'Les Stroud' Engage Multitool TEST TO DESTRUCTION!

[Chako]

I agree, the sheath is very nice and well made...the tool on the other hand...          I think we need a few more  .

[Lynn LeFey]

I'm starting to feel a bit like Jothra, in beating this thing, and being shocked both at some of the really terrible aspects AND that it occasionally stands up to abuse. What's the definition of "dichotomy?" 

I think I have an idea for what I'm going to do with the tool today. 

[firiki]

I feel like a voyeur at times

Thanks for taking one for the team, Lynn. Science can be cruel sometimes... you really tested the snot out of that Les Stroud thing...

[Syph007]

This thread is great! I love to see a tool put through its paces.  Im not surprised the file wasnt hardened, its probably make of cutlery steel which cant be heat treated... CHEAP!

[Chako]

You could always practice your knife throwing at a board or something. 

[Lynn LeFey]

This morning's post: The Girl Who Played With Fire
(Warning, images of fire and red meat ahead)

I went out into the harsh wilderness for this next test. By Wilderness, I mean my driveway. But it was cold. I mean, like, I had to wear a coat and everything.

My firestarting kit was well-provisioned, luckily.


Yes, this tool comes with a firesteel. Yes, I've tested it. No, I'm not wasting my time to build a primitive fire with a firesteel. Building the fire wasn't the point. HOWEVER the firesteel did, once again, get dryer lint to catch on fire. So, for all you rugged manly types, there you go. I used a bic lighter and a tea candle, along with dryer lint.

I also, luckily, had the dynamic duo of Engage, and his sidekick, uhh... Sidekick.


Building a 'survival fire', I alternately used the Engage and Sidekick to poke and prod the coals to life. And by survival fire, I mean I built a fire in my Smoky Joe grill, because of city ordinances of no open flames unless they're in a container. I'm HARDCORE!


This was an interesting test. I wasn't interested in testing any particular tool, but using anything available to get the job done. I tried both tools with and without gloves on. I discovered that I could extract most, but not all of the Engage's tools with gloves on. With the Sidekick, those seemingly gimmicky push-up openings actually made getting to the tools with gloves on possible. I wouldn't call it exactly easy, but doable. While both pairs of pliers are springloaded, I felt a need to keep hold of one arm of the tool to keep it from falling in the fire while I manipulated the pieces of wood. And, by the way... using pliers is WAY better than using other sticks to move bits of wood. Both saws were used to cut sticks, and the fish scaler on the Engage was used for general pokey tasks.

Anyway...

The fates truly smiled upon me, as a hunter. I was able to find some wild game. And by wild game, I mean 2 pieces of beef roast I cut into approximately 8oz pieces. I cooked them right on top of the coals, alternately using the Engage and Sidekick to both manipulate the coals and flip the meat.


I need to note here that it really isn't easy to wait for your slow camera to focus while your hand is IN A FIRE!
 

Anyway. I'm hardcore, so on I go.

Oh NO! I dropped my Engage into the fire! Luckily, after I took the picture, Sidekick came to his rescue, laughing his butt off the whole time.


Oh, NO again! Sidekick took a tumble into the flames as well! After a snarky "serves you right" comment, Engage rescued his companion.


Each tool spent about 5 seconds on the coals. We'll take a look at the damage at the end of the post.

But until then, with 'wild game' cooked, whatever shall I use to cut up this meat?


The wilderness was truly truly generous with its bounty today. I found both a soy sauce tree, and Franks Hot Sauce roots to flavor my wild game.

The Sidekick got his turn as meat cutter next.


So how'd they do as meat cutters? About as expected. First thing to note is that I didn't resharpen these from yesterday's edge retention test. I had to half-open the handles of the Engage to get the blade anywhere near the food. Even then, I had to do all the cutting just with the tip. However, it DID cut the meat. It was just kind of awkward. And, I need to say again, this was roast. It had bands of connective tissue. Not the easiest cut. The Sidekick worked like a champ here, better than any steak knife I've ever used.

And, when it was all said and done, how did these tool fair from their firewalk?


