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Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT

gr Offline firiki

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #60 on: March 24, 2017, 10:54:22 AM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Interesting thread, thanks :tu:
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au Offline ReamerPunch

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england Offline Kev D

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #62 on: March 24, 2017, 11:52:21 AM
I'm not a fan of gerbers, but the more I read the more I'm liking the centre drive


au Offline ReamerPunch

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #63 on: March 24, 2017, 12:00:41 PM
Same here. Well, kind of the same. I do not have anything against Gerber, it's just the bashing that got to me. I have a Dime, two EABs, and a MP400. The plier on the 400 is so nice, I usually grab that one, rather than remove my Rebar from the pouch or go for a big tool.

I passed by Bunnings on my way home today, and they finally brought Gerbers. I really liked the CenterDrive's size. I could see myself using it, and I do want a full size Gerber anyway.


au Offline gregozedobe

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #64 on: March 24, 2017, 12:12:13 PM
....  wire cutters are for wire and not stainless steel rod.

The Gerber replaceable wire cutters are quite hard (and therefore brittle).  They will stand up to a lot of wear cutting softer wire (eg copper, soft steel), but are known to shatter if you force them on harder materials (eg tough stainless steel).  That is no doubt one of the reasons Leatherman chose a softer (but less brittle) material for their replaceable wire cutters (less likely to shatter, but more likely to wear with continuous usage).
babola: "Enjoy your tools and don't be afraid to air your opinion and feelings here, but do it in courteous and respectable way toward others, of course."


england Offline Kev D

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #65 on: March 24, 2017, 12:16:32 PM
Same here. Well, kind of the same. I do not have anything against Gerber, it's just the bashing that got to me. I have a Dime, two EABs, and a MP400. The plier on the 400 is so nice, I usually grab that one, rather than remove my Rebar from the pouch or go for a big tool.

I passed by Bunnings on my way home today, and they finally brought Gerbers. I really liked the CenterDrive's size. I could see myself using it, and I do want a full size Gerber anyway.

I've got a MP400 that lives in my car along side a surge. I've used it all of 3 times since it's been in there, and it only usually sees the light of day for to get some anti corrosion maintenance which consists of a wipe over with the same oil I use on my air rifle. If i buy one it will probably end up the same way as the surge is my go to tool.


id Offline jaya_man

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #66 on: March 24, 2017, 01:42:40 PM
Very nice comparison review Def...

I don't own both and was just wondering, will there be some kind of actual use test comparing performance? Or has anybody done so.

Part 1 got me really curious about the CD and went to look at some reviews over at youtube.

A video by wealljuggleknives says that the serrated blade on the cd is not sharp as compared to a SAK, an MP600 (I think) and some LM tools (don't remember which model) and even shows this with a papercut test.

On another video by someone else, the replaceable wire cutters shattered while trying to cut a stainless steel wire. The CD belonged to this guy's friend.


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One, cutting paper with a serrated blade is a silly test. Two, wire cutters are for wire and not stainless steel rod.
You have a point there Z... was just amazed how the other serrated blades cut paper like butter...


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us Offline G-Dizzle

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #67 on: March 24, 2017, 02:25:11 PM
Very nice comparison review Def...

I don't own both and was just wondering, will there be some kind of actual use test comparing performance? Or has anybody done so.

Part 1 got me really curious about the CD and went to look at some reviews over at youtube.

A video by wealljuggleknives says that the serrated blade on the cd is not sharp as compared to a SAK, an MP600 (I think) and some LM tools (don't remember which model) and even shows this with a papercut test.

On another video by someone else, the replaceable wire cutters shattered while trying to cut a stainless steel wire. The CD belonged to this guy's friend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

One, cutting paper with a serrated blade is a silly test. Two, wire cutters are for wire and not stainless steel rod.
You have a point there Z... was just amazed how the other serrated blades cut paper like butter...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If a serrated blade is sharp enough it will glide right through paper even when passing through multiple scallops on the blade. Paper isn't really a good way of telling it's actual effectiveness, but it is cool to see the serrations perform just as well if not better than a plain edge at it. If the center drive doesn't come as sharp, all one would need to do is just sharpen is on a sharp-maker or other triangle stone for it to be just as sharp. That said, maybe the average person doesn't have a triangle stone laying around.


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #68 on: March 24, 2017, 03:54:42 PM
This is it, the Grande Finale!  Buckle up boys and girls!

