How much does steel type matter to you?

[HarleyXJGuy]

Huge Spyderco fan that almost monthly buys some supersteel sprint. HAP 40 Delica is on the way.

That said, other then work where I use my knives hard and can be away from a good sharpening system for a week or two at a time. I am fine with Vic or LM blade steel for regular stuff when I can touch it up as needed.

[WWW]

My first 'high end' steel was 154cm in a LM Charge XTi. I've since used everything from S110V to CTS-XHP, 3V, 8Cr13MoV, S35Vn, etc. I probably have 30 different steel types in my collection.

Ultimately, if the knife has good geometry and good heat treat, then I will carry and use it. More often, I find the decision of what I carry comes down to blade and handle shape and how it carries in the pocket or sheath.

I went through a small phase of steel snobbery, but realized that there was more to a knife than just the steel type. It was also hard to justify the extra cost on some of the blades for what ultimately will be a small increase in noticeable performance if anything. That was also around the time I said "Smurf it. I'll buy and use what I like.".

To all those who carry and use their high end steel folders and fixed blades, I salute you .

  Very well said.

[Steinar]

In some ways I care a lot about knife steel, but my preferences are probably inverse to what most who care. That is, I don't want extremely highly alloyed “super steels” prone to breaking or micro chipping in most types of knives. Also, I'm no fan of cobalt in a blade which have any real chance of coming into contact with food. (Yes, I know most cobalt steels used for cutlery are food grade, VG-10 being a prime example, but I'm talking personal preferences and hangups here. Also, I usually sharpen knives in the kitchen, so metallic dust may spread.) So, basically, what kind of steel I want, is highly dependent on what kind of knife we are talking about. But really, as long as it has enough carbon to harden properly (.6-.8%) I'm happy enough. Most steel is a lot better than I “need” anyway. DIN 1.4110 being a major exemption to that rule of thumb for C, as Vic steel is just fine for that kind of knife for me. I suck at sharpening, so I prefer ease of sharpening over edge holding too.

Short version: Advanced steels are great, but it must make sense. Not just choose some fancy steel because it sounds good in adverts.

A typical silly thing with super steels in knives is using high speed steels because they sound cool. Who cares about the knife blade being usable at very high temperatures? Knives are cold work tools in 99.99999....% of all reasonable cases...

[Sea Monster]

Apparently opinel steel is

C 0.8
Mn 0.3
Si 0.15
P 0.030
S 0.035

That only means a limited amount to me, but that's the steel I use every day to cut tape, rope, cardboard, rubber, plastic sheet, etc etc etc.

I guess I run it over the stone once a month?

My kitchen knives (various brands, including Vic) use X50CrMoV15
which is
C 0.5
Cr 14
Mo 0.65
V 0.15
Mn 1.00
Si 1.00


That chops all sorts of food, whacking into a timber block, every night, and again, run it over the stone probably monthly.


FWIW - 440C has
C 0.95
Cr 16

Arguably - better edge than a Carbon Opinel, and more corrosion resistant than a Vic kitchen knife.


How that pans out in the real world is subject to experience.

[AimlessWanderer]

Good info mate, but chemistry is only part of the equation. How it's worked, treated, and machined, also have a bearing on the performance of the finished product.

You're right how humble steels like the Opinels and general kitchen knives perform well. They're quick and easy to touch up the edge to. Most people don't actually need anything any better in their knives, even if many do like a higher cost steel for whatever reason.

[Sea Monster]

Good info mate, but chemistry is only part of the equation. How it's worked, treated, and machined, also have a bearing on the performance of the finished product.

I was keeping it simple for the sake of discussion, otherwise we'd be here all day and still not decide what's the best balance of qualities!

I do have other things to do today 


For the sake of argument though - without going to the factories, the consumer has no particularly reliable way of knowing how any given producer prepares and finishes the steel - so we get given the "type" and some marketing smurf about how great it is, with little other than the brand reputation to suggest if we're getting an excellent knife, or a designer paperweight of premium metal.

[AimlessWanderer]

... and then they come to MTO for opinions.... and get REALLY confused




not just with the range of differing opinions, but why they now own 5 multitools and a dozen SAKs 

 

[Styerman]

The older I get , the less it matters . 154CM , A2, D2 , 440C , with the right heat treat work fine.

In a folder , I prefer a ,more stain resistant steel. In a FB , not a big deal .

Chris

[Styerman]

Kudos , to lots of manufacturers , (ie: Spyderco ) , who make so many new steels available , at an affordable price .

Chris

[dks]

The only easy way to know more about a steel, apart from its composition and whether it is powdered type or not, is to read, and trust, the Hardness specifications the makers publish.

[eamo]

 but why they now own 5 multitools and a dozen SAKs 

 

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^   

oh, and to stay on topic, i am totally ignorant of steel types, so it matters not.

