Is multitool design stagnant ?

[dks]

?

[T14]

I think so tbh.

I reckon all existing multitools fall within these parameters:

• Pliers/knife/trade specific main tool
• generalist vs special purpose
• small/medium/large size and/or weight
• Tool density spectrum
• styling cues

Most innovation nowadays seem to be styling related.
What kind of man jewelry does each of us identify with?
-Tom

[Smashie]

Yes, not seen anything new for the three years that has made me want to rush to hit the buy it button

[G-Dizzle]

Yes. Although SOG made a pretty good effort at innovation this round.

[metasyntax]

No. Stagnant implies that it once was rapidly changing, and now it's not. I believe that Victorinox, Leatherman, and Gerber are about as innovative in recent years as they have always been. SOG has been a little more innovative lately than is normal for them. Furthermore, I believe we see about as much innovation in multi-tools as in many other established consumer products (e.g. cell phones).

[Poncho65]

That is a really good question If we look at the MT timeline of the big four and look at the big picture then I would say no as they release things yearly (even of we here aren't impressed sometimes ) and take LM for example it was a few years before they came out with there second MT and even longer in between there third I believe They just may need to try a new direction is all SOG seems to be heading g that way though so hopefully the others will follow suit Also Vic has been in business so long that it would be hard to innovate after that many years as well  Gerber has tried many different things and some have worked and some haven't so many we will see more from then in the next while

[Demel]

In a way yes, but I also feel there is a lot of potential with the current set of tools.

Modular tools are still not common yet.

Gerber could over at least 100 more varieties of their MP line.

Leatherman....well....A few tweaks and they could have perfect tools. A little refinement goes a long way.

SOG has the compound leverage pliers well established. It's their internal tools that need the most work.

Victorinox is long overdue for a edc juice sized multi tool. Maybe a few varieties. And why not lead the way with modular saks?

Plus their have been a few designs come and go by off brand tools such as the OUTU tri-tool, Piranha, Zilla, Xtact, so on.

Idk if patents are an issue and maybe these companies hands are tied.

Maybe the market as a whole, outside of MTO, doesn't care to have more variety which means it wouldn't be profitable for them.

Who knows. I still see alot of growth that can happen. Maybe we don't need a new design every year, but a perfected one. An exploration into the current designs. Depth not width.

[tosh]

Until someone shakes the tree and brings out something better and cheaper than the current crop, nothing will change.
As for Victorinox being labelled innovative...
That's the best joke I've heard this year by far 

[Etherealicer]

No, they are not...

I just think that we as customers might not always see it, we are after all a bit a prejudgment lot . I personally, totally missed how different the Signal frame is, until I started using mine this January. I was unable to look over the gimmicky plastic parts to not realize that it is definitively an upgrade to the Wave frame.
There is also no money in tools, its better money to make a limited edition and sell it to collectors who are more willing to spend a bit more for a tool (and there are also less warranty claims).

[chrono]

The latest noteworthy incorporation on a multi is the hammer on the MUT/ Signal. Next phase should be pliers incorporated on a hammer-based multi  And why not bring back and refine the pruner line (LM Vista, Hybrid...)? Those always bring in high price when they show up on eBay. What goes round comes around.

[Etherealicer]

The latest noteworthy incorporation on a multi is the hammer on the MUT/ Signal. Next phase should be pliers incorporated on a hammer-based multi  And why not bring back and refine the pruner line (LM Vista, Hybrid...)? Those always bring in high price when they show up on eBay. What goes round comes around.

NO! the Signal has also a small tool in the slot of the blade. If it had 4 outside tools similar to the Wave, it would loos only one inside tool compared to the Wave despite the hammer.

The pruners bring in high prices because they are rare and collectibles (collectors are far more willing to pay premium). I seriously doubt that many people here would be willing to spend 150$ on a factory new Vista for gardening.

[chrono]

The latest noteworthy incorporation on a multi is the hammer on the MUT/ Signal. Next phase should be pliers incorporated on a hammer-based multi  And why not bring back and refine the pruner line (LM Vista, Hybrid...)? Those always bring in high price when they show up on eBay. What goes round comes around.