There is, literally, not a bit of evidence the Sidekick ever jumped into the fire. The Engage has a few melt marks, but I would call all of the damage cosmetic. Kinda makes him look all bad-@$$ and rugged, doesn't it?

Engage as firebuilding companion: Pass
Engage as a meat cutting tool: Marginal Pass
Engage's resistance to moderate fire exposure: Pass

[comis]

Lynn, great thread.  Maybe I was judgmental to begin with, but I never think too much of the tool when I read all the spec, and hate to find myself right after reading all the tests. 

The one thing that irritate me to no end is the blade edge is facing inwards towards the handles...I have read and seen many experienced outdoorsmen prefer knife without guards so they could choke up the knife for better control, and why oh why would configure the tool this way, while knowing the knife might be one of the most used tool out in the wild?

[Lynn LeFey]

While I agree, this grip is always an option...


One handle of the tool is open and pointed away from the blade end. While this is a partial solution, is is REALLY not great, since it throws the balance of the tool way back and generally just makes the tool feel terrible in hand, even for short duration.

This method is how I cut the steak, and how I did the feathersticks. I don't like it, but it's better than having both handles closed, IMO.

[Mike 56]

Great thread you still need to do the 54R steel core ammo test. ;-)
Mike




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lynn LeFey]

Mike 56: Thank you for your generous offer to send me a Mosin Nagant and steel core ammo. I gladly accept. PM me for the location of my FFL.

I actually have some friends with Mosins. Maybe I'll look into it.

Anyhoo...

I decided to test the Engage (and pal, Sidekick) by filing my nails.





Get it? Get it? See what I did there? I'm so clever.

This is the result of ten seconds of filing with both tools and as much pressure as I could muster. I didn't see any great difference between the double-cut file on the flathead driver and the file on the fish scaler with the Engage. Each removed very little material. The fish scaler at least allowed longer strokes. I have to say, I didn't notice a lot of wearing on the files.

In contrast, even the shorter-than-normal broken file on the Sidekick ate through the nail head pretty convincingly.

Next, testing the files on a softer metal, an altoids tin...



The Engage's file, while it' a bit hard to see, bit pretty deep after ten strokes with heavy pressure.

And the Sidekick...


Because of the wide and stumpy file, the work area was spread out, but not bad results. I used the same 10 strokes with equal pressure, as the Engage. No clear winner here.

Not much else to report with this one.

Ideas for more torture are always appreciated!

Engage for filing soft metal: Pass
Engage for filing iron/steel types of metal: Fail

About what I predicted.

[Etherealicer]

I actually have some friends with Mosins. Maybe I'll look into it.

That would be a great opportunity to improve your video skills

[Lynn LeFey]

The new iPhone 6's have like 240fps video. That might be neat to see in super slow mo. 

I'll see if any of my friends have a iPhone 6.

[Etherealicer]

The new iPhone 6's have like 240fps video. That might be neat to see in super slow mo. 

I'll see if any of my friends have a iPhone 6.

+1 that would be very cool

[Freaver]

Jeez, you leave this thread alone for a few days and then it takes you close to an hour to go through all the posts...

Lynn, great review/torture-test. For what it's worth, I'm once again considering if I should buy a Sidekick/Wingman. After trying quality tools, all at a reasonable price, I really can't figure out why anyone would buy either cheap multitools or multitools produced by companies/figures, that you normally wouldn't associate with tools.

[zoidberg]

Jeez, you leave this thread alone for a few days and then it takes you close to an hour to go through all the posts...

Lynn, great review/torture-test. For what it's worth, I'm once again considering if I should buy a Sidekick/Wingman. After trying quality tools, all at a reasonable price, I really can't figure out why anyone would buy either cheap multitools or multitools produced by companies/figures, that you normally wouldn't associate with tools.

I liked the Wingman, the plier head and tools are okay.
However I found the handles uncomfortable.
For me it was a game killer. YMMV.

[Lynn LeFey]

For what it's worth, I'm once again considering if I should buy a Sidekick/Wingman.

This is me being 100% honest. If you don't need the pocket clip, OHO blade,  and can afford a little extra, get the Rebar. It's an overall better tool.

