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Amazon - The Country Killer

scotland Offline Sea Monster

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Amazon - The Country Killer
on: May 24, 2017, 10:58:12 PM
Amazon is coming to Australia.

Great News? Amongst other things, Multis, Knives, and every other cool gadget that 23 million isolated Australians have being paying a premium for are suddenly going to be cheap, accessible, and with next day delivery.

Wow!

On the other hand, hundreds of small businesses (and any underperforming stores of big businesses) will close, thousands of retail, warehousing, and support staff (and the people who own and manage the buildings those shops are in, etc etc) will be out of work when Amazon annihilates their competition.

Worth it?



Edit:

More thought -
Currently, in Australia, our excellent consumer protections mean that retailers must honour manufacturer's warranties.

This is nice for the consumer.

What happens when everyone is buying from Amazon, but when there is a problem, rather than go back through Amazon, they take their product to stores for compensation?

If you were unwilling to support the store and staff in the first instance, do you have any right to go to them with your problems?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 11:29:12 PM by Sea Monster »


gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #1 on: May 24, 2017, 11:15:45 PM
I only use Amazon for buying stuff that I wouldn't pay standard retail cost for. Therefore the bricks and mortar stores don't lose out, because I wouldn't have bought their stuff anyway.


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us Offline ColoSwiss

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #2 on: May 25, 2017, 04:25:21 AM
Needed a new battery for a tv head set. A local specialty battery store didn't have them in stock. Would special order - $26 each, 4 - 6 weeks delivery.

Went online. Bought 2 batteries for $12 total; had them in less than a week.

I'm willing to patronize local businesses ( I make a point of buying several books a year from local book stores even if Amazon would be cheaper), but if its the least bit out of the ordinary they probably don't stock it.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 04:27:10 AM by ColoSwiss »


us Offline Aloha

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #3 on: May 25, 2017, 07:12:27 AM
I only use Amazon for buying stuff that I wouldn't pay standard retail cost for. Therefore the bricks and mortar stores don't lose out, because I wouldn't have bought their stuff anyway.

Pretty much this. 
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us Offline WoodsDuck

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #4 on: May 25, 2017, 11:51:55 AM
I only use Amazon for buying stuff that I wouldn't pay standard retail cost for. Therefore the bricks and mortar stores don't lose out, because I wouldn't have bought their stuff anyway.

Unless Amazon didn't exist, which I guess is the case with Australia. Sounds like it could be a pretty big upset there.


wales Offline Smashie

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #5 on: May 25, 2017, 11:56:26 AM
Amazon now has so much that B&M stores don't stock that they're pretty much essential to me now.


In fact I don't think it's just Amazon most of the things I find myself wanting or needing aren't in stock at any of the B&M stores. I needed toner for my laser printer last night, no stores within 20 miles of me have it on the shelf ready to buy. Amazon just delivered it. Unfortunately B&M stores just can't compete and it's their fault for being complacent when Amazon arrived.
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gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #6 on: May 25, 2017, 12:47:46 PM
I only use Amazon for buying stuff that I wouldn't pay standard retail cost for. Therefore the bricks and mortar stores don't lose out, because I wouldn't have bought their stuff anyway.

Unless Amazon didn't exist, which I guess is the case with Australia. Sounds like it could be a pretty big upset there.

Perhaps I should rephrase....

The stuff I've tended to buy cheap from Amazon, is stuff that I would manage without if it wasn't sold so cheap there. For example, I bought some oils and white beeswax from there, so I could buy my own 'tache wax and beard oil. Pre-made beard oil and tache wax can stop on the shelf as far as I care. I'd simply not bother rather than pay the regular price for them. I have bought DVDs and box sets cheap from there too, which I would have put back on the shelf anywhere else at full price. I don't buy essentials from Amazon, unless as Smashie says, I can't easily get them anywhere else.


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us Offline WoodsDuck

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #7 on: May 25, 2017, 01:02:11 PM
I only use Amazon for buying stuff that I wouldn't pay standard retail cost for. Therefore the bricks and mortar stores don't lose out, because I wouldn't have bought their stuff anyway.

Unless Amazon didn't exist, which I guess is the case with Australia. Sounds like it could be a pretty big upset there.

Perhaps I should rephrase....

The stuff I've tended to buy cheap from Amazon, is stuff that I would manage without if it wasn't sold so cheap there. For example, I bought some oils and white beeswax from there, so I could buy my own 'tache wax and beard oil. Pre-made beard oil and tache wax can stop on the shelf as far as I care. I'd simply not bother rather than pay the regular price for them. I have bought DVDs and box sets cheap from there too, which I would have put back on the shelf anywhere else at full price. I don't buy essentials from Amazon, unless as Smashie says, I can't easily get them anywhere else.