NO! the Signal has also a small tool in the slot of the blade. If it had 4 outside tools similar to the Wave, it would loos only one inside tool compared to the Wave despite the hammer.

The pruners bring in high prices because they are rare and collectibles (collectors are far more willing to pay premium). I seriously doubt that many people here would be willing to spend 150$ on a factory new Vista for gardening.

I did not mean selling the Vista for $150, I am well aware of how and why it brings in high price at auction. It is a $60 tool at most. What I meant is, there are audience for such kind of tools, especially with multi tools being more popular nowadays. Leatherman has a bunch of discontinued tools people are still interested. They should make use by improving upon them. Victorinox makes it right with the SwissTool line.

[Fortytwo]

The latest noteworthy incorporation on a multi is the hammer on the MUT/ Signal. Next phase should be pliers incorporated on a hammer-based multi  And why not bring back and refine the pruner line (LM Vista, Hybrid...)? Those always bring in high price when they show up on eBay. What goes round comes around.

Another implement is getting a overhaul, the bit driver. I mentioned in the Spirit challenge thread that it is interesting how differently the big 4 are handling the switch to bits as forced by the movement away from Phillips and, even more so, flatheads.

• Leatherman was early on the ball with their Tool Adapters, a nice idea that didn't really catch on. After that came the flat bits. They do, kind of, solve the problem about space but the fact that they are proprietary means they aren't that commonly available (at least here) and they are very limited in what kind of bits there are (you're stuck with stubby ones for example).
• Victorinox had the Cybertool out when the main use was in electronics but that's not really the case anymore and the size is to small. For the larger sizes they seem to have reasoned  that once you are carrying a bit kit for 1/4" bits a small ratchet isn't much more to carry.
• SOG introduced the centred drive with the PowerPlay and Reactor (sorry Gerber (although the LM Tool Adapters did this too)), it seems to have it's fair share of problems but if they can get it properly working the solution is probably the best out there since it uses space that is otherwise unused.
• Gerber came out just recently of course, their center-drive is a bit of a misnomer since it's only centred on one axis but it seems to be really easy to use, always an important factor.

SOG's and Gerber's solutions are recent and shows that there are still new designs out there. Even if I'm not really interested in SOGs latest creations I do believe that the Batons have a space to fill in many pocket organisers thanks to the shape. 

[Marc_in_NS]

The desire to please the boardroom over passes the need to engineer something the ppl would want...

[G-Dizzle]

No, they are not...

I just think that we as customers might not always see it, we are after all a bit a prejudgment lot . I personally, totally missed how different the Signal frame is, until I started using mine this January. I was unable to look over the gimmicky plastic parts to not realize that it is definitively an upgrade to the Wave frame.
There is also no money in tools, its better money to make a limited edition and sell it to collectors who are more willing to spend a bit more for a tool (and there are also less warranty claims).

Good point about the signal! Like it or not, it is a new concept.

[Etherealicer]

The latest noteworthy incorporation on a multi is the hammer on the MUT/ Signal. Next phase should be pliers incorporated on a hammer-based multi  And why not bring back and refine the pruner line (LM Vista, Hybrid...)? Those always bring in high price when they show up on eBay. What goes round comes around.

NO! the Signal has also a small tool in the slot of the blade. If it had 4 outside tools similar to the Wave, it would loos only one inside tool compared to the Wave despite the hammer.

The pruners bring in high prices because they are rare and collectibles (collectors are far more willing to pay premium). I seriously doubt that many people here would be willing to spend 150$ on a factory new Vista for gardening.

I did not mean selling the Vista for $150, I am well aware of how and why it brings in high price at auction. It is a $60 tool at most. What I meant is, there are audience for such kind of tools, especially with multi tools being more popular nowadays. Leatherman has a bunch of discontinued tools people are still interested. They should make use by improving upon them. Victorinox makes it right with the SwissTool line.

Simply put

Setup cost would be higher than the Signal primarily due to the shears.
Signal sells at about 100$
So, to compensate for that difference a 60$ pruner would have to sell at least twice the units of a Signal.

