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Flippers much?

PTRSAK · 36 · 2217

au Offline PTRSAK

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Flippers much?
on: June 30, 2015, 04:55:36 AM
just a quick skim across the bay netted the following "entrepreneurs" all hoping to double (or more) their money...

It's amazing how so many "Rare NIB Collectable" Alox knives suddenly popped up on the market...

I pity the fools who are paying up to and over a hundred dollars for a knife that is still available for $40 retail.  :facepalm:

I'm so tempted to send a buyer's question to each of these asking if they are the CS knives and see if any of them have the guts to 'fess up.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Alox-Pioneer-Orange/141703323447?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Blue-Alox-Farmer-91mm-3-1-2-Swiss-Army-Knife-New-w-Box-Free-Shipping/151724154544?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Blue-Alox-Farmer-Swiss-Army-Knife-Rare-NIB/252006446540?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Copper-Alox-Farmer-Swiss-Army-Knife-Rare-NIB/252006438677?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Alox-Pioneer-Farmer-Copper/141703325954?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Copper-Alox-Farmer-NIB/221811102285?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Copper-Alox-Farmer-NIB/221806140635?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Orange-Alox-Pioneer/221811101473?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Orange-Alox-Pioneer-Swiss-Army-Knife-Rare-NIB/151728172403?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Farmer-Dark-Green-Alox-NIB-Rare-Swiss-Army-Knife/252006447629?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Copper-Alox-Farmer-Swiss-Army-Knife-Rare-NIB/252006438677?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Copper-Alox-Farmer-Swiss-Army-Knife-NIB-Victorinox/191609617931?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Olive-Green-Alox-Farmer-Swiss-Army-Knife-New-NIB-Victorinox/191609617405?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Swiss-army-cadet-alox-orange-rare/252008559933?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Swiss-army-pioneer-alox-orange-scales-rare/252008556837?




us Offline jazzbass

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #1 on: June 30, 2015, 04:57:11 AM
I'm starting to think that no one actually bought these knives to collect, much less use and that all of them have appeared for sale on eBay since going on sale.


us Offline Smaug

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #2 on: June 30, 2015, 05:01:06 AM
Yeah, that disappoints me too. They're just hoping that with ebay's traffic level, the odd sucker will come along who'll pay it.
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us Offline captain spaulding

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #3 on: June 30, 2015, 05:41:59 AM
It really is sad. Especially since people who really want them will be out of luck one CS is out because the flippers bought them all to make money. I do not know why CS did not limit these to 1-2 per customer.
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us Offline SAK Guy

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #4 on: June 30, 2015, 05:52:56 AM
I get angry when I think about it.  Some of them have even used CS pics in the past. The second run last time was limited....
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gb Offline VoetSak

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #5 on: June 30, 2015, 03:41:37 PM
Its engineered scarcity. Very interesting to me from a psychological standpoint. There is no additional inherent value to coloured alox or limited run items but there is a ready market to gobble them up.

It makes one chortle. I am a newbie but it seems to me that all Swiss Bianco etc have to do to stay in business is to keep thinking up new colours.

Maybe I am alone here but I would far rather pay OTT for something that is rare that occurred naturally (think Scientist etc) than for another limited item that a company thought up just to whip collectors into a frenzy. It feels like market manipulation.

Then obviously there is this other tier that you refer to. They appear to be a logical response to the first tier.

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us Offline wjruth

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #6 on: June 30, 2015, 04:03:08 PM
I'm not sure how I feel on this. Clearly those of us in this hobby that are on these boards knew about the release and picked up the knives. Those who don't use social media may find limited outlets to buy.
I picked up one each of the farmers, but they went into my case as soon as they arrived. Secondary markets and flippers seem wrong but two months ago we were paying $140 for a blue farmer and that is what many of these ebay sellers are basing these sales on.
If CS took 30 knives and sold them on on ebay for $50, the flippers couldn't make a profit. But controlling the secondary market is not their job.
Always on the lookout for Blue Alox


us Offline toolguy

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #7 on: June 30, 2015, 04:13:35 PM
just a quick skim across the bay netted the following "entrepreneurs" all hoping to double (or more) their money...

