It's final. Re: Leatherman Warranty outside U.S.A.

[Teofilo]

A member of the Philippine Leatherman Association wrote the Leatherman co.:

[Grant Lamontagne]

As far as I know, Leatherman doesn't ask where you bought a tool, so how would they know it was sourced from eBay, or any other unauthorized dealer?

It seems they are putting rules in place that they have no interest in enforcing?

Def

[Mechanickal]

As far as I know, Leatherman doesn't ask where you bought a tool, so how would they know it was sourced from eBay, or any other unauthorized dealer?

It seems they are putting rules in place that they have no interest in enforcing?

Def

By asking to send a copy of your proof of purchase with it.


Extra point(s) for Vic!

EDIT: I saw the bottom line just now...
WTF?

[Troels]

I have been emailing with a woman from www.leatherman.dk (Denmark) about my tired old LM Kick. She said that the tool could be given to any authorized dealer which we send the tool to the "national" store, where the repair would take place. No proof of purchase was required.

I was possitively surprised ! But it seems to vary between countries 

[Poncho65]

I think that some of their authorized dealers should be screened better before taking them in perhaps Some of the dealers across the world seem to be using the warranty as a shield instead of it's intended purpose It isn't ideal to send your tool around the world when you could just send it to the local authorized dealer and (in theory) receive the same treatment as you would sending it to the LM Warranty Dept. in the US

[Freaver]

Basically what poncho already said above. If Leatherman HQ doesn't care if the tool has been bought from an authorized dealer or some other place, why should the local retailers care?
I assume that the local retailers gets reimbursed by Leatherman HQ for the time and parts they use on repairs?

[Grant Lamontagne]

I think that some of their authorized dealers should be screened better before taking them in perhaps Some of the dealers across the world seem to be using the warranty as a shield instead of it's intended purpose It isn't ideal to send your tool around the world when you could just send it to the local authorized dealer and (in theory) receive the same treatment as you would sending it to the LM Warranty Dept. in the US

This isn't the first time I have heard of this issue.  The local distributor wants to protect their bottom line, and Leatherman doesn't look too closely at the international operations, so they get away with it.

Not everyone is going to have as much pride in their work as Kwakster.

Def

[Mechanickal]

Waranty generaly works as follows, over here (not talking about service centers):

Retailer sells product X from company Y.

The client buys product X from the retailer and gets 2 years waranty (minimum waranty stated by the law over here) from the retailer.

If product X breaks within this time, the retailer repairs the product and gets the parts refunded from the company.
Parts ONLY, no working hours.
If company Y only gives 1 year waranty, the retailer is still obligated to give 2 years waranty.
This means that if the product breaks somewhere between 1 and 2 years, the retailer has to pay for everything himself.

Naturaly, the retailer calculates this in the pricing, causing retail prices to go up.
This also means that the retailer isn't waiting for a waranty repair brought in by someone who bought the product elsewhere but has the right for international waranty, simply because this will cost money without any chance on a profit.

Then again, as a retailer you stand by your brand and understand this could happen, or you better seek something else.

[styx]

I remember Enki having issues with the local distributor here with the same issues

[aurabattler]

AFAIK, here in Hong Kong, if we buy through the distribution network of our offocial dealer here,  we will be covered by their warranty with a postage fee.  If the tool is not bought from their  network,  they will still help to honour the warranty with a postage fee plus a small amount of handling charge which I think is fair enough.  However,  some tools may not worth sending back with those costs like Micra or Squirt...

[Teofilo]

The owner of Hahn Manila, tagged me in his FB:

[Grant Lamontagne]

Wow, that's an interesting comment!

If doing business costs him too much money then maybe he should not be in that business?  Or perhaps discuss this issue with Leatherman instead of telling the customers that!

Rule #1 of business- no matter what, as long as the customer is concerned, everything is wonderful.

Def

[aurabattler]

This guy is funny for answering like this... 
I don't think those parallel importers or online sellers are "blackmarket" as long as they sell genuine products...

But as I know, Leatherman maybe quite protective to their overseas distributors. It is very difficult for us to buy Leatherman on overseas online shops. Like knifecenter and Amazon. I can buy any other products and knives from them and send to my home directly but I just can't buy Leatherman. If I need to buy Leatherman from knifecenter for example, I have to send the product to a middle importer in the US and send to Hong Kong through that importer. If I place an order of Leatherman in KC and request to send to my home directly, they will cancel my order due to Leatherman's policy.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I prefer to think of them as Rogue Leatherman sellers myself.... 

Although they can be legitimate dealers even if they aren't "authorized."  In many cases they are legitimately purchased from a reseller or distributor that Leatherman supplies, instead of directly to the dealer.

