Quote from: Monrogue on January 28, 2015, 02:29:29 PMIt almost makes a SAK unnecessary though, as it's pretty much a SAK in plier based MT form, with some extras for more versatility. That's true. It was difficult to persuade myself to leave the Swisschamp behind after decades. But the Spirit has most Swisschamp century proven tools (even the corkscrew!), most of them are more functional (longer tools, more robust prying driver, inline philips and awl, all lockable) and it adds a versatile chisel only Victorinox offers. It is flat to fit where Wave/Charge won't. Where the Wave handles dig in your palm, Spirit is like a lady's skin and with the most ergonomic handles. It opens with gravity, something none of the Leathermans does (they are stiff). It has the better spring system, a Swiss specialty. It is built as a Swiss watch, everything fits perfectly in place and clicks reassuringly. Mine stays flat for what this might worth (nothing?). It plays music for you! The wrench or ratchet option completes it and the only problem is the scissors but not for me anymore, since hiraethus solved it with the custom alox he made for me. I can't compare it with the Wave, for me it is in the same market section with Juice. It is much better in every respect and it even fits better in pocket, despite the fact that it is bigger. I don't know if you need it but I know I do and this is the one I EDC. The Swisstool is of the same quality but too big and boxy to be EDCable and ergonomic. With the Spirit they addressed this problem and reached percection. I carried most of my tools and Spirit with Charge TTi and Swisschamp XLT for almost a year. When I had job to do I almost always choose the Spirit instinctively.
It almost makes a SAK unnecessary though, as it's pretty much a SAK in plier based MT form, with some extras for more versatility.
You can use the saw.
Quote from: kkokkolis on January 29, 2015, 11:15:24 AMYou can use the saw.Not on olives
Handle misalignment is a flaw. Granted the tool still works. That flaw is right up there with LMs plier head scratching. Does not affect performance but still a flaw.Blade play seems to on some. My Spirit had it. So did one of my Waves. Easy fixes. Tighten the wave and smack the Spirit with a hammer. No big deal.It all boils down to what you like.Nate
Maybe. Still flaws. Luckily for me, they don't bother me to much. I scratch and twist them more on the first day of use than the the flaws will ever cause. And let's face it. They are tools. Use 'em. Nate
Yeah that makes sense. Good points.OMG! I just agreed with Trad! Is that a flaw? LMOA! Well he did agree with me a couple times. Nate
There are plenty of flaws in the Spirit (handle misalignment,, blunt nosed pliers, blade play, soft steel tools, slippery grip, odd looks) but none of the tools I've played with or researched is perfect. The Spirit is, for me at least, better than the others.
QuoteHandle misalignment is a flaw. Granted the tool still works. That flaw is right up there with LMs plier head scratching. Does not affect performance but still a flaw.Blade play seems to on some. My Spirit had it. So did one of my Waves. Easy fixes. Tighten the wave and smack the Spirit with a hammer. No big deal.It all boils down to what you like.NateA misalignment with the tongs by the handle length is increased proportionally. This offset is caused by the tolerances you can achive with casting of the plier jaws. To after treat the jaws or individually spacer the handles would through them out of market price ballpark.
The rubbing of the pliers doesn't bother me in the slightest. The diamond file rubbing on the scales on wave, charge, surge however ... I was hoping they'd change that with the new surge but alas it's still there.
Quote from: Mextreme on January 29, 2015, 02:02:24 PMQuoteHandle misalignment is a flaw. Granted the tool still works. That flaw is right up there with LMs plier head scratching. Does not affect performance but still a flaw.Blade play seems to on some. My Spirit had it. So did one of my Waves. Easy fixes. Tighten the wave and smack the Spirit with a hammer. No big deal.It all boils down to what you like.NateA misalignment with the tongs by the handle length is increased proportionally. This offset is caused by the tolerances you can achive with casting of the plier jaws. To after treat the jaws or individually spacer the handles would through them out of market price ballpark.I think the misalignment is not a tolerance problem. The cast should not be a problem, they are machined after casting and the machining tolerances are much tighter than casting. All spirits I have checked sit flat on a table when opened (opened to use the pliers) and wobble when closed. If it was a tolerance problem, chances are some of them would wobble when opened too.I think the misalignment is deliberated, but I don't know the reason. In the "Bad Swisstool Spirit?" thread you can find different theories, this is my guess:http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,47468.msg1025724.html#msg1025724
The tolerance problem is how Robert Elsener, quality manager at Victorinox described it in a German forum he is active in. He normally seem very honest. He is also active in the Victorinox collector´s Facebook group, which is english, if you want to ask him more details.:https://www.facebook.com/groups/SAKCollectors/Here is Mr. Elsener:https://www.facebook.com/robert.elsener?fref=tsHe always answers if you send him a p.m.It was also necessary to pair individual handles with plier heads because of corresponiding tolerances to minimize the problem.He also wrote it is not a flaw but within the spec they work and has no importance whatsoever for a user.
Regarding "misalignment" (or "offset design") I believe we are searching for a needle in the straw as we say here (and without a magnet or metal detector). Spirit is a masterpiece, a work of art. Not everyone likes art of course.
I have one on the way
Quote from: eddie1115 on January 30, 2015, 05:48:05 AMI have one on the way Hard to find one on sale.
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