It's amazing how so many "Rare NIB Collectable" Alox knives suddenly popped up on the market...

I pity the fools who are paying up to and over a hundred dollars for a knife that is still available for $40 retail.  :facepalm:

I'm so tempted to send a buyer's question to each of these asking if they are the CS knives and see if any of them have the guts to 'fess up.

I can understand your dismay but we live in a nation,USA, that owes its success to capitalism.I have no issues with these people.Having said that you'll notice that their asking prices are not being met in many cases.The market will take care of these want-to-be entrepreneurs .

You don't need to ask if they purchased from CS.Since CS were the exclusive distributors,the answer would be yes.

The retail is $54.50 and the discounted selling price is $40.90.

I also agree the hyperbole used to claim the rarity of these knives is disingenuous at best.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."  **Edmund Burke**

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scotland Offline gardenvalley

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #8 on: June 30, 2015, 05:10:29 PM
Capitalism is the system which facilitates us all being here in the first place.

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Long after we`ve made our contribution"
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us Offline powernoodle

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #9 on: June 30, 2015, 05:10:37 PM
I'm 100% okay with flipping SAKs, knives or anything else.  Though I'm a hoarder and not a flipper, when I buy a SAK or whatever, it becomes mine.  I can flip it, hoard it, use it or whatever else that floats my boat.  That's because its mine.  Bought with my money.  That I earned.  And if I want a limited edition SAK color or Spyderco sprint run, its up to me to be diligent, to watch the interweb and to buy one when they are available.  If a flipper gets to it before I do, that's my fault.  Flipping is neither inherently good or evil.  Its benign.  Each of us can either participate or not.

Consider too that the vendor is also flipping SAKs and knives.  They bought them from a maker or intermediary, marked up price up and sold them. 

There is an inherent sense of unfairness when a hurricane destroys a region and sellers of food, petrol and generators jack up the prices just because the populace is desperate.  But that's not what going on with SAKs.  Uniquely colored SAKs are toys.  There is no life-and-death going on here.  There is nothing unfair about not getting an orange SAK.

I'm totally on board with what Mr. Voet says about artificial scarcity too.  Its a big - and successful - marketing ploy with Busse fixed blades and many other makers.  Same deal with Spyderco dealer exclusives and sprint runs.  And it can either be fun or frustrating, depending on how much effort you want to put into it.  By paying attention and being diligent, anyone can grab a blue Farmer or whatever when they are released.  If one does not want to put in the effort to get a limited edition item before they disappear, that's not the flipper's fault.  Just my view of the world.


us Offline sawman

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #10 on: June 30, 2015, 05:12:09 PM
As I've said many times:

IMHO, they should not be producing 'collectibles'. Make enough for everyone and slap an affordable price on them  :twak:
SAW


us Offline WoodsDuck

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #11 on: June 30, 2015, 05:53:01 PM
This is why the "rarest" SAK in my collection is my Outrider, which is only very slightly uncommon because it has to be imported to the US now. Unless I missed it coming back into regular distribution here.
Luckily there are so many varieties currently in production, or at least still reasonably priced on the secondary market, that I can't even afford to get all of them in the foreseeable future.


us Offline toolguy

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #12 on: June 30, 2015, 06:00:37 PM
This is why the "rarest" SAK in my collection is my Outrider, which is only very slightly uncommon because it has to be imported to the US now. Unless I missed it coming back into regular distribution here.
Luckily there are so many varieties currently in production, or at least still reasonably priced on the secondary market, that I can't even afford to get all of them in the foreseeable future.

If you're referring to the Victorinox 111 Outrider,I don't believe it's rare.

