Mora Club

[styx]

Nice idea. No way you'll get choked by snagging a branch now

Not to death anyway 

Well that death part can be a bit of a downer

Yeah. That can really ruin your day.

Nobody likes a dirt nap.

Tell me about it. And when you wake up dazed and confused, everyone just keeps gawking at you like they've seen a ghost

Or a zombie.

Yup. Lucky for me, I don't live in a part of the world where Twinkies are popular

[ducttapetech]

Nice idea. No way you'll get choked by snagging a branch now

Not to death anyway 

Well that death part can be a bit of a downer

Yeah. That can really ruin your day.

Nobody likes a dirt nap.

Tell me about it. And when you wake up dazed and confused, everyone just keeps gawking at you like they've seen a ghost

Or a zombie.

Yup. Lucky for me, I don't live in a part of the world where Twinkies are popular

[Spartan19]

 

[Grathr]

Nice!

[Zed]

Cool pic Spartan 

[styx]

Cool pic Spartan 

+1


On another note I've been reading and researching more on scandi grind and me thinks I'll be doing something that a lot of folks will find as heresy - knock off the shoulders of the Mora Classic. There has been a lot of debate over the years over why the Mora is so effective and some suggest that it would be even better once we actually finished the product we buy (the low cost implying they are unfinished) and sharpened it properly. Now that properly for some means going scandivex, for some full convex, and for me it sure seems like an interesting way to go.
What sparked this is that I found some old documents where I was noting my thoughts on performance between the Classic #1 and an Opinel No.8

[Grathr]

Cool pic Spartan 

+1


On another note I've been reading and researching more on scandi grind and me thinks I'll be doing something that a lot of folks will find as heresy - knock off the shoulders of the Mora Classic. There has been a lot of debate over the years over why the Mora is so effective and some suggest that it would be even better once we actually finished the product we buy (the low cost implying they are unfinished) and sharpened it properly. Now that properly for some means going scandivex, for some full convex, and for me it sure seems like an interesting way to go.
What sparked this is that I found some old documents where I was noting my thoughts on performance between the Classic #1 and an Opinel No.8

I watched a video some time ago by an american knifemaker (was it you that posted it?) that claimed that the scandi grind on the moras originally was ment as a half finished grind, so that the buyer could put their own grind on it after buying it.

[styx]

Cool pic Spartan 

+1


On another note I've been reading and researching more on scandi grind and me thinks I'll be doing something that a lot of folks will find as heresy - knock off the shoulders of the Mora Classic. There has been a lot of debate over the years over why the Mora is so effective and some suggest that it would be even better once we actually finished the product we buy (the low cost implying they are unfinished) and sharpened it properly. Now that properly for some means going scandivex, for some full convex, and for me it sure seems like an interesting way to go.
What sparked this is that I found some old documents where I was noting my thoughts on performance between the Classic #1 and an Opinel No.8

I watched a video some time ago by an american knifemaker (was it you that posted it?) that claimed that the scandi grind on the moras originally was ment as a half finished grind, so that the buyer could put their own grind on it after buying it.

Could be. I think it might have been Murray Carter.

When I looked at my old notes and thought about the last couple of weeks (since I'm home now, I do most of the cooking and prefer my knives over the kitchen knives) Opinel and SAKs did perform better in pure cutting performance due to a lack of wedging. Moras cut extremely well with their thin stock and holy smurf angle (about 11° per side if I recall correctly) but I have to wonder if I might be missing out on peak performance as an all around knife.

Now the Scandi grind or single bevel saber or what ever one wishes to call it has a reputation for being an excellent grind for woodworking and ease of sharpening. Oddly enough most of my knives end up with a slight convex due to rather quick sharpening in hand and no longer using jigs, systems or even setting down the stone (might even put up a Spyderco Sharpmaker up for a trade). It could be argued that convex is harder to maintain or that scandi requires more time since more metal needs to be taken off and I won't go into that as I can't prove either one.
What really has the gears in my head turning is the uproar of scandivex. Can't question the durability of it, but the logic sounds plausible. Biggest issue with it is the logical fallacies (read: pure garbage) that many of the largest proponents of it have said (read: spewed out) in regards to other knife related topics.

