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Leatherman Cease and Desist

id Offline jaya_man

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #30 on: February 28, 2017, 03:21:48 AM
Maybe TTC would not be in trouble if they only mod tools sent to them?


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us Offline chrono

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #31 on: February 28, 2017, 03:53:03 AM
Perhaps they are too busy spending it on lawyers.

Honestly I completely understand Leatherman on this- hell, I'm protective of the MTO brand, and it isn't worth a fraction of what Leatherman's brand is. 

I think TTC could easily manage to stay in business pretty well exactly as they have been, with only a few minor changes- simply stop using the Leatherman name and suggest that they specifically are providing warranty service (or none at all) and not Leatherman despite there being some LM components used in construction of the tool.

It is important to differentiate that they are using Leatherman components rather than providing Leatherman products.

Defa

I think this is exactly the point.  TTC needs to clearly differentiate that their product is NOT a Leatherman and is no longer bound to the Leatherman warranty

I remember reading somewhere (TTC website?), TTC clearly stated that their tools would not be honored by Leatherman for warranty claim. TTC actually offered their own warranty.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 04:20:13 AM by chrono »


um Offline Mr. Whippy

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #32 on: February 28, 2017, 12:33:00 PM
Perhaps they are too busy spending it on lawyers.

Honestly I completely understand Leatherman on this- hell, I'm protective of the MTO brand, and it isn't worth a fraction of what Leatherman's brand is. 

I think TTC could easily manage to stay in business pretty well exactly as they have been, with only a few minor changes- simply stop using the Leatherman name and suggest that they specifically are providing warranty service (or none at all) and not Leatherman despite there being some LM components used in construction of the tool.

It is important to differentiate that they are using Leatherman components rather than providing Leatherman products.

Defa

I think this is exactly the point.  TTC needs to clearly differentiate that their product is NOT a Leatherman and is no longer bound to the Leatherman warranty

I remember reading somewhere (TTC website?), TTC clearly stated that their tools would not be honored by Leatherman for warranty claim. TTC actually offered their own warranty.
If that's the case,  I don't see how Leatherman can win this.  If I buy  a car, take it apart and modify it, reassemble and sell it as a mod, stating it has no factory warranty,  I don't see how Ford can cry foul because it has a Ford grill


Offline lurkee

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #33 on: February 28, 2017, 04:10:51 PM
dang it,  I wanted a Damascus blade, when I finally get my Signal set up the way I want it.


us Offline powernoodle

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #34 on: February 28, 2017, 06:16:59 PM
Aren't gold tools kinda foo-foo?

No, they are very foo foo.

But what is a lad to do?  I've purchased every conceivable SOG, Gerber, Victorinox and Leatherman,  And then I bought multiples.  And backups to my multiples.  And discontinued models.  And shelf queen backups to the discontinued models.  And then when the time comes that you have to satisfy that MT craving, all that is left is Texas Tool Crafters.  So I go to the dark side and end up foo foo.

 :facepalm:


us Offline powernoodle

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #35 on: February 28, 2017, 06:20:35 PM
I don't see how Leatherman can win this.

Leatherman "wins" by threatening TTC with years of litigation costing hundreds of thousands of dollars that TTC cannot afford.  So TTC either capitulates or they cease to exist.

Again, I am hopeful - and predicting - that the parties will reach an accord, and Leatherman products will return to TCC's website.


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #36 on: February 28, 2017, 09:22:44 PM
Perhaps they are too busy spending it on lawyers.

Honestly I completely understand Leatherman on this- hell, I'm protective of the MTO brand, and it isn't worth a fraction of what Leatherman's brand is. 

I think TTC could easily manage to stay in business pretty well exactly as they have been, with only a few minor changes- simply stop using the Leatherman name and suggest that they specifically are providing warranty service (or none at all) and not Leatherman despite there being some LM components used in construction of the tool.

It is important to differentiate that they are using Leatherman components rather than providing Leatherman products.

Defa

I think this is exactly the point.  TTC needs to clearly differentiate that their product is NOT a Leatherman and is no longer bound to the Leatherman warranty

I remember reading somewhere (TTC website?), TTC clearly stated that their tools would not be honored by Leatherman for warranty claim. TTC actually offered their own warranty.
If that's the case,  I don't see how Leatherman can win this.  If I buy  a car, take it apart and modify it, reassemble and sell it as a mod, stating it has no factory warranty,  I don't see how Ford can cry foul because it has a Ford grill

Actually, yes.  They can.

