Has anyone ever had problems with the police about their mt / knife

[BASguy]

People tend to behave when the playing field is equalized. 


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

[firiki]

Move to AZ.... No ridiculous rules about guns or knives.  No silly permission slips needed. 


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

And less crime than areas with those restrictions. Who would of ever thought. 

I guess it all depends on one's definition of ridiculous and of what a crime is 

[Alan K.]

I'm still new here so I don't know if this has been posted before, but this site has consolidated most of the knife laws in the U.S.  http://www.knifeup.com/knife-laws/
 

Twice I've had the police interested in my knife or knives.

the first time was when I was going in to the courthouse for jury duty and I forgot to leave my knife in the car.  The officer just told me I couldn't bring that in and I better go lock it in the car.  I was going to do that anyway, and had simply forgotten.

Second time I was subjected to a felony traffic stop. It was around 4 AM and my vehicle matched the description of one they were looking for.  I was pulled over by 2 police cars and 2 more arrived very soon after that.  I was ordered out of the vehicle and told to place my hands behind my head and walk backwards to the back of the vehicle.  I was grabbed and handcuffed and asked if I had any weapons on me.  I told them I had 2 knives on me and which pockets they were in.  The officer removed the knives.  After about 5 minutes of investigation they figured out I was not whoever they were looking for, so they thanked me for my cooperation, gave me back my knives, and told me I could leave. No problem.  I got an interesting story to tell out of the experience.

[cody6268]

No.   I don't think I have any dirks, daggers, bowies (this part of knife law left over from anti-dueling laws in the 1800s!), or switchblades, automatics, butterfly, etc. that are banned by state law. Anything else I'm fine with carrying.  A friend's son (who's about a year younger than me) carries a fixed blade hunting knife just about everywhere he goes, and has never gotten in trouble with it.  So I'm sure my Leatherman/Victorinox combo will never get in trouble with anyone.



In fact, the local police chief (who we knew when he was with the Sheriff's Office), gave me an inexpensive tactical knife with "POLICE" on it, and the current sheriff gave me a Classic-ish knife (one of the cheaper ones) with his name and "Sheriff" on it.     

[mley1]

Thank God I live in Texas! No, I've never had any trouble with any item I've carried. Texas has pretty lax knife laws. Shucks, I've even gone into town from my hunting camp wearing a rather large fix blade on my hip before, and no one batted an eye.

I was, however, a deputy sheriff for about ten years. And, my partner did confiscate a Buck 110 from a rather drunk gentleman during a Mardi Gras celebration in Galveston, TX. As I and my partner began to talk with this gentleman, and determined he was drunk, I placed one of his hands behind his back. Well, he stuck his other hand into his front right pocket, and produced the Buck 110, at which time I promptly placed him face first onto the ground. My partner took the knife from him. I took him to the county jail to sober up, and I have no idea what ever happened to that Buck. I never asked my partner what he did with it. The drunk gentleman may or may not have intended to harm us with the knife. We couldn't take that chance. Thankfully, no one got hurt. And, the drunk gentleman spent the night safe in a cell where he couldn't harm himself or others.

[Styerman]

Never , then again I don't act like a prat in public .

Chris

[BASguy]

Not sure why the police would hassle anyone that wasn't acting irresponsibly?


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

[Smashie]

I'm still new here so I don't know if this has been posted before, but this site has consolidated most of the knife laws in the U.S.  http://www.knifeup.com/knife-laws/
 

Twice I've had the police interested in my knife or knives.

the first time was when I was going in to the courthouse for jury duty and I forgot to leave my knife in the car.  The officer just told me I couldn't bring that in and I better go lock it in the car.  I was going to do that anyway, and had simply forgotten.

Second time I was subjected to a felony traffic stop. It was around 4 AM and my vehicle matched the description of one they were looking for.  I was pulled over by 2 police cars and 2 more arrived very soon after that.  I was ordered out of the vehicle and told to place my hands behind my head and walk backwards to the back of the vehicle.  I was grabbed and handcuffed and asked if I had any weapons on me.  I told them I had 2 knives on me and which pockets they were in.  The officer removed the knives.  After about 5 minutes of investigation they figured out I was not whoever they were looking for, so they thanked me for my cooperation, gave me back my knives, and told me I could leave. No problem.  I got an interesting story to tell out of the experience.