[Grathr]

Cool pic Spartan 

+1


On another note I've been reading and researching more on scandi grind and me thinks I'll be doing something that a lot of folks will find as heresy - knock off the shoulders of the Mora Classic. There has been a lot of debate over the years over why the Mora is so effective and some suggest that it would be even better once we actually finished the product we buy (the low cost implying they are unfinished) and sharpened it properly. Now that properly for some means going scandivex, for some full convex, and for me it sure seems like an interesting way to go.
What sparked this is that I found some old documents where I was noting my thoughts on performance between the Classic #1 and an Opinel No.8

I watched a video some time ago by an american knifemaker (was it you that posted it?) that claimed that the scandi grind on the moras originally was ment as a half finished grind, so that the buyer could put their own grind on it after buying it.

Could be. I think it might have been Murray Carter.

When I looked at my old notes and thought about the last couple of weeks (since I'm home now, I do most of the cooking and prefer my knives over the kitchen knives) Opinel and SAKs did perform better in pure cutting performance due to a lack of wedging. Moras cut extremely well with their thin stock and holy smurf angle (about 11° per side if I recall correctly) but I have to wonder if I might be missing out on peak performance as an all around knife.

Now the Scandi grind or single bevel saber or what ever one wishes to call it has a reputation for being an excellent grind for woodworking and ease of sharpening. Oddly enough most of my knives end up with a slight convex due to rather quick sharpening in hand and no longer using jigs, systems or even setting down the stone (might even put up a Spyderco Sharpmaker up for a trade). It could be argued that convex is harder to maintain or that scandi requires more time since more metal needs to be taken off and I won't go into that as I can't prove either one.
What really has the gears in my head turning is the uproar of scandivex. Can't question the durability of it, but the logic sounds plausible. Biggest issue with it is the logical fallacies (read: pure garbage) that many of the largest proponents of it have said (read: spewed out) in regards to other knife related topics.

Im not familiar with the scandivex grind. Is it a flat convex grind or just a rounding of the shoulders of a scandi grind?
A picture/figure would be great. 😊

[ducttapetech]

I am curious also. But I am thinking, if you rounded the shoulders or curved the grind itself or both, wouldn't it be a saber grind or close to it?

[styx]

Some would already be pulling their hair out because of my terminology.

Technically a Scandi grind is a zero saber grind due to the lack of a secondary bevel at the cutting edge. Spyderco has grinds very well explained so I'll attach a photo of their short and sweet explanations as a reference.
So the scandivex, for lack of a better word, would fall between a full convex and a flat saber grind as it is now commonly done in the industry. A great example of it would be the BRKT Bushcrafter (pic attached), although I'm sure the same people who would pull their hair out would now hit me with large, heavy objects as this can also be described as a flat convex grind, convex saber grind and probably a few more names I'm not aware of.
A lot of this came from differentiating between a full height convex grind and a partial convex grind. Another drop of confusion came when some custom makers started selling proprietary grinds, probably in an effort to get away from the notion of having sharpened prybars with a convex edge which came from many people modifying their BK2s, ESEE-5s and similar knives with a convex edge to the height of the primary bevel (reference pic included).

To be perfectly honest I have no idea what I'll get with this experiment or if I'll just ruin a perfectly good knife. Since I won't be touching the edge, my suspicion is that the knife will perform somewhat better on deeper cuts on stiffer materials but will keep its performance in shallow cuts even though the edge might get a bit harder to control in regards of biting too deep.