That is no longer a Ford, just as these tools are no longer Leatherman Tools.  They are Texas Toolcrafter Tools made with Leatherman components.  That is the important thing to remember, as it is a significant distinction.

Just imagine if TTC did a shoddy job of reassembling the tools- I am not suggesting they do, but just imagine for a moment that they did.  A customer then equates the shoddy workmanship with the Leatherman name and damages the Leatherman brand, through no fault of Leatherman's.

The fact that TTC may do good work is notwithstanding- if Leatherman allows one company to do it then they rightly can't stop other companies from doing the same thing, and who knows what the quality will be after that?

They simply have to protect their brand, and the only way to do that is to not let people mess with it, good or bad.

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline kaput

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #37 on: March 01, 2017, 02:36:22 AM
Aren't gold tools kinda foo-foo?

No, they are very foo foo.

But what is a lad to do?  I've purchased every conceivable SOG, Gerber, Victorinox and Leatherman,  And then I bought multiples.  And backups to my multiples.  And discontinued models.  And shelf queen backups to the discontinued models.  And then when the time comes that you have to satisfy that MT craving, all that is left is Texas Tool Crafters.  So I go to the dark side and end up foo foo.

 :facepalm:

I completely understand and admire your situation  :D

multi-tools—folding contraptions fixed with all kinds of doo-dads


ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #38 on: March 01, 2017, 10:26:43 AM
Goldfingeeer....
He loves only gooold!

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!


us Offline chrono

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #39 on: March 02, 2017, 12:40:39 AM
Goldfingeeer....
He loves only gooold!

Goldmember,  my friend!  :cheers: Johan van der Smut, the man with the gold genital, which is also a key to activate the tractor beam. Multitool indeed  :D


us Offline sawman

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #40 on: March 02, 2017, 02:36:52 PM
How is this any different from buying a truck from Toyota and taking it to your favorite body shop to have custom paint job and other changes?...

SAW


ca Offline Syph007

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #41 on: March 02, 2017, 02:43:26 PM
This type of thing is more often about trademark then who changes what tools. Were they using trademarked names and phrases on their site belonging to leatherman?  Probably since the name leatherman was on there. 

Having some experience in this area... never use registered trademarks names on your site.  Don't have a storefront selling modified tools.  Make it clear your are charging for the labor to customize a tool.   Make it clear your are not affiliated with parent company and warranty is void.

If they were selling only blades and upgrade parts and not acting as a defacto dealer then I bet they'd have no troubles.
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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #42 on: March 03, 2017, 12:22:31 AM
How is this any different from buying a truck from Toyota and taking it to your favorite body shop to have custom paint job and other changes?...

It isn't. But don't expect Toyota to warranty the things you changed or anything directly affected to/by the things you changed.

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


wales Offline Smashie

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #43 on: March 03, 2017, 12:50:56 AM
How is this any different from buying a truck from Toyota and taking it to your favorite body shop to have custom paint job and other changes?...

It isn't. But don't expect Toyota to warranty the things you changed or anything directly affected to/by the things you changed.

Def

No and Jeep and JLR wouldn't either, but none of them issue C&D on the companies that modify them.

A blinged out charge Tti is the same as a custom 4x4. Obviously not from the factory, it's buyer beware. Or in the case of LM at the moment (and this is only my opinion and i have more LM's that anything else) they have stopped innovating and their QC isn't really up to snuff.
“Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people.” - Socrates
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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #44 on: March 03, 2017, 03:02:49 AM
Leatherman isn't trying to stop anyone from modifying tools, they are trying to keep another company from using their trademark without permission.

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline yud

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #45 on: March 03, 2017, 02:58:48 PM
Look Grant is right.

Y'all need to remember a few things in your comparisons.  Multitools are fairly new and for profit mod are even newer, so to an extent this is a newish situation.  Guns are made to be be disassembled by the end user, for cleaning.  Cars likewise are made so they can be repaired fairly easily, also generally the warranty is not transferrable (unlike tools where there are no questions asked warranty).

And most importantly, the legal principle of what is good for for the goose is good for the gander.  In other words TTC may do good work but Dingbat TC does crappie work, you have to go after both or you hurt the case against either.  Much like what was said earlier about the IOC and NCAA (you can go after everyone or no one).


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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #46 on: March 04, 2017, 12:15:29 AM
Look Grant is right.

That's all you needed to say.... :D

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #47 on: March 04, 2017, 12:19:57 AM
Look Grant is right.

That's all you needed to say.... :D

Def
I agree with grant?
Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!


us Offline yud

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #48 on: March 04, 2017, 11:49:09 PM
Look Grant is right.