That's a good site, I have just learned that the last 20 times I have been to NY I have broken the law because I'm not a US Citizen.

[tattoosteve99]

I've been stopped many time by the locals here. They ask I answer. They do inquire why I carry so many. My answer to them is I make/mod them. Usually it gets a good convo going and most of the time a new customer .

[Sea Monster]

Not as such.

I have technically broken the law a bunch of times (depending on which state I'm in*)

and I suppose I have every intention of continuing to do so.

So far either the police have not noticed, or do not care.
I don't murder, threaten, or otherwise indicate harm to others, and they leave me alone. Seems fair enough.

My main concern is, if for some unrelated reason the cops wanted to talk to me, and then felt like being in a dick mood and getting me for a weapons charge just to fill out a slow day or something.


*some states (you know who you are) have on the spot fines for jaywalking and swearing.

[captain spaulding]

Not as such.

I have technically broken the law a bunch of times (depending on which state I'm in*)

and I suppose I have every intention of continuing to do so.

So far either the police have not noticed, or do not care.
I don't murder, threaten, or otherwise indicate harm to others, and they leave me alone. Seems fair enough.

My main concern is, if for some unrelated reason the cops wanted to talk to me, and then felt like being in a dick mood and getting me for a weapons charge just to fill out a slow day or something.


*some states (you know who you are) have on the spot fines for jaywalking and swearing.

While I am the type to agree with you I don't mess around with carrying illegal knives around here. Certain knives can land you a felony instantly. I don't really feel like going to prison, being a felon for the rest of my life, and losing basically all my rights (including the right to own a firearm) over a knife. I carry what is legal at all times.

I am in no way saying you should not do what you do as I have no idea what the penalties are in your area and it does not really matter the penalties since you can choose to do as you please as I don't have/want a say in your decisions. Just be careful. 

[powernoodle]

It is lawful for me to carry any knife or MT, either concealed or open, as well as a concealed or open carry firearm.  There are only a few restricted areas, like courts, police stations and schools.  So I have never had any problem with the police.  I have also practiced law for 23 years, I know the law inside and out, and have no fear of the police, so this is never an issue for me.

It would be perfectly legal for me to walk down the street with a machete on my belt and an AR-15 slung over my shoulder.  I would never do it, but its lawful.

Businesses may erect "no guns" and "no knives" signage where I live, but there is no penalty for ignoring the signs, so I carry a knife/MT and gun everywhere I go.

But with liberal knife/gun laws, and (what I consider) friendly police, what and where I carry has never been an issue.

[anditsgone]

It is lawful for me to carry any knife or MT, either concealed or open, as well as a concealed or open carry firearm.  There are only a few restricted areas, like courts, police stations and schools.  So I have never had any problem with the police.  I have also practiced law for 23 years, I know the law inside and out, and have no fear of the police, so this is never an issue for me.

It would be perfectly legal for me to walk down the street with a machete on my belt and an AR-15 slung over my shoulder.  I would never do it, but its lawful.

Businesses may erect "no guns" and "no knives" signage where I live, but there is no penalty for ignoring the signs, so I carry a knife/MT and gun everywhere I go.

But with liberal knife/gun laws, and (what I consider) friendly police, what and where I carry has never been an issue.

Even though i am not an American citizen i absolutely hate people who walk with their AR on the street just to alarm the cops. Than brag about their rights and annoy the smurf out of the cop just to make a youtube video. These are the guys who ruin it for the other 99 percent. If i were doing that with a knife in Holland and post it on youtube i would make this knife unfriendly country even more knife hating.

I also know my rights (they are not that much ), but i never search their bounderies and post it on youtube. That is just asking for the politicians to change the rules.

[captain spaulding]

It is lawful for me to carry any knife or MT, either concealed or open, as well as a concealed or open carry firearm.  There are only a few restricted areas, like courts, police stations and schools.  So I have never had any problem with the police.  I have also practiced law for 23 years, I know the law inside and out, and have no fear of the police, so this is never an issue for me.

It would be perfectly legal for me to walk down the street with a machete on my belt and an AR-15 slung over my shoulder.  I would never do it, but its lawful.

Businesses may erect "no guns" and "no knives" signage where I live, but there is no penalty for ignoring the signs, so I carry a knife/MT and gun everywhere I go.

