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Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #840 on: June 19, 2019, 12:43:11 PM


no Offline Vidar

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #841 on: June 19, 2019, 02:18:21 PM
That helps how?  :think:

Camoflage and warmth for hunting on post. It has to be a color anyway, so why not take white for that extra option?
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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #842 on: June 19, 2019, 02:48:23 PM
Regarding fishing, the two fish I saw caught this season were Lake Trout.

When the lake freezes these will go to deep water (50 feet or more). 




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Offline downt

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #843 on: June 20, 2019, 03:48:38 AM
When it freezes over they can do ice fishing and no longer be limited to the shoreline. Snow also makes it easier to track prey, and the animals that don't change fur color will be easier to spot against the white. Some will also be attracted to remaining open water holes. So the cold isn't all bad. Should be an interesting season.

Wonder if any of the contestants brought a white sleeping bag?

which guy is that? the only one I noticed took a bow drill instead of a ferrorod, so that gained him nothing at all. In fact, it's a pita big mistake. I can see not taking a ferrorod if you're just going to fire-roll a chunk of your bandnna to get your first fire, bed  your coals, get a primitive shelter over your fire and probably never need to start another fire "from scratch". Once you have ashes and charred punk wood, as well as pine resin, feathersticks and shredded duct tape, kept dry in you tarp and tape watertight bag,  you can start fires with  any hard rock and any carbon steel tool.


Offline downt

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #844 on: June 20, 2019, 03:52:57 AM
I see no need to call them dummies or question their intelligence. They made it onto the show which means they already surpassed the wast majority of applicants, and a big part of that will be due to their abilities and experience. You simply can not cast any random guy and drop them off alone in the wilderness - let alone in the arctic.

Sure they do mistakes, have accidents and go about their stuff in different ways. They all try to adapt strategies based on their particular skillset, but there is enough happenstance to kill off even the best of plans - which force them out of their comfort zone and expose their weaker areas.

I might do better than some at a few tasks, but I also know that most of those people would easily outlast me overall - and that is what counts. The technical survival skills need to be at a certain level, but I think the real challenge and deciding factors in the show are more at a mental level.


ge 13 sounds about 10 years late..  :pok:  :D

they apparently take anyone that's female, transgender or a minority, cause they get so few such applicants, I guess? anyway, if they are your "expert instructors" God help you if you ever actually need to do this sort of thing, because they can't.


Offline downt

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #845 on: June 20, 2019, 04:09:07 AM


The traditional stuff and tactics has NEVER worked. They've all just starved. Every last one of them has lost at least an average of half a lb per day. That's  1500 calories that they fell short of getting, EVERY day. The only one of the 10 things that most people  take, that I agree with, is the snarewire. Everything else is less than optimal. Even the fishing kit. I'd take it, but I'd take  25 BIG hooks, and use the fire, a couple of hard stones, and the modified Crunch tool to convert them into 2 hooks each, with barbs. Then I'd use the Crunch and the snare wire to convert them into 16 treblehooks and set at least half of them for mammals and birds. There's no need of the axe, saw and belt knife, when the Crunch and the Cold steel shovel (modified to have 8" of saw edge) can do more than those 3 items and it saves you a pick. You dont need the paracord or the gillnet, if you take the hammock. There's far more cordage there, and it can make you 400 sq ft of 3" mesh netting, on top of the cordage you need for lashings. The gillnet is restricted to 60 sq ft in size, so it's not worth taking. It's also 1.5" mesh and a gillnet cant catch fish that are bigger than the mesh size. Seines and weirs CAN.  Weirs can be baited, gillnets cannot. Netting can be used to trap waterfowl, crows, magpies, pigeons  and mammals.
Why take the 2 qt pot limit, when you can have a 5 qt skillet with lid?  No rule says that you can't, you know. Why take a bow, when you can have the greater versatility and handiness of a  slingbow?  I'd take the 12x12 tarp and make netting out of it.  I'd skip the sleeping bag to do so, too.  There's plenty of debris that you can use for insulation and they are given lots of heavy winter clothing, too. I'd tke the duct tape, the 3 lb block of salt.  Dont take stuff that other stuff can do the job of (ie, the Crunch and shovel replace the saw, belt knife and axe) and dont take stuff you can make on site (sleeping bag, gillnet, paracord, fire-starter). The rations are just 2 lbs each, so they will give you only 1 more day of staying power each. They used to be 5 lbs and that was marginal. So they are no longer worth using a pick in order to take.