That's all you needed to say.... :D

Def

Yeah but that is kind of a short post


Just another weirdo with a beard :B:

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ch Offline Etherealicer

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #49 on: March 06, 2017, 05:37:23 PM
Maybe it is not just the declaration on the TTC site...

for example here in Switzerland we have the
Leatherman Surge Black Ninja Edition

I don't think that is a LM but looks like a TTC (or even someone else) to me. The only indication is that it has only 2 years of warranty and not 25. So maybe the reason is that they don't communicate well enough with their re-sellers.
It wouldn't be the internet without people complaining.


us Offline Aloha

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #50 on: March 06, 2017, 06:07:03 PM
Like I posted, I hope TTC can find a way to continue to produce modded tools.  No question LM needs to protect their brand. 

Esse Quam Videri


us Offline Ashley

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #51 on: March 06, 2017, 06:57:58 PM
Well then… :nothingtoadd:


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us Offline JustinCase

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #52 on: March 07, 2017, 04:22:33 AM
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 04:27:54 AM by JustinCase »
“It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I try a little longer to solve the problem"


us Offline kaput

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #53 on: March 07, 2017, 04:32:21 AM
multi-tools—folding contraptions fixed with all kinds of doo-dads


scotland Offline Sea Monster

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #54 on: March 08, 2017, 08:58:03 PM
Welp, Grant made all my points, and then addressed counter points (such as the car comparison)


So, I can either reiterate them,

or, and trust me this causes me great pain, and a spasm in the back of my neck...


I agree with Grant...

 ::)


us Offline chrono

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #55 on: April 27, 2017, 02:16:30 AM
It looks like TTC is back in business, by etching their business name and serial number on the tool, and clearly stating "TTC Modifed Tool.... based on Leatherman...". I take it that they will honor the warranty themselves? They show all their works on Leatherman tools on their website, but all are "SOLD OUT"?

And WTF with this $600 Wave offering by TTC themselves on eBay  ??? http://www.ebay.com/itm/TTC-Modified-Tool-Midas-Touch-Edition-Based-on-Leatherman-Wave-/201906698137?hash=item2f0293b799:g:x6EAAOSwVm5ZANWn

« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 02:18:45 AM by chrono »


us Offline MusicMen

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #56 on: April 27, 2017, 02:37:40 AM
Great, more red tools to buy.   :ahhh   :ahhh
BUCK: X-Tract, 360
GERBER: Clutch, Shortcut, Dime*, DimE*, Octane & Crucial FAST
MP600 NN, CentreDrive, Grappler
Diesel*, Nickle*, Bullrush, MP600 BN, Flik & MP600DET* all in BO
LEATHERMAN: Skeletool, Style PS, CS, ES* & Style*, Juice S2(X2), SC2, C2, Pro, XE6
Crunch, MTO Style CS, Sideclip, BO Kick*
SOG: PowerAccess, Blacktip*, HD PPP
VICTORINOX: SwissTool Std, X(CS), & RS all with red logo, Spirit XBS
*=mod


us Offline chrono

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #57 on: April 27, 2017, 03:13:14 AM
I think they are in the phase of "getting the words out", hence all "sold out" tools and crazy prices. A stock BO Wave is listed at $300 on their site.


us Offline MusicMen

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #58 on: May 02, 2017, 06:23:31 AM
Tools are now available!   :ahhh  :ahhh
BUCK: X-Tract, 360
GERBER: Clutch, Shortcut, Dime*, DimE*, Octane & Crucial FAST
MP600 NN, CentreDrive, Grappler
Diesel*, Nickle*, Bullrush, MP600 BN, Flik & MP600DET* all in BO
LEATHERMAN: Skeletool, Style PS, CS, ES* & Style*, Juice S2(X2), SC2, C2, Pro, XE6
Crunch, MTO Style CS, Sideclip, BO Kick*
SOG: PowerAccess, Blacktip*, HD PPP
VICTORINOX: SwissTool Std, X(CS), & RS all with red logo, Spirit XBS
*=mod


us Offline kaput

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Re: Leatherman Cease and Desist
Reply #59 on: May 02, 2017, 08:31:18 AM
Imo the TTC "disclaimer" on the tools looks absoloutley attrotious  :facepalm:. Unfortunate, but I completely understand and ultimately sided with Leatherman on the situation.

Happy people can still attain their tools however, always good. Glad it could be worked out.
multi-tools—folding contraptions fixed with all kinds of doo-dads


 

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