After trying quality tools, all at a reasonable price, I really can't figure out why anyone would buy either cheap multitools or multitools produced by companies/figures, that you normally wouldn't associate with tools.

Cheapos... If you tend to lose tools, this isn't an entirely terrible option. Otherwise, not. However, I think the big reason people get cheapos is that they just don't know any better about the quality.

MTs from other companies... I'm looking RIGHT AT YOU, Camillus!! In this particular case, and one of the reasons this tool makes me so angry is that it really does seem to be a cheap $10 tool, with $5 worth of extra goodies, that a major knife maker is pushing. It's like they're selling out their reputation to get a few fast bucks. I mean, I'll be honest in saying that I don't know how good/bad Camillus' reputation IS these days, but 'degrading' would be my guess.

[Freaver]

For what it's worth, I'm once again considering if I should buy a Sidekick/Wingman.

This is me being 100% honest. If you don't need the pocket clip, OHO blade,  and can afford a little extra, get the Rebar. It's an overall better tool.

Well, OHO blade isn't exactly a must-have, although I really like having it on my Suspension. The problem with the Rebar, from my perspective, is the inside opening tools. I really like the box-design it's got, but having to open the pliers every time I need a blade or a driver, would just be a major pain in the butt...

After trying quality tools, all at a reasonable price, I really can't figure out why anyone would buy either cheap multitools or multitools produced by companies/figures, that you normally wouldn't associate with tools.

Cheapos... If you tend to lose tools, this isn't an entirely terrible option. Otherwise, not. However, I think the big reason people get cheapos is that they just don't know any better about the quality.

MTs from other companies... I'm looking RIGHT AT YOU, Camillus!! In this particular case, and one of the reasons this tool makes me so angry is that it really does seem to be a cheap $10 tool, with $5 worth of extra goodies, that a major knife maker is pushing. It's like they're selling out their reputation to get a few fast bucks. I mean, I'll be honest in saying that I don't know how good/bad Camillus' reputation IS these days, but 'degrading' would be my guess.

I've actually never heard of Camillus, before they started making this horrendous thing. Has there actually been any examples of a knifemaker making a proper multitool?

I liked the Wingman, the plier head and tools are okay.
However I found the handles uncomfortable.
For me it was a game killer. YMMV.

I might have to fondle one, before buying. Or see if I can find a cheap one on the bay...

[JAfromMn]

Drive over it on the tar with a truck

[Dem]

Has there actually been any examples of a knifemaker making a proper multitool?

SOG does. Though, funny enough, the knives on their MTs aren't anything special. Their big thing is compound leverage plier heads.

Dem

[AimlessWanderer]

Has there actually been any examples of a knifemaker making a proper multitool?

SOG does. Though, funny enough, the knives on their MTs aren't anything special. Their big thing is compound leverage plier heads.

Dem

I would say that SOG used to Their products seem to have suffered a decline over recent times

[Lynn LeFey]

I've actually never heard of Camillus, before they started making this horrendous thing. Has there actually been any examples of a knifemaker making a proper multitool?

Camillus made the U.S. Army Pocket Knife. Essentially the U.S. Version of the Soldier Swiss Army Knife.
But that was the 'old' Camillus, before the company went bankrupt and was bought out.

On to other issues.

Comparables.

I figured I'd do some comparisons with other tools, both in terms of cost, intended function, and actual function.

So. First, cost. I think the Sidekick comparison I've been doing has been very fair as far as tools in the same ballpark for cost, so I won't harp on that for long.

Second, intended function. As a 'survival kit' I think the real competitor is the Gerber Bear Grylls Ultimate Tool Pack. here's a link to 50ft-trad's review of the kit.
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,38925.0.html

That kit costs $50. The Engage costs a tad over $25. So... almost twice as much for the Bear Grylls kit. And you know where every cent of that extra money is going. Fiddling with it today was like getting the most awesome MT ever, after dealing with the Engage. Smaller, lighter, vastly more precise, locking tools, razor sharp blade right out of the package. All the tools work as they're supposed to. The flashlights in both are the same brightness, but the package for the Bear Grylls tool says the light (a AAA model) will run for 14 hours. I am quite certain the one with the Engage will NOT. It runs on 4 tiny watch batteries. Firesteels are VERY close on this. The Bear Grylls one is longer, so maybe easier to throw sparks, but both are very good. While I don't have much against the sheath of the Engage, the Bear Grylls toolset's sheath is really nice, hard plastic and rubber.