[Zed]

For me yes,as still prefer designs from over 20 years ago,tried trusted and works 

[cody6268]

The latest noteworthy incorporation on a multi is the hammer on the MUT/ Signal. Next phase should be pliers incorporated on a hammer-based multi  And why not bring back and refine the pruner line (LM Vista, Hybrid...)? Those always bring in high price when they show up on eBay. What goes round comes around.

The crappy Chineese makers have already done that. I've got a Protocol made that way.   Now, if only a quality maker would do that.

Bear and Son still makes their Gardener, so maybe the pruner-based multis aren't half bad anyway.  My Gardener often finds its way into the woods with me.

[ironraven]

An... "interesting" question.

First I'd want to know what you mean by "stagnant". As I would use the term, car design is stagnant. Other than a few outlier hybrids and electrics, there isn't a single thing new in cars since fuel injection, ABS and automatic transmissions became standard. OK, maybe making frames out of a aluminum- lighter weight, but less robust and honestly not an improvement nor a savings. (I spent about the same repairing damage I believe done to my Sonata while pulling it out of a ditch due to a lack of proper tow points than I'll save over the car's life cycle in fuel savings). You have an infernal combustion engine burning dead dinosaurs and a metal box with some windows and doors; add four rubber tires and some lights. Tada, it's a car. Fuel economy isn't much better than it was a decade ago, they've peaked until the cutting edge improves and drops in price.

So if that is "stagnant", yes, multitools are stagnant. THere isn't a single new thing since the Gerber introduced the sliding head used on the Multiplier except maybe a slight refinement here or there in 20 years. A hammer butt on a knife or a tool isn't new. The Crunch is probably the most radical thing in production today.

Multipurpose knives like SAKs haven't seen a real evolution in my lifetime.

Doesn't change that there is always work being done. And every year or two you should bring out some new models. Thats the nature of modern manufacturing and economics.

[Etherealicer]

An... "interesting" question.

First I'd want to know what you mean by "stagnant". As I would use the term, car design is stagnant. Other than a few outlier hybrids and electrics, there isn't a single thing new in cars since fuel injection, ABS and automatic transmissions became standard. OK, maybe making frames out of a aluminum- lighter weight, but less robust and honestly not an improvement nor a savings. (I spent about the same repairing damage I believe done to my Sonata while pulling it out of a ditch due to a lack of proper tow points than I'll save over the car's life cycle in fuel savings). You have an infernal combustion engine burning dead dinosaurs and a metal box with some windows and doors; add four rubber tires and some lights. Tada, it's a car. Fuel economy isn't much better than it was a decade ago, they've peaked until the cutting edge improves and drops in price.

So if that is "stagnant", yes, multitools are stagnant. THere isn't a single new thing since the Gerber introduced the sliding head used on the Multiplier except maybe a slight refinement here or there in 20 years. A hammer butt on a knife or a tool isn't new. The Crunch is probably the most radical thing in production today.

Multipurpose knives like SAKs haven't seen a real evolution in my lifetime.

Doesn't change that there is always work being done. And every year or two you should bring out some new models. Thats the nature of modern manufacturing and economics.

I have to disagree on car design being stagnant.
That subtle change in the line of your car might well have a deeper reason than simple aesthetics. European car companies simulate accidents with pedestrians and cyclists, the idea in general is that the victim does not end up below, but above the car.

Sometimes innovation is not as obvious. We got the big innovations down pretty well, I mean, wheels should be round not square...But there is so much more to wheels. The rubber and texture of tires is a science that has a huge impact on safety, comfort and fuel economy.

Or the attached image... its just a knife, no innovation about it, right?
Or is there?
Can you figure it out?

Show content

This steak knife stands upright on the cutting board, without the edge touching the board.
Ok, admittedly it is not so well visible on the image, but believe me, its more prominent if you see it for real.
Do we need this? Not really, but it is neat.

[ducttapetech]

An... "interesting" question.

