Bring back the hollow rivet!!!!

[cbl51]

I don't know if anyone here has an "in" with Victorinox, but I'm becoming obsessed with getting them to bring back the hollow rivet and bail like on the Wenger SI. It seems like forever that I've been annoyed, and even angered at the silly little brass nubbin that sticks up from the back of a pioneer. It's positioned exactly to jab the heel of my hand in semi hard cutting. It's at an angle that is very much more 'up' for lack of a better word, than the more angled back keyring nub on the cellidor models. If you don't like the bail, then just put a nylon cord through the hollow rivet.

The hollow rivet won't cost them anything, since they have to rivet that end of the knife anyways, and it's such a more civilized approach to the lanyard attachment problem.

Hey Victorinox, you listening?

BRING BACK THE HOLLOW RIVET!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[zrxoa1]

1+++++++++++
Love the bail!!!!




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[zrxoa1]

I bet I know why they topped using a bail!  I have, myself, closed my blade on the bail. This caused a nick in my blade I had to fix.

I still prefer the hollow rivet and REMOVABLE bail, though!


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[m47mu74nt]

I bet I know why they topped using a bail!  I have, myself, closed my blade on the bail. This caused a nick in my blade I had to fix.

I still prefer the hollow rivet and REMOVABLE bail, though!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The bail IS removable :-)

[zrxoa1]

I bet I know why they topped using a bail!  I have, myself, closed my blade on the bail. This caused a nick in my blade I had to fix.

I still prefer the hollow rivet and REMOVABLE bail, though!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The bail IS removable :-)

Oh I know. Have taken mine off. I just wanted emphasize to keep it that way!






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[m47mu74nt]

 

I bet I know why they topped using a bail!  I have, myself, closed my blade on the bail. This caused a nick in my blade I had to fix.

I still prefer the hollow rivet and REMOVABLE bail, though!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The bail IS removable :-)

Oh I know. Have taken mine off. I just wanted emphasize to keep it that way!






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(But it would still be tricky to take on/off on anodised Alox without ruining the color ^^)

[zrxoa1]

I bet I know why they topped using a bail!  I have, myself, closed my blade on the bail. This caused a nick in my blade I had to fix.

I still prefer the hollow rivet and REMOVABLE bail, though!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The bail IS removable :-)

Oh I know. Have taken mine off. I just wanted emphasize to keep it that way!






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(But it would still be tricky to take on/off on anodised Alox without ruining the color ^^)

Yes. If mine had not been silver, I would not have even thought about it. Unless I wanted to remove it permanently, then I'd just cut it off.

That would sure be a waste of a good bail, though!!!




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[magentus]

You can easily make a replacement bail from a wire coat-hangar.

I am fully behind reintroducing the hollow rivet on all models - it's the best of both worlds.

[AimlessWanderer]

I've only had the bail on a Case Scout Jr (I'm not a fan of alox, other than on the 58mm line), and I too have had the bail get in the path of a closing blade.

Why didn't they just have the hollow rivet on the main blade pivot end?

That would fix everything.

[Don Pablo]

Hollow rivet! Hollow rivet! Hollow rivet! 

[Drreptar]

I don't know if anyone here has an "in" with Victorinox, but I'm becoming obsessed with getting them to bring back the hollow rivet and bail like on the Wenger SI. It seems like forever that I've been annoyed, and even angered at the silly little brass nubbin that sticks up from the back of a pioneer. It's positioned exactly to jab the heel of my hand in semi hard cutting. It's at an angle that is very much more 'up' for lack of a better word, than the more angled back keyring nub on the cellidor models. If you don't like the bail, then just put a nylon cord through the hollow rivet.

The hollow rivet won't cost them anything, since they have to rivet that end of the knife anyways, and it's such a more civilized approach to the lanyard attachment problem.

Hey Victorinox, you listening?