[Luna Knife]

Sandvik 12C27 is easy to sharpen and hold an edge a really long time.  Thats what I like in a steel.  I like a variety of hi carbon knife steels as well

[this_is_nascar]

Doesn't matter to me at all.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Joe58]

I prefer stainless over carbon steel blades for my daily carry knives.

I find that the price of the knife dictates the purchase as opposed to the steel used. Not sure I'm phrasing that correctly.

It annoys me when I see a company charging $100 for a knife in 1095, or 440C for example.

If I'm laying what I consider to be a premium price, I expect a higher grade steel in return.

But I carry and use knives from Vic, Buck, on up to knives using ATS34, CPM154, S30v, S35v, S110v, D2, etc., etc. I like them all.

So I'm pretty happy with about all of it providing it has a good heat treat, and edge geometry. In some cases I may need to touch up the edge a little more often, but that's ok if I like the knife.

[sir_mike]

when I was collecting knives like Spyderco's like the PM2's I want the all the various steel offering but in actual use it didnt matter too much to me.  It had to have good heat treat, hold a decent edge and sharpen up fairly easily.  I wasn't going to spend a lot of money on a super steel then also have to go out and purchase better stones or equipment to be able to sharpen them.

Now that I dont collect anymore, I have no issue using whatever I currently have in the sak's, mt's, and couple of Spydies, whether it is 400 series, 154cm, cts-204p, vg-10, 1095 or N695.

I am more concerned with prices vs steel.  Example:  I couldn't bring my self to ever purchase a knife with that 8cr13 steel for $35 when I can find a knife with vg-10 or similar for like $5-10 more.  So to me it was my idea of cost vs steel type (what I think is good or okay steel).  If that makes sense!

[getahl]

Steel type doesn't make much difference to me. I pay more attention to blade thickness and type of grind, and hardness, to a slightly lesser extent. As long as I can sharpen it,  that's pretty much all I care about.

[Alan K.]

What it's made out of is less an issue for me than how it is made.  I have had some very cheap knives that were great and some very expensive knives that didn't work at all.  I had a catastrophic failure once where a knife turned out to be cast (badly) rather than forged. Since that happened I'm more concerned with quality of construction than what it's made of.

[BASguy]

I don't know much about steel, but any Leatherman I've had either comes wicked sharp, or can easily be touched up to be that way.  Vic steel seems to be about the same.  The Rough Rider Barlows I carry are stamped 440 and they are thick, solid, durable, and wicked sharp also.
Honestly, I wouldn't know good steel from great steel, but I've had many Imperial Schrade knives (USA, Ireland, and Chinese made) and Buck knives and have never had good luck getting an edge on them.


Sent from 9 miles from the face of the sun

[Gerhard Gerber]

I just recently had experience grinding a D6 blade, then afterwards some 5160.

The maker presenting the course correctly remarked "like butter" when fixing a problem with my grind on the 5160.....using an old belt.  With the D6 you get a few passes on a new belt before it stops eating like it should.....

The difference between the two steels (annealed) is remarkable, yet both will end up Rockwell 57-58 and both will make good knives.

Will the D6 be great rather than good?  Is D6 vs 5160 a valid comparison?

No idea, more confused than ever, but the D6 will be a user so I'll find out.
As far as making knives are concerned I'll stick to the "butter" carbon steels for now 

[Steinar]

Abrasion resistance isn't the same as hardness, as you describe here. If you look at the composition of D6, you see a healthy amount of chromium and a ridiculous amount of carbon telling us this steel will have a lot of carbides (which increase abrasion resistance).

http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=D6%2C5160&ni=240,838&hrn=1&gm=0

Carbides increase edge holding/abrasion resistance and decreases toughness, to make a long story short.

Edit: Btw, wolfram and vanadium creates carbides too.

[Steinar]

Will the D6 be great rather than good?  Is D6 vs 5160 a valid comparison?

No idea, more confused than ever, but the D6 will be a user so I'll find out.
As far as making knives are concerned I'll stick to the "butter" carbon steels for now 

I would personally prefer a knife in 5160 over one in D6, since 5160 would be tougher and less prone to micro-chipping.

[Jors]

Maybe Iam getting older.
When younger I always wer hunding for the best and most expensive I could afford.

Recently my expensive pocket knive were confiscated at the airport because I forgot to take it out of my moon bag, my own fault. Lesson learned.

I took out my first pocket knife I bought as a you police officer about 33 years ago. It is a Victorinox knife with two blades. Simple design with brown plastic scales. Over the years i have grounded the big blade about 3 mm (1/8th) narrower to keep it razor sharp. The wear were reduced hundred fold when I started using a Lansky sharpening kit. I am afraid I wil not outlive this knife, unless I loose it or if it breaks.

In my personal opinion, Victorinox is not the best steel available, but it is soft enough to sharpen easily and hard enough to keep its edge reasonably long. It also does not rust easily, only if in contact with acid and so.