First I'd want to know what you mean by "stagnant". As I would use the term, car design is stagnant. Other than a few outlier hybrids and electrics, there isn't a single thing new in cars since fuel injection, ABS and automatic transmissions became standard. OK, maybe making frames out of a aluminum- lighter weight, but less robust and honestly not an improvement nor a savings. (I spent about the same repairing damage I believe done to my Sonata while pulling it out of a ditch due to a lack of proper tow points than I'll save over the car's life cycle in fuel savings). You have an infernal combustion engine burning dead dinosaurs and a metal box with some windows and doors; add four rubber tires and some lights. Tada, it's a car. Fuel economy isn't much better than it was a decade ago, they've peaked until the cutting edge improves and drops in price.

So if that is "stagnant", yes, multitools are stagnant. THere isn't a single new thing since the Gerber introduced the sliding head used on the Multiplier except maybe a slight refinement here or there in 20 years. A hammer butt on a knife or a tool isn't new. The Crunch is probably the most radical thing in production today.

Multipurpose knives like SAKs haven't seen a real evolution in my lifetime.

Doesn't change that there is always work being done. And every year or two you should bring out some new models. Thats the nature of modern manufacturing and economics.

Well said and spot on.

[temo]

Also you could ask is work you do stangant in area where multitools are used. Vic cybertool and squirt E4 are ok examples from multitools focuced to IT and electricity. But as general multitools are focused to handwork. Again there are survival multitools and rescue multitools recently. And from mans jewelery tread. But seems most multipurpose need is handwork related multitools meaning popular toolsets like pliers, screwdrivers, bottle opener, file, saw, knife, scissors. Old inventions from tool side. In there maybe diamond file is newest innovation. So I could say mechanical tools area is quite slow with innovations. One of the most recent additions to survival MT is whistle and fire making tool. Which as invention (make fire) is quite old.

But I see changes and think rescue tool is one larger example. Still need of common tools have remained quite same.

[tosh]

Very good point about Bear & Son above.
It's a pity they don't try harder in the UK.
They are now a unique company in that not only are they USA built ( yay!!) but the fact that they cater for different tasks
The Gardener
The Electrician
The Blunt Nosed MT

All well made and sadly not available here in the UK.

I can picture the Gardener in Garden Centres/Camping Shops

The Electrician in Electrical stores/ Home DIY outlets

And the basic Blunt nose would sell in any of the above plus more scope too.

I only have a few Bear and Sons but I am hoping to get the Shears and Electrician this year.

[The Lone Wanderer]

I just wish Victorinox would put pocket clips on knives more, it would be so handy.

[cody6268]

Very good point about Bear & Son above.
It's a pity they don't try harder in the UK.
They are now a unique company in that not only are they USA built ( yay!!) but the fact that they cater for different tasks
The Gardener
The Electrician
The Blunt Nosed MT

All well made and sadly not available here in the UK.

I can picture the Gardener in Garden Centres/Camping Shops

The Electrician in Electrical stores/ Home DIY outlets

And the basic Blunt nose would sell in any of the above plus more scope too.

I only have a few Bear and Sons but I am hoping to get the Shears and Electrician this year.

You can't even find them here, in the US.  If they were to improve their quality and QC, get their products in more stores, and price their multis to compete with LM, I think they'd have a gold mine on their hands.  The knife store near me carries half a dozen different Bear knives, and a few more Remingtons (made by them)--they're the only place that even sells the brand (and they claim to be the largest knife store in my area), they don't even carry the Bear Jaws tools--I guess because they'd take from two strong sellers--Vic and LM.   
 

[Demel]

Very good point about Bear & Son above.
It's a pity they don't try harder in the UK.
They are now a unique company in that not only are they USA built ( yay!!) but the fact that they cater for different tasks
The Gardener
The Electrician
The Blunt Nosed MT

All well made and sadly not available here in the UK.

I can picture the Gardener in Garden Centres/Camping Shops

The Electrician in Electrical stores/ Home DIY outlets

And the basic Blunt nose would sell in any of the above plus more scope too.

I only have a few Bear and Sons but I am hoping to get the Shears and Electrician this year.

