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New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts 3302

Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« on: January 06, 2017, 07:52:28 PM »
I'm going to use this thread to voice my initial feelings on some of the design aspects of the recently announced new SOG offerings for 2017. All opinions here will purely be based on the sales literature that we have seen so far, and without anyone I know having handled one or given any kind of feedback or insight.

In other words, I could be completely wrong  :D

However, it's always fun to try and predict the pros and cons of new tools before they get field tested. It shows whether or not we've been paying attention in the past  :P Please feel free to join in with your thoughts as we go along.  :cheers:

I'll start with the Q1 Baton.....




My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2017, 08:05:32 PM »
Albeit simplistic, the Q1 baton actually strikes me as one of the cleverest offerings of the bunch. It seems genuinely useful, ergonomically sensible, and with no obvious opportunities for screwing up the quality.

Essentially this is a pocket clipped ball point pen, which "breaks" in half and reveals a small pair of scissors. At the end is a fold out cap lifter and small screwdriver. No knife blade, so potentially usable in certain blade restricted locations.

The main function here is the pen - and it's pen shaped. Good start! The scissors look of good form, and the angle of the chamfer at the break is correct for levering up a bottle top without the tool coming open and scissor points attacking your palm. How well that works as a screwdriver (without accidental scissor deployment) will depend on spring strength. The design of the pen slide means that you're not likely to stick yourself with the pen tip, unless you'd forgotten to stow it before using as a driver. No matter how good a tool design, an idiot will still find a way to hurt themself with it.

I haven't read deep enough to see if these tools take standard ink refills, or if you have to buy special ones from SOG. Extra points could be added or subtracted there by having/not having ease and affordability of keeping the tool alive. Lets face it, if the pen is empty and you can't get refills, it's not going to be carried.


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2017, 08:15:52 PM »
The Q2 Baton is quite confusing. Every picture I have seen with the blades deployed, sees the handle elements splayed with gearing at the joint. Why doesn't this fully open? Every picture showing the tool open seems to show these handle elements at the same angle. That leaves me thinking that it's not just chance, but the full extent of the handle movement. This makes the knife harder to use, and potentially cause the hand to slide towards the blade if wet/slippy, or doing a piercing or scoring cut where there is a resistant force down the axis of the blade.

Odd, and slightly worrying.

The blade however is a secondary function, the first being the torch/flashlight. No battery types have been specified in anything I've read so far. If this is AAA (an easily replacable cell) then there could be additional merit here, or additional face palm points for coin cells.

Again, the handle joint is correct for the cap lifter forces, but will the blade peek out on screwdriver duty? Just how secure are these tools going to be in the closed position?


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2017, 08:37:42 PM »
I'll address the Q3 and Q4 together.

An accidental centre tool pokey outey occurrence is potentially less concerning here, as pliers are (hopefully) blunter than scissors and knife blades. The pliers seem reasonably Squirt or Dime like when deployed, so no glaringly obvious usage problems there if the quality is up to par, and I think that it's fair to say that those two would be the nearest competitors for this tool, despite the differences in closed form.

There is no evidence of locking implement, which seems sensible for tools of this size and duty level. The "driver arm" seems free of obvious smurf ups on both tools, although there is one implement on the arm of the Q3 which is less clear in terms of purpose .... any thought?

The joint angle is correct for primary forces on all tools on the blade arm. Whether the centre joint holds rigid when opening cans, where there may be resistance in both up and down motions, or if cutting something where the knife blade may jam a little, again is dependent on spring strength, and I dare say usage technique too.

Aside from the Q4 being brave enough to incorporate a full 1/4" hex driver and 12 bit (just how smurfing big will this "pen shaped" item be?), it seems the main question - at least for me - is whether this baton shape will make it more carryable or less carryable than a "regular" form multitool. Personally I am struggling to see any advantage over this form factor, and it may push the tool/s into a kind of "no-mans-land" in terms of size vs duty level and durability.


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2017, 09:07:25 PM »
The Sync 1 and 2, are for me starting to stray a little further into the "novelty gadget" realm.

Firstly, there's the carry method. Some people might really like the idea of a smurfing big belt buckle that can be detatched and used as a tool. Some people might not! I suspect that the polarisation here will be somewhat parallel to thos who like or don't like the look of the Leatherman Tread.