But with liberal knife/gun laws, and (what I consider) friendly police, what and where I carry has never been an issue.

Even though i am not an American citizen i absolutely hate people who walk with their AR on the street just to alarm the cops. Than brag about their rights and annoy the smurf out of the cop just to make a youtube video. These are the guys who ruin it for the other 99 percent. If i were doing that with a knife in Holland and post it on youtube i would make this knife unfriendly country even more knife hating.

I also know my rights (they are not that much ), but i never search their bounderies and post it on youtube. That is just asking for the politicians to change the rules.

While I somewhat agree you have to understand something. A lot of the guys doing that are not just doing it for the fun of it. In certain areas people are not being issued concealed carry permits like the law states they should. By law we must have at least one form or way of carrying a firearm outside your home for protection. So for those counties that strictly enforced NOT issuing CCW permits because of the "good cause" statement needed, that was the reason why they could get around not issuing them because there is a way to carry outside your home which was called open carry. Open carry was not a well known law to most citizens until recently (and previously in the 60's). Basically the law abiding citizens just want to be issued concealed carry permits, but the cities do not want to. So the only other legal option is to open carry a pistol or rifle. In the early stages 90% of them chose pistols. Well the open carry movement took off and the law was changed to ban open carry of pistols. So the citizens did what was only the last option which is to open carry a rifle. Now the state banned open carry of any firearm so because of that now they are "required" to issue conceal carry permits as they have cut off the last legal way to carry a firearm outside your home. Their have been a few cases since the ban in favor of the citizen because these conceal carry "good cause statements" are unconstitutional. They are working on getting the Peruta v. San Diego ruling to become case law and be enforced throughout California.

Just some things to think about. Its not always as it seems and their is a lot going on you might not understand or even be aware of. People are fighting for their rights that are ALREADY being unconstitutionally infringed on.

[kirk13]

It is lawful for me to carry any knife or MT, either concealed or open, as well as a concealed or open carry firearm.  There are only a few restricted areas, like courts, police stations and schools.  So I have never had any problem with the police.  I have also practiced law for 23 years, I know the law inside and out, and have no fear of the police, so this is never an issue for me.

It would be perfectly legal for me to walk down the street with a machete on my belt and an AR-15 slung over my shoulder.  I would never do it, but its lawful.

Businesses may erect "no guns" and "no knives" signage where I live, but there is no penalty for ignoring the signs, so I carry a knife/MT and gun everywhere I go.

But with liberal knife/gun laws, and (what I consider) friendly police, what and where I carry has never been an issue.

Even though i am not an American citizen i absolutely hate people who walk with their AR on the street just to alarm the cops. Than brag about their rights and annoy the smurf out of the cop just to make a youtube video. These are the guys who ruin it for the other 99 percent. If i were doing that with a knife in Holland and post it on youtube i would make this knife unfriendly country even more knife hating.

I also know my rights (they are not that much ), but i never search their bounderies and post it on youtube. That is just asking for the politicians to change the rules.

While I somewhat agree you have to understand something. A lot of the guys doing that are not just doing it for the fun of it. In certain areas people are not being issued concealed carry permits like the law states they should. By law we must have at least one form or way of carrying a firearm outside your home for protection. So for those counties that strictly enforced NOT issuing CCW permits because of the "good cause" statement needed, that was the reason why they could get around not issuing them because there is a way to carry outside your home which was called open carry. Open carry was not a well known law to most citizens until recently (and previously in the 60's). Basically the law abiding citizens just want to be issued concealed carry permits, but the cities do not want to. So the only other legal option is to open carry a pistol or rifle. In the early stages 90% of them chose pistols. Well the open carry movement took off and the law was changed to ban open carry of pistols. So the citizens did what was only the last option which is to open carry a rifle. Now the state banned open carry of any firearm so because of that now they are "required" to issue conceal carry permits as they have cut off the last legal way to carry a firearm outside your home. Their have been a few cases since the ban in favor of the citizen because these conceal carry "good cause statements" are unconstitutional. They are working on getting the Peruta v. San Diego ruling to become case law and be enforced throughout California.

Just some things to think about. Its not always as it seems and their is a lot going on you might not understand or even be aware of. People are fighting for their rights that are ALREADY being unconstitutionally infringed on.

