 10 size refers the the size of the torx driver, not the screws themselves. The name of the screwdriver is TS10. And pentalobe means that it has 5=penta lobes or "wings". The new/current waves now use 6 star torx, same size and security hole in the middle just with one extra "wing", and the name of it is T10S, so the S just changed sides.

[babola]

Hmm. This guy says they're pentalobe though, which the screws on my wave definitely are not...

 

If it's the original Wave you own, then the screw slots are definitely 5-prong star pentalobes.
New Wave as Enki mentioned comes with 6-point star (torx).

The screwdrivers in that auction are the real deal, and work on original (first model) Wave - tested and proven.

[babola]

Leatherman simply hit the handles where the pliers pivot with a hammer and punch. That's what they did to my warrantied Wave a year ago.

Did they hit it in any particular area above or below the pivot hole or right smack in the middle?

The reason I'm asking is that I also have one of dose wobbly OG Waves and looking for the best way to address the issue.

The simple pivot screw tightening won't fix the floppy handles when closed, it will only make OHO tools harder to open 

Any picture that you can post of yours? Many thanks in advance!

Cheers.

[babola]

Quartz, is this the Wave in question?

[Quartz]

The 10 size refers the the size of the torx driver, not the screws themselves.

Right, but that size is directly related to the size of the screw it works with, is it not? ie; a "T8 torx driver" only unscrews T8-sized screws.

And pentalobe means that it has 5=penta lobes or "wings".

No, "pentalobe" is a specific shape of driver. Not any random screw with five spikes/wings/etc counts as "pentalobe", it has to have the marked round inside edges.

This is an actual pentalobe, a polydrive, and a security torx:



Note how the pentalobe has a very distinct rounded shape to the 'wings', the polydrive has a distinct geometric shape, and the torx has kinda rounded off points.

What I have in my wave looks like a 5-wing variant of the polydrive, but with a center pin like a security torx. And there are two sizes of them, one slightly smaller than the other. I'm pretty sure no one driver could fit both at the same time.

[Quartz]

The screwdrivers in that auction are the real deal, and work on original (first model) Wave - tested and proven.

Tested by who? Have you personally bought that set from that seller?

[Quartz]

Quartz, is this the Wave in question?

Maybe? I don't know enough about all the different models of wave to say for certain, but the outward appearance looks close. Those big flat pancake screws at the pliers pivot end look different on mine though- if you notice in your pic, the one on the left is flush with the surface of the disc, whereas the one on the right has a slight interior bevel. On mine, this is reversed (the ones on the left have the bevel) and the beveled ones are smaller than the flush ones. The overall shape of the bit cutout looks the same otherwise though, with the more squared off ends to the wings (as opposed to pentalobe's round shape).

edit: the only markings besides "Leatherman Wave pat pend" is a row of four faint numbers inside the tool bay behind the screwdrivers. It says either '0999' or '6660' (no idea which way is rightside up).

[Quartz]

The simple pivot screw tightening won't fix the floppy handles when closed, it will only make OHO tools harder to open 

Oh, I didn't even think of this. If messing with those screws doesn't solve the floppy issue, than what kind of screw they are is moot.

[babola]

What I have in my wave looks like a 5-wing variant of the polydrive, but with a center pin like a security torx. And there are two sizes of them, one slightly smaller than the other. I'm pretty sure no one driver could fit both at the same time.

You have exactly what Enki and I talk about, a pentalobe security screws- hence "S" in TS10.

All eight pivot screws on original Wave are the same size, and the screwdrivers in that auction will fit all eight.

[babola]

The screwdrivers in that auction are the real deal, and work on original (first model) Wave - tested and proven.

Tested by who? Have you personally bought that set from that seller?

Tested by me personally.

[babola]

Quartz, is this the Wave in question?

Maybe? I don't know enough about all the different models of wave to say for certain, but the outward appearance looks close. Those big flat pancake screws at the pliers pivot end look different on mine though- if you notice in your pic, the one on the left is flush with the surface of the disc, whereas the one on the right has a slight interior bevel. On mine, this is reversed (the ones on the left have the bevel) and the beveled ones are smaller than the flush ones. The overall shape of the bit cutout looks the same otherwise though, with the more squared off ends to the wings (as opposed to pentalobe's round shape).

There really cannot be a "maybe", it's either old or new Wave. There's no model in between.

If the stamp on the handles says 'Leatherman Wave' there will be only to possible options - old thin profile model without the lock lever for the lower tools, or the new one.