The next thing that struck me was the short pliers and long handles all folding up into a small package. That's clever! The fact that it's an open webbed investment cast construction, is less clever. Here's the thing with castings - they are great under compression, and crap in tension. Yes, some can have improved ductility through smart chemical composition and heat treatment - I have been involved in a number of projects involving centrifugally cast pipe - but generally speaking tensile forces on castings are to be avoided at all costs.

Why are you saying this Al? Where are the tensile forces?

Let's look at the pliers again. When gripping something with the pliers, the extra handle length and short jaws will in theory really let you get a good gripping force. If you give someone that opportunity, they WILL use it. Working from the plier pivot back down the handles, the arm will want to bend due to the forces applied - hopefully it will be rigid enough not to. However, as that wants to bend, the inside is subject to compression forces, and the outside is subject to tension.

Now look at the tool closed up. The part that will be in tension, I reduced in thickness so that it partially fits inside the other handle part and reduces the closed profile.

Did you spot it yet?

The thinnest part of the casting - which doesn't like tensile forces - is the bit that's under tension. The part that is thickest, doesn't need to be. I'm going to go out on a limb here, and suggest that just either side of the centre triangle on the outer edge of the handles are potential fracture points (barring casting defects elsewhere). This might not happen straight away if the casting has been carefully considered at a metallurgical level, but could still be prone to fatigue in these areas.

I see this as potentially being a bigger problem than the hollow plier pivot (a frequent chunter of mine) which enables the engagement plunger to lock the tool into the belt buckle. I can't really make two many presumptions about that, as it's not clear as to how much metal may have been removed to accommodate plunger and spring.

Also, why the smurf do tools this small need locks?

And, why the smurf are the locks on the blade and scissors which shouldn't be subject to axial loads, and the drivers which WILL be subject to axial loads are the lock releases.

AND the form factor of using any of these smaller, unnecessarily locking components looks awkward and uncomfortable.

This tool looks to me like it was designed by marketting people not toolmakers. Target audience is definitely people who don't often buy and use tools - let's call them "Dad gifts" from family members.


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2017, 09:30:18 PM »
Power Access:

Initial thought - those handle cut outs look bloody uncomfortable!

That aside, it's really nice to see SOG embrace the idea of outboard tools. This makes the knife blade and the notching portion of the file (which they have included - unlike the Gerber Centre Drive) significantly better in use in most applications, as the other handle isn't in the way. The other tools that often benefit from this are can openers and saws. The only time where it's beneficial to have the tools oriented from inboard is blunt nosed serrated knives, as for seatbelt cutting or clothing cutting for wound access it's more important to get the spine as close as possible, than the blade (relevant later)

The plier heads look a good all-round usage head, with hard and soft wire cutters, complimented by the mechanical advantage offered by the compound leverage. I know I rant about handle splay on other tools, but the bottom line here is that you can't keep handle splay in reasonable limits AND offer compound leverage at the same time. If you want/need compound leverage, that's the price you pay. The plier heads also offer the magnetic driver bit facility on the reverse, previously seen on the Reactor and PowerPlay. Added functionality for very little added volume and weight. See previous reviews by other people on the older tools to form your own conclusions about the effectiveness of this feature.

As to the rest of the tools, they seem a fair assortment. The Phillips looks like it might be a #1 which for me is a perpetual disappointment on SOG offerings, as the planet seems to be held together with #2 screws. The Jewellery Driver, is that the teeny weeny ultra-slim spike thingy? Is it? What is it, some kind of #00000 Phillips? I'll have to pass on that, as I can't figure out the purpose, so how can I guess if it's suitable? The awl is a little "quick" for my tastes, as I prefer a slower taper - but that's a minor point.

Overall, not a bad design effort is the quality is there. It would be nice to see a bladeless version of this if it turns out to be well made, though I do still have reservations on the plier handle comfort due to the cutouts - and what the smurf are those cutouts for on the side further down? Weight reduction?


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2017, 09:31:52 PM »
PowerGrab:

What the smurf were they thinking here?  :facepalm: This might be more than one post. In fact, I'm going to break off here and go get a coffee before I try to tackle this one.....


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2017, 10:39:56 PM »
OK, I've got myself a coffee, so lets take a look at the SOG ClusterSmurf PowerGrab

 :whistle:

What a sloppy sloppy lazy unthinking half arsed piece of design work. Let's tick off a few positives first before we launch our full on assault though. Pliers look good. Nice and strong, soft and hard wire cutters, compound leverage, again this affects handle splay, but thems the breaks. OHO plain edged blade, compatibility with traditional SOG components, and metal saw included on the file.

