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SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources

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es Offline Gio_Luso

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #90 on: December 31, 2024, 05:01:08 PM
Zanza, thank you. This job has been a pleasure for me.  :cheers:

00 Offline jnoxyd

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #91 on: June 11, 2025, 01:59:31 PM
     We all love to learn the year our knives were made and often use tool dating to help with that. Unfortunately, we don’t have exact factory documentation about the many changes made to tools, especially in the past, so we constantly have to refine our estimates of when certain tool changes occurred.
    Today I’d like to share some additional facts with you, and I hope you find them helpful.
     For a long time, we dated the transition for 91mm scissors from the old style (mod. 1951) with a single leaf spring to the new V-shaped leaf spring as happening in 1973 (or even 1975). However, in recent years, enthusiasts have found much evidence suggesting that production of the new type of scissors began around 1970. However, there was a large stock of old scissors, and they continued to be used until c.1973.
     Rémi Poupard showed several Champions from his collection with double-spring scissors, a +PAT stamp (which was discontinued in 1971), and a bail (!), supporting this timeline.
      There are several versions of the "new" (V-shaped leaf spring) scissors:
- Transition style scissors (named by Jazzbass) – c.1970–1976 (blunt scissor tips, small spring hole, small screw)
- Modern scissors with screw – 1976–1990 (sharp scissor tips, large spring hole, large screw)
- Modern scissors with screw and ‘guiding-groove' for the new ‘cup end’ spring  - 1990-1991
- Modern scissors with steel rivet – 1991–c.2007
- Modern scissors with bronze-colored rivet made of a nickel-silver alloy - c.2007-now
     A useful dating tip by Jazzbass is the change in shape of the end of the scissor back spring in 1987/88.
What do you think?

00 Offline jnoxyd

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #92 on: June 11, 2025, 02:02:00 PM
More pics:

00 Offline jnoxyd

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #93 on: June 11, 2025, 02:03:41 PM
Scissors back spring changes according Jazzbass:

au Offline Huntsman

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #94 on: June 11, 2025, 02:46:45 PM
Amazing posts - Thanks JNOX
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00 Offline jnoxyd

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #95 on: June 11, 2025, 08:24:01 PM

au Offline Echotech

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #96 on: June 12, 2025, 03:54:32 AM
 :iagree: :like: :hatsoff:
Merit Badges Participate in a Challenge thread, carry a Victorinox Cadet and post a photo every day for 30 consecutive days. For 30 consecutive days carry a SAK with a magnifying glass, and post a picture every day in the designated thread. Participate in a Challenge thread, carry at least one green edc item, and post a photo every day for 30 consecutive days. Participate in a Challenge thread, carry a SAK, duct tape, and paperclip, and post a photo every day for 30 consecutive days. Participate in a Challenge thread and post a photo of  a Opinel  knife  for 30 days Participate  in Challenge thread and post a photo of a Vic Spirit MT for sixty (60) consecutive days. Participate  in Challenge thread and post a photo of a Alox SAK for thirty (30) consecutive days. Carry an orange item and post a picture of it everyday for 30 days. Participate and post a pic of your vintage SAK (1986 or earlier) everyday for 30 days. Participate in a challenge thread and post a photo of a SAK Cybertool (any variant), Swisschamp, Champion or Toolchest for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of the multitool for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of a different SAK each day for thirty (30) consecutive days. Participate  in Challenge thread and post a photo of a Buck 112 Ranger for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of the Vic Huntsman for thirty (30) consecutive days. Participants shall carry and use one Soldier knife, the model of their choosing, for the duration of the 90 days and post a picture each day. Participate  in a Challenge thread and post a photo of a LM Pocket Survival Tool for thirty (30) consecutive days. Participate  in Challenge thread and post a photo of a Delemont SAK for thirty (30) consecutive days. In this challenge,  carry one(1) Pliers-based or Non-pliers multitool that we always have prejudice against, hate or even fear and post a picture everyday for 30 days Start a new thread and post a photo of the leatherman (supertool, core, hacks) for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of the minimal sak (2 layers or fewer) for thirty (30) consecutive days. Start a new thread and post a photo of the multitool for thirty (30) consecutive days.

es Offline Gio_Luso

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #97 on: June 14, 2025, 12:46:11 AM
 :like: :woohoo:

es Offline Gio_Luso

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #98 on: June 26, 2025, 05:06:30 PM
.

