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SwissBianco: "we do not support mod of sak and wont sell that."

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ro Offline Corwyn

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How can you dislike someguy so much and yet drool so hard after an Apocalypse Green Mini Farmer  :-\
Corwyn of Multitool, the First of His name, King of Victorinox, King of Leatherman, Gerber and the First Generation SOG, Lord of the Seven Wrenches, Protector of the Forum, Khal of the Bushes, called Corwyn Toolborn, the Unsharpened, Father of SAKs.


Offline jrp316

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His position on modding has been pretty clear in times past, but actively refusing a sale to someone because of your feelings on mods is bad business IMO. Allowing emotion or personal feelings to get in the way of business is a sure fire way to expedite your 'going out of business' sale. There may be some kind of contractual thing with Victorinox that he has to abide (speculation) which would prevent him from selling product to someone that he knows will modify them, but even that is extremely doubtful. I don't see any reason why Victorinox would give two hoots about what someone does with a knife after they buy it.

The ironic thing about his stance against mods is that, as I recall, he was first noticed by Victorinox because of a Pioneer mod that he made (custom Damascus blade). I wonder if he thinks that Syph's mods might potentially get noticed by Victorinox and edge him out of business?

My advice: reorder it and have it sent to Syph's address, but change the name to NOT Syph007. Alternatively, address it to Michael Oscar Denver at the Ministry of Defense. (MOD)


gb Offline tosh

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I want to comment, but your opening post only shows SwissBianco's signing off!!
Is the title all that was said. I'm reading this on my iphone, so maybe it didn't download properly.
I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.


bg Offline N_N_R

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That's like... purchasing a LM with a sheath and mentioning you're gonna carry it without the sheath in your organizer and LM going like: OOOH NOOOOOOOOOOO, THAT IS TO BE CARRIED IN ITS SHEATH, DON'T YOU DARE USE ANOTHER TYPE OF CARRY, YOU BITCH, WE'RE NOT GONNA GIVE OUR PRECIOUS TOOL TO YOU IF YOU'RE GONNA COMMIT THE CRIME OF CARRYING IT SHEATLESS!! WHAT?! YOU'LL TAKE IT OUT OF THE ORIGINAL BOX?! OH DEAR GOD NO!! :facepalm:


us Offline captain spaulding

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That's like... purchasing a LM with a sheath and mentioning you're gonna carry it without the sheath in your organizer and LM going like: OOOH NOOOOOOOOOOO, THAT IS TO BE CARRIED IN ITS SHEATH, DON'T YOU DARE USE ANOTHER TYPE OF CARRY, YOU BITCH, WE'RE NOT GONNA GIVE OUR PRECIOUS TOOL TO YOU IF YOU'RE GONNA COMMIT THE CRIME OF CARRYING IT SHEATLESS!! WHAT?! YOU'LL TAKE IT OUT OF THE ORIGINAL BOX?! OH DEAR GOD NO!! :facepalm:


Actually its more like buying a tool from Leatherman and telling them you will mod it and they refuse your sale.  :rofl:

I'm with you on this one though. If you are going to shell out the cash you should be able to do whatever you wan't with it. I am going out on a limb here and with the information given would say it is a personal thing with Syph.
I'm the milk man!


bg Offline N_N_R

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Haha, yeah, right, Captain :D I'm just... amazed, lol. Maybe even my LM comparison isn't good, as that guy isn't of such ... magnitude/significance, so to speak, but still he seems quite popular.

At one point I was thinking that he/ they may not support modding in order not to ... support faking knives or something, but this lacks logic.. :think: And, anyway, you BUY something, why would you not do whatever you want with it...

Lots of people buy some items purely for testing and destroying purposes - like some new smartphones, flashlights, wallets, etc. And buying a knife for modding isn't even destroying it. It's .. customizing it. Making it to your own taste. When you buy a PC, are you obliged to use only the apps & software that comes with it?!


us Offline captain spaulding

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Haha, yeah, right, Captain :D I'm just... amazed, lol. Maybe even my LM comparison isn't good, as that guy isn't of such ... magnitude/significance, so to speak, but still he seems quite popular.