OK, arse kicking time. You may notice that this tool has BOTH the traditional bit driver adapter "stump", AND the magnetic bit driver on the back of the plier head. There is only one simple reason for including both hex bit driver features on one tool. Laziness! They ran out of off the shelf tools and ideas for what to fill the handle with. Simple as that!

The only other reason to include a second feature is if the first feature is crap - so which is it SOG? Which of these two features is so crap that you have to include the other one? Just give us one and make sure it works! Are we supposed to have not noticed, or are we supposed to think you can tighten one screw with one end and simultaneously think we can loosen another screw with identical screw pitch length at the same time. Why not give us a full thickness 3D #2 Phillips? Chisel blade? Pry tool? Tyre depth gauge? Hex bit storage? Jigsaw blade attachment? Even a lanyard loop makes more sense here. Make an effort for smurfs sake!!!!!

 :facepalm:

OK, so moving on ..... *deep breaths*

This tool has one "inboard" arm, and one "outboard" arm. This gives SOG the option of fitting each arm with the tool which gives optimum orientation in use. However, once again, they opt to royally smurf it up instead!

 :facepalm: :facepalm:

Remember my comments earlier about blunt nosed serrated blades? I mentioned that these are one of the few tools which benefit from an "inboard" configuration, but Some Oblivious Gonad (note the initials) chose to mount it on the outboard arm. They got the OHO plain edged blade on the correct arm, so 1/2 point awarded for putting 50% of the knife blades in the right place.....

.... and then there's the scissors.....

..... these scissors are NOT the greatest on the market. In fact they are one of the worst that are offered in multitools (where's Lynn when you need her?). One of the many aspects about these scissors that makes them crap, is that they are upside down on the tool. They had off the end of the handles with the moving arm pointing over the opposing handle. The reason for this is that essentially, these scissors are outboard design scissors that SOG kept mounting in an inboard configuration....

.... but wait...

..... here's a tool with both inboard and outboard arms....

..... and.......  :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

:bnghd:

They want 120 beer vouchers for this shambles?

This isn't a Friday afternoon special, the shift where you really aren't paying attention because you want to go home, grab a shower, and head straight out for a weekend of full on partying. This is worse than that! This is day after the Christmas party material! You know you're probably going to get the sack anyway for dipping your smurf in your bosses wife's glass of Bollinger, and sang loudly "dip your balls, in someone's Bolli, fallallallallaargh fallallaargh.... BARF!!!" - instant 18" pavement pizza.

You reckon you've got nothing to lose, so you screw up the design on purpose as a parting shot in case they sack you, knowing you can correct the design later if you keep your job. However, the next morning, you get told you can keep your job as it was a one-off, providing you don't screw up anything else for the next 6 months, but you need to get the PowerGrab design submitted immediately as they've planned a January release....

And so the SOG ClusterSmurf was born


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2017, 10:44:14 PM »
Finally there's the Micro Tool Clip. Third time of attempting it, and the Phillips is still unusable.


Nuff said!


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2017, 10:47:56 PM »
In the interests of full disclosure, for those who don't already know. I am one of the customers that SOG lost due to them having a significant decline in quality of design and manufacture over recent years. I have however tried to approach this appraisal as neutrally as I can, and keep this objective. Any apparant bias against the brand is purely coincidental, and due to the fact I'll happily take the piss out of anyone and everything, given an adequate opportunity

 :cheers:


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2017, 10:49:05 PM »
The end!


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2017, 10:49:23 PM »
Your turn  :pok:


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2017, 10:50:01 PM »
Where have you all gone?

Was it something I said?  :think:


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,837 Tactical Desk Jockey
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2017, 10:55:35 PM »
 :clap:

EDC: Steel Talon, Spirit, Patriot, LD02
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2017, 11:06:29 PM »
If any moderators are bored and fancy a little job... :pok: :D ... Kampfer posted up some piccies in a seperate thread of catalogue captures for each of these tools, and it would be really useful to get one of the appropriate pic posted at the beginning of each "review" post, so people can relate picture to words.

It was a problem for me to do this, as I'm just working off a phone. Hopefully one of you can assist.

Yes, I know it's a smurfty request, but thanks in advance anyway  :P :hatsoff:


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2017, 11:09:00 PM »
:clap:

Thanks Kam  :salute: Anything you disagree on? And any clue what that weird rounded tool is supposed to be on the left arm of the Q3?


