Vic Warranty Update

[max6166]

Just wanted to update everyone on the status of the items I submitted to Victorinox Canada.

I sent in a Ranger and Swisstool for repair about 3 1/2 weeks ago. I just got off the phone with Vic, and they said they should be sending them back to me in approximately another week.

I think that's great and have no complaints on the turnaround. I am just happy they are even being fixed. They seemed to imply they would be repairing both items vs replacing them.

Be aware that Vic Canada doesn't seem to respond to emails regarding the status of repairs very quickly, or perhaps at all. I tried multiple addresses with no response. Phoning them, however, will get an almost immediate response. It's a little weird because the only other time I emailed them, they answered almost immediately.

I wonder how many items are sent to Vic for repair each month? I imagine quite a lot. It might be a good idea if they implemented some sort of RMA procedure with the ability for customers to track the status of items.

Regardless, you have got to admire a company that stands behind it's products like that, especially in this day and age.

[Leatherman123]

Glad to here it buddy!

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Well hopefully you won't be pacing the floor waiting to get them back for too much longer then mate

And yeah the warranty really is second to none

[max6166]

Thanks guys. 

Yeah, I was expecting it to be at least a month anyway, so that's not a problem.

In retrospect, I only asked for a tracking number when I sent it, but I should have also requested a signature upon delivery. The peace of mind is definitely worth the extra dollar or two.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Be aware that Victorinox Canada isn't terribly useful on the phone either.  They once told me that they had the knife on the workbench now, and the next day a package arrived with a brand new knife in it.  It was postmarked a week earlier.  I think they have a series of lines written down beside the phone that they are supposed to use whenever anyone calls and asks anything.

Def

[Rodion]

lol

Well, as long as they deliver...

[max6166]

Be aware that Victorinox Canada isn't terribly useful on the phone either.  They once told me that they had the knife on the workbench now, and the next day a package arrived with a brand new knife in it.  It was postmarked a week earlier.  I think they have a series of lines written down beside the phone that they are supposed to use whenever anyone calls and asks anything.

Def

I don't doubt it. But I am not worried too much about the rest though. I really just wanted to them to acknowledge that they had it. I am sure it'll arrive eventually. Maybe it'll even arrive tomorrow like yours did!

[Grant Lamontagne]

They do, and it's hard to argue with results.  Just remember that they are so full of it that their eyes are brown.

Nowadays if I have to deal with them, I just let them do their thing and be patient....

Def

[max6166]

Well, I just received my SwissTool and Ranger back after sending them in for repairs to Vic and I couldn't be happier.

As LM123 predicted, they replaced my 1998 SwissTool with a brand new 2005 model. Though I expected that, I was still kind of shocked that they really did it. It's quite amazing when you think about it.

I am 95% certain that they replaced my Ranger as well. The tip of the metal file on the replacement is markedly different from the one I sent in, so I am pretty sure the one I sent in did have some sort of manufacturing defect after all.

Now that I have a properly working SwissTool, I have to say that I really, really like it. I was blown away by the design and implementation of the handle tools before, and still am.

I think the serrations on the one blade are a little deeper from what I remember on the '98 model. Or maybe I am only noticing them from the opposite side. I think the term for the blade is chisel ground, so the serrations look differently on the angled side vs the flat side.

The pliers are perfectly fine on this model. They still feel a little loose to me, in that they open and close very freely. This is just a matter of preference though. It is not a flaw like the issues I was experiencing with my '98 ST.

The sole disappointing thing is that one of the handles is slightly loose. One of the top rivets on that handle sticks out more than others, which I think is also the cause. I am a little tempted to just bash that rivet in a little more and see if that fixes it, but I think it is more likely that I will just wind up both damaging it and ruining its appearance.

It is just a small thing though, so I will likely just live with it. It is a shame though, as except for that, I think it is an absolutely perfect multitool.

If this SwissTool has any flaw, it is that I like it so much that I am a little afraid to use it. I almost want to put it in a display case and just pull it out once in a while to play with it.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Result mate

I know they look pretty mate, but use and abuse with confidence

[sjdep97]

Results are the bottom line. Glad they took acre of you! 

