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Power Access Owners BEWARE

scotland Offline Sea Monster

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #30 on: May 28, 2017, 10:44:29 PM
Quote
I used my Power Access last night to cut a small tinder block in half and this happened.

I read this as "Cinder Block" and I figured that would be outside the scope of acceptable use anyway....


 ::)


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #31 on: May 29, 2017, 12:23:17 AM
Sadly, no, not cinder.  That would be more of the Cold Steel department anyway.

This is just a chunk of paraffin and sawdust, which, honestly, I think a blade should cut well, although I always expect some small amount of resistance.

Not enough to make the blade fold backwards mind you....

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline rdub934

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #32 on: May 29, 2017, 02:31:58 AM
Grant, have you heard anything from SOG about your PA with the issue?
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us Offline WoodsDuck

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #33 on: May 29, 2017, 03:04:59 AM
Grant, have you heard anything from SOG about your PA with the issue?

Seconding this.  Seems like a pretty clear cut case of a defect if I've ever seen one.


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #34 on: May 29, 2017, 09:25:07 PM
Given the relationship that I have with SOG, I have to deal with this differently from everyone else... well, technically I don't have to, but I am, because I want to help them solve the issue, and, as a result I haven't actually done much to replace the Power Access... yet.

If anyone should have this (or any other) problem with their Power Access, please contact SOG Customer Service about having your tool fixed and/or replaced.

https://www.sogknives.com/warranty-info.html

Don't take any chances- SOG has excellent customer service, and it's better to contact them than it is to explain to your family why you can no longer pick your nose.

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


es Offline microbe

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #35 on: June 03, 2017, 12:49:42 PM
All good here,no such issue.
The Philips screwdriver does flexes the tool when tensioning a screw.
I tightened it with my Explorer. No flex there.  >:D
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gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #36 on: June 04, 2017, 08:45:08 PM
Just met Kev Davey today. He called in to collect some alcohol I bought a bundle of to split between us, and he ended up staying for about 5 hours  :D I asked him to bring the PowerAccess with him, so I could see one up close.

He passed me the tool, and told me that at least he didn't have the same issues that Grant did.... and as he said that, it happened to me.....  :ahhh

The reason it happened (and I was able to recreate it several times) was partially over travel of the blade, and partially the tool clumping. As I unfolded the blade, the clumping caused the other tools to lift slightly, and by the time I manually pushed the other tools back home, the blade had already travelled past the "correct" open position. Note that as this wasn't my tool, I didn't subject the implements to any full working load, but it did seem this issue could easily happen if the other tools weren't fully in the "home" position. As I said, I didn't load the tool when the rest of the tools were correctly located, so I don't know if Grant managed to overcome the locking mechanism, or simply didn't have the rest of the tools properly stowed.

Either way, it is still a potential problem, which both the manufacturers and users should be aware of. Careful use is most definitely required, which may explain why someone who keeps breaking his own feet managed to have an issue with it  :whistle:

 >:D

Long story short - even if your tool hasn't done this so far, it still has the potential to, so please be careful using this tool  :cheers:

I did check with Kev to make sure he was happy with me saying this, before I told the world that his tool is defective  :D


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england Offline Kev D

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #37 on: June 04, 2017, 09:57:45 PM
Literally 10 seconds in his hands and he finds the problem  :facepalm:

It's good to know that such a small amount of lift due to clumping, can lift the locking mechanism enough to allow over travel. Definitely need to look out for clumping lifting the locking mechanism before using the blade to avoid potential injuries.


gb Offline Zed

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #38 on: June 04, 2017, 10:03:51 PM
Is the locking mechanism the same or similar to the powerlock?  As can see how this happens  :-\


gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #39 on: June 04, 2017, 10:12:13 PM
Is the locking mechanism the same or similar to the powerlock?  As can see how this happens  :-\

Kind of similar, but the Powerlock design doesn't allow the exaggerated overtravel that the PowerAccess does.


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ca Offline Syph007

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #40 on: June 04, 2017, 10:37:54 PM
Is this to allow UK carry as non-locking?  :whistle:
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gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #41 on: June 04, 2017, 10:49:55 PM
I think UK law means it's meant to freely fold the opposite way, but for a definitive answer, it would need to be tried in a court of law.

Prosecution: Does the blade lock, or does the blade fold freely?

Defendent: Both...

Prosecution: Does the blade CLOSE freely?

Defendant: No. The blade does not close, it just keeps opening.

Prosecution: So if the blade does not freely close, it is effectively a locking knife?

Defendent: No. The blade flexes away from the article being cut, thus avoiding all harm to what you were cutting, and placing all potentail harm on the operator of the tool.

Prosecution: What is the potential benefit of a knife that won't close, but which flexes away from what you are trying to cut?

Defendent: Dunno! I blame Kirky!