I'd set netting-wrapped box traps for small game and birds (other than the above ground weir type net for baited-in ducks, using boiled then fried cambium as bait)  Reserve the snare wire for the treblehooks set for predators (coons, possums, etc) for making the treblehooks, and for braiding into cables that can strangle a deer or caribou, or hook a moose, wolf or bear  to a drag-log.  Cordage will not suffice for such things. Get into ketosis 2 weeks before you go and pig out your last couple of meals. Getting fat for the show is cheating, no different than smuggling in a knife or ferrorod.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 04:18:16 AM by downt »


Offline downt

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #846 on: June 20, 2019, 04:22:09 AM
I hope Dave doesn't fall from that stand. And next time I want to see Larry win against the wind as he did against the mice

Larry never won vs the mice. He didn't even know to make a wicker basket, about the size and shape of a 5 gallon bucket, line it with a hunk of tarp, fill it half full of water, split a 1.5" sapling, about 3 ft long, rough up the flats and set them as ramps for the mice to get up to the bucket's edge. Set a roller stick across the top center of the bucket, bait a 3" sq, 1/2" thick centered on the roller log, with roasted cambium and fish or bird guts,  Mice try to reach the bait, fall in and drown. Later, the bucket  holds your wastes when you hole up down in the dugout shelter, covering each "deposit" with loose earth.


Offline downt

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #847 on: June 20, 2019, 04:26:38 AM
Our expectations my have been set higher for this group since thay have been there and down that.

Now, I find it interesting that with river having fish, most are able to catch what they need to minimize hunger.  See a bird, oh! drop it with my bow and arrow. Doing the self video, we miss the actual action, so yes boring.   Yet interesting as to who is having current success, and that what works for one, does not for another.

I founds Dave's commit regarding, he who does not have a fire IN the shelter is missing out, like he knows of Larry's campsite (?), or Sam's.  Brett and Randy both have inside fire pits.

Cod weather, freezing nights and days plus snow will turn up the intensity for the last 5 for sure.


they are missing out all right, on not waking up dead from CO poisoning, or with everything on fire, including their hair, or having lung cancer or emphysema in a few years. You ca heat big rocks on gravity fed Dakota fire pits, put them under your raised wooden bed and be plenty warm enough.  In fact, you can be warm enough without the rocks or the sleeping bag, if you just pile up enough debris to lie upon and put more in a mesh bag and pull it over you like a blanket.

PS: I love the fall colors and scenery shown by the high cameras or drones.


Offline downt

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #848 on: June 20, 2019, 04:48:10 AM
here's stuff you need to know

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=long+log+fire
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rolling+log+mouse+trap

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dakota+fire+pit
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+make+a+debris+bag+for+warmth
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=emergency+winter+survival

ashed tinder works great
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ashed+tinder


A very few hours of googling and yt search found all of this. If you use a few coats of iodine, a few days apart each, on the outside of your shovel. That will heavily rust it in short order. Then, when  you are dropped off, you convert your gaiters and some tape into a dry bag for your fire kit. Scrape the rust off of the shovel into a bit of your bandanna,and seal it with a bit of tape. You'll be able to start any fires with that rust, fire rolling strips of bandanna. or using flint and steel into rusted tinder, or charred punk wood,  Here's something else that will back you up nicely. when it comes to fire.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=making+a+raised+wooden+bed+for+bushcraft
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CAPPDO_enUS827&ei=nvIKXdHYNMjwtAWb6bj4Dw&q=making+an+earth+oven+yt+survival+lily&oq=making+an+earth+oven+yt+survival+lily&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i10i299l3.16664.19749..20650...0.0..0.131.1500.3j11......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j33i22i29i30j33i160j33i299.B2Nyobo2J10
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CAPPDO_enUS827&ei=6fIKXc6DAtCQsAWBur2IAw&q=kebab+food+over+wood+fire+you+tube+bushcraft&oq=kebab+food+over+wood+fire+you+tube+bushcraft&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i160.31153.34794..36747...0.0..0.220.1220.3j6j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j33i299j33i10i299j33i10i160.7Ng9fbasqTw

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=eating+cambium
here's what stone axes did for milllenia. The Cold steel shovel with saw edge is 10x better, when you have 2 file blades on the Crunch, for sharpening the saw teeth.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=survival+technology++stone+adze


no Offline Vidar

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #849 on: June 20, 2019, 05:44:28 AM
they apparently take anyone that's female, transgender or a minority, cause they get so few such applicants, I guess? anyway, if they are your "expert instructors" God help you if you ever actually need to do this sort of thing, because they can't.

If they have so few applicants, and you think they are all so hopeless, then you should have no problem signing up and winning the show next season.

