Legal carry in New York

[kirk13]

There's a chance I might be visiting New York City in the new year. Can anyone tell me if there's any specific laws about what knives or tools can be carried?

[charlie fox]

Do not carry anything with an exposed pocket clip! A good 3” folder that cannot be “flicked” open should be okay, but I’d stick with a SAK of some flavor to be on the safe side.

[theonew]

Honestly to be safe I would just stick with a SAK. I've heard stories of cops holding on to the blade of a knife and trying to get it to "flick" open as they fumble around with it. If they can get it to open even once regardless of the ridiculous machinations involved it can be treated as a "gravity" knife which they then can arrest you for. And as mentioned above, do not carry any knife clipped to your pocket. Concealed carry only.

[kirk13]

That's great guys,thank you! I was looking at the idea of a Small Tinker or something of that nature anyway

[ironraven]

A ticket out of town?

There is honestly NO reason for me to go to , through, or near NYC, and if possible I would boycott any business based there.The "weapons" laws in NY state are a a nightmare, and the city (which runs the state as it's peasant vassal) is at least ten times worse. If a cop examines your knife and somehow can open it one handed, no matter how many times he tries and how convoluted his method is when he succeeds, you can go to jail because that means it's a "switchblade" or "gravity knife". There have been some rather infamous cases where the Buck 110 was classed as a "gravity knife" and the owner jailed. Even though pepper spray and mace, at least small containers, are clearly stated in the law to be LEGAL, people get arrested for carrying them pretty frequently.

I wouldn't bring anything other than MAYBE a 58mm SAK based off the amount of grief I got the one and only time I was there with a SAK and friends of mine who were there with SAKs or a Leatherman. My brother got hassled for a mini-maglight a few years ago- apparently, it's a billy club there. He left it there rather than put up with the BS. And he was still an EMT at the time, he was doing a transport. I'll let you ponder that, EMS in uniform and on the job being harassed for carrying a light that is less than 7" long. When he went as part of mutual aid for Sandy a year later, apparently there were guys hassled for having the basic tools of their trade, both EMS and fire.

NY STATE section 265.15 #4 reads..... "The possession by any person of any dagger, dirk, stiletto, dangerous knife or any other weapon, instrument, appliance or substance designed, made or adapted for use primarily as a weapon, is presumptive evidence of intent to use the same unlawfully against another. " In plain language, if it can be used as a weapon, and you aren't one of the rich and fabulous, you have it to use it as a weapon if the guy with the badge says you do. And the guy with the badge, which I've heard or read more than a few former NYPD officer call a "license to kill" or at least a "license to hurt", is going to be right until proven right in court, regardless of what the law says- state law says that a 4" knife is legal, but NYPD enforces a "four finger rule" where anything longer than THAT cop's four fingers are wide is illegal. There is also a law that sometimes is used that says 3" is the limit- they have many laws. They can make something stick.

[theonew]

I've lived here over 20 years and you'll be just fine carrying around a small tinker. In the very unlikely situation that you do get stopped and a cop asks why you have a knife, don't say something like, "To de-animate perps on the subway."  Though somehow I don't imagine that would have been your response anyway

Although I'm quite sure it has never been tried before, if you do get in trouble, there is always the defense

[watchandknife]

I work near 47th and 3rd and I’ve never see a cop flicking a knife open or stopping someone to investigate. Maybe because I’m in a less touristy part of town?

Pen clips look similar to pocket clips on a knife. Honestly as long as your not parading it around you’ll be fine especially if it’s a sak.

Whatever you do just don’t raise your voice to the officer or talk to them in a condescending tone and you’ll be fine.

I’ve used my SAKs in nypenn and all over Times Square and no issues.

[Don Pablo]

I might decide to leave the SAKs somewhere safe, and go walking around with a keychain light or piece of tissue paper clipped to my pocket to see what happens if a LEO sees the clip, but that's just me. 

[ThePeacent]

hell NY laws are absurd.
I've managed to open my Opinels a few times one handed, I guess they must be "switchblades" then   

[Aloha]

Was not aware NYC knife law were so strict.  Very interesting to hear knife laws from everywhere.   

