Puma-Werk Frogman

[Higgins617]

So I have happened into a pretty cool knife, though by pretty awful circumstances unfortunately. My grandfather's health has deteriorated very quickly and he can't go back home. Today we had to clean out his house a bit, and found the knife laying in the basement.

I know absolutely nothing about it, or the company. Does anyone know what I actually have here besides a cool blade? I know it's missing the handle, but still didn't seem like something to leave sitting there.

Sorry for the bad pictures

[Grant Lamontagne]

Puma is a very highly regarded German knifemaker and there are while websites dedicated to collecting them.  I have an old White Hunter but I really don't know too much more about them than that, and not much about your blade.

I do know that in 1964 Puma started Rockwell trying each and every individual blade, so look for a small divot somewhere on the tang, most likely on the blade side of the guard.  If your knife has one it was made after 1964, if not then it was made before that.

No matter what, that knife is a real keeper.  What a beauty!

Def

Sent from a digital multitool

[Higgins617]

Thanks boss! 

My Grandfather served during Korea, so there's a chance he had acquired it during this time because he really wasn't much of a knife guy. All I've gotten from research is that it was a dive knife. I'll check for the mark when I get back home Tuesday, as I'm sure you can guess that would not really be welcome in a dorm room!

I have to figure out what to do with the handle......

[Grant Lamontagne]

If I were you I would contact one of the more skilled knife guys here on the forum and get something like a nice micarta handle made for it- yes it's modern but it would be an excellent material for a dive knife, and yet can look similar to a nice wood grain when done properly.   I would think that would compliment that knife beautifully.

In fact, if you were ever to decide you wanted to part with it I'd be very interested, although knowing it was your grandfather's I certainly understand if you didn't.

Def

[Higgins617]

If I were you I would contact one of the more skilled knife guys here on the forum and get something like a nice micarta handle made for it- yes it's modern but it would be an excellent material for a dive knife, and yet can look similar to a nice wood grain when done properly.   I would think that would compliment that knife beautifully.

In fact, if you were ever to decide you wanted to part with it I'd be very interested, although knowing it was your grandfather's I certainly understand if you didn't.

Def

If I were to part with it, I wouldn't want anyone other than someone like you to have it, though you're right as I will likely never part with it. 

My uncle is a fantastic wood-worker, so I was thinking of asking his opinion as it will never see water again. The only thing is how to actually get the handle on. The guard swivels allowing you to use it however you gripped it, and the original handle was round but there isn't any way to take the butt-end off to slide a new handle on.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Some interesting info here:

http://www.classicpumaknives.com/?p=487

It looks like the handle was some kind of plastic, resin or phenolic originally.  That should have been some pretty indestructible stuff- I wonder how/when it got lost?

As for attaching a handle, I'd probably do two slabs and pin them together around the tang, but that's just me.

Def

[Grant Lamontagne]

For the fun of it, here's a photo of my father's old Puma next to a Grohmann belt knife.  I actually gave my father a Grohmann identical to the one in the photo, which is why he gave me the Puma.  The Grohmann in the photo was a gift to me from a bunch of forum members a few years ago.



These are two knives I will never let go of, so I understand exactly how you feel. 

Def

[Aloha]

Both your Puma Knives are awesome. 

Higgins 

check the guard for a stamp. 
http://www.knives.com/knives/history/115-puma-knives.html
http://www.pumaknifeman.com/GuideToCollect1.html

[Higgins617]

That was my thought as well, but I don't really know what I'm talking about , thanks a ton for the link that's awesome. I read that they were also issued for the military and was set apart by a matte black handle. But I have no way of knowing since I have none hahahaha. I have some maroon trex material(the decking material) that I was debating, but I think this knife might be too nice to do that.

It really is kind of baffling, it had to have split and came off, but that would take some serious effort to crack that bad. The blade looks like it definitely got used, but that really doesn't bother me. I look forward to putting a nice edge on it, I may actually use it.(hopefully that doesn't make you cringe)

Those are both beautiful blades man, the Grohmann looks like an extremely useful blade, are those easy to come by?

