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Been doing some work in the Wiki 15635

Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,427
Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #300 on: May 29, 2019, 02:45:12 PM »
Huntsman, I was just merely asking for background on the sakwiki approach... ie, why no soecific mention or page on the model 1908... Not only did it have the clip point blade, but the screw driver tool is different...

Ulli’s soldier evolution pic is to the point in terms of milestones but does not mention the model numbers...

Another basis for the query, is I was asked in a discussion on the local Indonesian SAK grp about this as well, when there are alot of references to the specific model 1908...
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,427
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #301 on: May 29, 2019, 02:47:35 PM »
Oh here’s the edited Wenger Soldat pic...

Global Moderator No Life Club Posts: 2,421
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #302 on: May 31, 2019, 01:37:25 AM »
I updated the 1890 Soldier page to really make clear the evolution of the 1890 model through the 1901 and 1908 variations
https://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Soldier+1890

This was a good suggestion and improvement - Thanks Jaya

- As always comments/feedback/requests welcome

Hoping to get onto the catalogues next and finish off updating the Battle Series
No Life Club Posts: 2,070
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #303 on: June 01, 2019, 09:53:15 PM »
Maybe interesting for the Wiki:
Wenger Porsche including paperwork

Zombie Apprentice Posts: 12,739
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #304 on: June 01, 2019, 11:05:07 PM »
:ahhh

Buy now or regret later
No Life Club Posts: 2,070
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #305 on: June 01, 2019, 11:18:53 PM »
 :tu:
Global Moderator No Life Club Posts: 2,421
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #306 on: June 11, 2019, 04:45:01 AM »
Maybe interesting for the Wiki: Wenger Porsche including paperwork

It was   :tu:  ...... https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Wenger+Porsche+Design+Series    :D
The page was also a bit messed up - So I fixed it!

Mauser variant also added - Thanks Meccy
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 07:23:49 AM by Huntsman »
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 12,739
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #307 on: June 11, 2019, 06:45:56 AM »
:salute:

Good job :tu:

Buy now or regret later
No Life Club Posts: 3,105
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #308 on: June 11, 2019, 08:58:47 AM »
Great page Huntsman.  :like:
Hero Member Posts: 723
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #309 on: June 26, 2019, 07:00:00 AM »
The confusion arises because the SAK collecting community - the American community in particular - over the years has come up with what I call "collector's names" to refer to certain models. In almost all cases, this is done when the model either didn't have an official name (as was typical prior to the mid 1970s) or where it's official name was subsequently recycled onto another knife. These names are typically derived from either their 91mm equivalents (e.g. Huntsman Small) or from names found in catalogs from other countries. The SIMCO Canadian catalogs especially have contributed several "collector's names".

The knife we call the "Artisan" (136k, aka 84mm Fieldmaster) was sold in the US as the "Craftsman" almost exclusively. We use the Artisan name (French for Craftsman, btw) from the SIMCO to avoid confusion with the 91mm models of the same name. I have a several of these NIB - the boxes all say "Craftsman".

This is back from 2014...but perhaps this clears up some of the Craftsman 136ka issues regarding the use of 'Artisan'.  Perhaps since jazzbass said it more than 5 years ago, there's a chance some will believe it's true.

I was actually looking for something else when I found this...related somewhat.  I have a theory that the actual 50 Master Craftsman knives ordered by NASA in '78 were the fish scaler version.  #5044 (US) referenced in the NASA letter may cross reference the 1.47 93 version.  The 1976 dealer catalog may support the theory too.
Global Moderator No Life Club Posts: 2,421
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #310 on: June 27, 2019, 04:04:00 AM »
^^^ Great find KK - I think most of us acknowledge that JB is the highest of the higher authorities !!   ;)
Also I think SAKWiki editors have also been guilty of inventing a name every now and again !

I gotta admit I am finding this name re-using; different names for the same models; different names in different markets;  and 'made up names' thing to be getting more than a little frustrating.  :pok:
I know I shouldn't as the situation has evolved over many decades and has only come about as the world is shrinking and we now have collectors interested in SAKs from years ago that were only ever conceived as working tools/pocket knives for sale in a certain geography!