 

Cheers for that Cap! It's something very few of us in Europe would be aware of

[BASguy]

It is lawful for me to carry any knife or MT, either concealed or open, as well as a concealed or open carry firearm.  There are only a few restricted areas, like courts, police stations and schools.  So I have never had any problem with the police.  I have also practiced law for 23 years, I know the law inside and out, and have no fear of the police, so this is never an issue for me.

It would be perfectly legal for me to walk down the street with a machete on my belt and an AR-15 slung over my shoulder.  I would never do it, but its lawful.

Businesses may erect "no guns" and "no knives" signage where I live, but there is no penalty for ignoring the signs, so I carry a knife/MT and gun everywhere I go.

But with liberal knife/gun laws, and (what I consider) friendly police, what and where I carry has never been an issue.

Even though i am not an American citizen i absolutely hate people who walk with their AR on the street just to alarm the cops. Than brag about their rights and annoy the smurf out of the cop just to make a youtube video. These are the guys who ruin it for the other 99 percent. If i were doing that with a knife in Holland and post it on youtube i would make this knife unfriendly country even more knife hating.

I also know my rights (they are not that much ), but i never search their bounderies and post it on youtube. That is just asking for the politicians to change the rules.

While I somewhat agree you have to understand something. A lot of the guys doing that are not just doing it for the fun of it. In certain areas people are not being issued concealed carry permits like the law states they should. By law we must have at least one form or way of carrying a firearm outside your home for protection. So for those counties that strictly enforced NOT issuing CCW permits because of the "good cause" statement needed, that was the reason why they could get around not issuing them because there is a way to carry outside your home which was called open carry. Open carry was not a well known law to most citizens until recently (and previously in the 60's). Basically the law abiding citizens just want to be issued concealed carry permits, but the cities do not want to. So the only other legal option is to open carry a pistol or rifle. In the early stages 90% of them chose pistols. Well the open carry movement took off and the law was changed to ban open carry of pistols. So the citizens did what was only the last option which is to open carry a rifle. Now the state banned open carry of any firearm so because of that now they are "required" to issue conceal carry permits as they have cut off the last legal way to carry a firearm outside your home. Their have been a few cases since the ban in favor of the citizen because these conceal carry "good cause statements" are unconstitutional. They are working on getting the Peruta v. San Diego ruling to become case law and be enforced throughout California.

Just some things to think about. Its not always as it seems and their is a lot going on you might not understand or even be aware of. People are fighting for their rights that are ALREADY being unconstitutionally infringed on.

Well said Captain.  It's never a good idea to walk the line of the law, for practical purposes.  Being right about something and having to spend time and money to prove your right is just kinda silly if you can avoid it.  Here is AZ, pretty much everything goes.  No restrictive knife laws at all, as a result you rarely see anyone carrying a big fixed blade strapped to their hip just because they can.  Does it happen....? Sure, but it's rare and it would likely not get much more attention than a casual gawk.  The culture has removed the intimidation factor.  As far as firearms go, the state has open carry and concealed carry as a constitutional right, no government issued permission slips required.  As a result of that, you occasionally see people open carry, but it's not prevalent.  However, when you see someone open carry, it's just like the knife scenario, nobody seems to care very much.  Old ladies don't run screaming out of the grocery stores, etc.
AZ is very much a holdover of the Wild West culture, and folks you need to understand what that means.....the real Wild West was a pretty safe place to be when everyone was armed.  The murder rate across the western territories has been calculated to be .4-.6.  Now compare that to highly restrictive gun control places like Chicago, or Washington DC where the rate is 7-9. 
PHX is the 5th largest city in the country and has the lowest violent crime rate. 
Statistics have proven that pro gun areas are not only safer, they are by and large significantly safer than restrictive gun law areas. 
When government steps in to make its citizens safer by restricting access to sharp pointy objects and things that go bang.....you usually end up losing your security along with your Liberty....... IMO anyway.


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

[powernoodle]

i absolutely hate people who walk with their AR on the street just to alarm the cops.

I would contend that no one has ever done it just to alarm the police.  Rather, on the exceedingly rare occasion that is has been done - which I have never seen in person - it is to exercise one's personal liberty and to demonstrate that politicians, bureaucrats and police officers are not our masters.  If a person does not exercise his lawful, constitutional and natural law rights, and instead bows before the weak kneed, the Thought Police and the so-called political correct, those rights will quite literally disappear.  Failing to exercise a right is tantamount to not having that right, whether it relates to a firearm, an MT or a voting booth.  They are inextricably intertwined, such that the failure to exercise one right diminishes all rights.