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,837 Tactical Desk Jockey
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2017, 11:22:46 PM »
:clap:

Thanks Kam  :salute: Anything you disagree on? And any clue what that weird rounded tool is supposed to be on the left arm of the Q3?
I havent look into them that deeply as you did, when I have the tools in hands i will cross reference back to your thoughts.

EDC: Steel Talon, Spirit, Patriot, LD02
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2017, 11:24:47 PM »
 :tu:


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Head Turd Polisher Administrator He who has the most nuts, wins! Posts: 57,614 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2017, 11:25:35 PM »
Just a slight aside here- the issue you have with the redundant drivers on the PowerGrab is exactly the complaint I had about the so called "premium" Leatherman Charge XTi that I paid full Canadian retail price of $145 for because everyone talked about how wonderful it was.  So wonderful, and yet with an unnecessary duplication of features, to say nothing of the various flatheads.

Maybe since it was Leatherman and they can do no wrong, it's ok when they do it, but a double standard when someone else tries it.

Def

NEW!   NEW!   NEW!   NEW!   NEW!   NEW!   NEW!


NEW PRODUCTS ADDED DAILY!
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2017, 11:32:26 PM »
Just a slight aside here- the issue you have with the redundant drivers on the PowerGrab is exactly the complaint I had about the so called "premium" Leatherman Charge XTi that I paid full Canadian retail price of $145 for because everyone talked about how wonderful it was.  So wonderful, and yet with an unnecessary duplication of features, to say nothing of the various flatheads.

Maybe since it was Leatherman and they can do no wrong, it's ok when they do it, but a double standard when someone else tries it.

Def

Slight but very poignant difference there. The ALX can hold and retain two bits (four drivers) at the same time, increasing the scope of the tool without carrying peripherals. The PowerFail can only use one bit on one driver at any time, and cannot retain any of them.

Therefore there is a legitimate design reasoning behind the ALX design, which is absent on the SOG.


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2017, 11:36:17 PM »
Grant, I hope you realise that you just made me defend a Leatherman design principle  :pok:

 :D


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2017, 11:57:50 PM »
Looking at the Q3 in closer detail, the rounded tool on the left arm as pictured may be the "chisel" as referred to in the supporting text. Due to the profile of this tool, and the fact that there is no obvious locks, I am going to assume that this tool is ground on the side, and will therefore almost be like a kind of whittling knife.

As all the above comments, this is just speculative guess work, but if correct, I can imagine that being quite a handy little tool in this configuration.


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
No Life Club Posts: 1,887 I know you are, but what am I?
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2017, 12:11:27 AM »
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, right? I enjoyed your initial thoughts on the new designs. I am quite a SOG fan and I will quickly share some thoughts of my own.

Baton tools - I have more reservations about these tools than any of the other offerings. The one with the pen is interesting, the one with knife less so, and the two pliers based batons I don't like based on how ugly they are - yes, shallow :P

The Syncs - I like them. The bigger one is my fav, because more tools. They look unique, too

PowerAcess - really excited about this one. We have got a PPP replacement, at the expense of the PPP, I just hope it can live up to that legacy. I am bummed that it has apparently lost the ability to accept the interchangeable tools. I'd like to see it with scissors. Maybe a future variation? But all outside access, the pliers head driver, and a pocket clip? Wins. Solidity of construction is going to be the make/break factor. I sort of wish name was PPP2.0

PowerGrab - I am interested in this one as well, but my love of the PL may prevent me from purchasing... Initially :D I agree with your assessment about the configuration of the inboard vs outboard tools. Scissors should have been out, serrated should have been in. I don;t mind the 1/4" adapter, but a new implement would have been better - 3D #2 phillips being the first thing to come to mind. My concern with the PG? Is this going to eventually replace the PL? They need to offer some variations if that is the long term plan.

Micro Tool Clip - I have one. I like it. I agree that the phillips is a fail.

Overall, I am really excited about SOG this year. And last year. And the year previous. They are really killing it lately. As I mentioned with PA, the solid-ness of these tools is the key factor. The quality needs to be up to PL, SP, PPP standards and not on PowerDuo level. SOG went a different direction than I would have, offering a bunch of new models. I would have made adjustments to the existing product lines and called them 2.0 or 3.0 as applicable. But I like the Reactor a lot. So clearly blazing new trails has paid off recently for them.