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us Offline theonew

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #42 on: June 04, 2017, 10:58:31 PM
 :rofl:


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #43 on: June 04, 2017, 11:14:46 PM
Is the locking mechanism the same or similar to the powerlock?  As can see how this happens  :-\

It is similar, but I think the issues is that the tolerances are looser due to overseas manufacturing.  There is absolutely no reason why this should happen, but then it does.

And Al, the only reason I keep breaking my own feet is because I'm becoming Wolverine, but on an installment plan.   :facepalm:

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #44 on: June 04, 2017, 11:16:38 PM
 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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cy Offline dks

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #45 on: June 04, 2017, 11:32:15 PM
overseas manufacturing is not an excuse. This is a tool SOG is happy to sell you. They ask for a specific product, their people are happy with the product, their QA team is happy with the product, so they sell it to you. Would the same robot work better in the US than in China, if it had the same input?

Blame the company and its low standards/specifications - not the country of manufacturing.

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gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #46 on: June 04, 2017, 11:54:08 PM
overseas manufacturing is not an excuse. This is a tool SOG is happy to sell you. They ask for a specific product, their people are happy with the product, their QA team is happy with the product, so they sell it to you. Would the same robot work better in the US than in China, if it had the same input?

Blame the company and its low standards/specifications - not the country of manufacturing.

Agreed  :tu:

An appropriate course of action would be to dump the designers and those in charge of assuring quality control in a survival situation with their own defective tools.....


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gb Offline Zed

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #47 on: June 05, 2017, 12:11:59 AM
Is the locking mechanism the same or similar to the powerlock?  As can see how this happens  :-\

It is similar, but I think the issues is that the tolerances are looser due to overseas manufacturing.  There is absolutely no reason why this should happen, but then it does.

And Al, the only reason I keep breaking my own feet is because I'm becoming Wolverine, but on an installment plan.   :facepalm:

Def

 :tu: I know this happens to a degree on my powerlock if not paying attention,and stop talking about broken feet as I fractured my Ankle and now got a lovely boot  :facepalm: The best part was when the doctor said to me have you had previous operations on your ankle and leg,he was looking at my X Ray that showed all the plates and pins  :facepalm: didn't give me much confidence  :rofl:


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #48 on: June 05, 2017, 01:14:28 AM
overseas manufacturing is not an excuse. This is a tool SOG is happy to sell you. They ask for a specific product, their people are happy with the product, their QA team is happy with the product, so they sell it to you. Would the same robot work better in the US than in China, if it had the same input?

Blame the company and its low standards/specifications - not the country of manufacturing.

Agreed  :tu:

An appropriate course of action would be to dump the designers and those in charge of assuring quality control in a survival situation with their own defective tools.....

As the president f the company is the lead designer, I doubt very much that would happen...

And frankly, I think the design is sound, it is the execution that fails on this one, which is the fault of:

A- the contracted manufacturer
B- the quality control inspector

The reality is though, that this is also an initial run, and initial runs have problems.  We have seen it in almost every major manufacturer and many new products.  The question is, what is SOG going to do about it?  That seems like a much more significant concern.

Given that their customer service is excellent, and that I have spoken to the design team on several occasions, I am sure they are addressing this and a solution is in the works, and I feel confident in saying that anyone who does have this issue will get satisfaction from SOG.

Everyone makes mistakes- it's what you do about it that makes all the difference in the world.

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


cy Offline dks

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #49 on: June 05, 2017, 10:42:36 AM
Of course, we did see how much the powerduo  improved after the initial run........... Right? Have they ever even admitted that it had issues? As far as they are concerned it was exactly what they ordered.

If sog is not happy with it  they should recall it, like LM did with the leap. Otherwise, this is the quality they want.
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gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #50 on: June 07, 2017, 01:13:01 PM
Of course, we did see how much the powerduo  improved after the initial run........... Right? Have they ever even admitted that it had issues? As far as they are concerned it was exactly what they ordered.

If sog is not happy with it  they should recall it, like LM did with the leap. Otherwise, this is the quality they want.

I think you nailed it the first time. SOG are perfectly happy to sell us poor quality tools. Simple as that. Having now inspected a PowerAccess and both Syncs, I am not convinced that SOG have any intentions of raising their standards of manufacture.

The PA clumping can compromise the lock up, and the drivers were badly formed (one was ground at an angle, and one was almost semi-circular at the tip). I stopped paying close attention after that, so there could well be other issues that I overlooked. It's a shame, because it could have been a really nice tool, and it wouldn't take much refining to sort the issues out (or at least the ones I noticed). I do not expect any refinement to take place.

The Sync were to my mind, truly awful, but that was mainly due to the design. I was so repulsed with the frail laticework, arse backwards choices of what locks and what doesn't, and dreadful ergos, that I didn't waste much time looking at build quality. They're novelty "dad gifts", not tools, and even if they were well built, they'd still be bloody awful.