[ducttapetech]

I think it will become a better slicer, but I think you are right about losing some control in wood processing. It might want to bite to much. However, with a little practice,  it might be excellent at wood processing.  My SOG Vulcan is a hollow grind and it makes feather sticks and carves like it was made for it. Not fine cravings,  but spoons, forks, pot hangers and things of that nature. So I guess it is what you are used to using is what I am trying to say.

[ducttapetech]

I have an old number 2 that I might try what you are talking about doing Styx. I keep mauling this over in my head and I think you might be onto something. But I am thinking it would be great on a smaller Mora, like a 2/0 or a #1. Probably make one hell of a neck knife.

[styx]

For me it was between the Companion and Classic #1 since I have only those two. Easy decision in that regards.

Another point of discussion this could bring up is the general popularity of scandi ground blades. It is no secret I admire the LT Wright Genesis as a grail, but oddly enough I'm leaning more towards the full flat ground version than the scandi. Only huge caveat here is the way we use knives, i.e. are there more woodcrafting tasks or are the tasks very widespread and since all grinds can accomplish the same tasks with various degrees of difficulty, how much of an impact can tasks that rely more on brute force (like batoning) have in the choices of grinds.
Sure it is hard to picture Mora Classic being pushed into such a task, especially since most people will have a hatchet, axe or large knife. However it does get tricker when going with a minimal tool loadout since the big tasks aren't foreseen as a huge need.
To bring you closer to my current mindset you can take a little thought experiment:
You're hiking from point A to point B in a familiar ecosystem. You can have what you can carry on your back, belt and pockets. The hike is organized in such a way that it allows for a comfortable pace, stops to have a drink, get some food (fishing, small game hunting and/or what you brought with you) and set up a shelter that you are hiking with (again your preferred system) but you'll still be on the move for 5 days. What is your tool load out and is every gram of that equipment really necessary? If you want to make things more complicated, you can restrict yourself with a weight limit too. 

[ducttapetech]

For me it was between the Companion and Classic #1 since I have only those two. Easy decision in that regards.

Another point of discussion this could bring up is the general popularity of scandi ground blades. It is no secret I admire the LT Wright Genesis as a grail, but oddly enough I'm leaning more towards the full flat ground version than the scandi. Only huge caveat here is the way we use knives, i.e. are there more woodcrafting tasks or are the tasks very widespread and since all grinds can accomplish the same tasks with various degrees of difficulty, how much of an impact can tasks that rely more on brute force (like batoning) have in the choices of grinds.
Sure it is hard to picture Mora Classic being pushed into such a task, especially since most people will have a hatchet, axe or large knife. However it does get tricker when going with a minimal tool loadout since the big tasks aren't foreseen as a huge need.
To bring you closer to my current mindset you can take a little thought experiment:
You're hiking from point A to point B in a familiar ecosystem. You can have what you can carry on your back, belt and pockets. The hike is organized in such a way that it allows for a comfortable pace, stops to have a drink, get some food (fishing, small game hunting and/or what you brought with you) and set up a shelter that you are hiking with (again your preferred system) but you'll still be on the move for 5 days. What is your tool load out and is every gram of that equipment really necessary? If you want to make things more complicated, you can restrict yourself with a weight limit too. 

I have thought about this often and sometimes do. If I am going out to set up a base camp, then scout from there, I am a tad more tool heavy. Knife, saw and hawk. Then when I got out from the camp, I have very little. Backpacking or day long hikes, not so tool heavy. I can get buy easily with just Mora Bushcraft Black. I actually rarely baton even if I just have my knife. When I do, rarely anything above 2 inches for fire prep or say, carving a spoon. Most of the time I can get a fire without feather sticks. Good to keep practice though.
I find it interesting that you are thinking full flat. Nothing wrong at all with that mind you. But I have never much cared for them. I seems like I could never master them. A hollow grind, no problem. But I am pretty sure that is because I grew up with hollow grind hunting knives. Scandi grind for some reason just works for me. First time I used one, it just spoke to me.