Fair enough.

On a related note, I'm one of the fools who buys beard products. Off Amazon, actually. What can I say, I like the scent  :shrug:



ca Offline JP

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #8 on: May 25, 2017, 03:03:37 PM
I have a bit of online retail experience. Got in on a semi niche market early. Part time side gig. Profitable for 5 years and then the products became widely available online and Amazon was undercutting the existing markets prices. I believe it was done by an algorithm but since then the pricing has bounced back to what it was. The timing pushed me out of the business but newer online shops are carrying similar products. The marketplace also became flooded with product. Good for the consumer.

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us Offline Aloha

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #9 on: May 25, 2017, 03:26:52 PM
As far as honoring the warranty.  I would hope those who bought their items online from Amazon would deal directly with them.  I have not required warranty service but I have had amazing customer service when needing to return an item or when last Christmas items were missing from my delivery.

How the heck does Wallyworld compete?  In my neck of the world there are several and another new super store opening soon.     

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Offline mtn

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #10 on: May 25, 2017, 04:00:59 PM
Its a tough question, but it is nothing new. Walmart killed the mom and pops. Amazon is killing Walmart (although it won't be to the same degree).

The fact is that Amazon is doing the job better than anybody else. My problem? I need something. There are numerous solutions--buy it online, buy it in the store, or go without. The best price is usually amazon. The most time efficient way to get it is almost always amazon. Good or bad, they solve problems better than anyone else right now, so the argument doesn't matter--people will use them, and they're not going away. I still try to support local shops as much as I can, but when they're charging me double of Amazon... I just don't have the expendable income yet to do that.

I think the real folks that need to be worried are UPS, FedEx, and USPS. I mostly get my prime deliveries from Amazon carriers.


us Offline ducttapetech

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #11 on: May 25, 2017, 04:28:54 PM
Its a tough question, but it is nothing new. Walmart killed the mom and pops. Amazon is killing Walmart (although it won't be to the same degree).

The fact is that Amazon is doing the job better than anybody else. My problem? I need something. There are numerous solutions--buy it online, buy it in the store, or go without. The best price is usually amazon. The most time efficient way to get it is almost always amazon. Good or bad, they solve problems better than anyone else right now, so the argument doesn't matter--people will use them, and they're not going away. I still try to support local shops as much as I can, but when they're charging me double of Amazon... I just don't have the expendable income yet to do that.

I think the real folks that need to be worried are UPS, FedEx, and USPS. I mostly get my prime deliveries from Amazon carriers.
I figured that Amazon is helping USPS and UPS. They are the one who deliver all Amazon packages around here. I wonder if it is regional thing?
Nate

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Offline mtn

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #12 on: May 25, 2017, 04:48:10 PM
Its a tough question, but it is nothing new. Walmart killed the mom and pops. Amazon is killing Walmart (although it won't be to the same degree).

The fact is that Amazon is doing the job better than anybody else. My problem? I need something. There are numerous solutions--buy it online, buy it in the store, or go without. The best price is usually amazon. The most time efficient way to get it is almost always amazon. Good or bad, they solve problems better than anyone else right now, so the argument doesn't matter--people will use them, and they're not going away. I still try to support local shops as much as I can, but when they're charging me double of Amazon... I just don't have the expendable income yet to do that.

I think the real folks that need to be worried are UPS, FedEx, and USPS. I mostly get my prime deliveries from Amazon carriers.
I figured that Amazon is helping USPS and UPS. They are the one who deliver all Amazon packages around here. I wonder if it is regional thing?

For now they're helping. But Amazon is already leasing their own airplanes (planning on a fleet of 40, for now) and is planning building their own $1.5 Billion hub in the Cincinnati area. Here in Chicago--where I believe they started their own ground shipping business--I rarely get a package delivered by a vehicle that does not say Amazon on the side. Probably 80% is Amazon trucks, 15% UPS/FedEx/USPS, and 5% someone working with Amazon (look up Amazon Logistics "last mile").


us Offline ducttapetech

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #13 on: May 25, 2017, 04:53:04 PM
Wow! I did not know that. Thanks for the info man.
Nate

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us Offline powernoodle

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #14 on: May 25, 2017, 05:37:53 PM
Worth it?

Absolutely.  I do much or most of my purchasing on Amazon. Most of my SAKs, MTs, lights and Man Sacks come from Amazon unless I find a better price on eBay.  Three minutes of clicking, and the merchandise shows up in 2 days.  Many items are same day delivery.  The time and money saved by buying on Amazon is totally worth it for me. I could put wear and tear on my car, burn up some gas and waste 45 minutes go buy XYZ at a brick and mortar store, but the time saved is worth the price of admission.