[BASguy]

i absolutely hate people who walk with their AR on the street just to alarm the cops.

I would contend that no one has ever done it just to alarm the police.  Rather, on the exceedingly rare occasion that is has been done - which I have never seen in person - it is to exercise one's personal liberty and to demonstrate that politicians, bureaucrats and police officers are not our masters.  If a person does not exercise his lawful, constitutional and natural law rights, and instead bows before the weak kneed, the Thought Police and the so-called political correct, those rights will quite literally disappear.  Failing to exercise a right is tantamount to not having that right, whether it relates to a firearm, an MT or a voting booth.  They are inextricably intertwined, such that the failure to exercise one right diminishes all rights.

Spoken like a lawyer...... Now we've proven all lawyers aren't bad.


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

[dks]

I do understand the fun/gadget/tool factor of carrying any gun/knife multitool etc, and happily do it myself, but, I am always surprised by the fact that people, in the US, the most powerful country in the world, feel the need to have a gun to protect themselves when walking down the street (I assume it is not done in order to keep the British out anymore - there is an army for that  ). It makes me wonder what kind of streets people walk through, that have them in constant fear. I have been in many war torn countries and never faced any danger that would have been eliminated by me producing a gun.

Is it a need, or is it just because it is legal?

[AimlessWanderer]

I do understand the fun/gadget/tool factor of carrying any gun/knife multitool etc, and happily do it myself, but, I am always surprised by the fact that people, in the US, the most powerful country in the world, feel the need to have a gun to protect themselves when walking down the street (I assume it is not done in order to keep the British out anymore - there is an army for that  ). It makes me wonder what kind of streets people walk through, that have them in constant fear. I have been in many war torn countries and never faced any danger that would have been eliminated by me producing a gun.

Is it a need, or is it just because it is legal?

One thing that I like about this post, is that it reminds me we are all different.

I have my personal views about the culture and laws about this country, but I do not presume to know or profess what is right in any other location. I do not know what it is like to be a citizen of another country. What it feels like to be submerged or raised in another culture. While I do try to have the patience to understand others, I admit I will never be able to see the world through their eyes, just as I admit/accept, others will never see the world through my eyes.

Let us remember that at MTO we embrace those differences, and that there is no universally "correct" philosophy, just as there is no universally "best" SAK or multitool. Also, that if someone questions something, that does not mean they challenge it.

Here's to us all being different  may our differences continue to bind us, and not seperate us 

[BASguy]

I do understand the fun/gadget/tool factor of carrying any gun/knife multitool etc, and happily do it myself, but, I am always surprised by the fact that people, in the US, the most powerful country in the world, feel the need to have a gun to protect themselves when walking down the street (I assume it is not done in order to keep the British out anymore - there is an army for that  ). It makes me wonder what kind of streets people walk through, that have them in constant fear. I have been in many war torn countries and never faced any danger that would have been eliminated by me producing a gun.

Is it a need, or is it just because it is legal?

Why would you assume anyone carries a gun out of fear?  That seems peculiar to me as I know many people that carry guns, yet I've never personally known anyone to do it out of fear.  Same goes for knives and multitools.    I think you misunderstand the entire issue.  There are in fact many, many areas within the USA that are high crime areas, and many folks wouldn't feel safe for legitimate reasons.  Having said that, those are almost without exception, heavily restricted gun free zones.  Perhaps you see the pattern now......


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

[dks]

My assumption is based on the claim that they are being carried for self defence, usually followed by a description of the streets or areas they have to walk through. I did not say that all people that carry guns do it because of fear. I did mention that I was wondering about the streets people walk through, and whether there should be such streets in the US, and, if in such a street pulling a gun will actually help you. No anti gun preaching or anything like that, in my post.

[captain spaulding]

I would like to address this question, but I just woke up so I will be back later. Thank you everyone for keeping it civil.

[Aloha]

@DKS, you might be surprised for me to say, there are areas ( streets ) that one cannot simply walk down in the US.  I'd also add there are streets that one should not drive thru as well.  There was a story about a family that sadly got lost on one of these streets and was shot.