All Vic's have to be imported into the U.S.


https://duckduckgo.com/?q=victorinox+outrider&ia=products
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."  **Edmund Burke**

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."    **Benjamin Franklin**


us Offline WoodsDuck

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #13 on: June 30, 2015, 06:09:11 PM
This is why the "rarest" SAK in my collection is my Outrider, which is only very slightly uncommon because it has to be imported to the US now. Unless I missed it coming back into regular distribution here.
Luckily there are so many varieties currently in production, or at least still reasonably priced on the secondary market, that I can't even afford to get all of them in the foreseeable future.

If you're referring to the Victorinox 111 Outrider,I don't believe it's rare.

All Vic's have to be imported into the U.S.


https://duckduckgo.com/?q=victorinox+outrider&ia=products
There's a reason it doesn't come up in a search on the official US Victorinox site;

http://www.swissarmy.com/us/content/search?defaultvalue=Enter+Search+Term&searchterm=outrider

Some models are not distributed, by Victorinox, to the US or other countries. Additionally, there's a reason I put quotes around the word "rarest," as I was highlighting the fact that the tool is not actually hard to get. Though I doubt they're showing up at any non-specialized stores, like next to the Huntsman and Spartan at your local WalMart, given the fact that they're not in regular distribution here.


us Offline toolguy

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #14 on: June 30, 2015, 06:20:01 PM
The website to which you linked is notorious for being out of date and not well maintained.

The link I provided illustrates the availability of this knife.

Placing quotes around a word doesn't mean anything,unless an explanation is provided.This is the internet,we can't see your facial expression or hear the inflection of your voice,so what you write is what we understand.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."  **Edmund Burke**

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."    **Benjamin Franklin**


us Offline WoodsDuck

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #15 on: June 30, 2015, 06:35:23 PM
Is it really that outdated? I wasn't aware of this. Well, none of my SAKs are rare, so I suppose it doesn't really change the intent of my post, haha.


Offline RedRamage

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #16 on: June 30, 2015, 06:40:15 PM
I remember when I was working on my 32 color cellidor collection... there were many colors that were rare, but they were rare because they were only produced for a little while a long time ago.

I agree that the new alox color explosion seems to be semi-artificial.  It's like these people discovered people were collecting and they could sell vast quantities of multiple colors if they just kept pumping them out.  I don't have a problem with the sellers or flippers per se... but it also doesn't feel like I'm "collection" a set anymore cause I know that there will be new colors of minor variations every few months.

It's not unlike the Beanie Baby crazy.  My wife and I were flippers during that.  It was sort of our hobby.  We'd visiting stores, see what they had, buy some if we thought we get flip 'em, then off to ebay.  But two things happened that made us quit:

First, it became a chore instead of a fun hobby.  We started calling store to find out when shipments were due... we started following website and TY news reports to find out when new items were being released.  All in all it just because... not fun anymore.  So quit.  Which was fortunate because....

Second, the Beanie Baby craze died a quick death.  I attribute a lot of that too the fact that TY went crazy with the number of new items that came out.... and most were just variations on the same theme.  The Teddy Bears in particular were ridiculous.  Birthday Bear, Xmas Bear, Valintina Bear, Valintino Bear, Birthday Bear #2, American Flag Bear, British Flag Bear, American Flag Bear #2, Stars American Flag Bear... and that is probably about 1% or less of the number of Teddy Bear versions they had.

So... the cautionary tale for resellers and flippers: The Alox "color" market maybe nearing that cliff.  It could easily get to the point that no one bothers trying to collect them all anymore because it's impossible with flippers snapping them up and new colors seemingly every other month.