As for me I hope to never have to do anything like that. My ambitions are limited to staying alive until resqued if smurf do happen when I'm out and about. Mind you, in bad conditions that can be challenging enough for even a short while.

As for expert advice I wouldn't look to neither reality shows or youtube. We have locals who live outside on a daily basis, and who are fully capable of living off the land all year round. That is based on traditional ways of life evolved over the thousands of years that humans has been living in these areas. I'd rather put my trust in that well of knowledge and experience over fancy modern gear and theories.
"Simple is hard"
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mc Offline Gerhard Gerber

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #850 on: June 20, 2019, 10:25:21 AM
. We have locals who live outside on a daily basis, and who are fully capable of living off the land all year round. That is based on traditional ways of life evolved over the thousands of years that humans has been living in these areas.
:iagree:

Our Bushmen don't have the skills for cold weather, but they are just one group of people in the world that would laugh at these "challenges"
 
In my country there are people in the rural areas that live very much as their ancestors did.  I've seen guys paddling a mokoro on the Zambezi river, middle of nowhere heading home, and let me tell you they are machines, you see rippling muscles under those black skins.  They've been at it all day and I can't even stay upright in one of those "boats"
They need a hook and 2m of fishing line to fill a boat with fish......we go out in motor boats loaded with all the newest gear and blank......



They wont be arrowing any lynxes, from what I've seen of the way they walk on the show. Like cattle, clunk clunk.


From my limited experience I can only agree, question is are they filming when they have a real opportunity....?
If getting the shot. film wise, counts more than filling the belly........does not compute  :think:


no Offline Vidar

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #851 on: June 20, 2019, 10:57:22 AM
Our Bushmen don't have the skills for cold weather, but they are just one group of people in the world that would laugh at these "challenges"

Yes indeed. If the challenge was on their home turf there wouldn't really be a competition. Then again, part of the competition is about putting the contestants into new environments and see how they adapt. One of the reasons I find many participants impressive is that they do.


I've seen guys paddling a mokoro on the Zambezi river

I had to google those :) Those mokoros are not unlike our river boats up here. I guess that makes sense - river maneuvering probably have fairly similar challenges everywhere, so design evolution gets similar too.


They need a hook and 2m of fishing line to fill a boat with fish......we go out in motor boats loaded with all the newest gear and blank......

Over here that is one of the ways to judge people you meet outdoors. If you're out and about and meet someone walking around with little gear, half normal clothes, and maybe a simple plastic carry bag or two then chances are the person is quite comfortable outdoors and knows the region well.
"Simple is hard"
"Hard is hard too"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).


mc Offline Gerhard Gerber

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #852 on: June 20, 2019, 11:54:51 AM
I had to google those :) Those mokoros are not unlike our river boats up here. I guess that makes sense - river maneuvering probably have fairly similar challenges everywhere, so design evolution gets similar too.

That depends what your search brought up.....
The mokoros that tourists get to experience are fiberglass copies, the real thing is another beast...... :facepalm:

They're made from one mildly hollowed out tree trunk, upright is not their preferred orientation, they leak, and they are heavier than you could imagine!

I got on one in the backwater in front of the lodge where I worked, went 3-4m and very nervously came back.......constant balancing act.


mc Offline Gerhard Gerber

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #853 on: June 20, 2019, 11:59:55 AM

Over here that is one of the ways to judge people you meet outdoors. If you're out and about and meet someone walking around with little gear, half normal clothes, and maybe a simple plastic carry bag or two then chances are the person is quite comfortable outdoors and knows the region well.

This might be of interest to some.....

The guys cut a few reeds, the hook and line and tied to the thick end of the reed and they rest the reed on the water - your all-natural bio-degradable fishing rod is also a float/bite indicator.
They tend to have 4 or 5 "rods" resting on the side of the boat right infront of each, and I have seen big fish take the whole rig before they can grab it.  8)


no Offline Vidar

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #854 on: June 20, 2019, 12:03:35 PM
They're made from one mildly hollowed out tree trunk, upright is not their preferred orientation, they leak, and they are heavier than you could imagine!

I got on one in the backwater in front of the lodge where I worked, went 3-4m and very nervously came back.......constant balancing act.

 :D My mistake - I got some long wooden boat from the search. River boats here have a preference for staying upright - leakage and weight varies.

Boat and balancings act seems like a combination better avoided. Sounds like a wise decision!  :D :cheers:
"Simple is hard"
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no Offline Vidar

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #855 on: June 20, 2019, 12:08:21 PM
This might be of interest to some.....

