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Air rifle help need please.

gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Air rifle help need please.
on: July 06, 2015, 09:21:07 AM
I've decided I'd like to get another air rifle and am currently selling some slingshots to fund it :)

Now my requirements are a little unusual in that first and foremost it needs to be very quiet! My flat doesn't have a garden but does have a long corridor of about 10 metres and cranky neighbours downstairs and to the left ::) :D

I have a shortlist of rifles I'd like, all of which are nice an low powered but would be open to others if there available in the UK and ago I d the £100 mark.

In first place is the Crosman Backpacker. Always wanted one as a kid and did have a 1377 which was a fantastic gun but there not available in the UK it seems although I have emailed a couple of Crosman stockists.

Second up is the Baikal MP61 as I've always had a soft spot for Russian engineering and its supposed to be extremely accurate too according to all the reviews I've read :)

Lastly Gamos Whisper X which they say is the quietest rifle ever!?!?

Thanks in advance guys :)

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scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #1 on: July 06, 2015, 12:13:15 PM
I'd not go for the Gamo for a couple of reasons:

1) It's a Gamo. ;)  Seriously, this is one I've shot a couple of times and it was pretty "meh".  Horrible trigger IIRC.  I'll also say that while I don't remember it as loud I don't remember thinking it was particularly quiet either.

2) It's a Sub-12ft/lb rifle. That makes it pretty hot for 10m shooting.  For that I'd definitely be looking at a 6ft/lb rifle/pistol.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 12:15:35 PM by Gareth »
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scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #2 on: July 06, 2015, 12:30:28 PM
I've not shot a pump Crosman in years but, as you said, it's a classic.  Lot of time pumping rather than shooting though.

The Bikal isn't one I'd even heard of until now, but it does look like fun. :D
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00 Offline kirk13

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #3 on: July 06, 2015, 12:31:24 PM
Yep,Gareth is right on every count there.

I'd recommend you go Chinese on this. Have a look at the SMK website. B2 is ideal. Ignore what the performance figures are,they struggle to 5ft/lb out of the box. Ideal low power plinker. The XS15 is a posher version of the B2 with a conventional barrel lock-up.

If you can find one,the old Biathalon Trainer is worth a look.

As to moderators on spring guns...the bulk of the noise comes from the breach...mechanical noise if you will. Muzzle crack isn't a big deal. With CO2 or PCP,then you will need a mod of some description.

If CO2 is an option,the Crossman 1077 is a ten shot semi auto,and there's the classic Ratchatcher too :pok:
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scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #4 on: July 06, 2015, 01:00:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhjJ_52tNOw

This video mentions the Baikal as being measured at 80db.
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scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #5 on: July 06, 2015, 01:24:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE3Rk0o5OC4

Mike, I'm sure you've found these videos yourself, but I'm having fun finding out about a rifle I've not come across before. :)  This chap measures the sound at 85db. 
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ca Offline Chako

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #6 on: July 06, 2015, 01:37:58 PM
I have a Crosman Backpacker, and I can tell you it is a very nice shooter. The pumping can be a let down...however, I have found that at 3 pumps, the pistol is fairly quiet. It does get louder and faster at the 6 pump stage...but nothing like any CO2 air pistol or rifle. Those are much louder than the Backpacker.

Not sure if you have seen this thread...

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,60550.0.html

If you do go for the Crosman Backpacker, try to get the Doomsday Bug out kit.  :pok:

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,54077.msg936072.html#msg936072
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 01:41:25 PM by Chako »
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gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #7 on: July 06, 2015, 05:34:09 PM
Thanks for the replies guys :)

Thanks for ruling out the Gamo, I seem to recall John knocking them, but my old Delta never had any problems but I'd take your word(s) over my ride tints any day :D

The Backpackers been ruled out as it seems like its unavailable in the UK and despite really wanting one, it would cost far too much to import one sadly :(

80 odd decibels I don't think is too loud but I could be mistaken and I really don't want to piss of my neighbors if I can help it.

I'll have a look at SMK again. I really wish they still did the old Biathlon. That was a cracking rifle :)

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cy Offline dks

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #8 on: July 06, 2015, 06:56:15 PM


My CO2 crossman sounds similar to hammering a nail, when shooting a wooden target..
A lot will depend on how soft the target is.
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gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #9 on: July 06, 2015, 07:02:15 PM
Wow that's louder than I thought :(

No I'm swerving away from co2 as it just raises the running costs by a lot :(

Leftfield suggestion, but what about air soft spring rifles???