(On a side note: Yeah I do have to sorta turn in my man card for being a Beanie Baby flipper, but like I said, it was a fun hobby for a while.  We made enough from flipping to buy my wife a sewing machines and still have a some left over.  When we quit we had like a 50-60 low value commons left over.  We donated most of them to a missionary group that was working on a children's hospital, so we did do some good deeds with the left overs.)


us Offline Marius

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #17 on: June 30, 2015, 09:23:35 PM
Guys, this is the free market. I will not sell mine but I have nothing against the people who do. Whom am I to critique them? If the market allows it so be it. Au contraire, I am seeing this development as interesting from the perspective that even when CuttleryShoppe and others make an effort to get great SAKs to us at below market prices the market tries to correct that. If the resold SAKs will really be overpriced they won't sell, period, forcing the sellers to lower prices. I too dislike high prices for SAKs and I hate the concept of buying just to resell - to flip. But I realize there is nothing wrong with this in a free market. Let them be "entrepreneurs", if they need and can make income from this good for them.

 :cheers:


us Offline gustophersmob

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #18 on: July 01, 2015, 12:40:19 AM
I'm 100% okay with flipping SAKs, knives or anything else.  Though I'm a hoarder and not a flipper, when I buy a SAK or whatever, it becomes mine.  I can flip it, hoard it, use it or whatever else that floats my boat.  That's because its mine.  Bought with my money.  That I earned.  And if I want a limited edition SAK color or Spyderco sprint run, its up to me to be diligent, to watch the interweb and to buy one when they are available.  If a flipper gets to it before I do, that's my fault.  Flipping is neither inherently good or evil.  Its benign.  Each of us can either participate or not.

Consider too that the vendor is also flipping SAKs and knives.  They bought them from a maker or intermediary, marked up price up and sold them. 

There is an inherent sense of unfairness when a hurricane destroys a region and sellers of food, petrol and generators jack up the prices just because the populace is desperate.  But that's not what going on with SAKs.  Uniquely colored SAKs are toys.  There is no life-and-death going on here.  There is nothing unfair about not getting an orange SAK.

I'm totally on board with what Mr. Voet says about artificial scarcity too.  Its an big - and successful - marketing ploy with Busse fixed blades and many other makers.  Same deal with Spyderco dealer exclusives and sprint runs.  And it can either be fun or frustrating, depending on how much effort you want to put into it.  By paying attention and being diligent, anyone can grab a blue Farmer or whatever when they are released.  If one does not want to put in the effort to get a limited edition item before they disappear, that's not the flipper's fault.  Just my view of the world.

I agree with this except the part about people raising prices in an emergency.

Now, granted, some people are not exactly caring and there are some who will jack prices just because people are desperate, but I doubt this is what is happening in most cases.

It really is simple supply and demand. During a disaster, demand for the items you list rises while supply falls due to infrastructure disruption. This will cause prices to rise to a level such that the supply and demand equalize so there is no scarcity at that new price as well as no surplus.

For example, when sandy struck New England, it was made illegal to raise prices on gasoline. Therefore, the first people who got to the filling station got all they could while those later had none. If prices were allowed to rise naturally, it would have been cost prohibitive for the early birds to take it all, which would result in a much more even distribution. That's not price gouging. It is very simple market forces.

Additionally, many areas were without fuel for a long time due to infrastructure disruptions, but since the fuel prices were held artificially low, there was no financial reason for fuel companies to got to the great lengths to reinvest in that infrastructure and get fuel there fast. It became a secondary priority.
If the trees blew down the wind and no one was around, would the alphabet song really go backwards?


us Offline BerkshireHunter

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #19 on: July 01, 2015, 02:32:22 AM
I thought this would be a thread about knives that had a flipper assist.  :rofl:

I'm a believer in markets, no such thing as price gouging. Buying a knife for 6X the price because it's a different color may not offer much value or added utility, but as long as somebody agrees to pay it, whatever. It's all about supply and demand, and Victorinox just didn't make as many colored models.

But I do like to compare some of the colored alox prices to the Dutch Tulip mania. A market can be irrational longer than you can stay solvent, but they usually correct to fair value.