[Dunc]

I used to worry that my Swisstool wasnt 100% perfect . If you look closely you will find a tiny thing wrong , slight play in blades or pliers , a file that sits off a little to one side , blades too tight or too loose etc. but after having had so many Swisstools go through my hands a perfect one is very rare . Please bare in mind that they are massed produced and not hand built . Sometimes we expect too much for the money . They are still better fit and finnish imo to the other big companies .
  Glad you got them both back  Now go put them to good use , dont be afraid to use the ST .

Dunc

[max6166]

I used to worry that my Swisstool wasnt 100% perfect . If you look closely you will find a tiny thing wrong , slight play in blades or pliers , a file that sits off a little to one side , blades too tight or too loose etc. but after having had so many Swisstools go through my hands a perfect one is very rare . Please bare in mind that they are massed produced and not hand built . Sometimes we expect too much for the money . They are still better fit and finnish imo to the other big companies .
  Glad you got them both back  Now go put them to good use , dont be afraid to use the ST .

Dunc

Those are great words of wisdom, my friend. 

[nitroman]

I sent my 1992 sak away for warranty repairs recently and recieved it back in 7 days. After years of use and abuse to get any product repaired so quickly with no questions asked says a lot about how good victorinox is when it comes to standing behind their product. You woudn't get that sort of service from mercedes benz or rolls royce. 

[Leatherman123]

I'm glad your happy now!

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

You woudn't get that sort of service from mercedes benz or rolls royce. 

Your not wrong there mate

[Mike D]

Max, keep us posted on the ST, I am curious if the plier head will get loose.

[Leatherman123]

It will.. But, it doesn't effect function in any way!

[max6166]

You guys couldn't let me just enjoy my ST in peace for a few days without bringing up its inevitable fate, could you?   

I'll just have to wait and see how bad it gets I guess. Everything else is so great on this MT, that I think it's worth the slight trade off with the plier pivot issues. I just hope that it doesn't get to the point that the tips move side to side again.

The topic is really interesting to me. Vic has mastered the handle implements part of the equation, but seems to be having problems with the entire folding plier area which is LM's hallmark.

If I compare the pliers implementation to a Leatherman, they look like essentially the same basic design, yet Vic's is a little loose even when new, and LM's is tight.

The one notable difference is the knurled screws at the top of the handles. I wish I had those on my ST right now, as I could just tighten up that one loose handle (if I had something that fit it, of course).

The LM plier pivot looks slightly little bigger to me, though the ST pliers are thicker and wider.

The LM design looks more straightforward, while the Vic 2005 design looks a little more engineered, though it is in reality less reliable. Perhaps this is the result of trying to correct for the very issues under discussion.

If you look at the arms that extend into the handles, LM's connect straight down the sides of the handles, while Vic's curve inward so that the stress is directly in the centre of the handle.

Vic seems to have been trying to restrict the maximum angle to which the pliers can be opened with their redesigns. As well, they have been widening the area at which the base of the jaws contact each other when opening the pliers. The result is that the ST cannot be opened as wide as they once could, and not nearly as widely as LM's pliers.

The other function of this base "stop" area is that it is where contact is made in order to fold the pliers closed. Perhaps that is actually where some of the pivot problems come from? Not from plier usage, but from repeated opening and closing of the plier handles?

At the end of the day, however, even the plier pivot on my brand new replacement SwissTool was just a tiny bit loose. They need to get them to the point that are coming out of the factory rock solid, because any small problem in that area is only going to get worse with repeated stress over time.

And the loose handle rivet just makes the problem feel worse. And this problem could be easily fixed. They just need to switch from a rivet to some sort of screw they can quickly tweak at the end of the process, a la Leatherman.

[Mike D]

.

The topic is really interesting to me. Vic has mastered the handle implements part of the equation, but seems to be having problems with the entire folding plier area which is LM's hallmark.

Its interesting to me too and the reason I keep bringing it up over and over. To me it IS a flaw and should be fixed. The plier is the thing I use most on all my multi's and every time I open up either of my ST's the first thing I notice is all the play in the plier.

The play on my X's plier is bad enough that it wont cut stranded copper wire at all, just folds it over, so IMO it does affect the way the tool works, and obviously Vic knows its a problem or otherwise they wouldn't hand out replacements for warranty claims.