Maybe that's not a fair comparison though. So, lets find a tool that is close to a functional equivalent. I'm picking the Walmart Ozark Trail MT. Here's my review.
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,44471.0.html

I pulled it out to test some of the stuff I've done with the Engage, and it seems to perform as well or better every time. That's a $10 tool, and i've noted above that the other add-ons, light and firesteel, should be another $10 to get. That'd then be $5 cheaper than the Engage.

Just some thoughts.

[HarleyXJGuy]

Camillus old slipjoint knives are still sought after by folks who are into umm, old slipjoints. I have a couple that are every bit of 50 years old and still going strong.

No idea about new products. Honestly didn't know they was still around.

[Noa Isumi]

Camillus was an old USA brand of the same quality and was renowned as much as buck and kabar.
Then they went under and we're shipped to China. Just like Schrade and Marbles but Schrade built back to quality and Marbles builds all there old products to the old spec. Unlike the others though Camillus seams to have very low quality standards and try to be forward thinking to the tactical crowd. To the cost of quality and function.

[Lynn LeFey]

Camillus was an old USA brand of the same quality and was renowned as much as buck and kabar.
Then they went under and we're shipped to China. Just like Schrade and Marbles but Schrade built back to quality and Marbles builds all there old products to the old spec. Unlike the others though Camillus seams to have very low quality standards and try to be forward thinking to the tactical crowd. To the cost of quality and function.

I think this sums it up nicely.

[jerseydevil]

One of my favorite knives is a US-made Camillus TL-29.  It's built like a tank, takes a great edge, and is just an all-around solid bit of kit.  The Bear Grylls tool in the kit Lynn mentions is basically a Strata in different clothes.  I'm a fan of the Strata.  I think it's a very underrated tool, and I've used mine pretty hard with no issues whatsoever. 

[Lynn LeFey]

Just thought I'd drop a note here to say that there might not be a lot going on for the next 4 or 5 days in this thread, since it's Thanksgiving weekend.

Second thing, I googled the Camillus Les Stroud multi tool, and there is only ONE review of it I can find. Mine.

And there's only one video about it on youtube. This one. The tool also apparently goes by 'Crusade'.

[Lynn LeFey]

Another test.

What happens when you drive a Hundai Santa Fe over the Engage, and his pal the Sidekick?

http://vid105.photobucket.com/albums/m208/lynnlefey/IMGP1932_zpsmfq8tnxz.mp4

Description of results to follow...

EDIT: Also, yay! my first video of the thread! You can see the tools run over in live action!
EDIT AGAIN!: So much for the 'no posts over the weekend' thing, huh?

[Lynn LeFey]

And the damage?



Essentially nothing to either tool.

The Engage: The screw holding the blade, driver, can opener (and where the scissors used to be) loosened up a little. The tools were floppy, but that screw seems to loosen up if you sneeze at it. There are a few more scuffs on the handle scales.

The Sidekick: I put the tool belt-clip down when it was run over. I figured this would be worst-case, with all the weight on the clip. Nothing. Maybe a VERY slight bend inward of the clip, so minor I might be imagining it. No scuffs on the metal. I can't feel any damage to the protruding screw heads. Nothing.

Engage 'accidentally' being left in the driveway. PASS

[Cupboard]

I tried to break an Asus EEE once by running it over with one of our JCB telehandlers in our yard. That didn't do very much either. You'd have thought that 10t of machine (OK so spread out over 4 wheels) would have made more noticeable damage than it did.

[Lynn LeFey]

Yeah, it was a really unimpressive test, but it SOUNDED like a great idea at the time.

 

I also thought i'd note that the big gash in the yellow part of the lefthand scale in the pic above isn't even from being run over. It's from the screwdriver I used to pry out the bent pin of the plier head earlier.