At one point I was thinking that he/ they may not support modding in order not to ... support faking knives or something, but this lacks logic.. :think: And, anyway, you BUY something, why would you not do whatever you want with it...

Lots of people buy some items purely for testing and destroying purposes - like some new smartphones, flashlights, wallets, etc. And buying a knife for modding isn't even destroying it. It's .. customizing it. Making it to your own taste. When you buy a PC, are you obliged to use only the apps & software that comes with it?!


This is why I think it is a personal thing. I think we are all on the same page here in saying you should be able to buy and do whatever you want with your product.

On the same note. As a business you do have the legal right to refuse a sale to ANYONE for ANY reason. So while completely bullsmurf it is the dealers right to do so.
I'm the milk man!


us Offline buck

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I want to comment, but your opening post only shows SwissBianco's signing off!!
Is the title all that was said. I'm reading this on my iphone, so maybe it didn't download properly.

That is the entirety of the response.
PM me if you want one of my kidneys for your SOG TiNi multitool.

OK, both my kidneys.


hr Offline Subterranean

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My opinion is that SB, legally, indeed has every right to sell his stuff to who, when and where he wants to. He is an enterpreneur, so he is responsible for all the consequences of his own business decisions, be they good or bad. If he doesn't want to sell a knife, skip him and find someone else who is willing to sell that particular knife.

I do not agree with him about the obligatory "inferiority" and "peril" of the SAK mods, though.
Syph007 and other modders have the right to do with their knives whatever they want. Victorinox, legally, probably has the usual manufacturer's right to officially decline the repair of the knives they find "heavily altered" / "tampered with". So where is the problem?


us Offline GigaHz

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Didn't Rickinfl go through this same crap. His knives will get modded one way or another.


us Offline Luna Knife

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surprise surprise.  more alox elitism rears its ugly head

Because of this attitude I got rid of all my alox except for a cadet my wife gave me 2 christmas ago.  Cellidor and nylon is just better, more honest and more for the working class.


gb Offline tosh

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If I may say this I think swissbianco has a point. Before you all start hating on me, first hear me out.

I know next to nothing about swissbianco, but I'm under the impression he has victorinox's consent to mod the tool layout (or does he buy them in) and change the appearance then sell on in batches.

Is that right??

If so, you can hardly blame the guy for refusing to allow his work to undergo further mods thus undermining his own work. He's probably thinking if someone wants to mod, then go the whole hog and mod the lot from scratch. Why would anyone who's gone to the trouble of designing, ordering, building a batch of knives that are much in demand want to then allow someone else to "tweak" his work and take all the glory.

I'm in no way undermining syph's work - he's a legend here, but how would syph feel if we bought one of his pieces and then forwarded to another modder to tweak.....I'm guessing it would be a kick in the teeth.

Swissbianco, from what I understand does his limited runs in sets (often 50) I'm guessing they are all in demand from people the world over who want "his" pieces - you can't knock the guy for being somewhat negative after you've told him the piece you intend to buy is gonna go under further modification.

In this scenario I totally agree with swissbianco's stance.

As I say I'm taking nothing away from syph and I hope he's not upset by what I've said here.

No hate please, if you object to my reasoning then please elaborate.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 10:00:44 PM by tosh »
I don't claim to know it all, but what I do know is right.


gr Offline kkokkolis

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As a businessman in the US of A, +B is probably all right. As a SAK lover he isn't, since anyone of us would be curious to see what could be made of the basic design. In other words, he isn't a sportsman. I don't like cold blooded bussinessmen, but live and let live as they say. I tolerate them but stick with amateurs and semi-professionals.
PS: if I wouldn't accept someone in my office because he is white, black, brown, travestite, tall, short, fat, thin, SAK moder, SAK fetishist, whatever, I might be legal but my ethics would be very questionable.


us Offline Joe58

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surprise surprise.  more alox elitism rears its ugly head

Because of this attitude I got rid of all my alox except for a cadet my wife gave me 2 christmas ago.  Cellidor and nylon is just better, more honest and more for the working class.

