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What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?

00 Offline jnoxyd

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What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #30 on: January 07, 2017, 03:07:19 PM
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 03:11:46 PM by JNOXID »


us Offline FolderBeholder

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #31 on: January 07, 2017, 03:14:17 PM
FolderBeholder, have you seen this interesting blog?
http://archerwinsak.blogspot.co.il/2015/01/collection-victorinox-84mm-models.html(Image removed from quote.)

http://archerwinsak.blogspot.co.il/2015/01/collection-victorinox-240ku-camper.html



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Thank you for that top link, I had not seen that.  :cheers:
I was on his 240ku Camper link just yesterday! 
Rest in peace ColoSwiss, you will always be remembered.


us Offline FolderBeholder

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #32 on: January 07, 2017, 03:36:37 PM
Those of you who have been collecting for a while, what are the chances of finding a 237k Bgl. with the old style can opener?

Rest in peace ColoSwiss, you will always be remembered.


00 Offline jnoxyd

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #33 on: January 07, 2017, 03:38:13 PM
FolderBeholder, have you seen this interesting blog?
http://archerwinsak.blogspot.co.il/2015/01/collection-victorinox-84mm-models.html(Image removed from quote.)

http://archerwinsak.blogspot.co.il/2015/01/collection-victorinox-240ku-camper.html



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Thank you for that top link, I had not seen that.  :cheers:
I was on his 240ku Camper link just yesterday!
BTW, Erwin is great collector, but 240kU is another knife ))) (photo by jazzbass)

84mm Camper small is mod.237k/237kU :)



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us Offline GigaHz

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #34 on: January 07, 2017, 03:43:11 PM
Those of you who have been collecting for a while, what are the chances of finding a 237k Bgl. with the old style can opener?

Is that this style?


us Offline FolderBeholder

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #35 on: January 07, 2017, 03:44:54 PM
Those of you who have been collecting for a while, what are the chances of finding a 237k Bgl. with the old style can opener?

Is that this style?


YES!  :drool: :like: :drool:  The one I saw had a shackle/bail, but the one in your photo will do!
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 03:48:08 PM by FolderBeholder »
Rest in peace ColoSwiss, you will always be remembered.


us Offline FolderBeholder

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #36 on: January 07, 2017, 03:56:31 PM
FolderBeholder, have you seen this interesting blog?
http://archerwinsak.blogspot.co.il/2015/01/collection-victorinox-84mm-models.html(Image removed from quote.)

http://archerwinsak.blogspot.co.il/2015/01/collection-victorinox-240ku-camper.html



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Thank you for that top link, I had not seen that.  :cheers:
I was on his 240ku Camper link just yesterday!
BTW, Erwin is great collector, but 240kU is another knife ))) (photo by jazzbass)
(Image removed from quote.)
84mm Camper small is mod.237k/237kU :)
(Image removed from quote.)


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WOW!  Thank you for the additional information.  :cheers:
Rest in peace ColoSwiss, you will always be remembered.


gb Offline Oxford_Guy

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #37 on: January 08, 2017, 02:25:04 PM
I think the small master craftsman and the small huntsman are the only ones that will come close (sort of) to the Camper and the Woodsman?
Yeah, there aren't any 84mm with the Mag and philips layer  :cry:


I've see a mod that does!
I am going to want factory, but that won't stop me from admiring a mod...do you know the link where it is?


Found an image, Here you go:





"We broke into Mir using a Swiss Army knife. Never leave the planet without one." - Chris Hadfield, Astronaut


id Offline jaya_man

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #38 on: January 08, 2017, 02:30:51 PM
I think the small master craftsman and the small huntsman are the only ones that will come close (sort of) to the Camper and the Woodsman?
Yeah, there aren't any 84mm with the Mag and philips layer  :cry:


I've see a mod that does!
I am going to want factory, but that won't stop me from admiring a mod...do you know the link where it is?


Found an image, Here you go:
What a beut... :drool:


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us Offline FolderBeholder

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #39 on: January 08, 2017, 02:32:02 PM
I think the small master craftsman and the small huntsman are the only ones that will come close (sort of) to the Camper and the Woodsman?
Yeah, there aren't any 84mm with the Mag and philips layer  :cry:


I've see a mod that does!
I am going to want factory, but that won't stop me from admiring a mod...do you know the link where it is?