You can't even find them here, in the US.  If they were to improve their quality and QC, get their products in more stores, and price their multis to compete with LM, I think they'd have a gold mine on their hands.  The knife store near me carries half a dozen different Bear knives, and a few more Remingtons (made by them)--they're the only place that even sells the brand (and they claim to be the largest knife store in my area), they don't even carry the Bear Jaws tools--I guess because they'd take from two strong sellers--Vic and LM.   

I do believe you are right. I also recall Grant having a conversation with the owners and they don't care for their multi tool line. I wonder if being bought out by Vic and them using their patent to make the Swisstool has anything to do with that? either way I would be all for them investing more r & d into their multi tool line

[Etherealicer]

Very good point about Bear & Son above.
It's a pity they don't try harder in the UK.
They are now a unique company in that not only are they USA built ( yay!!) but the fact that they cater for different tasks
The Gardener
The Electrician
The Blunt Nosed MT

All well made and sadly not available here in the UK.

I can picture the Gardener in Garden Centres/Camping Shops

The Electrician in Electrical stores/ Home DIY outlets

And the basic Blunt nose would sell in any of the above plus more scope too.

I only have a few Bear and Sons but I am hoping to get the Shears and Electrician this year.

You can't even find them here, in the US.  If they were to improve their quality and QC, get their products in more stores, and price their multis to compete with LM, I think they'd have a gold mine on their hands.  The knife store near me carries half a dozen different Bear knives, and a few more Remingtons (made by them)--they're the only place that even sells the brand (and they claim to be the largest knife store in my area), they don't even carry the Bear Jaws tools--I guess because they'd take from two strong sellers--Vic and LM.   

I do believe you are right. I also recall Grant having a conversation with the owners and they don't care for their multi tool line. I wonder if being bought out by Vic and them using their patent to make the Swisstool has anything to do with that? either way I would be all for them investing more r & d into their multi tool line

It all comes down to profit.

They probably don't care for their multi tool line because they sell at the same price as their knifes. So if they had to improve quality and QC AND lower the price, profit per unit would go even further down. At the same time they would have to battle LM, Vic and Gerber for market share.

Yes, it would be awesome, if we got more different designs. Luckily for me, I'm not even through with what is currently available.

Tools to try out for me
- One from Al mar
- Gerber Center Drive
- Ranger line
- Wenger SwissGrip
- SOG Sync / Baton

[Demel]

Very good point about Bear & Son above.
It's a pity they don't try harder in the UK.
They are now a unique company in that not only are they USA built ( yay!!) but the fact that they cater for different tasks
The Gardener
The Electrician
The Blunt Nosed MT

All well made and sadly not available here in the UK.

I can picture the Gardener in Garden Centres/Camping Shops

The Electrician in Electrical stores/ Home DIY outlets

And the basic Blunt nose would sell in any of the above plus more scope too.

I only have a few Bear and Sons but I am hoping to get the Shears and Electrician this year.

You can't even find them here, in the US.  If they were to improve their quality and QC, get their products in more stores, and price their multis to compete with LM, I think they'd have a gold mine on their hands.  The knife store near me carries half a dozen different Bear knives, and a few more Remingtons (made by them)--they're the only place that even sells the brand (and they claim to be the largest knife store in my area), they don't even carry the Bear Jaws tools--I guess because they'd take from two strong sellers--Vic and LM.   

I do believe you are right. I also recall Grant having a conversation with the owners and they don't care for their multi tool line. I wonder if being bought out by Vic and them using their patent to make the Swisstool has anything to do with that? either way I would be all for them investing more r & d into their multi tool line

It all comes down to profit.

They probably don't care for their multi tool line because they sell at the same price as their knifes. So if they had to improve quality and QC AND lower the price, profit per unit would go even further down. At the same time they would have to battle LM, Vic and Gerber for market share.

Yes, it would be awesome, if we got more different designs. Luckily for me, I'm not even through with what is currently available.

Tools to try out for me
- One from Al mar
- Gerber Center Drive
- Ranger line
- Wenger SwissGrip
- SOG Sync / Baton

Profit is definitely important. I don't think they need to lower their prices but improve QC for sure. They have a simple and intuitive design. It just needs a touch up.