Def

[chrono]

Given that Leatherman products' price range varies widely, it may be wise for Leatherman to train in-house repairmen at their oversea distributors, or just have different warranty for outside the US completely. It does not make any sense to ship tools back to the US for repair.

[dks]

As I mentioned a few years go, here, to get any warranty work done/warranty replacement you need to pay about 20-30 Euro to he dealer to cover import costs etc. And, this was only possible after an intervention from LM USA. Before that they just flatly refused to honour the LM "Warranty"

Outside of the US the LM Warranty , just like their pricing, can vary, by a lot.

It makes it really annoying/weird/funny for anybody outside of the US when US based members harp on about the great LM Warranty and about what good value their products are.. Many of us pay 50+ Euro/dollars for a Micra

[Mohd Hanif Hamid]

Quite suprise when I saw the answer from Leatherman. Previously I also asked Leatherman FB & the answer is different.

[Grant Lamontagne]

That's the kind of response I expected worldwide, and it is absolutely great to see.  I wish importers everywhere would respond that way, both for the benefit of the end user (consumer) and for the sake of Leatherman's brand.

Def

[pomsbz]

I had a similar issue here in Jerusalem. You can go to a local store and pay $12 for them to send it to Leatherman US. No questions asked. Takes 2-3 months to get it back. There is no way to mail it directly to the distributor here for an in country repair.

If you want to send it to the local distributor it is only via their list of dealers and you need a receipt otherwise the stores won't take them for repair. I was informed that this was due to people handing in second hand tools for repair. I contacted Leatherman US and was told that 'Leatherman does not approve of second hand sales'. Their warranty does point out that the warranty applies to original owners only (did folk here know about that limitation?) but I still found their statement to be offensive. It is no business of theirs if people wish to sell on their own property.

Leatherman like many companies was built on the back of its warranty. In any conversation about buying Leatherman, the warranty will be mentioned. Those in the US have been blessed with a no questions asked warranty and fast service. Elsewhere the warranty is being handled as an annoyance by the distributor with all that that entails. High prices (outside of the US) and an annoying warranty with excruciatingly long repair times and the appeal of Leatherman drops significantly. There are plenty other options out there without the price tag or even with better build quality.

Should they care? I think that in today's global economy it would be stupid not to.  Many companies that were once household names have since fallen to obscurity for whatever reason. When was the last time anyone bought a Maglite for example? Once your reputation for being a class leader is gone, it doesn't take long to be eclipsed.

[ThePeacent]

I've been very happy with the LM Warranty service here in Spain.
They are on a village an hour away from where I live, in an industrial area. I asked them if I could personally send my Juice and Surge to them and avoid paying shipping, they gave me a printable paper for the warranty and said "come see us!", so I took a free evening later that week and visited the LM dealer's warehouse, brought my tools, met some very nice guys and left 3hrs later with a brand new Surge and a repaired Juice multitool, I just brought the document and they did it all there.

They were very kind, fast and professional,
I won't hesitate to contact them again if I ever need it 

[carboncopy101]

I'm from the Philippines and its frustrating to see how hahn, is treating original leatherman tools like they're  counterfeit. It should not matter where you buy it as long as it is an authentic leatherman.

[Teofilo]

I'm from the Philippines and its frustrating to see how hahn, is treating original leatherman tools like they're  counterfeit. It should not matter where you buy it as long as it is an authentic leatherman.

Another fellow Filipino's concern:

[carboncopy101]

I'm from the Philippines and its frustrating to see how hahn, is treating original leatherman tools like they're  counterfeit. It should not matter where you buy it as long as it is an authentic leatherman.

Another fellow Filipino's concern:

I'm​ also part of this Facebook group and I saw the man's post by post. Some of the guys are thinking of mass shipping broken leathermans to portland but thats still expensive. And even if you buy the tool from hahn if you have no proof of purchase they won't help you. I know that it is a problem of self practice, documenting purchases in case of emergency but the warranty is in the tool not the paper.

And in my opinion what sets apart a seller from a distributor is the customer service they can provide for warranty claims. If a distributor becomes selective to the products they entertain then why promote being a licensed distributor? What they're​ doing is rebranding the product they're distributing as their own.

[Teofilo]

Well said bro! 

[carboncopy101]

I hope more from the group express their concern to hahn. Who would have expected that they'll​ suddenly require a proof of purchase? It's a sh*tty move.

[Grant Lamontagne]

You would think that Leathermanwould try to find a solution to this other than "Email Leatherman USA."  This is seriously hurting their brand worldwide.  I mean, if they can ship the distributor tools to sell, why can't they ship them replacement tools too?

It also seems to me that there might be an opportunity for someone to make a few dollars in their spare time, repairing broken Leatherman tools in the Philippines.  Sure, having an unauthorized repair depot might void your warranty, but it appears that the warranty is not a huge concern there.