Found an image, Here you go:
Nicely done mod!  :cheers: :tu:
Rest in peace ColoSwiss, you will always be remembered.


us Offline jazzbass

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #40 on: January 12, 2017, 12:23:38 AM
Small versions of the Camper (237k) and Woodsman (236k) do exist, but for whatever reason Victorinox decided to phase out production of them in the mid 1960s. Small Camper models go back to the 4 pin era of the early 1900s  (I actually have one of these in very, very rough condition). However, despite the fact that they could produce a run of these today if they wanted, the newest 84mm Camper I've ever seen is from the mid 1960s. As for the 84mm Huntsman, these too disappear around the mid 1960s. For both of these models, most of the ones you find are from the mid 1940s to early 1950s. After the mid 1950s Victorinox really starts to de-emphasize thicker 84mm models in favor of their 91mm counterparts, and regular production runs of 84mm knives thicker than 2 layers all but stops by the late 1980s.

First pic is one of my Model 236k knives. Second is a pic of a 237k (also c. 1944) taken from it's original eBay auction. I won this auction so so I'm sure the seller won't mind me recycling this image since it is of my knife.  :)





us Offline FolderBeholder

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #41 on: January 12, 2017, 01:08:45 AM
Small versions of the Camper (237k) and Woodsman (236k) do exist, but for whatever reason Victorinox decided to phase out production of them in the mid 1960s. Small Camper models go back to the 4 pin era of the early 1900s  (I actually have one of these in very, very rough condition). However, despite the fact that they could produce a run of these today if they wanted, the newest 84mm Camper I've ever seen is from the mid 1960s. As for the 84mm Huntsman, these too disappear around the mid 1960s. For both of these models, most of the ones you find are from the mid 1940s to early 1950s. After the mid 1950s Victorinox really starts to de-emphasize thicker 84mm models in favor of their 91mm counterparts, and regular production runs of 84mm knives thicker than 2 layers all but stops by the late 1980s.

First pic is one of my Model 236k knives. Second is a pic of a 237k (also c. 1944) taken from it's original eBay auction. I won this auction so so I'm sure the seller won't mind me recycling this image since it is of my knife.  :)


 :drool: :drool:
Thanks for the post JB.  I sure do want to pick up a lobster claw can opener some day.
Rest in peace ColoSwiss, you will always be remembered.


us Offline JamesJ

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #42 on: January 12, 2017, 01:13:50 AM
Or this one?

(Image removed from quote.)
Now this was the Mega84 I was talking about... nice to see it again 50ft-trad...


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Please tell me there's a thread on fitting that IL awl to 84mm!

Wondering if I could add an electrician/awl layer...I have a RadioShack that's not in "collector" condition....

You guys are probably sick of seeing mine: (too bad here it is again)

84 in tree.jpg
* 84 in tree.jpg (Filesize: 321.46 KB)
-JJL
instagram: jamesjlarue (warning, lots of cat pics along with the SAKs)


us Offline FolderBeholder

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #43 on: January 12, 2017, 01:17:47 AM
I never tire of seeing any SAK James.
Hopefully someone will know if that can be done and chime in.
Rest in peace ColoSwiss, you will always be remembered.


us Offline JamesJ

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #44 on: January 12, 2017, 01:18:34 AM
I think the small master craftsman and the small huntsman are the only ones that will come close (sort of) to the Camper and the Woodsman?
Yeah, there aren't any 84mm with the Mag and philips layer  :cry:


I've see a mod that does!
I am going to want factory, but that won't stop me from admiring a mod...do you know the link where it is?


Found an image, Here you go:

I'm guessing that's the newer short IL phillips combined with the old gray mag in order to fit the smaller chassis?
-JJL
instagram: jamesjlarue (warning, lots of cat pics along with the SAKs)


id Offline jaya_man

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #45 on: January 12, 2017, 02:12:27 AM
Or this one?

(Image removed from quote.)
Now this was the Mega84 I was talking about... nice to see it again 50ft-trad...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Please tell me there's a thread on fitting that IL awl to 84mm!

Wondering if I could add an electrician/awl layer...I have a RadioShack that's not in "collector" condition....

You guys are probably sick of seeing mine: (too bad here it is again)
Here it is:

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=68815


id Offline jaya_man

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us Offline JamesJ

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #47 on: January 12, 2017, 04:02:10 AM
 :popcorn:
-JJL
instagram: jamesjlarue (warning, lots of cat pics along with the SAKs)


00 Offline jnoxyd

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #48 on: January 12, 2017, 07:52:04 AM
Small versions of the Camper (237k) and Woodsman (236k) do exist, but for whatever reason Victorinox decided to phase out production of them in the mid 1960s. Small Camper models go back to the 4 pin era of the early 1900s  (I actually have one of these in very, very rough condition). However, despite the fact that they could produce a run of these today if they wanted, the newest 84mm Camper I've ever seen is from the mid 1960s. As for the 84mm Huntsman, these too disappear around the mid 1960s. For both of these models, most of the ones you find are from the mid 1940s to early 1950s. After the mid 1950s Victorinox really starts to de-emphasize thicker 84mm models in favor of their 91mm counterparts, and regular production runs of 84mm knives thicker than 2 layers all but stops by the late 1980s.