BRING BACK THE HOLLOW RIVET!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+1
Usually end up grinding off the nub bit for ergonomic reasons, but then miss having the option to attach lanyard

[MadPlumbarian]

I've only had the bail on a Case Scout Jr (I'm not a fan of alox, other than on the 58mm line), and I too have had the bail get in the path of a closing blade.

Why didn't they just have the hollow rivet on the main blade pivot end?

That would fix everything.

Right that would be a good idea,, but would that make it weaker rather then a full size rivet?
JR

[AimlessWanderer]

The best way would be to increase the pivot diameter, so that even with the hole through it, the cross sectional area stays the same.

[El Corkscrew]

I don't know if anyone here has an "in" with Victorinox, but I'm becoming obsessed with getting them to bring back the hollow rivet and bail like on the Wenger SI. It seems like forever that I've been annoyed, and even angered at the silly little brass nubbin that sticks up from the back of a pioneer. It's positioned exactly to jab the heel of my hand in semi hard cutting. It's at an angle that is very much more 'up' for lack of a better word, than the more angled back keyring nub on the cellidor models. If you don't like the bail, then just put a nylon cord through the hollow rivet.

The hollow rivet won't cost them anything, since they have to rivet that end of the knife anyways, and it's such a more civilized approach to the lanyard attachment problem.

Hey Victorinox, you listening?

BRING BACK THE HOLLOW RIVET!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amen.

And while they're at it, the older, thicker tools.  Amiright? 

You can wish in one hand and poop in the other...   (honestly, that's not recommended)

BUT the good news is you can still find used HR Soldiers w/thicker tools in those likely places and there are some awesome European sites w/ old Soldiers.  I dealt with similar issues and bought an unstamped SI and removed the bail... for a while until I heard the knife suggest to me that perhaps I made an unwise choice, so I re-attached the bail and now she sits on a shelf.  Still ramblin here:  Since the Soldiers/SI's are no longer available I've decided that I should only carry one for special occasions but they're pretty much all shelf queens now.   I've resorted to carrying a Pioneer for my alox fix and have a silver Farmer I can EDC on the way, but gee whiz, I would be carrying a new 93mm Alox Soldier w/hollow rivet if they were available FOR SURE.
 

[Etherealicer]

The hollow rivet won't cost them anything, since they have to rivet that end of the knife anyways, and it's such a more civilized approach to the lanyard attachment problem.

And that is why they won't do it... Because you are wrong.
- Sourcing hollow pins that are up to their specs costs money
- Just having an additional pin-size/shape costs money (storage, increased chance of error).
- Changing production line costs money, lots of money as the production line stands still, while adjustments are made.
- Getting the quality they want costs money.

Victorinox is a company and like any company they are after profit. So, for them it is simple math:
- Will they sell more? No, rather unlikely, there might be a small initial peak, but in the long run, they won't sell more, but have a more difficult tool to make.
- Can they sell it for more? No, not really, your assumption, that it won't cost Vic anything shows why.

So, best you/we can hope for is a limited run with hollow rivets that costs significantly more. However, it is much easier to change the color of the scales for much better profit (and they hardly do that).

[El Corkscrew]

The hollow rivet won't cost them anything, since they have to rivet that end of the knife anyways, and it's such a more civilized approach to the lanyard attachment problem.

And that is why they won't do it... Because you are wrong.
- Sourcing hollow pins that are up to their specs costs money
- Just having an additional pin-size/shape costs money (storage, increased chance of error).
- Changing production line costs money, lots of money as the production line stands still, while adjustments are made.
- Getting the quality they want costs money.

Victorinox is a company and like any company they are after profit. So, for them it is simple math:
- Will they sell more? No, rather unlikely, there might be a small initial peak, but in the long run, they won't sell more, but have a more difficult tool to make.
- Can they sell it for more? No, not really, your assumption, that it won't cost Vic anything shows why.

So, best you/we can hope for is a limited run with hollow rivets that costs significantly more. However, it is much easier to change the color of the scales for much better profit (and they hardly do that).