[Higgins617]

Both your Puma Knives are awesome. 

Higgins 

check the guard for a stamp. 
http://www.knives.com/knives/history/115-puma-knives.html
http://www.pumaknifeman.com/GuideToCollect1.html

I'll have my dad check it tomorrow, I wish I knew how interesting it was before I left and I would have snapped a bunch more pictures. Really long smurfy day so my head wasn't in the right place

You guys are the best hahahaha

[Aloha]

Sorry to hear about your Grandpa, keep your head up brother.

[Higgins617]

Sorry to hear about your Grandpa, keep your head up brother.

Thank you buddy, I appreciate that. I found his "yearbook" from when he was in Basic training too, it's pretty cool. Nobody wanted it so I made sure I grabbed it, some of the pictures are just too cool.

I'm really looking forward to restoring this in his honor, and I knew coming to you guys was the best idea to get started!

[Grant Lamontagne]

Grohmann is a knife manufacturer about a hundred kilometers away from me so they are fairly common around here.  I know a few guys in the US and UK have Grohmann knives too so I'd imagine they are fairly readily available most places.   Cold Steel even makes a copy called the Canadian Belt Knife.

Def

Sent from my smurfing hunk of techno sorcery

[Higgins617]

Grohmann is a knife manufacturer about a hundred kilometers away from me so they are fairly common around here.  I know a few guys in the US and UK have Grohmann knives too so I'd imagine they are fairly readily available most places.   Cold Steel even makes a copy called the Canadian Belt Knife.

Def

Sent from my smurfing hunk of techno sorcery

Just looked both up, the Cold Steel is just a weeee bit more affordable . But I know the quality would likely be a stark contrast, I'm going to keep them in mind. Do you use it much?

[Grant Lamontagne]

It is one of my favorite woods knives.   The only drawback to it is the deep pocket sheath that u don't really care for.  Otherwise the handle and blade shape are very intuitive and natural in use.

The Cold Steel version is actually not that bad either.  Admittedly it is somewhat cheaper but the textured plastic handle provides a bit better grip than the polished wood, and is also much more water resistant.   It might not be as classy or traditional as the original but in some ways it is actually better- largely because you don't have to worry about maintaining the wood, and if you lose it somewhere it's less costly to replace.

But, living where I do, and being a proud Canadian I prefer the Grohmann.  It's like having a classic car and the modern version.  The modern one will outperform the original several times over, is more reliable and costs less than the original, but the original has the style and is just so much more of a pleasure to own and use.

Def

Sent from my smurfing hunk of techno sorcery

[JAfromMn]

So I have happened into a pretty cool knife, though by pretty awful circumstances unfortunately. My grandfather's health has deteriorated very quickly and he can't go back home. Today we had to clean out his house a bit, and found the knife laying in the basement.

I know absolutely nothing about it, or the company. Does anyone know what I actually have here besides a cool blade? I know it's missing the handle, but still didn't seem like something to leave sitting there.

Sorry for the bad pictures

A bad way to get such a cool knife.

I bet the handle is around somewhere. 

your granddad might have taken it off to clean it up or something. 

It's definitely worth taking a look for

[Higgins617]

But, living where I do, and being a proud Canadian I prefer the Grohmann.  It's like having a classic car and the modern version.  The modern one will outperform the original several times over, is more reliable and costs less than the original, but the original has the style and is just so much more of a pleasure to own and use.

Def

Sent from my smurfing hunk of techno sorcery

I totally agree with this, I look for the character since 9 times out of 10 it really isn't a make or break situation when I'm using my tools. I want something that makes me happy to use, something interesting. Not necessarily the best tool for the job. Which is another reason I'm excited to find this knife.

[Sparky415]

Higgins

You could try making a handle from self amalgamating tape, it would make the knife useable without damaging the knife and not too hard to remove in the future 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-amalgamating_tape

[Chako]

If I had that, i would make a handle out of leather washers.

[Grant Lamontagne]

The problem with leather washers is that there's no way to get them on. The guard and pommel don't come off so there's no way to thread them on.