Part 4- Other Components

Overview

The Leatherman One Handed Tool (OHT) is well known for having all of it's tools accessible with one hand.  What they don't tell you is that you still need two hands, because half of the tools are accessible with your left hand, and half of them are accessible with your right hand.  Conversely, only the bit driver and main blade on the Center-Drive are accessible with one hand.  This makes the first point in Part 4 Leatherman's.

The other functions of each multitool all lock open- on the OHT they lock open with liner type locks while the Center-Drive uses Gerber's patented SAF-T-LOK system for everything but the bit driver that give the Center-Drive it's name.  Both are even in this regard- neither one feels flimsy or inclined to fail, both are easy to release when desired

Screwdrivers



This one is a bit difficult to judge-  nothing is as easy as it seems.  On the surface, the Center Drive should take this one hands down, as the fold out screwdriver is so integral to it's instant success that it shouldn't have an issue dominating the screwdriver battle.

BUT...

Without the spare bits the Center-Drive is limited to two screwdrivers, the bit in the driver, and the bit in the carrier inside the handle.  With the spare bits the Center-Drive is significantly more versatile, but then the sheath comes in a lot bulkier, but as we determined in Part 1, we aren't counting add on accessories in this competition.



Compared to the Center-Drive's two on board screwdrivers, the OHT has four- three flat heads and a Phillips head.  The two dedicated flat heads are not too bad due to the great variation is size, but the third one on the strap cutter (discussed later) is a medium size, and somewhat pointless.  I don't see there being many opportunities to use this one that couldn't just as easily be managed by either of the other two.  And, there's some concern about twisting the rather thin blade if you put too much effort into it.



And, the dedicated flat heads are a bit stubby, but the Phillips is much nicer, with about an inch and a half of reach to get recessed screws almost anywhere, and being thinner than the bit driver on the Center-Drive it fits more places.

It's a tough decision here, much tougher than it should be considering that this is the main reason for the Center-Drive.

In the end I think this point has to go to Gerber.  The bit driver adds versatility as bits are available everywhere, and to a Canadian like me, who encounters Robertson and Torx bits everywhere, that versatility matters.  Plus, the Center-Drive ergonomics mean driving long screws is a lot easier on the wrist.

Bottle Opener



Both tools have gone in very different directions with the bottle openers.  Leatherman put their standard can and bottle opener combo tool on the OHT, and, while it can be effective enough, I have never been a big fan of it.  As a can opener it functions well enough, but I find that as a bottle opener it tends to just pierce the cap and not remove it.



Meanwhile the Center-Drive suffers from the same issue we looked at yesterday with the serrated blade- you have to deploy the plier head, open the handles, pull out the bottle opener, then close the handles and retract the pliers to use it, then repreat the process to put it away. 

In reality it's not that bad, as, unlike the serrated blade, you can use the bottle opener with the handles open.  Since it's a bottle opener, you won't cut yourself like you would with the serrated blade, and opening bottles is generally a quick operation.



Further, the Center-Drive opener is a lot more effective at pulling a cap off a bottle, which is largely the point of a bottle opener.

The Center-Drive bottle opener is also a light duty prybar, which is honestly something I personally use more than I need a can opener.  One could argue that the flat head drivers on the OHT can be used for prying as well, but it does not have the nail puller notch or the angled cat's paw for leverage.

While the OHT bottle opener is easier to access, the fact that it is barely useful as a bottle opener and my lack of a personal need for a can opener means that the Center-Drive gets this point, despite being more involved to make use of it.  The better function makes it worth the extra effort to get out.

Other Tools

It is hard to compare the remaining tools, as they aren't the same.  Instead, I will rank them on their own merit, and award points based on whether they are useful or not.

The final tools on the OHT are a strap cutter and a wood saw, both of which are well made enough, although not perfect. 



As mentioned above, the strap cutter has a medium flat head at the end, which I find rather flimsy feeling.  I can't shake the feeling that the cutout for the blade makes it a bit thin to use as a screwdriver, and the heat treat would either make it too brittle to use as a screwdriver or too soft to have much of an edge on the blade.  It really does have to be one or the other, and so while I appreciate the dual functions, I can't help but feel they are at odds with eachother.



And then they put a giant opening hole in the middle of it. :facepalm:

Even more awkward is the fact that the outer point of the cutter sticks out a bit too far.  If you try to use this while cutting clothing away from an injury, it seems all too easy to accidentally hook something you don't want to.

All in all, I really can't give them a point for the cutter.  I think it was a good idea to have one, I just think this is the wrong way to do it. 



