What are your views on Walter Palmer - Part II

[tosh]

This will get locked no doubt.
But I wanted to reply to Toms (JerseyDevil) post.

Personally I think it's a gross abuse of power that a moderator who is vocally Pro-Hunting takes the decision to lock a thread due to his own bias thoughts.

Not only did it openly display  breath taking arrogance but also high lighted the narrow mindedness or those who participate in such "Sports" for the belief that they somehow assume they have the right to decide what's expendable. The fact that many of those who do hunt for sport will no doubt be church goers is frankly mind boggling. I'm not in the slightest religious but even I know the difference between moral and immoral.

I have nothing further to add - please close the thread.

I apologise unreservedly to Grant and all the members here. But being who and what I am, I cannot and will not be bullied into silence.

Apologies to all.
 

[jerseydevil]

The arrogance you displayed in suggesting that hunters be harmed is also amazing. One more comment like  THAT, and you will be banned immediately, period.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I am personally taking a look at this and contacting members and Mods privately.  If anyone has anything they would like to add, please contact me privately about it.

Def

[Lichtbote]

I probably will do, Grant - now i first have to go to work.

Had already a bad night due to being upset with JDs arrogant action and abuse of his powers (again shown here in the above post), let´s see if some hours more will calm me down.

[shark_za]

Don't try impose your worldview on others.
Thinking it's ok to threaten.people because they hunt is ridiculous and in fact criminal. Killing animals is not.
Things are a little different in other cultures, some eat the cheese, some eat the dog, some kill the animal.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Corwyn]

+1 lock this thread
+1000 lock this topic

Too many people are taking it personally... just "Bygones" and move over... we're all grown ups...

[Chako]

Yes, I think opening this up after it was locked...was a mistake.

[tosh]

I think the waters are getting a little muddy here.

No one is criticising "Hunters" par se. Everyone acknowledges that hunting puts food on the table and protects livelihoods and in extreme conditions regains balance (cull).

I think we all agree with that.

The problem here is these so-called "Trophy Hunters" who have now been exposed to the worlds media and are justifiably receiving the wrath of people the world over.

It is they who have tarred the honest and reputable reputations of what we all formerly classed as "Hunting".

Emotions are running very high as has been demonstrated by this and the previous thread.

I hope my point comes across as clear and concise as it was intended.

[David]

Tosh why can't you stop adding fuel to the fire you started? Your agenda was obvious from the start.

[gardenvalley]

Can everyone please take a deep breath and calm down? We don`t want anymore announce-a-flounce threads.

[lister]

Ok, I am now calling this the Dandeliongate. (You know as int the dent-de-lion, meaning "lion's tooth" and Watergate) 

[firiki]

Don't try impose your worldview on others.

100% agree. This works both ways, though.

[shark_za]

I think the waters are getting a little muddy here.

Hi there, all fair but when you start putting in emotional language that could translate to any killing (cull, abattoir, eating meat) then it loses its broad appeal and its even worse if you put animal rights over human rights. (kill hunters)
Animals have the right to be tasty.

I don't eat lion or shark, we are Apex predators like them and have an arrangement.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I am quite certain this topic now ventures into the realm of politics, and I reopened it so that folks could discuss the incident itself,  not the topic.  I'd hoped reopening this thread would help folks mend fences not continue to widen a rift.

It's safe to say that everyone has strong feelings over this lion and hunting, and that is perfectly fine. However, from this point forward any discussion of Cecil or arguing about hunting will be dealt with BY ME DIRECTLY.

Now,  if we can get back to our regular manner of respectful discussion without any more insults and blame I would very much appreciate it.

Def

[Whoey]

Guys.

You are all entitled to your opinions. No one is taking that from you, however, on this forum we have set rules about politics and religion as they are the two main causes of arguments, something we do not need here as there are plenty of forums out there for you to flame war on. The idea is for this place to be a peaceful refuge away from that crap and talk multitools etc. Hunting and fishing are clearly part of that scope.

This topic has clearly outrun whatever short life it should have had here, the original maybe should have been locked sooner as it was clearly turning political in a sense.

Calm down, we don't want anyone to go over something as silly as someone disagreeing over a very hot topic.

[Grant Lamontagne]

See?  There's a reason a lot of people call him Yoda.

Whoey is right.  The one thing you have to remember is that while we might occasionally have some flare ups and occasional bullsmurf going on, as a whole, the forum and it's members are much stronger than that.

I get that people are upset over this.  I get that some may feel that stepping away to gather perspective is important, and I totally support that.

BUT, think about the friends you have made here.  The deals you have gotten here.  Think of the times you have vented here and gotten support from everyone else- maybe not how you wanted or expected it, but it was always there. 