00 Offline Adrian Nowak

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #99 on: August 31, 2025, 12:49:52 PM
Sorry for the quality, but I made a tool evolution tree. 93mm needs to be computer made but I want someone to review this and add something I might be missing

au Offline Huntsman

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #100 on: August 31, 2025, 03:58:21 PM
Hi Adrian,

Welcome (back) to MTo! - These look good
Leaf did something similar to this - See the 91mm model relationships link on the first page
You might want to compare them

I don't think we have a 93mm diagram - Be good to get that one typed up

I have not heard of a 93mm Mountaineer, Jailbreaker, or Ultimate Farmer Duo (that was a club knife - So probably should not feature?  ???)
« Last Edit: August 31, 2025, 04:50:32 PM by Huntsman »
Merit Badges Must update or add a page on SAKWiki Start a new thread with photos of a Japanese made PST in your collection Take part in the christmas pool or a rak type giveaway. Those wanting to say thank you for a rak may also nominate for the santa. Must buy an item through the MTo Store Start a new thread with a photo of your custom ALOX with scissors Start a thread with photos of at least 1 MTO branded tool in your collection Post your pocket dump photos then challenge two more members who must post their pocket dump photos within 24hrs for you to get the badge. Must post a step by step pictorial of a knife or multitool modification (scale swap not included) Must start a thread with a photo of your birth year SAK Must start a thread showing a photo of at least three BO tools Start a thread with photos of at least eight different colored ALOX models in your collection Start a new thread and post a photo of a flashlight as part of your EDC Start a thread with a photo of a repair you made with duct tape Start a new thread with a photo of custom or non standard SAK scales in your collection Must put something in order and provide link to the post.

00 Offline Adrian Nowak

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #101 on: September 11, 2025, 07:06:09 PM
Final version of Alox evolution tree. Picture is a low quality preview, not scalable. Download PDF, you can zoom with better graphics.
This chart contains regular production models, retired or discontinued models and Limited Edition models (just tool sets not colors) and two user made custom.

If anyone have a picture of Alox Mountaineer (I'm not sure if it was ever made), please send it to me so I can update this chart.

Also, if you make one, please send me the picture, I need real thing pictures. If you want to make a picture, please use uniform colored background. It is easier to remove background.

I can use Photohop to make a picture of that model but that's not the point. I, and WE, need real data.
I could also put a picture of Electrical Engineer I made myself, but I found nice real picture in blue made for VSAKCS.

There should be also newest Special Pioneer X, but it is not officially released yet. I know, I was talking to VSAKCS guy. Be patient. Look for updates.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2025, 07:18:09 PM by Adrian Nowak »

au Offline Echotech

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #102 on: September 12, 2025, 02:10:50 AM
Nice useful chart, thanks for doing it Adrian  :like:
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us Offline UscgSal

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #103 on: September 18, 2025, 07:36:59 PM
  [ You are not allowed to view this attachment ]  

SAK? Spartan set. Got to be over 100! Has a shield but.....

Thanks gang
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Was Tony Sal. Ts-cg@Hotmail but locked

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au Offline Huntsman

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #104 on: September 19, 2025, 04:31:50 AM
Interesting SAK ........ But probably not a SAK    :pok:   ;)
Merit Badges Must update or add a page on SAKWiki Start a new thread with photos of a Japanese made PST in your collection Take part in the christmas pool or a rak type giveaway. Those wanting to say thank you for a rak may also nominate for the santa. Must buy an item through the MTo Store Start a new thread with a photo of your custom ALOX with scissors Start a thread with photos of at least 1 MTO branded tool in your collection Post your pocket dump photos then challenge two more members who must post their pocket dump photos within 24hrs for you to get the badge. Must post a step by step pictorial of a knife or multitool modification (scale swap not included) Must start a thread with a photo of your birth year SAK Must start a thread showing a photo of at least three BO tools Start a thread with photos of at least eight different colored ALOX models in your collection Start a new thread and post a photo of a flashlight as part of your EDC Start a thread with a photo of a repair you made with duct tape Start a new thread with a photo of custom or non standard SAK scales in your collection Must put something in order and provide link to the post.

