New Victorinox Forum Coming

[pfrsantos]

One thing to remember: Victorinox serves a mass market. They aren't designed to cater to individual needs. I don't think they care if they lose a few percent to modders/alternatives. They can't please everyone. And that's okay. There are plenty of small manufacturers where you can order/have your custom knife made, with the steel you want, with the scale of your choice. You just won't pay $20 or $30 for it, but easily $200-$300.
What I know for sure: if Victorinox saw great potential in something (different steel, different scales, different tools), they would produce it. In the past, they've tried countless things, some successfully, some not. What's no longer available wasn't successful. It's that simple.
I see it with tourists who come here by the thousands. In the knife shops: they want the red Victorinox SAK, nothing else. No SWIZA, no products from Solingen, no expensive custom knives. Why? Because they're familiar with it, because it stands for durability, Swissness, and high quality at a good price. SAK with wooden scales? No thanks, that's definitely not a real SAK.

Oh, man! I'm so gullible and stupid! I probably should try to join that new forum so I could learn how to tell if I'm looking at a real SAK or not! I just realised I have recently bought almost a dozen fakes!

 

Thanks for the heads up, elsinox!

 

I'll leave some pics of those knives here, in the hope of preventing others from being scammed, like I was. I'll hide them, so as not to fill this thread with pics of counterfeit items.

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Be warned, there's a lot of these around. Don't make the same mistake as I did. Ready?

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[LoopCutter]

That quote from Elaine’s explains so much !

When traveling Michigan for work, a big box retailer name Meijer’s had Victorinox red type knives on display in Sporting Goods, along side Buck knives.

The strange thing was I could never find a Spartan model on display, except with wooden scales.  Looked so out of place, I just ignored. 

In Indiana, the Red scales on a Spartan are on displayed.

I asked an employee who looked important about the reason his store only that those wooden Spartans?

He said, buyers tried multiple times to request the Spartans be made with GREEN so they would honor the Michigan State University mascot, the SPARTAN.
Instead of saying no, they never sent any GREEN ones, just these wooden ones.   🙄🙄🙄. Here they were fakes!!!!

[Grant Lamontagne]

For obvious reasons I have been staying out of this, but I don't think I have that luxury anymore. 

Honestly I think that we can all get by without being rude to each other- that is not what MTO and the Swiss Army Knights is about.  It never has been, and if it's what we become, then I think we need to shut the place down and go to Facebook where you can be as big a d*ck as you like.   

First off, I appreciate everyone coming to support MTO, and defend our honor- YOUR honor, because this place is shaped by and exists because of all of you.

But on to the nitty gritty- is it cool to discuss the Victorinox Forum here?

Abso-smurfing-lutely.

It's a big internet, and there is space for all of us to discuss SAKs, and undoubtedly some of us will feel more comfortable over there and maybe drift away from MTO. 

Does that make them our competitor?

I mean, maybe, if we were trying to compete, which we aren't. 

The reality is they will be offering a very different product than we are, and some will prefer it there, some will prefer it here, and many will straddle both forums.  It's not an "us or them" type situation, and everyone is welcome to visit both forums and be happy.

For the record, the folks at Victorinox, who I do talk to from time to time (yes, we do have a direct line to Victorinox in Ibach and Connecticut, several in fact), have the utmost respect for us, for SAKWiki and for everything we have built here.  We are an invaluable resource for them (their words, not mine) and they have indicated that SAKWiki is a resource they use in house, frequently.

I don't have to tell you all that there is no higher praise than a Swiss company using our records because they are more complete and easier to access than their own, internal records. 

I feel like any info and insight that can be gleaned over there will eventually trickle over here, just as much of what we have done will be referenced over there.  I think there is a lot we can do to make BOTH forums more valuable, and I look forward to that.

I hope you all do too.   

Def

[Farmer X]

What Def said.

I will add that Gordon's experience with SAKs on offer at Meijer is somewhat different from mine. Those in the suburbs have a small selection of SAKs (I was once badly tempted by a Cadet, but as I'd want to get a silver one engraved, I passed). However, the two stores in Detroit have nary an SAK on offer. You're lucky to find a cheapie Coleman hobo in those stores.

[LoopCutter]

I will clarify, that my last time worked in Michigan and visited  stores there was at least 6 years or longer ago.

Since, Meijer’s knives inventory as been decreased significantly..

[Swisster]

The new Victorinox Forum is really serving nothing but being an apologists forum for super fans to make excuse for Victorinox and to fish for information so corporate Victorinox can be more of a corporate giant and serve their shareholders. It's obvious the ship is slowly sinking and they are grasping at straws. That is what they get for going full out corporate mode from the mid 1980's and onward. They could have stayed the ship and kept from going full on corporate greed mess but they chose to go in the way of shareholders and want bailed out. I'm not going to shed a tear for them and the direction they allowed the company to go away from it's core of cutlery and try to be mega brand of anything and everything. They have reaped what they have sowed and karma has comeback on them. Should haven't been so overtly greedy attempting to mega brand and the public has seen through it and Victorinox is not deemed so cool anymore like many other corporations that became greedy brand everything sellouts. To me it's a shame the direction Victorinox has chosen since it's mega expansion in the mid 80's. There is a price to be counted for greed in the consumer sphere. Putting your badge on everything has made them uncool to much of the public now and I see why

[gustophersmob]

I highly doubt the higher-ups at Vic just woke up one day and decided, “let’s be greedy now.” I think there are other more likely explanations.