Dang, I need to get out more. I didn't even realize I'm in the upper crust of SAK users cause I prefer alox models. I'll need to be more selective with my pm's.

 :rofl:
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us Offline SAK Guy

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surprise surprise.  more alox elitism rears its ugly head

Because of this attitude I got rid of all my alox except for a cadet my wife gave me 2 christmas ago.  Cellidor and nylon is just better, more honest and more for the working class.

Dang, I need to get out more. I didn't even realize I'm in the upper crust of SAK users cause I prefer alox models. I'll need to be more selective with my pm's.

 :rofl:

History repeats.....

- Robert




Quo Fata Ferunt
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us Offline captain spaulding

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You guys crack me up.   :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



Remember. Pinkies up when you cut something with your alox.

I'm the milk man!


us Offline Aloha

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Are there any +Bs modded?  I'd imagine there has to be some floating around  :think:.
Esse Quam Videri


us Offline wjruth

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Someone correct me - but +B orders 50 knives from the factory in special colors / tool sets. The same as a certain South African dealer and a Danish dealer. Exclusive to his shop. So it's like ordering a custom
Yanko camaro from Chevrolet that had to be ordered from the Yenko dealership. Kinda like Tiffany's silver SAK. You couldn't buy that at your local Target.
Always on the lookout for Blue Alox


us Offline Luna Knife

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surprise surprise.  more alox elitism rears its ugly head

Because of this attitude I got rid of all my alox except for a cadet my wife gave me 2 christmas ago.  Cellidor and nylon is just better, more honest and more for the working class.

Dang, I need to get out more. I didn't even realize I'm in the upper crust of SAK users cause I prefer alox models. I'll need to be more selective with my pm's.

 :rofl:

History repeats.....

(Image removed from quote.)

I hope Vic NEVER makes a 111mm in alox.  As the 111mm is more powerful of a knife, but still has toothpick and tweezers. 

I do hope, however,  they make a 111mm Vic with a pen in the nylon scales.
vinruk3.jpg
* vinruk3.jpg (Filesize: 163.84 KB)


us Offline Luna Knife

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they lock
vinruk.jpg
* vinruk.jpg (Filesize: 137.36 KB)


mx Offline ebarberena

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surprise surprise.  more alox elitism rears its ugly head

Because of this attitude I got rid of all my alox except for a cadet my wife gave me 2 christmas ago.  Cellidor and nylon is just better, more honest and more for the working class.

Dang, I need to get out more. I didn't even realize I'm in the upper crust of SAK users cause I prefer alox models. I'll need to be more selective with my pm's.

 :rofl:

History repeats.....

(Image removed from quote.)

I hope Vic NEVER makes a 111mm in alox.  As the 111mm is more powerful of a knife, but still has toothpick and tweezers. 

I do hope, however,  they make a 111mm Vic with a pen in the nylon scales.

Oh, but they do. On the Hoffmann/Garant 84 6000.
Garant84600Front.JPG
* Garant84600Front.JPG (Filesize: 292.59 KB)
Garant84600Back.JPG
* Garant84600Back.JPG (Filesize: 373.98 KB)


us Offline Luna Knife

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surprise surprise.  more alox elitism rears its ugly head

Because of this attitude I got rid of all my alox except for a cadet my wife gave me 2 christmas ago.  Cellidor and nylon is just better, more honest and more for the working class.

Dang, I need to get out more. I didn't even realize I'm in the upper crust of SAK users cause I prefer alox models. I'll need to be more selective with my pm's.

 :rofl:

History repeats.....