The guys cut a few reeds, the hook and line and tied to the thick end of the reed and they rest the reed on the water - your all-natural bio-degradable fishing rod is also a float/bite indicator.
They tend to have 4 or 5 "rods" resting on the side of the boat right infront of each, and I have seen big fish take the whole rig before they can grab it.  8)

Interesting using it the other way around. I fear our wood would just sink instead of indicate, but worth a try just for fun.

Over here natural branches was sometimes used by people who fished without a license where that was required. The punishment for getting caught was typically confiscation of the fishing gear..  :P
"Simple is hard"
"Hard is hard too"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).


us Offline Aloha

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #856 on: June 20, 2019, 03:43:12 PM
I caught the first two episodes.  I am no hunter but I always think boiling the meat of critters would be best to kill whatever lurks within? 

Good point about his heart meds and the possibility of stomach woes. 

I spied a Leatherman BO used by one of the females  :tu:

I guess the show is keeping with the cold climate theme.  I was kinda hoping for a different climate.  Poor guy with the busted leg.  He was just commenting how walking on that surface was like walking on plates.  Did anyone else see the lady cut herself before it happened?  I was cringing while watching her use her knife.  I am glad it wasn't as bad as it could have been.  Glad she's still in the competition. 

I'm no fisherman but I'd sure as heck be fishing my arse off.  I wonder if having the bow and arrows some contestants feel pressures to hunt with them?  Be really bad arsery to bring home big game. 
Esse Quam Videri


us Offline LoopCutter

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #857 on: June 20, 2019, 05:19:53 PM
Yes, she did not appear comfortable with that knife.  I had told my wife about 30 seconds before, “she is going to cut her hand”




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If I start and end the day above ground, it is a good day!

Hope yours is as good!

A SMART man always knows what to say!
   A WISE man knows whether or not to say it!!!


mc Offline Gerhard Gerber

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #858 on: June 25, 2019, 08:56:49 AM
 :pok:

So........the guy in the burnt area got more food that the rest put together  :think:

 :rofl:


de Offline Shuya

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #859 on: June 25, 2019, 09:45:08 AM
Even the fishing kit. I'd take it, but I'd take  25 BIG hooks, and use the fire, a couple of hard stones, and the modified Crunch tool to convert them into 2 hooks each, with barbs. Then I'd use the Crunch and the snare wire to convert them into 16 treblehooks and set at least half of them for mammals and birds.

You wont, you lack metalurgical knowledge, what you describe will simply ruin your limited number of hooks.
Try it at home. Those thin hooks will just burn away and you will be left with scaled, soft wire at best, not usable for anthing.



hr Offline styx

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #860 on: June 25, 2019, 02:12:36 PM
Yes, she did not appear comfortable with that knife.  I had told my wife about 30 seconds before, “she is going to cut her hand”




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a lot of people buy new better gear once they pass selection. that might be it.
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us Offline Aloha

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #861 on: June 25, 2019, 03:29:19 PM
A couple of MTs ( what appear to be Leatherman ), I believe I've seen a Wave BO and Surge.  Shame about the cut but really glad she didn't hurt herself badly.  Moras are sharp and they cut deep, maybe she didn't realize how well it would cut?  I was more concerned she was cutting towards herself.  Just glad she was able to clean it and continue on. 
Esse Quam Videri


no Offline Vidar

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #862 on: June 25, 2019, 06:53:59 PM
:pok:

So........the guy in the burnt area got more food that the rest put together  :think:

 :rofl:

He didn't seem so unhappy about his spot anymore  :D

Still, I think putting someone in a different ecosystem (although in the same area) is tilting the tables a bit - for better and or worse.
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no Offline Vidar

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #863 on: June 25, 2019, 07:01:59 PM
A couple of MTs ( what appear to be Leatherman ), I believe I've seen a Wave BO and Surge.

What would a perfect multi-tool for Alone be like?

I figure you'll have a proper knife, axe and maybe a big saw anyway. So from the top of my head maybe a smaller knife for carving, a sharpening file, ferrorod (backup or main), small saw for small stuff, awl with needle head, tweezer, magnifying glass, tooth pick, scissor, pliers with cutters and precise grip, chisel/ flat screwdriver, full round PH screwdriver for arguing with tough knots and the like. Signal colors so it is easier to find.
"Simple is hard"
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us Offline LoopCutter

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #864 on: June 25, 2019, 08:57:23 PM
From the web site, it list a Leatherman has the multitool.
I thought I observed the Surge tool locks and on one participant a large Velcro nylon sheath.