To replace this model wil cost me about $20.00. I can buy a similar model of better steel for $80.00. The cheaper one wil still be almost new in 30 years, as I look after my stuff. So for the $80.00, I would rather buy a cheaper knive, or two, a flashlight, and someting else. In South Africa, I have seen cheap chinese knives (locking blade with pakka wood scales)  that are selling for $5.00, and were just as sttrong and lasting.

You may differ from me, but I have done some thinking.

Prices are estimated against our currency.

Fixed blade knives:
My favorite shape or style is the Bowie and I prefer carbon steel, but I have no problems with 440c.
I will rather buy a carbon/440c bowie with a cheap design (full tang with scales riveted or pinned on) of say $40.00, than a hidden tang with a stag horn handle an nickel pommel and guard of $80.00 to $120.00. Even if the blade is damascus. That tang is the weak point. I have seen such knives brake on numerous occasions.

There are several beautiful designs of even $400.00 on the market. Will they really be worth the expense? Not in my opinion.

For multitools, I only buy Leatherman because of the warranty

[Outback in Idaho]

  Rather not even bother with a knife that doesn't take pride in the steel being use. Would I pay 2 or 3 timed more for S30V over 440A? Hell yes! Might take me a while to save up for it but I'll know the blade is going to last and will be dependable. Have a few CM154, it's okay, better than 440, yet S30V holds a clean smooth edge a long time. CM154 seems to be not as smooth, could be the grain on the ones I have.

  Lesser quality steel wold drastically change the price on a knife. Though I have stuff in 440 I don't carry it. It's available, but I carry better quality steel on me. Just got a Morakniv Garberg and know the steel isn't as good as what I prefer, although I'm willing to give it a chance based on their reputation and the warranty - not because a lot of the prestigious MTO members have one now. I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. Can I blame Corwyn for getting me involved in Scandi knives?


  Think the first fancy steel I obtained was in the Leatherman Charge TTi. Peeps try to goad me cause I pamper it and use it for cooking. The steel is great! I can cut all sorts of stuff and nothing sticks to the edge or gums it up ~ though I've not skinned an animal with it yet.
  Next got a Leatherman K503x knife of CM154 and I like it. Had planned on taking it on hikes and using the carabiner as a mounting point - but life changed, changed me, and I've not been the woodsman I once was in my 30's & 40's so it's not gotten to see much action past the urban areas.
  Have a Leatherman Skeletool CX that I traded a KF4 for, and I like that knife!! It used to spend most of the year inside the refrigerator door. it was used for everything cooking, cutting, slicing, spreading (not a good spreader point), and about the only thing that gummed up the pivots was kiwi fruit juices. That knife gets abused and I've not sharpened in in 2 maybe 3 years. So maybe I should hone it down on the Spyderco Triangle Sharpmaker? Not needed really, the edge, even though has some dried food stuff on it, is still quite sharp. Try that with 440C steel.


  One last edit: The S30V steel blade in the Charge TTi, I've not sharpened it in ... smurf ... I don't remember. It's edge is still stout!

[Dean51]

Ofcourse, Surgical steel is the best   

Ban this man   

Steel matters a lot but steel is only part of the knife buying decision. I'm not a steel snob, I'm a smurfing knife snob, I want it all in a knife.

A knife has to fit a set of requirements and if it doesn't check all the boxes, it's off the wish/buy list. I also won't buy from a company that doesn't list what steel they use. Surgical steel, stainless steel, 400 series, high carbon aren't steels they are marketing ploys.

1. The length as to be comfortable to carry in my pocket, for me that's 3.5 to 4” closed.
2. The weight has to carry comfortably. (no bricks allowed)
3. It has to feel comfortable in my hand.
4. Steel has to be 154CM or better. (stainless, I hate patina)
5. Pleasant to look at, it doesn't have to be fancy but. (no ugly knives need apply)
6. Flat ground and thin so it slices well. (sharpened pry bar zombie killers are out)
7. Good edge retention. (if it won't hold an edge for my uses, then it failed as a knife)
8. Traditional or modern traditional. (my grandfather would have to recognize it as a knife)
9. A good warranty against defects. (correct tool for the job kind of person, so that is all the warranty I need)
10. Slip joint or liner lock.
11. No unnecessary thickness from edge to spine.

The steels I have & use the most are 154CM/ATS34, CPM154, 14-4CrMo, S30V, D2 one M390 & one Lam.Cos.

As a stand alone blade I have no use for any Case steel, any of the 420's, 440A, 12C27,& Vic's x55CrMo14 etc.

Having said all that, more often than not I carry a Compact plus as a second clean knife. It complements the Skeletool CX nicely. My main knife handles all the heavy cutting like radiator hose & cardboard, while the Compact is kept clean.