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Several unknown knives - please help identify them

LeaF · 64 · 10585

ua Offline LeaF

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Re: Several unknown knives - please help identify them
Reply #60 on: November 08, 2014, 10:57:51 AM
If you have more, post them. Hopefully officer's knives - I think I've done more than enough speculation into other lines for this thread.




Unfortunatelly, the majority of my questions aren't about officier's knives (but about 58/74mm models :( ).


Only one simple (for you, I hope) question - could you please provide some information about differencies between next models:
  • Standard
  • Spartan
  • Weekender

I thought that main differencies between them are next:
  • Standard never had keyring. Can exists models with and without toothpick\tweezers
  • Standard was produced before Spartan, but during some period, both models were in production
  • Weekender = Spartan + wavy blade

But sometimes I saw different naming of these models (for instance - topic on smartknives.com)



So, could you please explain me - is it possible to definitely say this model is Spartan and that model is Standard or again we have similar situation, when one model can have different names (depend on production / sale date)?

P.S. Also I would like ask you to help me with identifying  knives from my collection.
In my opinion, there are:
1. Spartan, Spartan, Standard
2. Spartan, Spartan, Standard, Weekender
Plz correct me, if I'm wrong. Thanks!
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hr Offline enki_ck

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Re: Several unknown knives - please help identify them
Reply #61 on: November 08, 2014, 01:15:15 PM
Oh, this thread is getting bookmarked for sure. :D

Lots of great info and pics here while we're waiting for the book. ;)


us Offline jazzbass

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Re: Several unknown knives - please help identify them
Reply #62 on: November 08, 2014, 08:23:18 PM
Only one simple (for you, I hope) question - could you please provide some information about differencies between next models:
[/font]
  • Standard
  • Spartan
  • Weekender

I thought that main differencies between them are next:
  • Standard never had keyring. Can exists models with and without toothpick\tweezers
  • Standard was produced before Spartan, but during some period, both models were in production
  • Weekender = Spartan + wavy blade

But sometimes I saw different naming of these models (for instance - topic on smartknives.com)

The list you have above is pretty much what most collectors/eBay sellers/SAK enthusiasts call these models. Spartan = t/t and keyring, Standard has neither, Weekender has a serrated blade. Victorinox has called these models many different names over the years and not always consistently. In the 1950s most versions (keyring/toothpick & tweezers) were called the "Camper". The Standard/Spartan differentiation really comes from the mid 1980s catalogs, about when names were finally getting a lot more consistent. Even then, though, there are some catalogs where the "Spartan" was the version with keyring but without t&t, others where the "Standard" is the same knife (keyring but no t&T).

For the serrated version, the models produced in the mid 1990s were definitely called "The Weekended" (I have a couple NIB).  Victorinox recently re-released this model (at least here in the US) and instead of "Weekender" they called it the "Serrated Spartan" (somewhat unimaginatively). I've seen SmartKnives' website refer to the plain Eco version as a Weekender, and I'd guess that came from some 1980s catalog that used the Weekender name for this knife. Like I've said 1000 times, Victorinox loves to reuse names for different models.

Ultimately, I don't think the names meant much to Victorinox back before the 1980s, so they were somewhat consistent with them, but not really. Local dealers would change names around to suit their current catalog as needed. Victorinox was always much more about the model numbers. In fact, if you think about all possible keyring/t&t combinations for any given knife, you end up with four "different" models: plain, keyring only, t&t only, and t&t/keyring. To the factory, these were models 234, 234U, 234a, and 234aU in the old numbering system and 1.3600, 1.3601, 1.3602, and 1.3603 in the new one (respectively).

Ultimately, there really isn't a *right* answer as to what name to call them. Me personally? I just call them all Spartans. These days with the keyring attachment on the can opener backspring and t&t representing such a negligible increase to the cost of the knife, all Victorinox models simply come with these options - so to see anything currently made without either is unusual. However, in the old days (esp pre-1970), neither of these were true. Putting a bail attachment on a knife or adding t&t added was extra work and thus added a not insignificant amount to the final price of the knife. As a result, it's not unusual to see all two, three or even all four configurations of the same model from the same time period. To try and come up with four different names for each variant of the Spartan, Camper, Climber, Huntsman, etc, based on whether they have a bail/keyring or t&t is an exercise in madness in my opinion. (Likewise, I don't call Climbers w/o keyring "Travelers" or Hunstsmen without t&t "Woodsmen".)


ua Offline LeaF

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Re: Several unknown knives - please help identify them
Reply #63 on: November 11, 2014, 01:08:05 PM
Thanks, jazzbass:cheers:


 

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