First pic is one of my Model 236k knives. Second is a pic of a 237k (also c. 1944) taken from it's original eBay auction. I won this auction so so I'm sure the seller won't mind me recycling this image since it is of my knife.  :)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)
Glad to see new photo by jazzbass! Can you tell us about different scissors position on the pre 1946 knives?


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us Offline jazzbass

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #49 on: January 12, 2017, 09:13:54 PM
Glad to see new photo by jazzbass! Can you tell us about different scissors position on the pre 1946 knives?

Sure. If you'll notice in this image, only the Huntsman models (236) have the scissors on the head pin, while the Climbers (235) have it in the "normal" location on the tail pin. If you look at knives back to the early 1900s, the Spartan (205/234), Climber (235) and Camper (237) models are built almost exactly the same way they are today. A modder taking apart a modern Climber and a vintage Climber would find them very similar in construction even if the materials are different. The Huntsman, however, is a different beast. The original tool layout and layer arrangement for the Huntsman was completely different. I took some pictures of my 1905 Model 236U to illustrate how these were built:



The main difference is that the main blade is in the middle of the knife, not the rear layer with the pen blade and the corkscrew like in all modern SAKs (and even the other 1, 2, and 3 layer models back then). The scissors are hinged on the head pin and in the place where the main blade usually sits. This is 100% speculation, but I think the logic was that at 4 layers, the knife was too thick to have the main blade so offset, so they wanted it in the middle of the knife. The other interesting think about the early Hunstman model is that it use three spring for four layers. The middle two layers of the main blade and woodsaw share a single large backspring between them.

This design layout lasts into the mid- to late 1930s. With the introduction of the new cap lifter tool, the Huntsman is redesigned slightly and the main blade assumes it's traditional position on the back layer with the pen blade and the scissors move to the middle layer on the shared large spring with the woodsaw where the main blade used to be. You can see this in this picture of a Hunstman I have from the late 1930s:



Layer wise this knife is organized much like a typical modern Huntsman, but you can see the scissors are still on the head pin and now are in front of the saw. This arrangement lasts until about 1941 when plastic scales are introduced. The early celluloid scaled Huntsman are still built like this one from 1939, but the later celluloid ones are where you see the regular 4 layer construction of the modern Huntsman emerge, complete with scissors on the tail pin. This happens probably around 1942-1943.

Early 84mm versions of the Huntsman (236k) were built the same way - three springs with a large shared spring in the middle.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 09:55:49 PM by jazzbass »


us Offline Barry Rowland

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #50 on: January 12, 2017, 11:22:03 PM
  :drool: :drool: :drool: love that knife Jazzbass!!!
Barry


00 Offline jnoxyd

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #51 on: January 13, 2017, 08:48:16 AM
Thank you, Jazzbass, great story as usually!
It is interesting that this wide back spring was used by other Swiss knife makers also.
WENGER (1920s ?) with the same tool layout as 236 Huntsman (1939) shown by Jazzbass:
SCHODER THUN (1900s ?) with main blade and wood saw on the one wide spring  like at the Huntsman from 1905


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wales Offline hiraethus

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #52 on: January 13, 2017, 10:19:09 AM
Fascinating stuff as usual jazzbass, and a great thread in general. :like: :tu:


us Offline FolderBeholder

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #53 on: January 13, 2017, 12:12:29 PM
Thank you all for the contributions.  :2tu: 
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 12:23:45 PM by FolderBeholder »
Rest in peace ColoSwiss, you will always be remembered.


00 Offline jnoxyd

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #54 on: January 06, 2019, 02:13:55 PM
It looks like 1960s Camper small is not very common. Here is first one I saw during last two years.
Together with elder brother Elinox 1237


scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #55 on: January 06, 2019, 02:16:07 PM
Nice! :cheers:
Be excellent to each other and always know where your towel is.


ua Offline LeaF

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #56 on: January 06, 2019, 02:23:54 PM
It's beautiful, Julius!


ca Offline Greg Jones

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us Offline Rapidray

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #58 on: January 06, 2019, 03:04:47 PM
 :iagree:
That is very nice!


us Offline FolderBeholder

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Re: What is the 84mm counterpart to the Woodsman and Camper?
Reply #59 on: January 06, 2019, 03:09:11 PM
It looks like 1960s Camper small is not very common. Here is first one I saw during last two years.(Image removed from quote.)
Together with elder brother Elinox 1237
(Image removed from quote.)
Lovely!  :like:
Rest in peace ColoSwiss, you will always be remembered.


 

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