Without POL, pilots are pedestrians.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2017, 12:21:18 AM »
Thanks for your input, rdub  :tu: Nice to get the input of a long term SOG fan. I had no intentions of this thread being "one sided", and always value your comments  :cheers: Differences of opinion and perspective are important and highly informative.

Good call on the pocket clip on the PowerAccess which is something that I overlooked. I've only noticed it in the text and not in any pictures. Hopefully the clip is at the plier end, as these SOGs do tend to swing open quite easily (or at least their predecessors did)


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2017, 12:27:30 AM »
.... also, is it me, or is the plier head more similar in profile to the rather nicer Paladin PT510 plier head? Overall, I think the tool has the potential to be superior to the PPP in many ways. I also agree that putting their standard scissors on here would be a nice touch, especially on a knifeless variant


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Head Turd Polisher Administrator He who has the most nuts, wins! Posts: 57,614 Optimum instrumentum est inter aures
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2017, 12:44:49 AM »
Grant, I hope you realise that you just made me defend a Leatherman design principle  :pok:

 :D


At least SOG can use standard bits.

:P

Def

NEW!   NEW!   NEW!   NEW!   NEW!   NEW!   NEW!


NEW PRODUCTS ADDED DAILY!
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2017, 12:48:50 AM »
Grant, I hope you realise that you just made me defend a Leatherman design principle  :pok:

 :D


At least SOG can use standard bits.

:P

Def

.... without peripherals at one end, whereas they can both use standard bits but only with the use of peripheral components at the other end  ;)


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless
Sr. Member Posts: 361
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2017, 02:04:36 AM »
Q4 looks interesting. At one point I did look bit driver mt. But to be honest I have not found usable one. LM bits are good solution if you think about bits in edc (I do not carry all bit options so don't mind even bits are not normal size). This Q4 seems like ok solution. Again bits and tool can be quite large edc. And again like estimated pliers look light duty. Again I prefer fixed flat and philips. Flat I use other then screw tasks as well (prybar etc). But seems this can be smaller then example wave with one slide of bits or spirit plus. So looks fine but depends how handy carry solution is.

So agree that bit driver with one bit is not a great solution. And to carry example 12 bits is same then having extra sak in carry. Again there are quite small ratchet and bit sets you can carry on belt. So LM could do as well Q4 like solution for own bits, example for MT about juice S2 size + room for 5 double bits, that I could edc.

But surely nice try for this area at least.
No Life Club Posts: 1,887 I know you are, but what am I?
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2017, 02:09:32 AM »
MOre pics and info of the 2017 products are available on SOG website!!!

http://www.sogknives.com/...ew-for-2017/show/all.html

Without POL, pilots are pedestrians.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 15,051 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: New SOG (2017) - Initial thoughts
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2017, 02:12:21 AM »
Q4 looks interesting. At one point I did look bit driver mt. But to be honest I have not found usable one. LM bits are good solution if you think about bits in edc (I do not carry all bit options so don't mind even bits are not normal size). This Q4 seems like ok solution. Again bits and tool can be quite large edc. And again like estimated pliers look light duty. Again I prefer fixed flat and philips. Flat I use other then screw tasks as well (prybar etc). But seems this can be smaller then example wave with one slide of bits or spirit plus. So looks fine but depends how handy carry solution is.

So agree that bit driver with one bit is not a great solution. And to carry example 12 bits is same then having extra sak in carry. Again there are quite small ratchet and bit sets you can carry on belt. So LM could do as well Q4 like solution for own bits, example for MT about juice S2 size + room for 5 double bits, that I could edc.

But surely nice try for this area at least.

The length of the Q4 is listed as 5.8" (about 147mm) but it's not clear if this is closed, or with/without a driver bit in position. It is possible that this tool might have Juice sized pliers. We can't be certain until somebody buys one and posts size comparison pictures


My current users:
Victorinox: - Spirit X, Climber Small, Alox Rambler, Orig. Outdoorsman, Voyager Lite, CT34 & 41, Compact, Manager, Salesman, + mods (Sheepsfoot Duke & Mega84)
Wenger: - Traveler, PTC + mods (Brian)
Gerber: - Balance, Dime + mods (MP426**, DEsTroyer, MP6000**, TurboDiesel**, Neutered Octane**)
Leatherman: - Sideclip, KF4, + mods (Fuse-ilier**, Knifeless Wave**)
Others: - Vise Grips LC6
** = knifeless

 

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