us Offline UscgSal

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #105 on: September 26, 2025, 07:01:08 PM
I have heard that Hunts, I spite of the shield.... Noted the crown on the blade?
It's me, back with new phone after retiring.
Was Tony Sal. Ts-cg@Hotmail but locked

Now Salimbenetony@Gmail
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us Offline AzteCypher

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #106 on: October 01, 2025, 05:40:10 AM
Are there any other markings anywhere?  It don't think it's a Queen Cutlery tang stamp but I can't tell too well.
May the best of your past, be the worst of your future.

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us Offline AzteCypher

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #107 on: October 09, 2025, 11:58:27 PM
UscgSal's SAK-A-Like really grabbed my attention so I went digging to see what I could find.  The scales remind me of a Pradel so it may be French knife.  Other companies copied the cross and shield as well.  If you click on the pictures it'll take you to the links I found concerning them.

      
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Offline Wurkerbee

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #108 on: November 26, 2025, 05:47:11 PM
Good afternoon,
I am trying to identify this SAK. I have not been able to find the symbol on it.
Thank you

au Offline Huntsman

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #109 on: November 26, 2025, 09:47:35 PM
Hello - Welcome to MTo

Cant help you with the query - Except to say that Bargeron was/is a French knife manufacturer - But I assume you know this awlready!
... And it looks old with MoP scales

I would recommend starting a new thread for this query - Then everyone will see it

This thread is really about standard Victorinox and Wenger Swiss Army Knives and their evolution
Merit Badges Must update or add a page on SAKWiki Start a new thread with photos of a Japanese made PST in your collection Take part in the christmas pool or a rak type giveaway. Those wanting to say thank you for a rak may also nominate for the santa. Must buy an item through the MTo Store Start a new thread with a photo of your custom ALOX with scissors Start a thread with photos of at least 1 MTO branded tool in your collection Post your pocket dump photos then challenge two more members who must post their pocket dump photos within 24hrs for you to get the badge. Must post a step by step pictorial of a knife or multitool modification (scale swap not included) Must start a thread with a photo of your birth year SAK Must start a thread showing a photo of at least three BO tools Start a thread with photos of at least eight different colored ALOX models in your collection Start a new thread and post a photo of a flashlight as part of your EDC Start a thread with a photo of a repair you made with duct tape Start a new thread with a photo of custom or non standard SAK scales in your collection Must put something in order and provide link to the post.

00 Offline jnoxyd

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #110 on: March 09, 2026, 10:59:34 AM
Here’s  a diagram showing the evolution of scissors on 91mm Victorinox knives. Your comments are welcome.
 

au Offline Huntsman

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #111 on: March 09, 2026, 12:37:07 PM
Amazing JNOX - Fabulous document - You know my next question don't you?
And I'm sure the answer will be 'Yes'  :pok: :tu:

One small point: I believe round about 1988 the scissor spring was changed adding a small bump on the end of the spring - Would it be worth including this?  :think: - Or maybe not as it is the scissor spring - Not the scissors? 

EDIT: Sorry being thick - I just realised that is what you mean by 'new spring tip style' -
Maybe specifically reference the 'bump'?   ???
Merit Badges Must update or add a page on SAKWiki Start a new thread with photos of a Japanese made PST in your collection Take part in the christmas pool or a rak type giveaway. Those wanting to say thank you for a rak may also nominate for the santa. Must buy an item through the MTo Store Start a new thread with a photo of your custom ALOX with scissors Start a thread with photos of at least 1 MTO branded tool in your collection Post your pocket dump photos then challenge two more members who must post their pocket dump photos within 24hrs for you to get the badge. Must post a step by step pictorial of a knife or multitool modification (scale swap not included) Must start a thread with a photo of your birth year SAK Must start a thread showing a photo of at least three BO tools Start a thread with photos of at least eight different colored ALOX models in your collection Start a new thread and post a photo of a flashlight as part of your EDC Start a thread with a photo of a repair you made with duct tape Start a new thread with a photo of custom or non standard SAK scales in your collection Must put something in order and provide link to the post.