[theonew]

What is a bit frustrating is that a bill passed both state legislative bodies with overwhelming support, I think only a handful of members voted against it, that clarified the law to define a gravity knife as exactly what it is, a knife with a button that allows a blade to open by the force of gravity. Knives that require you to open them by pushing on the blade, such as your basic one-hand openers, would then be explicitly legal to carry in the city. The governor vetoed the bill saying the language wasn't clear enough. It was reintroduced this year with new language, also passed both houses with overwhelming support and once again was vetoed by the governor

Kniferights.org has been an amazing champion of this bill but I somehow think even they are becoming disillusioned with New York politics

[Blackbeard]

Don't take any knife, here is my nightmare thread from 5 years ago:

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,39307.msg630636.html#msg630636

[G-Dizzle]

I went last year. I dont have time to type everything out right now but the short story is: take either a non locking blade or one that requires 2 steps to open like a Gerber MT. Carry everything completely concealed and dont carry somewhere you may be searched. If you have a Vic Spirit that should work too b/c it is impossible to “flip open” bc there is nowhere for them to grab the blade

[G-Dizzle]

Btw, i also got around this by carrying a case russlock. OHO once you learn how but there is no way you can flip it open, not even if you grab the blade with pliers. It is just too stiff

[G-Dizzle]

The Russlock is actually PERFECT for legally carrying a OHO locking folder there. It gets past all of the ridiculously stupid laws.

[ironraven]

Even if it is legal, cops rarely actually know the law. Thats why we have lawyers, who will recommend pleading to a crime you're not actually guilty of becuase it's faster and easier.

We don't live in a just society. We live in a legal one. To quote Comrade Beria, "Show me the man and I'll find you the crime." Every single adult in America could be charged with something no matter how bogus sounding, if the system really wants you in a cage. It could just be the cold meds making me cranky, but read your Orwell. We're getting there, if we already aren't. But read it while you still can.

[ThundahBeagle]

IronRaven, I concur.

I have said for years we are already there.

1984 -
-we willingly have viewscreens in our homes. If they are not the TV, then they are the phones. "They" don't have to "spy" on us. Many of us give it away willingly on Facebook
-Winston Smith works in an office writing revisionist history. This is accomplished online today. If you don't print and keep it, you could go back to a website days later and find slightly different content.
- government taking a priority role over family and individuals
-the idea of an "enemy of the day" and how that target shifts back and forth

Fahrenheit 451 -
- giant screens on the wall to view our alternate reality "family and friends"
-getting our news from those alternate reality friends
-government taking a priority role over family and individuals
- fireproof homes
-the drone that is a dog, but can also fly and revert back to a dog for ground pursuit...any of our drones today plus whatever Boston Scientific is working on at the moment...

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep -
- the human looking robot is really coming into its own now and in the immediate future

And you are right. This is not a society about justice...only about what you can prove, or popular opinion

[Smashie]

I went through this dance 15 years ago, it's not legal for you to be in possession of a knife as you aren't a US citizen and it makes no difference if the police know the law or not, they aren't the ones that decide on prosecutions.

My advice, don't bother as much as it will drive you insane.

Need a bottle opener? buy one of them. Just don't bother with the knife.

As others have said article 265 is so bloody convoluted with no clear definition of what a 'dangerous weapon' is.

Mark

[Blackbeard]

I went through this dance 15 years ago, it's not legal for you to be in possession of a knife as you aren't a US citizen and it makes no difference if the police know the law or not, they aren't the ones that decide on prosecutions.

My advice, don't bother as much as it will drive you insane.

Need a bottle opener? buy one of them. Just don't bother with the knife.

As others have said article 265 is so bloody convoluted with no clear definition of what a 'dangerous weapon' is.

Mark

 

It's just not worth the risk, if you somehow go through a metal detector at an event or get in an altercation, even a hidden knife could land you in jail, which was the most miserable experience of my life, cost me a lot of money & time going back and forth to NYC to get my possesions, court appearances and community service, trying to keep people here from avoiding what I went through cause it could scar you for life.

[ironraven]

I have a possible solution? Kirk, what is so pressing you must be in NYC?

Come to New England- the real New England, not New York's cronies, but Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine. We're like New York, with out all the extra people and ugly buildings and pollution. Once you're out of the airport, we don't care whats in your pocket so long as you aren't stupid with it and it's less than six feet long. We might ask you to take off a sword if you wear it on your belt, and places like movie theatres and dance halls get fussy if you carry one across your back, but if we can't see it, it's wee enough we don't care. Unless you're drunk. And my, what a fetching trench coat you have! We don't even care if you have a funny accent and weird ID, so long as you drive on the RIGHT side of the road, as in starboard. Many of us will even take Euros and Pounds at a 1 to 1 equivalency with the US Dollar- we're taking a loss, but we do love our friends from across the pond.