For one, most of their expansion into “lifestyle” products was driven by the bans of knives on planes post 9/11. They have publicly stated that they try to never lay off employees and are a good company to work for, so I think a lot of these efforts are to make sure the company stays viable over the long term.

Regarding the “shareholders;” they are basically Victorinox themselves:

“[…] Victorinox Foundation which holds 90 % of the share capital of Victorinox AG. The remaining 10 % belongs to the non-profit Carl and Elise Elsener-Gut Foundation.”

[Swisster]

Victorinox was branding anything and everything in the 90's but the apologists will always come out with the weak 9-11 excuse as a cover over and it's become like some sort of lame mission statement of having to diversify after 9-11 to make it seem as if they weren't already greedy branding whores. It never stops amazing me how brand super fans will defend their brand idols that they worship. It's even worse on the Victorinox Forum. It's as if it's a complete refusal to except truth or facts because they are in their brand obsession fantasy. Cognitive Dissonance on high. LOL !!! People seem to enjoy and love worshipping their golden calves and don't seem to have much consciousness of it because they are in their cognitive dissonance mode and becomes like their religion and nationality. It's kind of scary , weird and creepy all at the same time but I shouldn't be surprised to find this in obsessive groups. Classic cognitive dissonance 101. I have come to expect it and my words fall on deaf ears and eyes that are scaled over. Hopefully you won't have to eat your golden calves ,you defenders of the Victorinox faith. LOL !!!

[Huntsman]

Thank you for your reasoned response gustophersmob and for correcting Swisster's incorrect view of Vic's corporate structure.

As a regular member of MTo - I like to take what colleagues say here at face value (... moderator comment later)
But Swisster I have gotta say this: Where are you getting all this sh1t from? 
Because this is what it sounds like to me ......   

From everything I have read (and this is quite a bit) Vic is an incredibly moral company that cares about its employees and the longevity of the company (hence the Trust) - They never made any one redundant, even when they fully absorbed Wenger. They are extremely green and environmentally aware - The factory heats local houses w recycled heat, they run their  company on the family's Christian morals and for me it would be hard to find a more admirable company

Their executives take very modest salaries and benefits (Carl Elsener Snr cycled to work). They are extremely proud of their history, products and what they have done for Switzerland. Ask any people what they know about Switzerland and the SAK will be in the top 5.

Anyone in business knows that diversification and constant innovation is essential for survival, hence their foray into travel gear, watches and fashion - Especially after 9-11 - and a general increase in anti-knife laws from many stupid governments - this became even more important - What is wrong w that? SO fashion did not work out - Close that product line and carry on.

I am extremely sad that their SAK product lines are constantly declining - But just like diversification and innovation are important - So is efficiency and relevance to market - If people don't / won't / can't buy or carry knives any more - What are you going to do - Carry on making them? Or adapt to current needs (bladeless models) maybe even configurable models - we know Vic are looking at both of these - and of course other product lines   

Also not that keen on their limited and exclusive editions - the annual alox LEs are overpriced (IMHO) and the White Stuff thing was a joke. It would be great to see more stuff for the core users, but sounds like this is coming (check out John Gadget's YT videos). But what Vic are doing is nothing say compared to LM with Garage, Arc, Free etc etc

And what is wrong with them setting up a forum to get closer to their enormous and passionate fan, collector and user base. What company in their right mind does not do that in one form or other

I for one think the forum itself (operationally) is very basic and pretty user-unfriendly, say compared to here.
But as Elsi pointed out it is a unique forum with access directly to Victorinox - What is wrong w that?

Everyone here is welcome to their opinions and we accept and love and respect the diversity we have here at MTo
But I gotta say ......  show us the evidence for your outrageous claims
The financial/sales/revenue evidence for 'Vic being a sinking ship'
The evidence for 'Vic being greedy and branding everything in the 90s.'
The evidence for the SAK Knights Forum 'refusal to accept truth or facts'
- What are these facts people are refusing to accept - Your words don't even make sense !!

And speaking as a moderator now your accusations against your fellow members are out of order
Being an enthusiastic fan collector/activator/participant and being positive is a good thing in any hobby, sport, profession  ..... But accusing everyone of cognitive dissonance  .... come on 

[gustophersmob]

Very good points, Hunstman, and you put it better than I did.  I think Victorinox has been very vocal and upfront about their priorities as a company, those being what you said: the longevity of the company, care for their employees, and being good for their community.  An I think their actions show they are serious about those commitments.  When viewed with that lens, I am less cynical about their efforts to grow their brand than I potentially would be with other companies.

[29roadie]

Swisster or Alox69 over on the other forum you really have an axe to grind don’t you?

I think the more sites and forums the better. Is there really any downside?
There is always attrition on every forum.
If you work on building friendships wherever you go you’ll always return and people will be happy to chat with you.
If someone’s negative and confrontational they won’t be missed.
There’s probably a forum for those kind of people too. The ones who get a rush out of trying to start smurf.
Actually there is. It’s called Facebook.