That being said, I don't think the majority of "average joe" gun people live in those areas nor frequent them either.  I don't know what the rest of the world thinks when they hear US and guns.  We shouldn't be viewed as all having the same beliefs just because we live in the US.   I will say it does strike me as ( I cannot find the right word ) that only the police should be "allowed" to have them.  To me this is a very unsettling/odd/scary/etc etc etc thought.  Powernoodle more or less said it better than I could regarding our rights.     

I don't have any facts nor figures to either side of the gun conversation.  I cannot tell anyone the stats on the "average joe" gun owner or "bad guy" gun owner.  I don't even know what I'm "allowed" to own if I choose.  I will continue to say, I don't have any issues with people wanting to carry them openly or concealed.  I actually like the idea of them openly carried to be honest. 

I didn't quite understand Basguys response to you. I personally tend to see people from middle class and upper class wanting to carry guns for protection as well.  I think you are asking a fair question since I live in the US and feel the same.  Look all over youtube and we can see exactly what you are asking.  Guys and women specifically saying I carry a gun JUST IN CASE.  I get exercising our rights and have nothing to add or subtract from that.  This is directed at those who want to carry guns for protection.   

On the above note it's odd for those reasons honestly.  Stay out the high crime areas as the upper an middle class do anyway.  Sure crime can follow you anywhere but I've also not heard much of "joe gun owner" pulling out his gun to dissuade a robber.  I've only heard (news) of a woman in her home shooting robbers.  This also seems very rare to be honest.  I really don't see any "average joe" shooting anyone.  For one the situations are rare for the "average joe".  I also don't see the "average joe" wandering into bad areas nor bad situations.  Home invasions, burglaries, sure they happen but I also rarely hear about "average joe" shooting anyone.  I think I recall one situation where a single mom shot a couple guys but thats it. 

 

         

 
     

[Etherealicer]

I have hitchhiked and lived in the US for a while and there is one thing that Europeans have difficulties to grasp:
The USA is huge and empty. I've been in villages or what passes as village, where the houses where half a kilometer apart. Because of those distances you don't have tarmac roads everywhere, so you get long distances with less than perfect roads. That means a lot of times you cannot rely on emergency services to get to you quickly and from that results a need to take care of problems yourself.
So, owning a gun for home protection seems like a logical choice.

You have cats to keep the rat population down, dog to protect the cat from the coyote and a rifle, when the coyotes get too frisky... You have rifles to shoot prairie dogs. So, overall guns are used for pest control.

Hunting is also pretty commonplace in the US and unlike Europe (at least Switzerland / Germany and France, where I'm familiar with the laws) its much easier to get a licence. Its also very popular. I actually think that this is great, gives you a better perspective how that piece of meat came to be on your plate.

What I'm trying to say the gun is much more part of the US-way of living, it is more than a weapon, it's also a tool. Most European see guns like some politicians see knifes, very one-dimensional and only as weapons, but like knifes, guns are more.

[AimlessWanderer]

Why would you assume anyone carries a gun out of fear?  That seems peculiar to me as I know many people that carry guns, yet I've never personally known anyone to do it out of fear.  Same goes for knives and multitools.    I think you misunderstand the entire issue. There are in fact many, many areas within the USA that are high crime areas, and many folks wouldn't feel safe for legitimate reasons.  Having said that, those are almost without exception, heavily restricted gun free zones.  Perhaps you see the pattern now......


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

Which came first here? I assume the gun controls came in due to crime, as I doesn't seem like somewhere over there would bring in regional legislation without there being a specific problem.

Genuine question BTW 

We have our bad areas here too, though I've never known anywhere as bad as described by Aloha. There are areas which I would avoid walking through if avoidable, but I have driven through such areas and not had any bother.

Here though, we all live under the same set of rules, so there's no statistical "chicken and egg" arguements. The same laws apply in the rough areas as in the pleasant areas. After a few years these problem areas typically get addressed by displacement, whereby the area is subject to intervention and/or redevelopment, only for the problems to then start reestablishing in a different area (or so it seems).

[AimlessWanderer]

I have hitchhiked and lived in the US for a while and there is one thing that Europeans have difficulties to grasp:
The USA is huge and empty. I've been in villages or what passes as village, where the houses where half a kilometer apart. Because of those distances you don't have tarmac roads everywhere, so you get long distances with less than perfect roads. That means a lot of times you cannot rely on emergency services to get to you quickly and from that results a need to take care of problems yourself.
So, owning a gun for home protection seems like a logical choice.