Def

Sent from my smurfing hunk of techno sorcery

[Chako]

Oh I thought the guard came off...darn. It would look great with leather washer type handle.

[toolguy]

There's also another problem. If that knife will be used for its intended purpose the leather washers won't hold up to repeated use in water.I do like the idea though.

[Crow]

Guard will come off, with some efford. Only thing is, whom has ability to take it off. Will agree with Chako, leather pommel would look so beautiful. Then again, i would use bircbark to it.

[Higgins617]

When I first saw it, my initial thought was that it came with the leather washer handle and they had rotted off due to it being left in the basement for likely a long time. I'm sure I could get the guard and end off, very doubtful I could get them back on as skillfully.

I'll definitely take a look around the next chance I get, but I have a feeling it's going to come down to making a new one. Thanks for the interest guys!

[Higgins617]

So there is no writing on the guard, which would place it as pre-64 by those web links.

[Aloha]

So there is no writing on the guard, which would place it as pre-64 by those web links.

Interesting.  I'm not sure what type handle material I'd go with.    Micarta, some type of resin, I guess if the idea is to restore it then thats one approach and if getting it sorted to be able to use is another. 

Good luck with whatever you decide. 

[Higgins617]

So there is no writing on the guard, which would place it as pre-64 by those web links.

Interesting.  I'm not sure what type handle material I'd go with.    Micarta, some type of resin, I guess if the idea is to restore it then thats one approach and if getting it sorted to be able to use is another. 

Good luck with whatever you decide.

I'm going to see what my dad's opinion is as well, since it is his dad's knife. You guys got me even more excited about it! I'll be sure to keep you guys updated with what I do.

[Noa Isumi]

a quick bit of google-fu and it looks like the grip was one pc plastic of some sort. Red for civilian market black for military. But we all have seen the "military issue" claim as a market tool, misrepresentation, or flat out guess before.
I would say find a local knife maker or maybe a gunsmith would be willing to try. I say this because the skill and care of finish is a similar prerequisite for both.
 But see if the pommel can be removed and reinstalled without damage, it looks like it was peened or riveted in place. If it can a new 1pc handle in the original style could be turned on a lathe. If it cant a 2ps pinned/screwed handle is going to be your best bet.
Either way I think micarta would be your best option both for the range of color and durability.   
Here's a link to my local knife supply there are dozens of others on the web and around the world if you search I just have this one bookmarked already. But you can have a look at some handle materials to get an idea of your options. They aren't the best on they're color selection in some of the composite and synthetic though, but its a start.
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/index.php?cPath=587_826






also there's 4 of these currently on ebay all with great photos
Seems these are quite valuable when complete and though "damaged" yours would still be a great collectors piece. But no amount of money can separate a family knife. I know, I still have one of my grandfathers folders packed away with what few albums I could save from my family and the dumpster they rented.

Great knife and his albums too those and what they mean to your family history cant be replaced. So good luck on the project and keep your head up thorough it all.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Vintage-FROGMAN-German-Germany-Solingen-PUMA-WERK-Diving-Diver-Knife-/400607654965

[lowtech]

I only skimmed through this very interesting thread.

Puma is still a regarded knifemaker. They are doing high end (hunting and collectors knives mostly) in Germany , but have facilities in Spain (Puma IP) and China (Puma TEC), too where high-volume low price knives are made.

My Dad owns an old Automesser (Car Knife) which ois the wood scaled brother of the whitehunter. It was marketed as a drivers companion Multi tool and is with my dad since his first VW Bug back then.

He had it refurbished at Puma a few years back whe he retired it. They do a really superior service. The knife, battered as it was looks like new, the dings and scratches have been polished out and teh original blade angle and grind has been restored.
We also sent in an old Hoof knife we found on a Flea Market and it was brought back to life.

The service did cost a bit, but it was worth every panny in my opinion. So if you want it as factory original as possible and want to invest in international shipping, I guess you will not be disappointed.

I can look up the contact addresses. And I think I have a leaflet of the Auto esser somewhere on my PC. I need to  borrow my Dad´s knife and take some Pictures.