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ph Offline Zephon

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #51 on: July 31, 2017, 12:56:35 PM
As much as I would want to love this tool, I find myself bumping this thread as the Power Access I got today shows the symptoms that's mentioned in this thread. The worst offender of the flipping back of the tool is the flat screwdriver. Something about closing the tool to the folded position is causing the lock to move half a millimeter. So when you deploy a tool on the blade-side of the handle, there's a chance it will go beyond the correct limit. Ironically, there's no problem in the file/philips side of the tool.

There's something terribly, terribly wrong with the tolerances between the parts. Unfortunately I'm stuck with this tool as 1) I got it off a private seller 2) no such thing as international warranty here 3) I've filled here and there trying to shave away metal to fix the tolerance issue.

I really really wanted to give it a chance but now unless I find what's wrong with this, I'm just ranting and regretting away that I should have bought something else....

I'll post pics tomorrow.


us Offline WoodsDuck

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #52 on: July 31, 2017, 03:25:34 PM
SOG's QC is really letting some people down... again  :facepalm:


england Offline Kev D

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #53 on: July 31, 2017, 03:31:03 PM
Every manufacturer throws out a lemon every now and then. My last one was a gerber


ph Offline Zephon

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #54 on: August 01, 2017, 02:01:18 AM
As promised, here are the pictures of what's driving me nuts about his tool. 

picture 1:
Picture with the circles show the tool at rest.  It's when you pick it up, or stow in your sheath or pocket or just hold it up to the light.  Circle to the left shows the gap between the handles.  Circle to the right shows how the locks should be -- the should sit low and as close as possible to the handles.  Deploying the tools with the lock in this position would create an audible "click" but nothing as loud as a SAK's click.

picture 2:
Picture with the rectangle shows the tool with pressure applied to the handles.  It's when you grip the tool tightly to get some work done with the tool.  Rectangle shows no gap between the handles compared the the first picture.  It also shows how the lock has raised itself higher compared to the first picture.  I don't even think it traveled the distance of half a millimeter.  Maybe 1/3 a mm at most.  But something is forcing the lock to open up when the handles are brought together.

picture 3:
Picture with the circles show the tool at rest.  Notice the gap between the handles.  Push the lock up, use nail nick to lift out flathead, use other fingers to put back clumping tools, swing flathead to position.  *click*.  All sounds good, right?

picture 4:
Picture with the rectangle show the tool when actually griped to get some work done.  Rectangle shows no gap between the handles.  Rectangle shows the lock mechanism has actually risen.

The frustrating thing about this is it only happens to the pocket-clip side of the tool -- the other side is perfectly file with matching *click* of the tool lock.
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ph Offline Zephon

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #55 on: August 01, 2017, 02:17:41 AM
Picture 1:
With that said, it takes no effort at all to make the outer tools of the pocket clip side to do this.  All you have to do is clamp your 2 handles together and *fail* happens.

Picture 2:
Those with Rebar or Micra (in my case) may have used their tool this way.  The flathead and knife do not fold back when the handles are positioned this way.  Unfortunately, due to design, this is a dangerous way to use the SOG.

Picture 3:
Those with MP600/MP400 would be used to this configuration.  It would work with this tool.  The flathead and knife do not fold back when used in this position.  Using it this way totally, totally defeats the original design of outward-accessible tools.


When in folded position, something in the poweraccess is hitting the inner portion of the lock on the pocket clip side.  It's either the lock on the opposite end hitting the clip-side lock causing the other end to pivot up to cause the fail OR it could be a hair of either plier head hitting the clip-side's lock causing the lock to pivot upward.  Wish more traditional back springs would have been used and this would have been a really beautiful tool.
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Offline mikekoz

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #56 on: August 01, 2017, 02:22:06 AM
   I own several of the old SOG tools, like the Power Assist and the Power Lock. I also over the past year or so purchased a Reactor, Power Duo, and a Power Play. They were never my favorite brand, and I never cared for the design of the older tools, but they were made very well. The newer ones I have purchased, from a design standpoint, are better, but SOG seems to be more concerned with making a tool lightweight, than making one that will hold up. Reviews of the newer tools I own seem to reflect my thoughts on them. As far as where they are manufactured, I agree that the blame should be put on SOG, and that also goes for where they decide to make them. The reason why companies outsource labor is cost, nothing else. A lot of these manufacturing plants in China are sweatshops, and the work conditions in them would be illegal here. Items manufactured in bad conditions are going to suffer quality wise. I am not saying they all are, but it is a known fact that some are. Apple got caught several years ago with the working conditions in one of their plants. I also do not like when companies outsource for cheaper labor, but their prices go up. It is a shame too, because some of SOG's newer designs seem pretty innovative and different, but if they cannot make them with the same quality they did on their older tools, I will pass on them.


us Offline sawman

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #57 on: August 01, 2017, 02:28:08 AM
Every manufacturer puts out Gems, Turds, and a lot of stuff inbetween :salute:
SAW


ph Offline Zephon

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #58 on: August 01, 2017, 03:03:16 AM
I'm not really one to place the blame on being so lucky that we got a lemon -- that's a lemon for me, for Grant, for Kevin and one for another guy who posted in SOG's Power Access review page.  Hopefully 800 other people have Power Access tools they can actually work with.