I fully appreciate the distance and response times, just as I do the fact there are wild animals (not just two legged ones) that may be a predator, or yes, even a food source. Here there's hardly anything to hunt other than birds (duck, pheasant, partridge etc). We have little in the way of deer, no wild boar, no undomesticated bovines, and no space for any of those to live either. Throw a dart at a map of the UK, and the chances are that you'll hit somewhere within 20 minutes of a police station, fire station, and ambulance/paramedic (not counting traffic or units currently deployed elsewhere).

I think there is also misperceptions all around as to what is or is not allowed. You'll see folks here posting pics of their fixed blades, some rather sizable ones too. You can get a firearm license (longarms) here. Hunting and pest control and target (stationary and clay) happens here. We don't have the militia background here, and we address the rights of self defence differently (in a way which I view appropriate to the current societal conditions here). It's a completely different world. Our ways probably wouldn't work elsewhere, and other ways probably wouldn't work here.

Once we cross our boundaries to visit our neighbours, despite their relatively close proximity, they will have different rules, evolved in a different way, because they have had different ways of life and different challenges and opportunities. I don't tend to "judge" one set of rules against another, because we've each adapted what the nation thought was best for it's people at any given time.

It can be the mundane stuff too. France, our closest neighbour, has more daylight hours than we do. However, go through the tunnel or on a ferry, and if you haven't got spare bulbs in you're car, you're breaking the law.

[Aloha]

Great post Ether  .  Since I'm not a hunter I totally missed the hunting aspect of gun ownership, goes to prove how much I know  .   I think somewhere in Texas there is a ferrel pig problem.  Trapping or poisoning them is really not the way to go about it I imagine so shooting them makes perfect sense.  Texas is a huge state and like California there are pretty vast areas of desolate communities.  I certainly wouldn't want to wait for help if my life or my families was at risk.  I live in the suburbs so I don't worry at all.   


           

[BASguy]

Why would you assume anyone carries a gun out of fear?  That seems peculiar to me as I know many people that carry guns, yet I've never personally known anyone to do it out of fear.  Same goes for knives and multitools.    I think you misunderstand the entire issue. There are in fact many, many areas within the USA that are high crime areas, and many folks wouldn't feel safe for legitimate reasons.  Having said that, those are almost without exception, heavily restricted gun free zones.  Perhaps you see the pattern now......


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

Which came first here? I assume the gun controls came in due to crime, as I doesn't seem like somewhere over there would bring in regional legislation without there being a specific problem.

Genuine question BTW 

We have our bad areas here too, though I've never known anywhere as bad as described by Aloha. There are areas which I would avoid walking through if avoidable, but I have driven through such areas and not had any bother.

Here though, we all live under the same set of rules, so there's no statistical "chicken and egg" arguements. The same laws apply in the rough areas as in the pleasant areas. After a few years these problem areas typically get addressed by displacement, whereby the area is subject to intervention and/or redevelopment, only for the problems to then start reestablishing in a different area (or so it seems).

This is the issue that gun/knife control advocates create.... A solution looking for a problem. 
You would be extremely hard pressed to find any heavy gun controlled area within the US that has shown a reduction in violent crime (per capita) due to these restrictions.  It's without argument that very heavily populated areas like Washington DC, Chicago, and NYC have trended the opposite direction as areas like Phoenix due to these "safety measures".  This same test can be applied to knife restrictions. 

Having spent extensive amounts of time working and traveling around Europe, I can attest to the fact that few Europeans would understand how desolate massive parts of the US really is.  Even in reasonably populated areas, when seconds count the police are minutes away.  However, my time in Europe has been concentrated in population centers so perhaps I've not gotten an accurate feel for the area.  Not sure.

Arguments can be well formulated for both sides of the issue, however actual statistics speak for themselves and clearly prove that the fewer the restrictions the lower the real violent crime rates are.  Knife laws are vastly due to perception as opposed to any sort of actual reality of circumstance.  The vast majority of knife related crimes fall into essentially 2 categories.  Those committing crimes with knives and those caught with knives that violate local ordinances.  Those folks committing the knife related crimes in +90% of situations are using common kitchen cutlery. 

We are very good at creating solutions for problems, and that usually is the result of people not liking things that other folks do and feel the need to correct the behavior.