Is it a tryst? Nothing says romantic like Vermont to a New Yorker!  Business deal? Why not go where the big boys went, Bretton Woods- cut a world class deal while looking like a pro, then hit the slopes. Or maybe you just want to cut loose, go nuts- there is a whole state full of Mainiacs where no one will say a thing so long as you don't decapitate a statue or grope a moose.

(Sorry Canada, you don't have funny money, but it is for loonies. No special deal.)

(And serious thread was getting way to serious. Partially my fault. But all of the above is true.)

[Butch]

Ok, contry hick red neck here, but just wondering why on this good green earth anybody would subject themselves to New York, Chitown or LA............maybe a few others thrown in..........gives me cold shivers just  letting the thought cross what little mind I have.

[kirk13]

I have a possible solution? Kirk, what is so pressing you must be in NYC?

Come to New England- the real New England, not New York's cronies, but Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine. We're like New York, with out all the extra people and ugly buildings and pollution. Once you're out of the airport, we don't care whats in your pocket so long as you aren't stupid with it and it's less than six feet long. We might ask you to take off a sword if you wear it on your belt, and places like movie theatres and dance halls get fussy if you carry one across your back, but if we can't see it, it's wee enough we don't care. Unless you're drunk. And my, what a fetching trench coat you have! We don't even care if you have a funny accent and weird ID, so long as you drive on the RIGHT side of the road, as in starboard. Many of us will even take Euros and Pounds at a 1 to 1 equivalency with the US Dollar- we're taking a loss, but we do love our friends from across the pond.

Is it a tryst? Nothing says romantic like Vermont to a New Yorker!  Business deal? Why not go where the big boys went, Bretton Woods- cut a world class deal while looking like a pro, then hit the slopes. Or maybe you just want to cut loose, go nuts- there is a whole state full of Mainiacs where no one will say a thing so long as you don't decapitate a statue or grope a moose.

(Sorry Canada, you don't have funny money, but it is for loonies. No special deal.)

(And serious thread was getting way to serious. Partially my fault. But all of the above is true.)

Tbh Ironraven,New England would appeal to me a lot more. I going to visit a someone rather than to see a somewhere if that makes sense.

Funnily enough,the bit that sealed the deal was that there's a SR71 on board the USS Intrepid 

[ironraven]

Funnily enough,the bit that sealed the deal was that there's a SR71 on board the USS Intrepid 

Fair enough. The Intrepid collection and the leggy French lady in the harbor have almost talked me into it a couple times.

Almost.

[Blackbeard]

I try to avoid the city as much as possible these days, but sometimes go to a concert at the beacon theate. times square and midtown have become huge tourist traps, you can barely walk down the street around there even at 2 am, the mass of people swarming everywhere is hard to believe, if you don't like crowds its best to avoid this area, its pretty insane

[theonew]

The closest I've come to trouble having lived here over 20 years was when I was working at an office near Grand Central. I had to re-route some cables and move some servers around, so I brought a heavy duty fixed blade in a sheepsfoot pattern to cut wallboard and ceiling tiles. It wasn't very long but was fairly thick in its kydex sheath. At the end of the day, after all the secretaries had left, the head partner asked me if I could take a patent application to the post office for express mailing. He was an older gentleman in his late seventies and was very apologetic as that really wasn't something I should have been asked to do but the case had to be mailed with a receipt that day. So I agreed and headed over to the post office next to Grand Central. As I'm walking in, there was a cop stationed near the door and he immediately started staring at me. I thought that was weird as I don't usually stand out much in a crowd. At first I was worried that maybe he thought I looked like someone who was wanted. In any case I had a few different stops to make in the post office and had to fill out some forms. Every time I look around he was right there staring at me and following me around. It got to the point where I almost said, 'Hey what the smurf?' But that is just something you do NOT do. So in any case, I get the dang thing mailed and walk out of the post office with him following me to the door. As I'm walking back to the office I look down and notice that the fixed blade knife is printing very obviously through my pocket    I may have dodged a bullet that day but I'm quite sure that knife wouldn't have been found illegal had he stopped me but then again maybe it would have