As for China, yeah, they get a bad rap on manufacturing especially on stuff they copy.  If there's one thing the iPhone I have taught me, it's that quality products can be produced (and copied  :rofl:).  For all I know, Gerber and Leatherman implements might be produced in some undisclosed China factory, shipped to the US and mixed with USA made implements like blade, scissors, etc and just assembled there and we wouldn't even know which came from where. (Can you know which Lego bricks came from where but you can easily blame a bad brick as "Made in China" haha!)  Oh, how about SOG do what Hasbro did to their Transformers line -- everyone got fed up with parts that don't fit or are too loose or mis-aligned rivets so they moved production to Vietnam.  And I think it actually helped!

 

Maybe I'm just frustrated coz
1) it's my first SOG.  I heard things about Gerber but fell in love with the MP600 despite of all the noise.  I was holding that kind of expectation from SOG.
2) given MTO's relationship with SOG, I set a really, really high bar for them -- as in MP600 levels of expectation.  I wanted a competitor for the MP600/MP400. 
3) I can't return it as I've tampered with it already and there's no such thing as warranty from individual sellers here.


It's ironic that yes, the blade won't fold down on your fingers, but it'll fold up!  :think:  -- and I was using the knife to open a box of Swiss Miss powdered chocolate drink for my little kid before bedtime and the blade folded up on me.  Blade folds up while going between the box cover tabs of a Swiss Miss pack!


Anyway, I'm going to continue grinding away at the inside hinges of the locks to try to prevent whatever from catching on to whatever.  Worst case is for me to realize that the lock hinge on the pocket-clip side is off by 0.1mm compared to the other side.  :rant:




edit:
hahaha I just realized that I now have a small pair of compound leverage pliers which I've never had before.  If I needed a blade or flathead, might as well 1) pull out the SAK in my profile pic 2) reach into my pocket for the Micra.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 03:12:26 AM by Zephon »


us Offline WoodsDuck

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Re: Power Access Owners BEWARE
Reply #59 on: August 01, 2017, 03:31:33 AM
I'm not really one to place the blame on being so lucky that we got a lemon -- that's a lemon for me, for Grant, for Kevin and one for another guy who posted in SOG's Power Access review page.  Hopefully 800 other people have Power Access tools they can actually work with.

As for China, yeah, they get a bad rap on manufacturing especially on stuff they copy.  If there's one thing the iPhone I have taught me, it's that quality products can be produced (and copied  :rofl:).  For all I know, Gerber and Leatherman implements might be produced in some undisclosed China factory, shipped to the US and mixed with USA made implements like blade, scissors, etc and just assembled there and we wouldn't even know which came from where. (Can you know which Lego bricks came from where but you can easily blame a bad brick as "Made in China" haha!)  Oh, how about SOG do what Hasbro did to their Transformers line -- everyone got fed up with parts that don't fit or are too loose or mis-aligned rivets so they moved production to Vietnam.  And I think it actually helped!

 

Maybe I'm just frustrated coz
1) it's my first SOG.  I heard things about Gerber but fell in love with the MP600 despite of all the noise.  I was holding that kind of expectation from SOG.
2) given MTO's relationship with SOG, I set a really, really high bar for them -- as in MP600 levels of expectation.  I wanted a competitor for the MP600/MP400. 
3) I can't return it as I've tampered with it already and there's no such thing as warranty from individual sellers here.


It's ironic that yes, the blade won't fold down on your fingers, but it'll fold up!  :think:  -- and I was using the knife to open a box of Swiss Miss powdered chocolate drink for my little kid before bedtime and the blade folded up on me.  Blade folds up while going between the box cover tabs of a Swiss Miss pack!


Anyway, I'm going to continue grinding away at the inside hinges of the locks to try to prevent whatever from catching on to whatever.  Worst case is for me to realize that the lock hinge on the pocket-clip side is off by 0.1mm compared to the other side.  :rant:




edit:
hahaha I just realized that I now have a small pair of compound leverage pliers which I've never had before.  If I needed a blade or flathead, might as well 1) pull out the SAK in my profile pic 2) reach into my pocket for the Micra.

You could always pull the guts out and have a lightweight set of compound leverage pliers  :D

PS. Is that a Midnite Minichamp?


 

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