The shape of top pivot screws  is the same on both Waves, the difference is pentalobe or torx security screw type.

Post a photo of yours here and all will be revealed...

The simple pivot screw tightening won't fix the floppy handles when closed, it will only make OHO tools harder to open 

Oh, I didn't even think of this. If messing with those screws doesn't solve the floppy issue, than what kind of screw they are is moot.

Correct, a simple screw tightening will NOT fix the handle floppiness issue.

[Quartz]

All eight pivot screws on original Wave are the same size, and the screwdrivers in that auction will fit all eight.

That may be true for your wave, but I'm trying to tell you that for the wave I have here in my hand, those screws are NOT the same size. I'm not eyeballing it either- the small ones are about 2.5mm wide whereas the big ones are about 3mm. (And they're not the rounded shape of a pentalobe either)

[babola]

All eight pivot screws on original Wave are the same size, and the screwdrivers in that auction will fit all eight.

That may be true for your wave, but I'm trying to tell you that for the wave I have here in my hand, those screws are NOT the same size. I'm not eyeballing it either- the small ones are about 2.5mm wide whereas the big ones are about 3mm. (And they're not the rounded shape of a pentalobe either)

That ain't the Wave you have then, or is a heavily modified one.

Why don't you post a photo of that "puppy"?

[Quartz]

Post a photo of yours here and all will be revealed...

Yeah, I already figured I'd end up having to do that. I don't have a camera with macro capability on me right now though. I'll post a pic in a couple hours.

Correct, a simple screw tightening will NOT fix the handle floppiness issue.

Bleh, well if that's the case then this screw argument is a waste of time (although I'll post a pic anyway later). So the question now is how neillcurrie's was tightened by whacking it with a hammer. If that's route I have to go, I want to make sure I do it right.

[babola]

Bleh, well if that's the case then this screw argument is a waste of time (although I'll post a pic anyway later). So the question now is how neillcurrie's was tightened by whacking it with a hammer. If that's route I have to go, I want to make sure I do it right.

Nope, not a waste of time. You will still require a screwdriver to remove the screws even if you go down the simple 'hammer whack' route. Doing this with the pliers attached asks for trouble and the potential of stuffing it up irreversibly is so much greater. If I were you I'd also explore an option of giving it a squeeze in a vice handle-lengthwise (with all 8 screws removed) before deciding to attack it with something like a punch or a hammer.

[Quartz]

OK, trying to get these pictures was a serious pain in the ass. After messing with a bunch of tripods and different types of lighting, this is the best I can do. The ruler markings are millimeters.

You can see that in addition to the left side screws being smaller than the right side ones, they're also slightly shallower. The overall shape very definitely has squared off ends at the furthest extent. This is unlike an official pentalobe which has round concave cutouts at the furthest extent with the sharp convex points between them. It's not a torx, since torx doesn't have squared extents, and it's not exactly a polydrive either, as the convex dividers are clearly rounded instead of having four distinct sides. (Although a five-sided polydrive might fit anyway. I'm less convinced that a pentalobe or five-sided torx won't strip since there's limited contact area at the important spots).

The center pins are close enough in size that the difference is probably just machine tolerances. A driver small enough to fit the smaller screw might have enough contact area to also work the larger screw without stripping, but I'm not sure.

[Quartz]

The name of the screwdriver is TS10.

HA! Got it! From Wikipedia:

    * A Torx successor, Torx Plus®, was introduced about 1990 when the original Torx patent was expiring. The lobes are more square to allow for higher torque and minimize wear. The name is shortened to IP (Internal Plus) with sizes ranging from 1IP to 100IP [16] (sometimes listed as IP1 to IP100 [17]) and EP (External Plus) with sizes ranging from 1EP to 42EP as well as smaller sizes ranging from H7EP to H2EP and includes five-lobed tamper-resistant variants.[16] The specifications for these licenses are held by Textron. Standard Torx drivers can be used to drive Torx Plus screws, but not to full torque because of the loose fit. Torx Plus drivers will not fit into standard Torx screws.

    * A tamper-resistant version of Torx Plus® exists having five lobes rather than six, plus a solid post in the center, and is used for security as the drivers are still uncommon.[18] Though Acument (formerly Textron) lists no designation,[19][20] TS [21] or IPR [22] may be seen.



http://www.amazon.com/Anytime-5-POINT-TAMPER-SECURITY-SOCKET/dp/B0026WMIV4/


http://www.amazon.com/Silverhill-Point-Tamper-Proof-Piece/dp/B002P4YCGM/


http://www.amazon.com/5-Point-TORX-Tamper-Proof-Bit-Set/dp/B007SOODHC/ref=pd_cp_hi_1/191-3738474-6837146

[Quartz]

Unfortunately, although a normal torx might be able to drive a normal torx plus, the same can not be said for the center posted security variant. I just tried my T10H and it doesn't fit at all.