In the end it really bothers me that people are letting some silly comments over a media hyped flavor of the week get in the way of the friends they have made here.  That is exactly why religion and politics are banned, but at least these are real topics, not something manufactured by the media to sell newspapers- and yes, I know I am dating myself with the "selling newspaper" reference.

So someone disagreed with someone else.  Is that any reason to walk away and not look back?  I hope not, because I thought we were more than that here.

Def

[tosh]

Don't really know what to say here now without being controversial or having the context of what I say twisted.

I've been pondering on this subject all morning at work, trying to understand what the actual thrill of Big Game Hunting is.

What actually is the gain? From what I read most hire trackers, they travel by 4x4, they use proper Hunting Rifles equipped no doubt with superb optics. I imagine that the whole set up is very finely tuned......so where is the skill?

Regardless that the animal is tracked down and shot, what  was the gain and what exactly was the skill involved?

It's this that I do not understand.
Are there extra points if you "Score" a rare animal?
If it's the very last one is that the ultimate prize? A bit like finding the very first  PST leatherman ever produced. Does it somehow take on a much greater meaning?

I hope I've stayed within the new boundarys that Grant has laid - if I haven't then I'm clearly misunderstanding what's being asked.

[greenbear]

Don't really know what to say here now without being controversial or having the context of what I say twisted.

I've been pondering on this subject all morning at work, trying to understand what the actual thrill of Big Game Hunting is.

What actually is the gain? From what I read most hire trackers, they travel by 4x4, they use proper Hunting Rifles equipped no doubt with superb optics. I imagine that the whole set up is very finely tuned......so where is the skill?

Regardless that the animal is tracked down and shot, what  was the gain and what exactly was the skill involved?

It's this that I do not understand.
Are there extra points if you kill a rare animal?
If it's the very last one is that the ultimate prize? A bit like finding the very first  PST leatherman ever produced. Does it somehow take on a much greater meaning?

I hope I've stayed within the new boundarys that Grant has laid - if I haven't then I'm clearly misunderstanding what's being asked.

Hiya Tosh, as someone who has hunted in the past but no longer does perhaps I might answer some of your questions.

Hunting is a primeval urge and is widespread - fishing for example, one of the UK's largest hobbies illustrates the issues very well - it is a form of hunting (I know that almost without exception coarse fishermen return their catch).  It is about man v the animal/s and there is skill, cunning and wit involved.  I have not hunted "big game" so I cannot comment on that, but I have in the past been bird shooting on many occasions.  I too felt that thrill of the successful kill (although, to be clear, I did shoot for the pot) and the patience and anticipation and the remorse for having killed.  The walk away with a slight sadness at your own actions.  It is a living link to the past in our all too sanitised society.

I think the skill is really in the tracking more than the trophy - but you and I both come from the UK where hunting is largely frowned upon outside of necessary culling and food hunting (which is probably one of the reasons fox hunting is so contentious) and others will see things very differently depending upon their own country's culture.

And, yes, I do believe there is kudos regarding "rare" kills etc.  It  must be part of the attraction, or else nobody would bother to do it.  That kudos certainly existed in the UK in the past, on one occasion the future King George V and his shooting party shot in excess of 22,000 birds in a single hunt to set a new record.

[Huntsman]

Hi Tosh

You are not alone in this forum, or in the world, in being upset by this incident - and also not understanding why people do this.

However what Grant is saying, I believe, is let's not discuss this specific topic here anymore, as we are upsetting each other.

It's OK to discuss current affairs once in a while in this forum, but not if it causes us to loose members. Let's get back to discussing tools.

I hope that makes sense, or did I get that wrong?

[Gerhard Gerber]

Tough topic, I'm fence-sitting so badly my arse hurts 

If you look on the FB pages of people in this part of the world you'll soon notice that most people feel there are other major problems in Zim and Africa that deserves the attention and global outrage more.....

Then again, I'm upset every time our desert lions ( http://www.desertlion.info/ ) come second....

I have nothing against hunting, and even trophy hunting for some antelope species.

Elephant, rhino, lion, etc etc etc.........I always sincerely hope the hunter gets killed.

[tosh]

Thank you to you both for taking the trouble to reply.

I agree with the human instinct to hunt.
But the trophy hunting, as you say is more about the skill of the tracker.

So in my blissful ignorance, can I assume that those who have worked hard in life or been born into money can pay the large sums required to "pull the trigger" and score whatever it is that they've paid to take in Big Game Hunting.

So with that reasoning we are in effect unevolving - Neanderthal man hunted to eat, keep warm and protect themselves. Whereas today Big Game Huntiing is viewed in general as nothing more than a somewhat tasteless pastime enjoyed by the privileged elite.

Okay 

[zoidberg]

I'm calling this one done. If you have something to say, PM Grant as requested above. And please, no more threads about this.