00 Offline jnoxyd

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #112 on: March 09, 2026, 06:14:27 PM
Regarding the bump on the back spring of the scissors described by the jazzbass (I showed it in this thread earlier), I was going to show it at the bottom of the diagram and even prepared a place for it. However, I was told that the diagram should only cover the scissors themselves, and that changes of the different back springs and back tools better to show in a separate diagram.
Oh,  answer for your question is Yes of course  :hatsoff:

fr Offline SAKnife

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #113 on: March 10, 2026, 06:42:05 PM
Many thanks jnoxyd for that excellent scissors diagram — very useful reference.
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es Offline Gio_Luso

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #114 on: March 11, 2026, 01:43:59 PM
Quote from: jnoxyd on March 09, 2026, 10:59:34 AM
Here’s  a diagram showing the evolution of scissors on 91mm Victorinox knives. Your comments are welcome.



Impressive work. Thank you very much. :hatsoff:

fr Offline SAKnife

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #115 on: March 11, 2026, 10:29:00 PM
Inspired by the scissors diagrams above, I tried to summarize the evolution of Victorinox 91 mm pliers based on the examples I have on hand.
As always with this kind of reconstruction, corrections or additional observations are very welcome. :angel:

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au Offline Huntsman

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #116 on: March 12, 2026, 02:36:45 AM
Hey - That's great SAKnife - Thanks

How confident are you on the dates?  ??? They are slightly different from the dates in the Wiki and SAAMs
https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Pliers
https://web.archive.org/web/20230404010333/http://victorinox.metodi.me/91mmtools.php#pliers

Tool change dates are always a bit of an art rather than a science - But it would be good to align a little!

Also be good to call out the 'guiding groove' on the handle in 91>96
Merit Badges Must update or add a page on SAKWiki Start a new thread with photos of a Japanese made PST in your collection Take part in the christmas pool or a rak type giveaway. Those wanting to say thank you for a rak may also nominate for the santa. Must buy an item through the MTo Store Start a new thread with a photo of your custom ALOX with scissors Start a thread with photos of at least 1 MTO branded tool in your collection Post your pocket dump photos then challenge two more members who must post their pocket dump photos within 24hrs for you to get the badge. Must post a step by step pictorial of a knife or multitool modification (scale swap not included) Must start a thread with a photo of your birth year SAK Must start a thread showing a photo of at least three BO tools Start a thread with photos of at least eight different colored ALOX models in your collection Start a new thread and post a photo of a flashlight as part of your EDC Start a thread with a photo of a repair you made with duct tape Start a new thread with a photo of custom or non standard SAK scales in your collection Must put something in order and provide link to the post.

fr Offline SAKnife

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #117 on: March 12, 2026, 08:43:46 AM
Everything can be modified, no problem 👍

1988: in both the 1987 catalogue and the 1987 leaflets, the pliers shown are the 2.5 mm version. I did not find any 1988 documentation, but in the 1989 Swiss Army Brands catalogue the Deluxe Tinker is pictured with the 2nd generation 3 mm pliers. I assumed the photos were taken some months before publication, so I retained 1988 as the transition point.

1991: this is a conservative estimate. On several “1991 hybrid” knives I have observed (a few SwissChamp, Handyman, Craftsman, Deluxe Tinker, etc.), combining the multipurpose hook with features still typical of the 1980s (such as the older blade tang stamp or scissors with screwed pivot), the pliers already have the guiding groove.

1999: perhaps a bit easier — I have a SwissChamp France ’98 without the punch, and a SwissChamp engraved 1999 for an event which does include the punch 😊
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0960/4864/4443/files/Screenshot_2026-03-12-08-01-51-33_92460851df6f172a4592fca41cc2d2e6.jpg?v=1773301368

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0960/4864/4443/files/IMG_20260312_084302.jpg?v=1773301397

100% happy to adjust if better observations appear — that is exactly the goal of this diagram.

SAKnife
Swiss Army Knife collector notes
https://SAKnife.com

00 Offline jnoxyd

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Re: SAK / Swisstool dating and identification resources
Reply #118 on: March 12, 2026, 03:20:53 PM
Nice work SAKnife! Now we have “a dot on rivet” riddle solved!

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