Previous seasons the Surge appeared to be MT of choice, including a couple that where modded. 


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If I start and end the day above ground, it is a good day!

Hope yours is as good!

A SMART man always knows what to say!
   A WISE man knows whether or not to say it!!!


mc Offline Gerhard Gerber

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #865 on: June 26, 2019, 10:52:41 AM
You wont, you lack metalurgical knowledge, what you describe will simply ruin your limited number of hooks.
Try it at home. Those thin hooks will just burn away and you will be left with scaled, soft wire at best, not usable for anthing.
Agreed  :cheers:

Also, I know a treble hook has it's time and place, but in general a normal single hook has better hooking characteristics.

I would want some circle hooks in my kit....


 


no Offline Vidar

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #866 on: June 26, 2019, 12:11:46 PM
Downt have many ideas, links and theories. Having ideas is good. To know that they are actually working ideas that will indeed improve upon todays proven practices they need to be tried and tested in real life conditions. Some might work, some will not, while others might provoke new experiments and evolve towards some new alternative ways. Alone in the wilderness with next to nothing is not the place or time to do fairly exotic experiments though.

I got rubbed a bit the wrong way when these got glorified over normal actually working practices and the attitude of how silly all those doing things the normal way are. I would be quite surprised if the participants on Alone haven't tried out quite a bit, and found what (kind of) works for them.

That said, I do appreciate learning about new concepts. I'll pickup that fire roll concept Downt mentioned, and I'll actually try it at some point. Before going off anywhere far though :) :cheers:

« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 12:39:53 PM by Vidar »
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mc Offline Gerhard Gerber

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #867 on: June 27, 2019, 11:19:23 AM

That said, I do appreciate learning about new concepts. I'll pickup that fire roll concept Downt mentioned, and I'll actually try it at some point. Before going off anywhere far though :) :cheers:

There's a youtube channel I subscribe to....wish I could remember the guy's name.......that is probably the best collection of alternative fire making methods I've seen.

That said, on most of these shows the people that counted in friction fire regretted it....

I would only want a multitool if I knew I'd have resources to make lures, and fish that would take them.

I forge on a weekly basis.  I have, with myself and another person blowing on a BBQ fire (local hardwood) gotten a piece of a broken file up to critical temp, red hot basically, but you need a few degrees more to forge, never-mind forge welding.  Sure you can quench it and get it hard, but then it needs to be tempered or it would break if you look at it wrong.




no Offline Vidar

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #868 on: June 27, 2019, 12:54:33 PM
There's a youtube channel I subscribe to....wish I could remember the guy's name.......that is probably the best collection of alternative fire making methods I've seen.

That said, on most of these shows the people that counted in friction fire regretted it....

I wouldn't depend on it, but interesting to know for its own sake. If I actually want a fire I'm boring enough to bring a lighter or matches. :dunno:

One day I have some spare time I plan to make the mother of all fire pistons just for the heck of it. I like the concept, but the traditional design is a bit hit and miss. A fire piston that fire every time would be interesting. That would be rather expensive and on the heavy side, but maybe an interesting personal side project.

I would only want a multitool if I knew I'd have resources to make lures, and fish that would take them.

I think I would have brought one just for the options it brings for making or modifying stuff in general. Tarp, sleeping bag, snares, fishing line, pot, knife, axe, ferro rod - that is 8. The last two would be between saw, multi-tool, gill net and salt. Ok, I'm not sure about the multi-tool either. :)

I forge on a weekly basis.  I have, with myself and another person blowing on a BBQ fire (local hardwood) gotten a piece of a broken file up to critical temp, red hot basically, but you need a few degrees more to forge, never-mind forge welding.  Sure you can quench it and get it hard, but then it needs to be tempered or it would break if you look at it wrong.

I know that if I were to try forging fish hooks out in the wild it would likely end up with me having lots of holes in my fingers, some holes maybe closed off by stuck fish hooks, and hands which are burnt and beaten after trying to forge without tongs and using rocks instead of hammers. :facepalm: Maybe I just didn't get the concept right.
"Simple is hard"
"Hard is hard too"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).


us Offline Alan K.

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Re: Anyone watch the tv show Alone? [SPOILERS!]
Reply #869 on: June 27, 2019, 08:12:12 PM
I also said out loud, before the fact, that the woman was going to cut herself and I was sad to see that I was correct. I don't remember anyone's names, but I like the black guy so far.  Although, he did get very emotional after killing the squirrel. I suspect it really wasn't the squirrel that made him emotional.  It is hard to be away from one's family.


 

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