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

[captain spaulding]

Great conversation going on. 

I have so much to say, but honestly if I quoted everyone and responded to everything I would be here all day so I will just ramble a bit. 


First off I love how a Knife/MT thread turns into gun talk once again. 

I do understand the fun/gadget/tool factor of carrying any gun/knife multitool etc, and happily do it myself, but, I am always surprised by the fact that people, in the US, the most powerful country in the world, feel the need to have a gun to protect themselves when walking down the street (I assume it is not done in order to keep the British out anymore - there is an army for that  ). It makes me wonder what kind of streets people walk through, that have them in constant fear. I have been in many war torn countries and never faced any danger that would have been eliminated by me producing a gun.

Is it a need, or is it just because it is legal?

There is not a single answer for this. It really depends on the location you live in and your personal beliefs. What I mean is not everyone carries a gun for the same reason. Some might live in rural areas and carry for protection against wild animals, putting down sick animals, ect. Others who live in a suburban area might carry because they want to be prepared just in case. The list goes on. 





The rest of this is just me babbling.


One thing I wanted to mention. I feel like people in other countries see it as EVERYONE in America carries a gun. It is not that way at all. Every state has their own "ideas" on gun rights. Basically there are known pro-gun states and known anti-gun states. Generally most of the pro-gun states are down south and in the mid west. Now in each of the 50 states every single county can decide if they want to issue concealed carry permits or not since the Sheriff basically gets to decide (at least in California). There are roughly 3,144 counties in the USA so every county is different. I'n the old county I lived in it was so anti-gun about 5 years back only 4 concealed carry permits were issued to non law enforcement officers. 4 permits issued in a 1.094 million person population! That's such a low number its a fraction of a percent and might as well be zero. Now if you go to the south the numbers would be much, much higher in concealed carry permits issued. Other states (I think there is 3 or 4 now) do not require a permit to conceal carry. If you can legally purchase a firearm you can carry it. There are major extremes in gun culture in the USA.

As far as a "need" for it. Again this all goes back to your location, but in a way it does not even matter. What I mean is yes people need to carry guns. The rancher might use his gun daily so he needs it. The average citizen that has a carry permit may never have to use his gun, but in my eyes that does not mean he needs it any less. With all the crime and shootings happening you just never know. Why take the chance of not being prepared at the time of need. Say you are walking out your door and see you LM Wave on the table. You decide to leave it and walk out the door. Turns out you need to cut some string or whatever and you can't because you left your tool at home. Well that sucks, but life goes on. Now, imagine the same scenario except its your gun you leave behind. Instead of not cutting that string your not going to be alive anymore. Its a crazy world and being able to protect yourself is just a part of life or death.

A very simple way I have explained to people why others might wan to own a gun is this. People do not expect a fire or their house to burn down yet we keep fire extinguishers in our homes just in case. Same goes for people who carry guns. You never expect to use it, but if you ever need to you have it and can deal with the possible deadly situation in your favor. 

I am in no way try to convince people to carry a gun or own a gun because its everyone's own personal decision, but when someone kicks down your door or robs you with a weapon i'm pretty sure your going to wish you could defend yourself and not being able to do so was your decision.

There are terrible, terrible areas in basically every state in the USA that people want to avoid. A lot of the time people live in nicer areas, but work or commute through bad areas. If you are spending 8+ hours a day in a terrible neighborhood the likely hood of something happening is high. Just simply being in the wrong area can get you killed and that is not a exaggeration.



As far as not hearing about people using their guns in self defense situation. A lot of it has to do with media. They don't really care and if someone with a CCW kills a bad guy its not on the news and if it is its just local news. Now if some crazy guy kills a single person with a gun its on every news station in every state. Here are a couple of videos.



WARNING! I don't really think it needs a warning more like mandatory watching, but just a heads up.



First one is something that is quite scary and could of ended up with 2 people being hacked up into little pieces. This could happen to anyone.

LINK REMOVED [Graphic Video: The Only Proof You Need That Guns Save Lives: "I Did The Right Thing"]


Some other videos that you should really watch because it shows how life really is and people need to be prepared.


LINK REMOVED [The Armed Citizen: Fight Crime By Fighting Back]

LINK REMOVED [The Armed Citizen II: Public Defense]

LINK REMOVED [People saved by guns complete version]