I would be happy to provide some of Loki-Mobile's keys to anyone in the Philippines that would be willing to start doing that- and I might have a few Leatherman tools that could be donated until that person was able to build up their own parts bin.  I'm sure others would contribute as well.

Def

[carboncopy101]

You would think that Leathermanwould try to find a solution to this other than "Email Leatherman USA."  This is seriously hurting their brand worldwide.  I mean, if they can ship the distributor tools to sell, why can't they ship them replacement tools too?

It also seems to me that there might be an opportunity for someone to make a few dollars in their spare time, repairing broken Leatherman tools in the Philippines.  Sure, having an unauthorized repair depot might void your warranty, but it appears that the warranty is not a huge concern there.

I would be happy to provide some of Loki-Mobile's keys to anyone in the Philippines that would be willing to start doing that- and I might have a few Leatherman tools that could be donated until that person was able to build up their own parts bin.  I'm sure others would contribute as well.

Def

I would like to help with fixing leatherman. I'm an electronics engineering student with a weird background on mechanical engineering so i have access to shop tools and i have my dremel just in case. Can you point me where to start on acquiring parts?

[Grant Lamontagne]

Give this some thought before you jump into this- you will be helping a lot of people by repairing their tools which they need and use in day to day life.  You won't be able to keep them while waiting for parts or until you get around to it, you will need to fix them and get them back out ASAP as some folks rely on them for work.

It's a huge commitment for someone to make, and if you want to make it then you need to do some research first.  Since there is a Leatherman FB group (which I assume is not official or run by Hahn?) I would start by asking whether people think such a service is necessary and decide whether it is worth doing from there, and get an idea of what people would consider paying for such a service.  Remember, the minute you mention something like that you will be upsetting some people and giving your idea to some others, so try to make sure you are ready for that.

Then consider that it shouldn't take more than an hour or so to disassemble and re-assemble a typical Leatherman, so what do you need to make per hour to make it viable for you?  Then, what does postage cost in your country?  You will need to add that to your cost, along with any Paypal or Credit Card fees etc.

I doubt shop tools will be needed, but there will be consumables (lubricants and Loc-Tite for example) would be needed, so what would you charge for those?

You need to find a good balance between your costs and making it reasonably affordable for the folks that need help.

If you can get all of that figured out then I would suggest that you start searching eBay, our Trade Forums (and those of other forums and FB groups) and look for good deals on used Leatherman tools that might be serviceable- for example, if you find one that has a broken blade, that's great, because it means you can get a can opener, saw, file, scissors, screwdrivers etc from it that you could use to repair many tools that have those things broken on them.

There may also be some people in the Philippines that have been turned down by Hahn so they have gone and purchased other tools to replace the broken ones.  They may be willing to let you have the broken one either cheap or free if you let them know what you are doing.

It won't be an easy start, but if you are willing to do it, it could be fun and it could have a bit of money in it for you.

Def

[carboncopy101]

I've been thinking about it all day and i want to help. I plan to ask for parts people can donate and with that I can get a list of possible parts I can replace. I won't be charging anything, i'm doing it as a volunteer. Current question I need to work on is best way to source the parts.I plan to work on this till leatherman usa addresses this problem.

I'm planning on consulting to a friend once the holidays are over on making a financially sound service. I'm not planning on diving head on but with you guys helping I'm pretty sure we can work things out.

To answer your other questions:
The Philippine Leatherman FB group is not run by Hahn.
Postage here for packages here in the USA is reasonable. The problem is with customs, anything above 200 usd is taxable.
I have plenty of loctite here, honestly it's a life saver especially for parts with a moving part nearby like motors.

If you guys and gals can donate any parts it would be appreciated! Thanks!

[carboncopy101]

Talked to friend here is what we talked about

3 phase
1. source
   tools
      torqx driver
      heat gun
      pliers, leatherman lol
            
      consumable
         threadlock
         lubricant   

   parts acquisition
      crowdsourcing or will you charge?
      -local
         *Ask philippine leatherman association
         *olx
                  *
      -abroad, find a supply station keep  all parts there then ship as a whole
         *multitool forum
         *ebay
      buying  broken tools
         -establish algo for pricing
            philippine srp price, tool broken, time of acquisition, condition, shipping
               
   try to get donations in the span of 1 month for now then determine necessary frequency of sourcing
            source parts periodically
            
            
2. list
   create spreadsheet of available parts with compatible models
      include price for repair if charging
            
   media?
      piggy back with leatherman facebook group?         

      make a tally for demand         

      get feedback
         
3. repair(replacing part)
      user sends tool>tool is repaired>tool is shipped back>evaluate
         
      find a courier and rates(lbc, jrs, xend, 2go)
      time the duration of service
         
      repair only, no mods