Honestly, I'm don't have any empathy for bricks and mortar vendors.  They too are trying to beat the competition.  Amazon is just much better at it.  By culling the sick and weak vendors from the herd, the entire species is made healthier and stronger.  Its the circle of life.


scotland Offline Sea Monster

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #15 on: May 25, 2017, 11:14:29 PM
Quote
I think the real folks that need to be worried are UPS, FedEx, and USPS. I mostly get my prime deliveries from Amazon carriers.

Australia Post has already been cut off at the knees by alternate delivery options (including things like email and online bank statements etc, that once made the bulk of their business) and is likely not long for this world....


Quote
By culling the sick and weak vendors from the herd, the entire species is made healthier and stronger.  Its the circle of life.

For better or worse, this isn't the savannah -

The sick and weak vendors still need to put food on the table - when they can't afford it through sales, they'll get it through welfare paid for by my taxes.

One way or another, I support them - I may as well get something for my money.


Quote
In fact I don't think it's just Amazon most of the things I find myself wanting or needing aren't in stock at any of the B&M stores. I needed toner for my laser printer last night, no stores within 20 miles of me have it on the shelf ready to buy. Amazon just delivered it. Unfortunately B&M stores just can't compete and it's their fault for being complacent when Amazon arrived.

Now, I know how fickle retailers are, so odds are you DID buy the printer locally, and they just stopped supporting that model/brand, but IN THEORY - If you bought the printer at World of Printers, World of Printers should be able to help you with your cartridge needs... - some of the arguments that "retailers brought it on themselves" are more or less correct, I get that...


Quote
The fact is that Amazon is doing the job better than anybody else. My problem? I need something. There are numerous solutions--buy it online, buy it in the store, or go without. The best price is usually amazon. The most time efficient way to get it is almost always amazon. Good or bad, they solve problems better than anyone else right now, so the argument doesn't matter--people will use them, and they're not going away. I still try to support local shops as much as I can, but when they're charging me double of Amazon... I just don't have the expendable income yet to do that.

This is getting a bit philosophical now, so feel free to ignore it -

Are you happier for next day delivery? are you happier for getting what you want through staring at a screen, clicking a few things (probably don't even have to open your wallet, your Credit Card details have been saved for your convenience...)?

More things faster + cheaper isn't necessarily the key to a good life. Sometimes making eye contact and receiving a service from a professional (uhh?) is well worth the extra pennies.

What did you do with the time and money you saved?



I could just as easily replace all of my things all of the time - but I don't. I buy expensive gear, I buy expensive tools, and I repair as I go - Lots of money and time, arguably wasted if I wasn't enjoying the experience....

« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 11:16:20 PM by Sea Monster »


Offline mtn

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #16 on: May 25, 2017, 11:34:49 PM

This is getting a bit philosophical now, so feel free to ignore it -

Are you happier for next day delivery? are you happier for getting what you want through staring at a screen, clicking a few things (probably don't even have to open your wallet, your Credit Card details have been saved for your convenience...)?

More things faster + cheaper isn't necessarily the key to a good life. Sometimes making eye contact and receiving a service from a professional (uhh?) is well worth the extra pennies.

What did you do with the time and money you saved?



I could just as easily replace all of my things all of the time - but I don't. I buy expensive gear, I buy expensive tools, and I repair as I go - Lots of money and time, arguably wasted if I wasn't enjoying the experience....

I'm actually kind of a minimalist. Or I want to be--and am very much a "buy it for life" type of person. I have furniture that is over 100 years old, hell I even wear shoes that are older than I am.

Here is the thing: I hate shopping for "normal" things. Just today, I ordered starch for my clothes. Now I don't have to deal with the horrible parking lots or traffic. I can spend more time with my wife and my dogs, I can spend more time fixing my boat, I can spend more time playing guitar or learning to cook.

My last 5 purchases on amazon were the following:
-Laundry starch (no love loss not shopping for that) 
-A gift, delivered to my brother 1500 miles away (saved me about $30 on shipping alone) 
-A part for my car that I needed tomorrow and none of the local Mazda, Ford, or Lincoln dealers had in stock, nor any of the parts stores that I'm willing to go to 
-Mouse traps after the 5 I bought at Home Depot (big box store) all failed (48 for traps for the price of 12 at HD)
-A special seasoning that we cannot find anywhere around us

Now, I actually could have gotten all of these at just about any place. But I saved money, and saved time. I don't particularly enjoy making small talk with the folks at the pharmacy. I still have to go to the grocery, I still have to go to the doctor... These things aren't going away. But amazon is legitimately making my life better--saving me money and time.


us Offline powernoodle

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #17 on: May 26, 2017, 12:09:49 AM
The sick and weak vendors still need to put food on the table - when they can't afford it through sales, they'll get it through welfare paid for by my taxes.