So, that brings us to the OHT's wood saw.  It is a typical Leatherman saw with good, bi-directional teeth and it cuts well.  It does however suffer from being stubby, as many tools on the OHT do.  Still, it is functional, despite not really being able to get a good draw on it, so Leatherman gets a point.  You can see in the above photo that my OHT saw has been well used, most recently with drywall!

The Center-Drive actually has either two or three other features, depending on whether you count a lanyard attachment.  Ordinarily I am not a fan of plastic lanyard attachment points, but this one does seem about as solid as it could possibly get, and so I am forced to admit that it's a good thing on the Center-Drive.  And, if like me, you aren't likely to use it as a lanyard attachment point, it makes a very handy ramp to make it easier to pull out of the sheath, especially when you carry it horizontally in the sheath.  Point for Gerber.



Inside the handles you have an awl, which is very robust and pointy and a two sided file.

The awl is not bad, but not good either.  It is very thick and comes to a really wicked point, but it isn't sharpened and it doesn't have a sewing eye, two things that would have been very easy to include.  I also find it a bit on the bulky side, and honestly I am not sure what use I would get out of it- because it's so hefty, I can't help but feel that I might as well use the blade, which is much easier to access.  Sorry Gerber, no point for you!



Lastly we have the file.  As has been speculated before, the Center-Drive is meant for mechanics and tinkerers, and so the file is a good thing to have.  Personally I rarely find myself using the file for much of anything, and when I do use them, I am usually kind of picky.  I would have loved to see a diamond file on this one, and, if not a diamond then at least put metal saw teeth on the bottom, like other manufacturers do with their saws.  It seems that, without a method of cutting PVC, aluminum or light gauge steel pipe that this one really missed the mark, especially considering the target market.  Honestly, I would rather see a nice pair of Fiskars scissors in there- Gerber doesn't seem to use that resource as much as they should these days. 



I really want to award this point to Gerber since the file is absolutely good for what it is and what it is meant for, but like the awl, I would have liked to have seen something better or something different.  Harsh I know, but again, I just can't give it to them. 

Score:

Today:
Leatherman 2
Gerber 2

Total:
Leatherman 9
Gerber 9

Part 4 Summary:

There you have it- a dead tie.

Yeah, it surprised me as well.

I personally would never choose the OHT as I really don't like it.  It is absolutely not Leatherman's finest creation by far, and, while it seems like I have been against Leatherman from the start of this, the fact is, even when they don't make a good tool, they make a good tool.  There are lots of other Leatherman models that I do like (very much) so I am not a Leatherman hater by far- I just don't like this particular tool.  But, in the end, it put up a good fight and has absolutely nothing to be ashamed of.

The Center-Drive is a tool I like, and I enjoy using.  It has quickly become a part of my regular rotation, right up there with the Leatherman Surge, which is one of those models that I alluded to when I said I liked Leatherman products very much.  What Gerber has produced here is an excellent tool that I fully recommend to anyone, both because it is a solid tool, and because if you did have problems with it, Gerber's customer service has proven time and again to be absolutely top notch- not to suggest Leatherman's is any different, but again, I don't care for the OHT and (personally) wouldn't recommend it to anyone, despite it's excellent showing in the above examination!

Summary

In the end, you really can't go wrong with either of these tools, if I'm to be honest.  As we've seen, they both have their strengths and weaknesses, and my best suggestion if you are trying to decide between these two is to read through the detailed analysis I have posted above, decide which functions you need or want, and make your choice based on which one has the most strengths that go in line with your needs.  Then, if you have the opportunity, handle both of them and see which one you are more comfortable with.

As much as I personally prefer the Center-Drive to the OHT, I really wouldn't be upset if I was stranded somewhere with either of them- because honestly, I would rather have either of them than nothing else, and both will do almost any job you need doing.

There you go- I hope you all enjoyed reading this series as much as I enjoyed writing it.  It originally was supposed to be one post, but as I started really looking at things and picking out details the post just kept getting longer and longer and longer.  Still, getting all the photos together, organising my thoughts, searching through the tiniest details and following up on getting accurate details was a lot of fun even though it was also a fair bit of work.

And, I just finished the write up an hour or so ago, and I am just as surprised by the outcome as anyone!

Def
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au Offline ReamerPunch

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #69 on: March 24, 2017, 04:13:00 PM
 :like: :like: :like:


I did not see that coming. Excellent points made, this is hands down the best comparison I have ever read.  :salute:

I still like the CD better. The OHT is too wide, and the pliers are tiny. Isn't the plier head comparable to the Juice?

