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Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??

875fps · 32 · 5015

Offline 875fps

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Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
on: May 18, 2017, 11:29:30 PM
I've played with modding SAKs on and off for a couple years now but nothing too serious.  Mostly taking a Pioneer and adding scissors.  And I use the 1/8" pivots and torx screws so the difference in pivot hole sizes isn't a big deal.  I ordered a few barrel pivots from KnifeKits and then found that you guys seem to prefer the ones from Alpha Knife Supply.  Are they really that much better?

I'm getting the bug again and there's always been a model I've wanted to make and it seems to be a lot more elusive than I thought ... a 93mm with inline Phillips.

Here's my ideal layout:

Electrician blade and either the standard flathead or a Combo Tool
Scissors
Inline Phillips and ??

It looks like I'm stuck pulling the Combo Tool from a 91mm Compact, right?  I actually ordered an 84mm Waiter a couple days ago but after doing a bit more research, I'm learning that when SAKWiki says the 84/91 Combo Tools are interchangeable, that's not 100% accurate.  lol

Scissors (with a solid backspring) is easy now due to the Pioneer X.

The one thing I'm currently struggling with is what donor knife to source the inline Phillips from.  The SAKWiki doesn't have a listing of all the knives that come with that tool listed like they do with the Combo Tool.

So my main two questions:
What's the best donor knife and does the 91mm Phillips tool require any modifications?
What else would be a good fit to sit opposite the Phillips?  I don't really need anything else.... Actually I'm not sure what springs the Phillips needs which would also help...

And here's an off the wall bonus question ... I put a knife together the other night and the awl tool scratched the mess out of the backspring.  I had to file them both down to get the scratches out and every time I put it together it would put these huge gashes in the spring again.  Have you guys experienced that at all?  I haven't been able to figure out what in the world is going on.


id Offline jaya_man

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Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #1 on: May 19, 2017, 02:11:36 AM
I would suggest you get an explorer for the inline phillips... that's the thinnest model with that tool...

As for what goes opposite it:

1. 2in1 layer... both openers across the phillips... you will need 2 opener backsprings though

2. I've seen a mod with just the bottle opener across the phillips... not too sure what backspring is used though...

3. The mag glass opposite the inline phillips.


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us Offline tallowwaters

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #2 on: May 21, 2017, 04:38:09 PM
Knife kits pivots have crap tolerances, AKS is far better.  Thanks to Syph for that tip.
Explorer is going to be the easiest and cheapest SAK with Phillips.
I use the main blade/awl spring for my Phillips layer.

You can put the Phillips with washer/spacer across from both openers with 2 backsprings or across from the cap lifter using the thick awl spacer.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 04:40:07 PM by tallowwaters »


Offline 875fps

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #3 on: May 22, 2017, 09:57:58 PM
For you guys that use 91mm as donor knives, what do you do with your spare Alox scales?  Also, when you have something HAIII coated, can you pick whatever color you want or does it have to match the existing scale color?

Knife kits pivots have crap tolerances, AKS is far better.  Thanks to Syph for that tip.
Explorer is going to be the easiest and cheapest SAK with Phillips.
I use the main blade/awl spring for my Phillips layer.

You can put the Phillips with washer/spacer across from both openers with 2 backsprings or across from the cap lifter using the thick awl spacer.

I've seen Syph mention the AKS pivots several times.  Unfortunately, I went with the KK ones before I saw his recommendation.  They require a lot of sanding to get down to 0.125.  Won't make that mistake again.

Thanks for the tip on the Phillips.  Cap lifter / Phillips, Scissors, and that small Electrician blade plus something else (maybe the larger blade?) would be a pretty ideal setup.


I would suggest you get an explorer for the inline phillips... that's the thinnest model with that tool...

As for what goes opposite it:

1. 2in1 layer... both openers across the phillips... you will need 2 opener backsprings though

2. I've seen a mod with just the bottle opener across the phillips... not too sure what backspring is used though...

3. The mag glass opposite the inline phillips.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've seen that patented 2in1 layer and it's a pretty ingenious idea.  I don't really need a can opener, though, and would like to save as much space as possible on my main carry blade.