Or, they can go find another job just like you and I do when we need to eat. 

Amazon employs 341,000 people around the world.  People who also need to put food on the table.  https://www.geekwire.com/2017/amazon-soars-340k-employees-adding-110k-people-single-year/

Its totally not my business if someone would rather pay $85 for a Leatherman Rebar at the local store than $59 delivered on Amazon Prime (its current price in the U.S.).  But propping up bricks and mortar stores via consumer largess will only work for so long, because a tidal wave is coming and its called Amazon.  Its a zero sum game, because where employment ebbs here it flows there.  And like it or not - I do like better prices I'm not sorry to say - each of us in the end will adapt.


us Offline WoodsDuck

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #18 on: May 26, 2017, 12:16:05 AM
Amazon did open up a massive facility on the edge of my town and provide a lot of jobs for locals. Way more than WalMart ever did for us, I'll tell you that.


us Offline Aloha

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #19 on: May 26, 2017, 12:19:01 AM
I only see curriers deliver Amazon items.  I've not had UPS or FEDEX come to my home in a long time.

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scotland Offline Sea Monster

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #20 on: May 26, 2017, 12:38:04 AM
Quote
Or, they can go find another job just like you and I do when we need to eat.


I hope they're not planning to work at McDonalds, because I can just order my food through an app....
Or in manufacturing...I can get anything I need sent from overseas....


Quote
Amazon employs 341,000 people around the world.  People who also need to put food on the table.

That is practically nothing as a worldwide figure. I mean, it's not "nothing" it's 341,000 people with jobs, which is good for those 341,000 people - but as a comparison - The US Navy has 323,000 active personnel, so to call Amazon a huge global employer would be a bit generous.





Quote
Amazon did open up a massive facility on the edge of my town and provide a lot of jobs for locals

You are right, of course, it is not "All Bad" news - Regional areas where land is cheap that have low employment will welcome a mega warehouse and distribution facility.



Don't get me wrong - I live on a distant friggin island in the middle of nowhere that has a population density second to Antartica (and Greenland and Mongolia apparently). I've lived in towns (Technically called Capital Cities) that don't have enough population to support a department store, speSmurfpillst doctors, or even more than one bank branch (or multiple telecommunication providers...)


The benefits of affordable and fast access to car parts, fashion, and everything else (including  :multi: ) are hugely apparent to me as an individual - I just wonder how many people get trampled in the stampede for conveniance.

« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 12:45:22 AM by Sea Monster »


us Offline ducttapetech

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #21 on: May 26, 2017, 02:14:10 AM
Worth it?

Absolutely.  I do much or most of my purchasing on Amazon. Most of my SAKs, MTs, lights and Man Sacks come from Amazon unless I find a better price on eBay.  Three minutes of clicking, and the merchandise shows up in 2 days.  Many items are same day delivery.  The time and money saved by buying on Amazon is totally worth it for me. I could put wear and tear on my car, burn up some gas and waste 45 minutes go buy XYZ at a brick and mortar store, but the time saved is worth the price of admission.

Honestly, I'm don't have any empathy for bricks and mortar vendors.  They too are trying to beat the competition.  Amazon is just much better at it.  By culling the sick and weak vendors from the herd, the entire species is made healthier and stronger.  Its the circle of life.
I agree for the most part. And my post is not to disagree with powernoodle nor to disrespect him. But he damn near hit the nail on the head. But playing the Devils advocate, however, I do feel somewhat bad for the Mom and Pop shop that are trying to give good deals and make a 'honest' living without smurfing people over. But let's face it, it is about buying power. I seen it in the farming industry and I see it at work (Ohio University). Big companies, stores and universities have more buying power. They have millions if not billions to spent on a product and can negotiate with a company about price some what, because they are going to buy tons of there product and be able to move it. Then flip it cheaper than anybody else. A small company or a Mom and Pop shop, however does not have that buying power because they don't have millions to spend. Now remember I am talking about honest shops. Not the ones trying to make a fast buck.
When I was farming full time, I had to pay over 200 USD for 1 ton of Dairy pellets for my milking cows. I bought 6 tons of pellets per months. A fellow dairy farmer down the road was able to get them for 185 to 190 USD because he was buying 15 to 18 tons a month. He had the ability to say 'hey, hook me up or I will buy from elsewhere'. And they complied because they where making a bunch of money off him and that was at a cheaper price.
Just my opinion and more than likely I am totally wrong. As usual.
Nate

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us Offline Pacu

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Re: Amazon - The Country Killer
Reply #22 on: May 28, 2017, 05:50:08 AM
I went from retail giant electronics chain to working for a local AV company. Amazon Prime is awesome for us. Mom and Pop store making a killing thanks to Amazon Prime. 
:like:    :MTO:


 

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