[Grathr]

Ok. I think I got it.
I can imagine the knife will become a better slicer if you round off the shoulders. But like Ducttapetech said, you might sacrefice some fine control, then again you might not. It might just be different and need a little practice to regain the fine control.
Question is, will you notice the difference on such a thin blade as a classic no1?

Looking forward to see the result.

[Grathr]

For me it was between the Companion and Classic #1 since I have only those two. Easy decision in that regards.

Another point of discussion this could bring up is the general popularity of scandi ground blades. It is no secret I admire the LT Wright Genesis as a grail, but oddly enough I'm leaning more towards the full flat ground version than the scandi. Only huge caveat here is the way we use knives, i.e. are there more woodcrafting tasks or are the tasks very widespread and since all grinds can accomplish the same tasks with various degrees of difficulty, how much of an impact can tasks that rely more on brute force (like batoning) have in the choices of grinds.
Sure it is hard to picture Mora Classic being pushed into such a task, especially since most people will have a hatchet, axe or large knife. However it does get tricker when going with a minimal tool loadout since the big tasks aren't foreseen as a huge need.
To bring you closer to my current mindset you can take a little thought experiment:
You're hiking from point A to point B in a familiar ecosystem. You can have what you can carry on your back, belt and pockets. The hike is organized in such a way that it allows for a comfortable pace, stops to have a drink, get some food (fishing, small game hunting and/or what you brought with you) and set up a shelter that you are hiking with (again your preferred system) but you'll still be on the move for 5 days. What is your tool load out and is every gram of that equipment really necessary? If you want to make things more complicated, you can restrict yourself with a weight limit too. 

I have thought about this often and sometimes do. If I am going out to set up a base camp, then scout from there, I am a tad more tool heavy. Knife, saw and hawk. Then when I got out from the camp, I have very little. Backpacking or day long hikes, not so tool heavy. I can get buy easily with just Mora Bushcraft Black. I actually rarely baton even if I just have my knife. When I do, rarely anything above 2 inches for fire prep or say, carving a spoon. Most of the time I can get a fire without feather sticks. Good to keep practice though.
I find it interesting that you are thinking full flat. Nothing wrong at all with that mind you. But I have never much cared for them. I seems like I could never master them. A hollow grind, no problem. But I am pretty sure that is because I grew up with hollow grind hunting knives. Scandi grind for some reason just works for me. First time I used one, it just spoke to me.

The one knife to solve everything.
Isnt that why we accumulate knives? The search for that amazing knife that will do everything?

If you are batoning a lot the convex grind is better than the scandi, no doubt.
In my limited experience, convex ground knives are what I call "quick and dirty" knives. They eat wood in big chunks and can take a beating, but can be a bit of a pain for finer stuff. But that might just be because I grew up with scandis and have been using them all my life.

Id probably bring a scandi and a light hatchet.

[ducttapetech]

I am not 100% if I want to find the knife that can do everything. I mean, once you found it, what would be the point of living after that? Sure we still have beer...

[Zed]

I am not 100% if I want to find the knife that can do everything. I mean, once you found it, what would be the point of living after that? Sure we still have beer...

  but beer is nice 

[ducttapetech]

I am not 100% if I want to find the knife that can do everything. I mean, once you found it, what would be the point of living after that? Sure we still have beer...

  but beer is nice 

True dat! 
Cheers gentlemen!

[Grathr]

 

[Zed]

No beer so I'll hit the Rum with little Gaute 

[styx]

Ok. I think I got it.
I can imagine the knife will become a better slicer if you round off the shoulders. But like Ducttapetech said, you might sacrefice some fine control, then again you might not. It might just be different and need a little practice to regain the fine control.
Question is, will you notice the difference on such a thin blade as a classic no1?

Looking forward to see the result.

I might notice it on one thing - carrots. For me they are the best indicator of wedging. Also maybe on cross grain cuts on wood.

For me it was between the Companion and Classic #1 since I have only those two. Easy decision in that regards.