Thanks for the tips!


wales Offline hiraethus

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #4 on: May 22, 2017, 10:30:27 PM
Have a look at this: https://www.instagram.com/p/BKnsz7TBn6R/?taken-by=robertjlessard
I think you'll be able to swap the small pen blade for the sheepsfoot, with a bit of adjustment to the angle of the blade.


us Offline Poncho65

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #5 on: May 23, 2017, 07:41:52 PM
Ok, now that is just awesome :o :ahhh :like:


Offline 875fps

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #6 on: May 24, 2017, 09:50:28 PM
Have a look at this: https://www.instagram.com/p/BKnsz7TBn6R/?taken-by=robertjlessard
I think you'll be able to swap the small pen blade for the sheepsfoot, with a bit of adjustment to the angle of the blade.

That's 100% what I'm looking for. Now I just need to find an Explorer.  :)


Offline george1

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #7 on: June 05, 2017, 11:27:44 PM
Can someone explain how to do this on the 91mm size (if possible)?
I would love to do this on an explorer but l'm new to this.
What two springs do l need to use to get a in-phillips across from the 2 openers?  I don't mind having back tools on this
Do l need to grind the tools and/or springs?
Cheers
George


nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #8 on: June 06, 2017, 03:43:23 AM
Can someone explain how to do this on the 91mm size (if possible)?
I would love to do this on an explorer but l'm new to this.
What two springs do l need to use to get a in-phillips across from the 2 openers?  I don't mind having back tools on this
Do l need to grind the tools and/or springs?
Cheers
George

The short answer is no, not happening.


Offline george1

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #9 on: June 06, 2017, 05:59:17 AM
Thanks zoidberg.
Looks like l'll have to do it on a Alox 93 mm then.

Do the openers and/or springs (from the openers layer) need to be ground to work?

Something else l have been thinking of is would two in-line phillips mounted opposite each other on the original spring work? I'm hoping l could grind one down to be an in-line technicians screw driver (instead of the magnifier).

Cheers

George


wales Offline hiraethus

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #10 on: June 06, 2017, 12:47:15 PM
Do the openers and/or springs (from the openers layer) need to be ground to work?
No, you only need to reshape the tang of the phillips to suit.


Something else l have been thinking of is would two in-line phillips mounted opposite each other on the original spring work? I'm hoping l could grind one down to be an in-line technicians screw driver (instead of the magnifier).

It might do.  Got to be worth a try, :tu:


ca Offline Syph007

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #11 on: June 09, 2017, 01:40:08 AM

And here's an off the wall bonus question ... I put a knife together the other night and the awl tool scratched the mess out of the backspring.  I had to file them both down to get the scratches out and every time I put it together it would put these huge gashes in the spring again.  Have you guys experienced that at all?  I haven't been able to figure out what in the world is going on.

Sounds like the backspring has lost its heat treat then.  If a tool scratches and wont operate smooth thats 99% likely the cause.  Before I knew what I was doing I used to polish the backside of the springs and sometimes they'd get too hot.  If they did they never worked correctly again, and what you describe was always the outcome.

PM me or email sakmodder [at] gmail . com if you are looking for custom SAK work.

Modding thread : Here
Website : WWW.SAKModder.com 
Facebook : SAKModder
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ca Offline Syph007

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #12 on: June 09, 2017, 01:43:42 AM
Have a look at this: https://www.instagram.com/p/BKnsz7TBn6R/?taken-by=robertjlessard
I think you'll be able to swap the small pen blade for the sheepsfoot, with a bit of adjustment to the angle of the blade.

That's 100% what I'm looking for. Now I just need to find an Explorer.  :)

That is a nice configuration and will work with any small blade.  Pruner, electrician or spear point.  For the phillips side you need 2 spacers/washers one 0.020" and one 0.040".  Luckily the keyring spacer is already 0.040" so just make a 0.020" one for the other side of the Philips and Bob's your uncle.