[max6166]

From my very limited perspective, it seems that the problem is in the pivot itself. That doesn't leave much to talk about other than to note it.

I am really baffled that Vic hasn't fixed the problem after 5 different plier head modifications over 11 years. There is even a hint of pivot play right out of the box with their newest model!

It's all just so "un-Vic like"... 

[Dunc]

 

Vic knows its a problem or otherwise they wouldn't hand out replacements for warranty claims.

And other manufacturers dont do this  I've had Leathermans fail big time in cutting washing line . I've had LM's cross their jaws and come out with so much side play they wouldnt cut waffers

Dunc

[max6166]

LMs have this problem too? I didn't know that.

I just have the SwissTool and a Kick. I haven't used the Kick pliers for anything heavy yet, but they are rock solid so far...

[Leatherman123]

I've only heard about something like this on Bob's PST.. I've abused LM's for a long time and I have never had a pivot become loose and sloppy.. You really have to chill with this! It's just a little play that doesn't effect function!

[Mike D]

I've only heard about something like this on Bob's PST.. I've abused LM's for a long time and I have never had a pivot become loose and sloppy.. You really have to chill with this! It's just a little play that doesn't effect function!

I disagree that it doesn't affect its function, Max and I have both stated cases where is does affect function. Sorry if this is rubbing people the wrong way talking down their messiah of a Multi, but others should know that this tool isn't the perfect Swiss timepiece that some around here make it out to be.

Alls I can say is I have around twenty Leathermans, some of them being over 15 years old and used hard, none of them, and I mean none have loose plier head issues like both my ST's do. And just like Max, both my ST's came loose right out of the box and both have gotten steadily worse.

I just think the praise that gets heaped on the ST's around here needs a little reality injected into it. This tool is great don't get me wrong, but it does have this one major flaw that people should know about before they buy it.

[Dunc]

I've only heard about something like this on Bob's PST.. I've abused LM's for a long time and I have never had a pivot become loose and sloppy.. You really have to chill with this! It's just a little play that doesn't effect function!

I disagree that it doesn't affect its function, Max and I have both stated cases where is does affect function. Sorry if this is rubbing people the wrong way talking down their messiah of a Multi, but others should know that this tool isn't the perfect Swiss timepiece that some around here make it out to be.

Alls I can say is I have around twenty Leathermans, some of them being over 15 years old and used hard, none of them, and I mean none have loose plier head issues like both my ST's do. And just like Max, both my ST's came loose right out of the box and both have gotten steadily worse.

I just think the praise that gets heaped on the ST's around here needs a little reality injected into it. This tool is great don't get me wrong, but it does have this one major flaw that people should know about before they buy it.

What makes you so sure its a fault ? They still work dont they ? Mine all cut thin wire . I once had a LM PST who's jaws were so loose that you could rotate the pivot pin with your finger and thumb .
 I dont see it as a major problem .


Dunc

[Leatherman123]

Do you both (Max & Mike) have Standard SwissTools? I've noticed that only my Standard's have the pivot problem.. Just an observation!

[max6166]

Mine were both Standards, but Mike was complaining about an X.

Don't get me wrong. I love my current ST. It works great and is an amazing tool.

I plan on just using it and not worrying about any future problems. I am not certain that it will wind up with the same level of problem as my previous ST anyway.

Basically, I just really like examining and discussing this type of stuff. I admit there are probably better ways to spend one's time, but I find it fun to understand how these things are designed and put together.

It's still a fantastic tool though. And with Vic's superb warranty, I am not too worried.

[Roadie]

You say the plier pivot is loose, but that is one handy thing about the ST and Spirit, you don't have to open the jaws up manually; they automatically fall open which saves a lot of hassle if you use the pliers a lot. Its like having spring loaded jaws (if you use them so gravity takes over!) With Leathermans you tend to have to "force" them open

[max6166]

You say the plier pivot is loose, but that is one handy thing about the ST and Spirit, you don't have to open the jaws up manually; they automatically fall open which saves a lot of hassle if you use the pliers a lot. Its like having spring loaded jaws (if you use them so gravity takes over!) With Leathermans you tend to have to "force" them open

I don't mind that so much. We are talking more about the actual pivot coming apart, so that the wirecutting area develops a gap, etc.