Another point of discussion this could bring up is the general popularity of scandi ground blades. It is no secret I admire the LT Wright Genesis as a grail, but oddly enough I'm leaning more towards the full flat ground version than the scandi. Only huge caveat here is the way we use knives, i.e. are there more woodcrafting tasks or are the tasks very widespread and since all grinds can accomplish the same tasks with various degrees of difficulty, how much of an impact can tasks that rely more on brute force (like batoning) have in the choices of grinds.
Sure it is hard to picture Mora Classic being pushed into such a task, especially since most people will have a hatchet, axe or large knife. However it does get tricker when going with a minimal tool loadout since the big tasks aren't foreseen as a huge need.
To bring you closer to my current mindset you can take a little thought experiment:
You're hiking from point A to point B in a familiar ecosystem. You can have what you can carry on your back, belt and pockets. The hike is organized in such a way that it allows for a comfortable pace, stops to have a drink, get some food (fishing, small game hunting and/or what you brought with you) and set up a shelter that you are hiking with (again your preferred system) but you'll still be on the move for 5 days. What is your tool load out and is every gram of that equipment really necessary? If you want to make things more complicated, you can restrict yourself with a weight limit too. 

I have thought about this often and sometimes do. If I am going out to set up a base camp, then scout from there, I am a tad more tool heavy. Knife, saw and hawk. Then when I got out from the camp, I have very little. Backpacking or day long hikes, not so tool heavy. I can get buy easily with just Mora Bushcraft Black. I actually rarely baton even if I just have my knife. When I do, rarely anything above 2 inches for fire prep or say, carving a spoon. Most of the time I can get a fire without feather sticks. Good to keep practice though.
I find it interesting that you are thinking full flat. Nothing wrong at all with that mind you. But I have never much cared for them. I seems like I could never master them. A hollow grind, no problem. But I am pretty sure that is because I grew up with hollow grind hunting knives. Scandi grind for some reason just works for me. First time I used one, it just spoke to me.

The one knife to solve everything.
Isnt that why we accumulate knives? The search for that amazing knife that will do everything?

If you are batoning a lot the convex grind is better than the scandi, no doubt.
In my limited experience, convex ground knives are what I call "quick and dirty" knives. They eat wood in big chunks and can take a beating, but can be a bit of a pain for finer stuff. But that might just be because I grew up with scandis and have been using them all my life.

Id probably bring a scandi and a light hatchet.

Actually it is more about my obsession with getting the most out of everything. If I'm lifting in running shoes, I'm leaving kilograms out there in the ether. If I'm drinking for the sake of drinking and going with beer, I'm leaving promilles out there in the ether. If I'm relying on a tool for a specific niche and not giving it the environment for optimal performance, I'm doing that tool a disservice as any lackluster part of its performance is user error. At least that is my take on it.

I am not 100% if I want to find the knife that can do everything. I mean, once you found it, what would be the point of living after that? Sure we still have beer...

I'm more of a whiskey man. And finding a knife that can do everything has been done. Look at any knife with a somewhat decent edge and chances are that you can do everything you need to with it, given some thought as to how to achieve that. But finding a knife that can live in a backpack because it can take on lighter woodcrafting chores, spread peanut butter, gut fish, do food prep and not get messed up by quick and dirty "touch ups" is the current goal.
Would I say that is the best knife for everything? Hell no. Can't open a can, a bottle of beer and certainly won't survive those "hold my beer and watch this" moments. There are a lot better knives for that application out there. Cold Steel SRK springs to mind oddly fast

[theonew]

I knocked the shoulder off of my carbon clipper and also sharpen it on three angles which makes it convex and I can attest that it makes a rather noticeable difference in the wedging department. This is our kitchen utility knife and I use it a lot on cardboard and plastic and rounding the shoulders definitely increases the performance. Also I might add this knife really holds an edge well. It gets beaten like a rented mule and even when it becomes dull it will still cut fairly well

[Zed]

I knocked the shoulder off of my carbon clipper and also sharpen it on three angles which makes it convex and I can attest that it makes a rather noticeable difference in the wedging department. This is our kitchen utility knife and I use it a lot on cardboard and plastic and rounding the shoulders definitely increases the performance. Also I might add this knife really holds an edge well. It gets beaten like a rented mule and even when it becomes dull it will still cut fairly well

(Image removed from quote.)