This dual opener backspring is by far the most elegant way I found to add a phillips to a 93 though.
PM me or email sakmodder [at] gmail . com if you are looking for custom SAK work.

Modding thread : Here
Website : WWW.SAKModder.com 
Facebook : SAKModder
Instagram : robertjlessard
Youtube : www.youtube.com/robertjlessard


Offline 875fps

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #13 on: June 09, 2017, 06:58:44 PM
Have a look at this: https://www.instagram.com/p/BKnsz7TBn6R/?taken-by=robertjlessard
I think you'll be able to swap the small pen blade for the sheepsfoot, with a bit of adjustment to the angle of the blade.

That's 100% what I'm looking for. Now I just need to find an Explorer.  :)

That is a nice configuration and will work with any small blade.  Pruner, electrician or spear point.  For the phillips side you need 2 spacers/washers one 0.020" and one 0.040".  Luckily the keyring spacer is already 0.040" so just make a 0.020" one for the other side of the Philips and Bob's your uncle.

This dual opener backspring is by far the most elegant way I found to add a phillips to a 93 though.

That's incredibly helpful.  Thanks for that!  I have a few washers available and if I don't have one as thick as .02 I can certainly add a few together.


au Offline Huntsman

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #14 on: June 19, 2017, 12:23:18 PM
.......... I'm learning that when SAKWiki says the 84/91 Combo Tools are interchangeable, that's not 100% accurate.  lol

..........  The SAKWiki doesn't have a listing of all the knives that come with that tool listed like they do with the Combo Tool.

Hi - I am a Wiki editor

Re Combi tool: Yes I looked at the Combi tool page and it is somewhat misleading  ??? - Although it does say that they are not the same:
"While they look very similar, the 84mm and 91mm combo tools are not the exactly the same. However, an 84mm combo tool will fit in a 91mm SAK, although it sits a little low in the frame, and will need to be drilled out to fit the larger pins." 
How would you suggest we make this clearer? Or what needs to be said?
Let me know and I can update/correct it!!

Re tool to SAK list: The Wiki does have it - But it is in a weird place  :o - We have not quite managed to persuade the guy who did this to put the lists against the right tools yet.
For some unknown reason all the tool to SAK info is here on the Chisel page. Page down to your required tool !!  :tu:
We'll see if we can get this fixed !!


nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #15 on: June 19, 2017, 01:12:41 PM
.......... I'm learning that when SAKWiki says the 84/91 Combo Tools are interchangeable, that's not 100% accurate.  lol

..........  The SAKWiki doesn't have a listing of all the knives that come with that tool listed like they do with the Combo Tool.

Hi - I am a Wiki editor

Re Combi tool: Yes I looked at the Combi tool page and it is somewhat misleading  ??? - Although it does say that they are not the same:
"While they look very similar, the 84mm and 91mm combo tools are not the exactly the same. However, an 84mm combo tool will fit in a 91mm SAK, although it sits a little low in the frame, and will need to be drilled out to fit the larger pins." 
How would you suggest we make this clearer? Or what needs to be said?
Let me know and I can update/correct it!!

Re tool to SAK list: The Wiki does have it - But it is in a weird place  :o - We have not quite managed to persuade the guy who did this to put the lists against the right tools yet.
For some unknown reason all the tool to SAK info is here on the Chisel page. Page down to your required tool !!  :tu:
We'll see if we can get this fixed !!

 :dwts:

I might have a look at it later maybe.


Offline george1

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #16 on: July 12, 2017, 09:26:05 AM
So to clarify what parts are required in order to do this mod.
I get that you can only do this on the 93 mm size and you need two 93 mm opener springs.
However, when looking at a 93 mm Farmer next to an Explorer, it looks like the large screwdriver/bottle opener is larger on the Farmer.

So, do l need to use the 93 mm openers or do l use the 91 mm openers?

Also, do l use the old longer style in line Phillips driver or do l need to use the newer style shorter Phillips?

Cheers
George


wales Offline hiraethus

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #17 on: July 12, 2017, 09:46:21 AM
93mm openers, newer short phillips.