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00 Offline kirk13

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #10 on: July 06, 2015, 07:07:15 PM
Wow that's louder than I thought :(

No I'm swerving away from co2 as it just raises the running costs by a lot :(

Leftfield suggestion, but what about air soft spring rifles???

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gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #11 on: July 06, 2015, 07:10:08 PM
So they've not changed then :D

I'm not chasing power but accuracy and adjustable sights would be a must :)

On a side note £100 doesn't buy much :o

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00 Offline kirk13

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #12 on: July 06, 2015, 07:15:35 PM
So they've not changed then :D

I'm not chasing power but accuracy and adjustable sights would be a must :)

On a side note £100 doesn't buy much :o

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Mike,have a look on Gunstar. Hundred quid might get you a second hand Meteor,which wouldn't be bad.

Flip side,if we can sort out a means of meeting,I've still got stuff here with your name on it :pok:
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gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #13 on: July 06, 2015, 07:20:31 PM
Oh I remember mate :D

I'm still thinking the Crosman 1377 is the way to go as I can effectively moderate the sound/power easily by just using fewer pumps :)

 I still think a conventional air rifle will be too noisy ???

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gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #14 on: July 07, 2015, 08:39:30 AM
I've been looking on YouTube and I never realized how modable the 1377 is :o

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mc Offline Gerhard Gerber

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #15 on: July 07, 2015, 11:13:04 AM

If you do go for the Crosman Backpacker, try to get the Doomsday Bug out kit.  :pok:

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,54077.msg936072.html#msg936072
OOOOHHHHHHH......I want that so bad I can taste it!  :ahhh

Unfortunately that would fill 1 of the slots on my gun license, we only get to have 3  :(
.......if you're willing to jump some hoops and wait 5 months minimum......  >:(


gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #16 on: July 07, 2015, 01:45:34 PM
And I thought our laws were strict! :o

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us Offline Mike 56

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #17 on: July 07, 2015, 01:49:52 PM
The 1377 is .177 cal and the backpacker is 22 cal. You can order barrels, stock quick disconnects and lots of parts from Crosmen. They are pretty cheap. I will post pix of my backpacker and my PC77 in a little while. What you use for a back stop makes a big difference I use duct seal inside my pellet trap it like a sticky clay is very quiet and stops pellets well.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 01:55:45 PM by Mike 56 »
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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #18 on: July 07, 2015, 01:51:14 PM
Nice one thanks :)

I am pretty much sold on getting another 1377 as I let my one go for a song ::)

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ca Offline Chako

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #19 on: July 07, 2015, 03:10:31 PM
Ouch man, and I thought Canadian gun laws were tough.

Mike, I have nothing better to do, so I can look around town today and see what I can come up for you. If I find something, I can get it for you and ship it off to you gratis. Does that sound ok? Would I be allowed to ship a pellet gun to the UK?

EDIT: I can give you my UMAREX Buckmark URX .177 pistol, and a Daisy Grizzly that can shoot BB and .177 pellets. Both are fairly quiet. The Pistol is a break action springer, and the rifle is a single pump. Both are not that powerful, meaning you gain in the quiet department.

Just wondering if I can ship them to you. What are the UK laws like for something like this. I have done some cursory Googling and am shocked at some of the laws I have read in regards to air guns...but couldn't find anything about a Canadian shipping them to someone in the UK as a gift? I don't want to break any laws, etc.  :tu:
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 04:55:50 PM by Chako »
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gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #20 on: July 07, 2015, 04:58:40 PM
Bloody hell I couldn't ask you to do that mate, that's a beyond generous offer! I'm slightly lost for words at this gesture mate :tu:

I really can't ask you to put yourself out for me like that though :cheers:

I'm really not sure on the law concerning air weapons UK as if you by one in the UK you have to do it face to face or through a 3rd party dealer. I'm sure in all likelihood customs would just destroy them ???

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ca Offline Chako

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #21 on: July 07, 2015, 05:02:18 PM
Can you ask them? I have them here collecting dust and all. I bought the pistol in hopes of training with it until I got the real thing. Now that I have the .22LR version, I will not be using this...and I have enough stuff cluttering my gun room thank you. The Daisy Grizzly is a kids gun that I bought at a steal of a price at the local Tractor Supply store. I would rather see it get some usage than just sitting in my gun cabinet. You talked about quiet...and this is whisper quiet as its only a single pump. Both shoot to only in the 300-400 f/s range...so they shouldn't be illegal due to Joules or something or other.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 05:03:22 PM by Chako »
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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #22 on: July 07, 2015, 05:07:26 PM
Well thanks very much mate I really am grateful to you :tu:

I'll see what I can find out :)

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ca Offline Chako

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #23 on: July 07, 2015, 05:25:01 PM
Please do. Here is a photo of what I am prepared to send you if I can.