Nice job mate  this is how little Gaute turned out and it cuts really well ,although I do like a convex grind but usually on bigger chopping type knives 

[theonew]

Yikes, that pic cut my eyeball just looking at it

[ducttapetech]

Nice work you two!

[styx]

I knocked the shoulder off of my carbon clipper and also sharpen it on three angles which makes it convex and I can attest that it makes a rather noticeable difference in the wedging department. This is our kitchen utility knife and I use it a lot on cardboard and plastic and rounding the shoulders definitely increases the performance. Also I might add this knife really holds an edge well. It gets beaten like a rented mule and even when it becomes dull it will still cut fairly well

(Image removed from quote.)

I knocked the shoulder off of my carbon clipper and also sharpen it on three angles which makes it convex and I can attest that it makes a rather noticeable difference in the wedging department. This is our kitchen utility knife and I use it a lot on cardboard and plastic and rounding the shoulders definitely increases the performance. Also I might add this knife really holds an edge well. It gets beaten like a rented mule and even when it becomes dull it will still cut fairly well

(Image removed from quote.)

Nice job mate  this is how little Gaute turned out and it cuts really well ,although I do like a convex grind but usually on bigger chopping type knives 

Glad to see you 2 are getting good results

[Zed]

I knocked the shoulder off of my carbon clipper and also sharpen it on three angles which makes it convex and I can attest that it makes a rather noticeable difference in the wedging department. This is our kitchen utility knife and I use it a lot on cardboard and plastic and rounding the shoulders definitely increases the performance. Also I might add this knife really holds an edge well. It gets beaten like a rented mule and even when it becomes dull it will still cut fairly well

(Image removed from quote.)

I knocked the shoulder off of my carbon clipper and also sharpen it on three angles which makes it convex and I can attest that it makes a rather noticeable difference in the wedging department. This is our kitchen utility knife and I use it a lot on cardboard and plastic and rounding the shoulders definitely increases the performance. Also I might add this knife really holds an edge well. It gets beaten like a rented mule and even when it becomes dull it will still cut fairly well

(Image removed from quote.)

Nice job mate  this is how little Gaute turned out and it cuts really well ,although I do like a convex grind but usually on bigger chopping type knives 

Glad to see you 2 are getting good results

There pretty easy to sharpen ,although little Gaute took some work as had been well loved before 

[Grathr]

I knocked the shoulder off of my carbon clipper and also sharpen it on three angles which makes it convex and I can attest that it makes a rather noticeable difference in the wedging department. This is our kitchen utility knife and I use it a lot on cardboard and plastic and rounding the shoulders definitely increases the performance. Also I might add this knife really holds an edge well. It gets beaten like a rented mule and even when it becomes dull it will still cut fairly well

(Image removed from quote.)

I knocked the shoulder off of my carbon clipper and also sharpen it on three angles which makes it convex and I can attest that it makes a rather noticeable difference in the wedging department. This is our kitchen utility knife and I use it a lot on cardboard and plastic and rounding the shoulders definitely increases the performance. Also I might add this knife really holds an edge well. It gets beaten like a rented mule and even when it becomes dull it will still cut fairly well

(Image removed from quote.)

Nice job mate  this is how little Gaute turned out and it cuts really well ,although I do like a convex grind but usually on bigger chopping type knives 

Glad to see you 2 are getting good results

There pretty easy to sharpen ,although little Gaute took some work as had been well loved before 

Nice work, both of you!