And allowing prices to go up during scarcity does make product more available to more people, price fixing causes shortage and misallocation of resources.


us Offline Luna Knife

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #20 on: July 01, 2015, 03:30:46 AM
This is why the "rarest" SAK in my collection is my Outrider, which is only very slightly uncommon because it has to be imported to the US now. Unless I missed it coming back into regular distribution here.
Luckily there are so many varieties currently in production, or at least still reasonably priced on the secondary market, that I can't even afford to get all of them in the foreseeable future.

The outrider is a blue collar hard working knife.  The Colored Alox is mostly for hipsters who drink only the best "craft" beer instead of Tecate or Bud Light


us Offline SAK Guy

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #21 on: July 01, 2015, 03:51:30 AM
This is why the "rarest" SAK in my collection is my Outrider, which is only very slightly uncommon because it has to be imported to the US now. Unless I missed it coming back into regular distribution here.
Luckily there are so many varieties currently in production, or at least still reasonably priced on the secondary market, that I can't even afford to get all of them in the foreseeable future.

The outrider is a blue collar hard working knife.  The Colored Alox is mostly for hipsters who drink only the best "craft" beer instead of Tecate or Bud Light

Wow!   :popcorn: 
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us Offline mrynnr

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #22 on: July 01, 2015, 04:33:34 AM
:cheers: :drink:


us Offline captain spaulding

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #23 on: July 01, 2015, 04:35:15 AM
This is why the "rarest" SAK in my collection is my Outrider, which is only very slightly uncommon because it has to be imported to the US now. Unless I missed it coming back into regular distribution here.
Luckily there are so many varieties currently in production, or at least still reasonably priced on the secondary market, that I can't even afford to get all of them in the foreseeable future.

The outrider is a blue collar hard working knife.  The Colored Alox is mostly for hipsters who drink only the best "craft" beer instead of Tecate or Bud Light



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Offline DragonOne

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #24 on: July 01, 2015, 05:30:44 AM
I would love to find a blue farmer for 40.00


us Offline mrynnr

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #25 on: July 01, 2015, 06:03:31 AM
CS had some a little bit ago


us Offline SAK Guy

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #26 on: July 01, 2015, 06:50:14 AM
- Robert




Quo Fata Ferunt
"It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues." - Ten Bears


au Offline DazMechanical

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #27 on: July 01, 2015, 11:26:16 AM
This is why the "rarest" SAK in my collection is my Outrider, which is only very slightly uncommon because it has to be imported to the US now. Unless I missed it coming back into regular distribution here.
Luckily there are so many varieties currently in production, or at least still reasonably priced on the secondary market, that I can't even afford to get all of them in the foreseeable future.

The outrider is a blue collar hard working knife.  The Colored Alox is mostly for hipsters who drink only the best "craft" beer instead of Tecate or Bud Light

:twak: What makes you think only hipsters collect coloured Alox? And why can't the average guy drink fancy beer? :drink:
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 11:27:27 AM by DazMechanical »
darren


us Offline strmliner

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #28 on: July 02, 2015, 02:49:30 AM
As I've said many times:

IMHO, they should not be producing 'collectibles'. Make enough for everyone and slap an affordable price on them  :twak:


Yes!  :tu:
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au Offline PTRSAK

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Re: Flippers much?
Reply #29 on: July 02, 2015, 04:39:14 AM
Wow, stirred up quiet a little debate on socio-economics there didn't I?

Personally I think flippers are leeches. They add nothing and expect to get paid for it.
No problem with someone who (for example) buys 20 Blue Farmers, file-works the blades and THEN doubles or triples the price to resell them...  value added, most people don't have the tools and/or ability to file an intricate pattern into the spine of a knife blade and some would be happy to pay for a hour or two of a craftsman's time to have a unique piece.

As far as the original topic goes, I guess my main point was surprise at the level of gall of the flippers in asking these prices when the item is still available retail from the very outlet they purchased from.

At the end of the day I guess it's a good example of caveat emptor.


 

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