Oh well. At least I know what to buy now.

[babola]

Same as mine basically.

So you're good.

You're reading far more into it than required, just go for it and get it done.

Cheers.

[MultiMat]

Yep I got some 5 point screw drivers for my original Wave from Ebay awhile back , they work fine. There is a issue with original Waves , already discussed but here is a bit more info on the topic ;


The early Waves are prone to developing looseness especially in the handles at the 2 plier pivots  LM sorted it with the 'new' Wave.

As per an old post by Kwakster ;

"The only correct way to tighten up older Waves is to replace the plierhead and the plierhead pivots.
Just tightening the 5 pointed Torx screws will leave you with very hard to open blades, without attacking the real problem which is wear.

I've stopped replacing parts on old Waves altogether, when these come in and the customer hasn't stated a certain fondness of the old tool, it gets exchanged for a New Wave."

Kwakster used to be a official Leatherman repairer, my original Wave seems to suffer this looseness due to wear problem.

[babola]

Yep I got some 5 point screw drivers for my original Wave from Ebay awhile back , they work fine. There is a issue with original Waves , already discussed but here is a bit more info on the topic ;


The early Waves are prone to developing looseness especially in the handles at the 2 plier pivots  LM sorted it with the 'new' Wave.

As per an old post by Kwakster ;

"The only correct way to tighten up older Waves is to replace the plierhead and the plierhead pivots.
Just tightening the 5 pointed Torx screws will leave you with very hard to open blades, without attacking the real problem which is wear.

I've stopped replacing parts on old Waves altogether, when these come in and the customer hasn't stated a certain fondness of the old tool, it gets exchanged for a New Wave."

Kwakster used to be a official Leatherman repairer, my original Wave seems to suffer this looseness due to wear problem.

Interesting, indeed.
My OG Wave is in pretty much unused  condition, yet the handle play when closed - is substantial.
When I took my Wave apart I had a look at the pliers pivots, they're basically as-new. But my handles are slightly deformed at the pliers pivot area. Not an easy fix but will try fixing it with a help of my garage vice, failing that I will be going at it with a punch...slowly but steadily, until I fix this frustrating (and totally unnecessary) issue.

Cheers.

[zoidberg]

Yep I got some 5 point screw drivers for my original Wave from Ebay awhile back , they work fine. There is a issue with original Waves , already discussed but here is a bit more info on the topic ;


The early Waves are prone to developing looseness especially in the handles at the 2 plier pivots  LM sorted it with the 'new' Wave.

As per an old post by Kwakster ;

"The only correct way to tighten up older Waves is to replace the plierhead and the plierhead pivots.
Just tightening the 5 pointed Torx screws will leave you with very hard to open blades, without attacking the real problem which is wear.

I've stopped replacing parts on old Waves altogether, when these come in and the customer hasn't stated a certain fondness of the old tool, it gets exchanged for a New Wave."

Kwakster used to be a official Leatherman repairer, my original Wave seems to suffer this looseness due to wear problem.

Interesting, indeed.
My OG Wave is in pretty much unused  condition, yet the handle play when closed - is substantial.
When I took my Wave apart I had a look at the pliers pivots, they're basically as-new. But my handles are slightly deformed at the pliers pivot area. Not an easy fix but will try fixing it with a help of my garage vice, failing that I will be going at it with a punch...slowly but steadily, until I fix this frustrating (and totally unnecessary) issue.

Cheers.

         

[Lichtbote]

Whatever the problem is - just send it back to Leatherman an have them sort it out due to their guarantee. 

Getting the tools and playing with them is fine for modding, but if it´s a warranty thing, let the warranty do it´s job.

[babola]

Whatever the problem is - just send it back to Leatherman an have them sort it out due to their guarantee. 

Getting the tools and playing with them is fine for modding, but if it´s a warranty thing, let the warranty do it´s job.

Not really an option with old OG Wave. They don't fix them anymore, but replace with a current model. I don't care about the current model. 
You may get the OG Wave back if you insist not to be replaced but according to the previous posts on this issue on MTO, they don't fix the root cause of the problem. Neil's is the only one that got "fixed" by LM that I know of. But they used a punch and a hammer