(Image removed from quote.)

I hope Vic NEVER makes a 111mm in alox.  As the 111mm is more powerful of a knife, but still has toothpick and tweezers. 

I do hope, however,  they make a 111mm Vic with a pen in the nylon scales.

Oh, but they do. On the Hoffmann/Garant 84 6000.

That my friends, is a working class knife


us Offline tjfarrington2000

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surprise surprise.  more alox elitism rears its ugly head

Because of this attitude I got rid of all my alox except for a cadet my wife gave me 2 christmas ago.  Cellidor and nylon is just better, more honest and more for the working class.

Dang, I need to get out more. I didn't even realize I'm in the upper crust of SAK users cause I prefer alox models. I'll need to be more selective with my pm's.

 :rofl:

History repeats.....

(Image removed from quote.)

I hope Vic NEVER makes a 111mm in alox.  As the 111mm is more powerful of a knife, but still has toothpick and tweezers. 

I do hope, however,  they make a 111mm Vic with a pen in the nylon scales.

Oh, but they do. On the Hoffmann/Garant 84 6000.
ooh I like that a lot more than the regular OHT


Sent from my iPhone using A box of monkeys on a treadmill and a quantum leap


cs Offline MWDP

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I have several issues with Roger, first of them being his attitude towards his buyers. What he makes in terms of profit is none of my concern, but we have seen a range of models from Seitz Kreuznach lately who sell their alox models for 50% of Roger's price - these are also 100-piece runs.

I understand he hates modders and doesn't want anyone messing with his alox SAKs (which is weird since they come from Victorinox actually). What's weirder is, if I got the full story right, Roger started out as a modder himself...

I understand I will get hate for this, but I don't like giving him money at all. He has what I need and that's the only reason I have to buy... Last time I said this I got a PM from Alexei saying how Roger is actually a nice guy.
My custom SAK scale thread: http://bit.ly/1bBIzzD

Always on the lookout for smooth alox 84mm advertising Victorinox models - Bantam, Cadet, Cadet II, Voyageur! Message me if you have something


pt Offline pfrsantos

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If I may say this I think swissbianco has a point. Before you all start hating on me, first hear me out.

I know next to nothing about swissbianco, but I'm under the impression he has victorinox's consent to mod the tool layout (or does he buy them in) and change the appearance then sell on in batches.

Is that right??

If so, you can hardly blame the guy for refusing to allow his work to undergo further mods thus undermining his own work. He's probably thinking if someone wants to mod, then go the whole hog and mod the lot from scratch. Why would anyone who's gone to the trouble of designing, ordering, building a batch of knives that are much in demand want to then allow someone else to "tweak" his work and take all the glory.

I'm in no way undermining syph's work - he's a legend here, but how would syph feel if we bought one of his pieces and then forwarded to another modder to tweak.....I'm guessing it would be a kick in the teeth.

Swissbianco, from what I understand does his limited runs in sets (often 50) I'm guessing they are all in demand from people the world over who want "his" pieces - you can't knock the guy for being somewhat negative after you've told him the piece you intend to buy is gonna go under further modification.

In this scenario I totally agree with swissbianco's stance.

As I say I'm taking nothing away from syph and I hope he's not upset by what I've said here.

No hate please, if you object to my reasoning then please elaborate.

Since a picture is worth a thousand words...
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gr Offline kkokkolis

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Tosh is a nice guy and optophile, he has nothing in common with that short and annoying guy who thinks he is an actor (even worse, some people think he is an actor too).


it Offline basilio

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I don't like alox and I don't collect them.
In fact, I don't have any interest on these kind of knives.
Even so, I was aware, reading here and there on the forum, about these kind of "feelings" on modders by this SwissBianco.
So the original idea to ask him to ship the knife directly into the hands of a modder was a bad one, if I can say.
However, I don't see where the problem is.
Just have a friend buying the knife for you and then do with it whatever you want.


 

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