I'd say, made the head larger, get rid of the hook so the blade is as long as it can be, get rid of a flathead or the can-opener and make the saw longer. Maybe add the Surge reamer, why not.

Even the CD can be improved. Drop the serrated blade for a saw, and the file for a hacksaw holder, and put an actual reamer instead of that balloon buster. Why not have double sided bits too?

As it is, I am warming up to the CD by the day.


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #70 on: March 24, 2017, 04:55:12 PM
:like: :like: :like:


I did not see that coming. Excellent points made, this is hands down the best comparison I have ever read.  :salute:

I still like the CD better. The OHT is too wide, and the pliers are tiny. Isn't the plier head comparable to the Juice?

I'd say, made the head larger, get rid of the hook so the blade is as long as it can be, get rid of a flathead or the can-opener and make the saw longer. Maybe add the Surge reamer, why not.

Even the CD can be improved. Drop the serrated blade for a saw, and the file for a hacksaw holder, and put an actual reamer instead of that balloon buster. Why not have double sided bits too?

As it is, I am warming up to the CD by the day.

I almost agree with you totally... :D

If it was my choice on the Center-Drive, I'd swap the file for the saw holder that we see on the Pro Scout and get rid of the serrated blade in favor of the scissors.  I'm torn on the awl, but maybe either make it more functional or swap it out for something else- maybe a can opener?

As for the OHT, well, I'd like to see a better version of the strap cutter, maybe more in the shape of the SOG V Cutter, and ditch the screwdriver tip.  I'd love to see a longer blade more than anything else I think, and yeah, slim down the handles and build up the head so they look like they belong to the same bloody tool.   :facepalm:

Def
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us Offline Monrogue

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #71 on: March 24, 2017, 05:58:07 PM
This has been an excellent comparison and read Grant :salute:

Oh, and.....:popcorn:


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us Offline G-Dizzle

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #72 on: March 24, 2017, 07:27:27 PM
Great comparison and writeup!! :tu: i have enjoyed it!!


nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #73 on: March 24, 2017, 07:48:31 PM
In a hurry so I skim read (will come back and read properly later) but thought I should point out that the giant opening hole is an oxygen wrench.


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #74 on: March 24, 2017, 07:57:16 PM
So... another useless function then.   ::)

Def
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nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #75 on: March 24, 2017, 08:03:49 PM
Call it a d shackle wrench then...


us Offline MusicMen

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #76 on: March 24, 2017, 08:22:45 PM
Exellent comparson! I personally have the CD as my work tool and love it.
BUCK: X-Tract, 360
GERBER: Clutch, Shortcut, Dime*, DimE*, Octane & Crucial FAST
MP600 NN, CentreDrive, Grappler
Diesel*, Nickle*, Bullrush, MP600 BN, Flik & MP600DET* all in BO
LEATHERMAN: Skeletool, Style PS, CS, ES* & Style*, Juice S2(X2), SC2, C2, Pro, XE6
Crunch, MTO Style CS, Sideclip, BO Kick*
SOG: PowerAccess, Blacktip*, HD PPP
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us Offline Poncho65

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #77 on: March 24, 2017, 09:03:52 PM
Excellent comparison Grant :tu: I uave neither and have heard good and bad of both but this comparison really is a tell all for both of these tools :cheers: Thanks for taking the time to take the pics and type all this out for us :like: :like:


scotland Offline Sea Monster

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #78 on: March 24, 2017, 11:06:00 PM
What I'm reading is that the OHT is a better tool, just needs some rearranging to be more intuitive?

Quote
Two, wire cutters are for wire and not stainless steel rod.

The LM PST cuts stainless steel tig welding rod with aplomb, that's my standard for MT cutters, and if they can't still do it 20 years later, they F'd up.

Quote
my lack of a personal need for a can opener means that the Center-Drive gets this point,

My personal need for can opener is quite high, I probably open a can every other day when cooking dinner.

HAVING SAID THAT - the CD is a "work" tool, if you're using one in the kitchen, perhaps you bought the wrong tool, so I give them no discredit for not having one on there - Same goes for the LM OHT, it has more outdoorsy potential, and people in those realms might have more use for a can opener.

I love a good comparo with close ups as much as the next tool fancier, but I can't help but feel, though these are similar designs and hence the call for a "shoot out", they're not aimed at the same segment of the MT market.



ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #79 on: March 25, 2017, 12:52:22 AM
Maybe, maybe not.  I just thought that it isn't too often we find two such similar (overall) tools from two different manufacturers that it might be worth a bit of a head to head test.  When you really lay it out, they are very similar with the exception of two functions each, out of a manufacturer specified 16.  That means they have 14 things in common, so they can't be aimed at that different a group of people.

But then the OHT is offered in coyote tan and black on black, so it must be meant for hardcore military tactical operators who don't really exist because of the black bag nature of their exploits, right?   ::)

If they want to market it to actual outdoors people, make it high visibility orange or that weird green/yellow color so that the mountain biker in the woods doing a quick repair or adjustment on his (or her) bike can find the darn thing again after they put it down.  In this old SOSAK article you see how easy it is to lose something black in even shallow water.



So, you know, if you want to market to outdoor people, maybe you should think about that.

Which illustrates the absolute fail of the whole OHT concept as it is.... Leatherman specifically developed the OHT to be released immediately upon expiry of the Gerber sliding head patent so that Leatherman could compete with military contracts that specifically called for sliding head pliers because the military likes Gerber.  But they did such a crappy job on the OHT and priced it so high that no military force is ever going to use it. 

And the worst part? 

You'd think that Leatherman would have learned that from the MUT, which was also aimed at the military (no pun intended) but even the guy they claimed co-designed it told me in person that it wasn't likely to be used by the military, and that if his weapon jammed when the poop hit the fan, he wasn't going to use the MUT to unjam it, he was going to toss it and pick up another from someone who wasn't using theirs anymore.

So, basically a fail, piled on top of a fail that was developed to expand on a failed concept that failed to do what it was supposed to right out of the gate.

I'm so glad that Leatherman produced the ST300 and Rebar, because I think they'd be in real trouble if they didn't occasionally show that they are still capable of making real tools.

Def
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us Offline pa_strunk

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #80 on: March 25, 2017, 01:28:02 AM
Great stuff, you more than exceeded expectations and "kept it real". Can't stand those I got this tool from UPS 10 minutes ago and now I'm McGuyver reviews. Strong work.  :tu:
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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #81 on: March 25, 2017, 01:34:23 AM
You and me both.  Between the 5 minute experts and the guys that post things like "This multitool is junk.  I hit it only three times with a 5 pound sledge hammer and it broke" I am just about done with tool reviews from other sources.

I am not trying to say that everyone else is an idiot, but at least you can count on real experience and use here at Multitool.org!

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline Aloha

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #82 on: March 25, 2017, 06:39:42 AM
Bit of a surprise to me as well.  I have no experience with the Center Drive but where the OHT does lack it seems it doesn't lack terribly as some would or did say.  This is not to say lacking is a good thing. 

These are the type reviews that I know I appreciate especially when I'm looking at several tools. 

Thanks for all the work done on this. 

Esse Quam Videri


cy Offline dks

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #83 on: March 25, 2017, 08:02:52 AM
Next you lot will complain about people who can barely swim reviewing diver watches, and arquing with each other with respect to depth ratings......

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Al : "Women!"

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ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #84 on: March 25, 2017, 01:11:49 PM
You mean like how the human body doesn't fare so well at 350m below the surface?  :whistle:

Def
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cy Offline dks

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #85 on: March 25, 2017, 01:21:10 PM
..amongst others...
Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

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us Offline Kampfer

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #86 on: March 27, 2017, 06:00:26 PM
I have a incoming center drive.
EDC: Black Talon, Black Cat, Spirit, LD02


us Offline G-Dizzle

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #87 on: March 27, 2017, 06:22:16 PM


us Offline Kampfer

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #88 on: March 30, 2017, 06:06:45 PM
I have a incoming center drive.
Received it yesterday, I am impressed, definitely the best Gerber tool so far, many improvements were made. It doesn't offer too many functions but it performs well for everything it does, I can see it would be useful for handyman or construction workers who use the tool a lot.

However, it is a huge tool, not sure it is the right EDC choice for normal people.
Also It carrys two bits within, that means two sizes of driver. I feel it is a little lacking IF it is carried without the bit kit.

I am going to pass it to my handy brother for further evaluation.
EDC: Black Talon, Black Cat, Spirit, LD02


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Gerber Center-Drive vs Leatherman OHT
Reply #89 on: March 30, 2017, 06:55:06 PM
Luckily we have lots of people here that are just as abnormal as your brother!  :D

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


 

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