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #24 on: July 07, 2015, 05:28:17 PM
I've just shot you a pm mate. It seems I was right, the grumpy buggers at customs will just destroy them out of hand :(

Amazing offer though mate!!!

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ca Offline Chako

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #25 on: July 07, 2015, 05:31:25 PM
 :(
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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #26 on: July 07, 2015, 05:46:44 PM
Indeed :(

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scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #27 on: July 07, 2015, 06:41:49 PM
If it were within the EU I don't think it should have been a problem (as long as it's UK legal of course), but outside of the EU it's probably different. :-\ 

Dan definitely deserves full marks for the offer though. :cheers:
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gb Offline Mike, Lord of the Spammers!

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #28 on: July 07, 2015, 06:46:53 PM
Well I don't think there's any chance of it slipping through customs as they seem to go through everything now!

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ca Offline Chako

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Re: Air rifle help need please.
Reply #29 on: July 09, 2015, 02:18:24 PM
Well that was quick. I got a response, but it left me feeling a bit confused as they didn't say I could or could not. I gather it was more I could not...but I sure wish they just said a  yay or a nay.

Here is the email response I got Mike

Dear Mr Sauve
 
Thank you for your email enquiry dated 7 July 2015 regarding the importation of airguns from Canada.
 
Airguns
 
Most airguns satisfy the definition of a “firearm” in The Firearms Act 1968. Even so, if such an air weapon is classified as a low-powered air weapon (muzzle energy below 6 foot lbs for a pistol or 12 foot lbs for any other type) it does not require any licence to import, acquire or possess in the UK .
 
Conversely high powered air weapons (where muzzle energy exceeds the specified limits) are subject to Department of Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS) import licensing and domestic police firearms licensing controls. Additionally any “self contained gas cartridge gun” where the air/gas power source and the projectile are self-contained within a cartridge, irrespective of muzzle energy, are generally prohibited.
 
If a licence is required, it should be obtained before the goods are imported. Further advice can be obtained by calling the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills on + 44 (0)1642 364 333 or by e-mail at enquiries.ilb@bis.gsi.gov.uk
 
Airsoft, Softair and BB Guns
 
Most Airsoft, Softair and BB guns constitute a realistic imitation firearm. A realistic imitation firearm is defined in section 38 of the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 as an imitation firearm which has an appearance that is so realistic as to make it indistinguishable, for all practical purposes, from a real firearm and is neither a de-activated firearm nor itself an antique.
 
The Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 creates an offence to manufacture, import or sell a realistic imitation firearm. Several defences do however exist whereby it can be shown that the manufacture, sale or import was for purposes of making the realistic imitation firearm available for:
 
A museum or gallery
Theatrical performances and rehearsals of such performances
The production of films and television programmes
The organisation and holding of historical re-enactments
Crown servants
 
The Act provides that “museum or gallery” includes institutions which are open to the public and whose purpose includes the preservation, display and interpretation of material of historical, artistic or scientific interest.
 
“Historical re-enactment” is defined as “any presentation or other event held for the purpose of re-enacting an event from the past or of illustrating conduct from a particular time or period in the past”.
 
In addition two new defences have been created through the powers of the Violent Crime Reduction Act Regulations 2007. The first of these concerns Airsoft Skirmishing defined as a “permitted activity” and the second is for purposes of display at arms fairs, defined by the new regulations as “permitted events”.
 
Manufacturers, importers and vendors must be able to show that their conduct is for purpose of making realistic imitation firearms available for the reasons specified in one of the above defences. Failure to show and support such a defence will result in the manufacture, import or sale being considered unlawful and may invoke the penalties and/or prosecution by the relevant agency in accordance with the provisions of the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006.
 
If the airguns are sent, and are then intercepted by UK border controls as restricted or prohibited items, the importer would be notified accordingly.
 
I hope this is of assistance to you.
 
 
I must emphasise that the advice given is based on the information you supplied. If the nature of the transaction changes in technical detail, or the relevant details provided were incomplete or incorrect, we will not be bound by this ruling.
 
Yours sincerely
 
Karen Cook (Mrs)
Officer
 
HM Revenue & Customs
Customs, International Trade & Excise
Website: www.hmrc.gov.uk/contactus


So I gather sending air guns to the UK might not be the best thing to do. With that said, I am not prepared to let this go. Please give me your shipping address and I shall send you one of my MT.O care packages instead. It feels like a good time to RAK someone.
A little Leatherman information.

Leatherman series articles


 

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