That is a really interesting theory about the NASA Craftsmen though - So you reckon NASA bought and sent up the six layer model that we now call the Craftsman
For sure  ..... In the 76 dealer catalogue the six layer one is indeed called the Master Craftsman - And then you look at the 1982 catalogue and its called the Craftsman ....... Grrrrrr - see what I mean !
However I am a little sceptical of this theory as the model that ended up as the "Space Shuttle'' model - For sure is five layers and I would have thought that model matched the one NASA bought?  ??? - Thoughts   :think:

Anyway updating the Craftsmen pages is probably bubbled to the top of the Wiki do list. Will put a post here when it's done.
Also I am due one of my big Wiki update posts now as a lot has happened since the last one!
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 08:25:27 AM by Huntsman »
No Life Club Posts: 3,105
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #311 on: June 27, 2019, 09:44:51 AM »
Not handled this sample yet (on reserve for me), but here’s a Master Craftsman with chisel back tool but no hook, so it appears there are early versions with this configuration. Hook was introduced around 1991 but not sure when the chisel was introduced.  :dunno:
Hero Member Posts: 723
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #312 on: June 27, 2019, 06:15:25 PM »
^^^ Great find KK - I think most of us acknowledge that JB is the highest of the higher authorities !!   ;)
Also I think SAKWiki editors have also been guilty of inventing a name every now and again !

I gotta admit I am finding this name re-using; different names for the same models; different names in different markets;  and 'made up names' thing to be getting more than a little frustrating.  :pok:
I know I shouldn't as the situation has evolved over many decades and has only come about as the world is shrinking and we now have collectors interested in SAKs from years ago that were only ever conceived as working tools/pocket knives for sale in a certain geography!
I gotta agree. Just wish I read this earlier instead of having to figure it out (mostly) on my own!  :facepalm:

I do think the 'made up names' should be listed just like that...'Artisan' or 'Small Fieldmaster'...italics or some such indicator.  But since the wiki is somewhat name-based, I think there should be references and cross-links for *everything*... all variations under said name.


That is a really interesting theory about the NASA Craftsmen though - So you reckon NASA bought and sent up the six layer model that we now call the Craftsman
For sure  ..... In the 76 dealer catalogue the six layer one is indeed called the Master Craftsman - And then you look at the 1982 catalogue and its called the Craftsman ....... Grrrrrr - see what I mean !
However I am a little sceptical of this theory as the model that ended up as the "Space Shuttle'' model - For sure is five layers and I would have thought that model matched the one NASA bought?  ??? - Thoughts   :think:

Anyway updating the Craftsmen pages is probably bubbled to the top of the Wiki do list. Will put a post here when it's done.
Also I am due one of my big Wiki update posts now as a lot has happened since the last one!

Just another crazy theory to test. But as I do my chronology, I always question *everything* known first...I've learned a LOT by needing to 'prove' every single note I make.

There are other reasons that support the theory. The Astronauts are named such right at the same time that the Craftsman line is 'upgraded' with pliers.  I think the coincidence is hard to ignore...

Not handled this sample yet (on reserve for me), but here’s a Master Craftsman with chisel back tool but no hook, so it appears there are early versions with this configuration. Hook was introduced around 1991 but not sure when the chisel was introduced.  :dunno:

The chisel was the last tool added in the late '85 early '86 range, among the other c. '85 changes. Yours is a sample past c. '87, since it has the bevel past the eye on the awl tip. Without seeing it, I would bet that the main blade tang has a big V Victorinox.  So this knife is from the broad range from '87 right to '91 and I think is officially an Astronaut model because of the date.
No Life Club Posts: 3,105
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #313 on: June 28, 2019, 06:35:27 AM »
Thanks for the nicely summarized feedback on this topic kamakiri  :hatsoff:
Full Member Posts: 147
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #314 on: June 28, 2019, 12:42:43 PM »
I have a theory that the actual 50 Master Craftsman knives ordered by NASA in '78 were the fish scaler version.  #5044 (US) referenced in the NASA letter may cross reference the 1.47 93 version.
The book by Derek Jackson (pages 183-185 in the third edition; other pages in older editions) has a nice story about one of these SAKs getting used on a 1983 mission. It includes the attached image of the actual SAK.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 12:48:20 PM by MiniChamp »
No Life Club Posts: 3,105
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #315 on: June 28, 2019, 03:29:12 PM »
Looks 5 layers to me. Also apparent Letter confirms #5044...fascinating story  :like:
Hero Member Posts: 723
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #316 on: June 28, 2019, 07:30:06 PM »
I've seen the documents and pictures.  I'm just not sure that the original 50 ordered were used on the '83 mission.  Say they originally ordered the 6 layer knife and somewhere in-between NASA thought to ditch the fish scaler for weight savings. When the knife is (re)issued circa '86, it was given a new name to celebrate the actual model used in space.  The main support for the theory is that the 5 layer version isn't seen in any of the US printed catalogs available from that time. Would be nice to find the #5044 link.

Hero Member Posts: 723
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #317 on: June 28, 2019, 07:47:07 PM »
Thanks for the nicely summarized feedback on this topic kamakiri  :hatsoff:

You're welcome! I did forget to add...that the easiest way to check the date would be to pop off the scales. (Not that I recommend doing it) They should both be stamped and dated underneath.  And the 1.0mm liner might be able to tell wether it's from the earlier or latter end of that '87-'91 range.

« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 08:52:00 PM by kamakiri »
No Life Club Posts: 3,105
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #318 on: June 28, 2019, 11:33:32 PM »
I may do that when it arrives. I’ve found with a gentle warming I can pop of the scales without damaging the bosses.  :hatsoff:
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,406 \o/
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #319 on: June 29, 2019, 10:13:44 AM »
I may do that when it arrives. I’ve found with a gentle warming I can pop of the scales without damaging the bosses:hatsoff:

You should never damage a boss, it's bad for your career.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 12,739
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #320 on: June 29, 2019, 10:32:52 AM »
In case anyone can get some more dating info from this:

- Boxed as an "Astronaut",
- "82" stamped on bottom of the box.
- all tools opened, so no chisel or hook
- VICTORINOX tang stamp (all letters same height)

Buy now or regret later
No Life Club Posts: 3,105
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #321 on: June 29, 2019, 06:05:31 PM »
You should never damage a boss, it's bad for your career.
:facepalm:
Hero Member Posts: 723
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #322 on: June 30, 2019, 01:26:26 AM »
In case anyone can get some more dating info from this:

- Boxed as an "Astronaut",
- "82" stamped on bottom of the box.
- all tools opened, so no chisel or hook
- VICTORINOX tang stamp (all letters same height)(Image removed from quote.)

Looks c. late '85/early '86.  I don't think I see a bevel on the awl toward the tip, but a shot of the awl closed could confirm. Still the white flocked/felted liner in the box?
You should never damage a boss, it's bad for your career.
:facepalm:

Hero Member Posts: 723
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #323 on: June 30, 2019, 05:46:27 AM »
Still not sure if #5044 the six layer 'Master' Craftsman.  It may be 'tied' to that Master Craftsman name for both 5 and 6 layers. Later, in the mid- '80s, late six layer *and* the first pliers Craftsman *both* appear to be #5020 in different catalogs.  Space Shuttles appear to have #5049, just to add to the confusion.

Zombie Apprentice Posts: 12,739
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #324 on: June 30, 2019, 09:43:21 AM »


Looks c. late '85/early '86.  I don't think I see a bevel on the awl toward the tip, but a shot of the awl closed could confirm. Still the white flocked/felted liner in the box? :facepalm:

Some hard plastic with a smooth touch to it, yes.

I'll get you the awl shot later :cheers:


Buy now or regret later
Global Moderator No Life Club Posts: 2,421
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #325 on: July 30, 2019, 02:08:18 PM »
Just noticed that the Spartan page in the Wiki has reached 100,000 hits

It's the 14th most visited page
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 02:33:24 PM by Huntsman »
No Life Club Posts: 3,105
Re: Been doing some work in the Wiki
« Reply #326 on: July 30, 2019, 06:24:21 PM »
That’s impressive!  :cheers:

 

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