Offline george1

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #18 on: July 12, 2017, 11:15:43 AM
93mm openers, newer short phillips.

Thanks for that.
Cheers
George


Offline mbp

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #19 on: July 18, 2017, 07:31:34 PM
If one wanted to put just a single opener (flathead/cap lifter) across from an inline Phillips, instead of the dual openers, would a 93mm main blade/awl backspring fit correctly? Just wondering if there's a way to get a bit thinner than the dual opener backsprings.


ca Offline Syph007

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #20 on: July 18, 2017, 10:49:21 PM
If one wanted to put just a single opener (flathead/cap lifter) across from an inline Phillips, instead of the dual openers, would a 93mm main blade/awl backspring fit correctly? Just wondering if there's a way to get a bit thinner than the dual opener backsprings.

Yes that works.
PM me or email sakmodder [at] gmail . com if you are looking for custom SAK work.

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Offline Andrew Rueger

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #21 on: October 04, 2018, 02:49:12 PM
If one wanted to put just a single opener (flathead/cap lifter) across from an inline Phillips, instead of the dual openers, would a 93mm main blade/awl backspring fit correctly? Just wondering if there's a way to get a bit thinner than the dual opener backsprings.

Yes that works.

I am also looking to do this mod. With the bottle opener opposite the inline phillips is a spacer needed for the bottle opener/cap lifter? If so do you know how thick?

Also if I wanted to could I put the can opener in the main blade layer in place of the awl?

I am really new at this but like making and tinkering.


ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #22 on: October 04, 2018, 05:25:30 PM
The can opener won’t fit in place of the awl.  :-\
Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!


Offline Andrew Rueger

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #23 on: October 04, 2018, 05:30:57 PM
The can opener won’t fit in place of the awl.  :-\

That’s what I was afraid of. I guess I will keep the awl for now


us Offline Simyo

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #24 on: October 04, 2018, 10:08:36 PM
The combo tool can work in place of the awl.  The opener layers angle differently than the blade layers do.


Offline Andrew Rueger

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #25 on: October 05, 2018, 01:32:54 AM
The combo tool can work in place of the awl.  The opener layers angle differently than the blade layers do.

Which combo tool would I need? I am reading that the 84mm and 91mm are the same? Other than enlarging the pivot hole is there anything else needed to make it fit a 93mm?


gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #26 on: October 05, 2018, 01:38:13 AM
I'm following this thread with interest.  :popcorn:

I have a 93mm mod planned, and this info is all getting lapped up  :)


The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad


nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #27 on: October 05, 2018, 09:35:10 AM
The combo tool can work in place of the awl.  The opener layers angle differently than the blade layers do.

Which combo tool would I need? I am reading that the 84mm and 91mm are the same? Other than enlarging the pivot hole is there anything else needed to make it fit a 93mm?

Go with the 91mm. The 84mm is thinner and has a sightly smaller overall profile.


ca Offline Syph007

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #28 on: October 05, 2018, 05:08:26 PM
The combo tool can work in place of the awl.  The opener layers angle differently than the blade layers do.

Which combo tool would I need? I am reading that the 84mm and 91mm are the same? Other than enlarging the pivot hole is there anything else needed to make it fit a 93mm?

Go with the 91mm. The 84mm is thinner and has a sightly smaller overall profile.

ya 84 wont work well, as its even thinner.

The 91 is passable but since its thinner than the awl tool its replacing there is actually move force per surface unit on that backspring than in a 91 and that spring is stronger.  The result is that somtimes it can gall and not operate super smooth.  I tend to steer people away from that now if possible but it CAN work acceptably.
PM me or email sakmodder [at] gmail . com if you are looking for custom SAK work.

Modding thread : Here
Website : WWW.SAKModder.com 
Facebook : SAKModder
Instagram : robertjlessard
Youtube : www.youtube.com/robertjlessard


us Offline G-Dizzle

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Re: Best way to build a 93mm with inline Phillips??
Reply #29 on: October 05, 2018, 06:23:52 PM
Can’t you put both openers opposite the inline?


 

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