Makes sense.   

Btw, just scored an '01 Wenger w/ hollow rivet in awesome condition for $35.   Like I say, if you want one w/ HR there are plenty out there. 

[Drreptar]

The hollow rivet won't cost them anything, since they have to rivet that end of the knife anyways, and it's such a more civilized approach to the lanyard attachment problem.

And that is why they won't do it... Because you are wrong.
- Sourcing hollow pins that are up to their specs costs money
- Just having an additional pin-size/shape costs money (storage, increased chance of error).
- Changing production line costs money, lots of money as the production line stands still, while adjustments are made.
- Getting the quality they want costs money.

Victorinox is a company and like any company they are after profit. So, for them it is simple math:
- Will they sell more? No, rather unlikely, there might be a small initial peak, but in the long run, they won't sell more, but have a more difficult tool to make.
- Can they sell it for more? No, not really, your assumption, that it won't cost Vic anything shows why.

So, best you/we can hope for is a limited run with hollow rivets that costs significantly more. However, it is much easier to change the color of the scales for much better profit (and they hardly do that).

Makes sense.   

Btw, just scored an '01 Wenger w/ hollow rivet in awesome condition for $35.   Like I say, if you want one w/ HR there are plenty out there. 

I got a Wenger SI recently (my first ever) mostly for the hollow rivet. The snap on the main blade is far weaker than on the victorinox alox knives I have- is that normal- or is it just mine?  The spring/snap on all the other tools is 100%

[El Corkscrew]

The hollow rivet won't cost them anything, since they have to rivet that end of the knife anyways, and it's such a more civilized approach to the lanyard attachment problem.

And that is why they won't do it... Because you are wrong.
- Sourcing hollow pins that are up to their specs costs money
- Just having an additional pin-size/shape costs money (storage, increased chance of error).
- Changing production line costs money, lots of money as the production line stands still, while adjustments are made.
- Getting the quality they want costs money.

Victorinox is a company and like any company they are after profit. So, for them it is simple math:
- Will they sell more? No, rather unlikely, there might be a small initial peak, but in the long run, they won't sell more, but have a more difficult tool to make.
- Can they sell it for more? No, not really, your assumption, that it won't cost Vic anything shows why.

So, best you/we can hope for is a limited run with hollow rivets that costs significantly more. However, it is much easier to change the color of the scales for much better profit (and they hardly do that).

Makes sense.   

Btw, just scored an '01 Wenger w/ hollow rivet in awesome condition for $35.   Like I say, if you want one w/ HR there are plenty out there. 

I got a Wenger SI recently (my first ever) mostly for the hollow rivet. The snap on the main blade is far weaker than on the victorinox alox knives I have- is that normal- or is it just mine?  The spring/snap on all the other tools is 100%

I don't want to hate on Wenger but I have many of these things and long story short:  Yes.

The Wengers I have all seem to have a little weaker snap and they all weigh slightly less (about 1g) than their Vic counterparts.  I think this is a little less true with the older, pre-94, hollow rivet knives.   That said, dirt, lack of oil, bends and other variables can effect your snap.  Make sure it's clean and oiled.
 

[Drreptar]

The hollow rivet won't cost them anything, since they have to rivet that end of the knife anyways, and it's such a more civilized approach to the lanyard attachment problem.

And that is why they won't do it... Because you are wrong.
- Sourcing hollow pins that are up to their specs costs money
- Just having an additional pin-size/shape costs money (storage, increased chance of error).
- Changing production line costs money, lots of money as the production line stands still, while adjustments are made.
- Getting the quality they want costs money.

Victorinox is a company and like any company they are after profit. So, for them it is simple math:
- Will they sell more? No, rather unlikely, there might be a small initial peak, but in the long run, they won't sell more, but have a more difficult tool to make.
- Can they sell it for more? No, not really, your assumption, that it won't cost Vic anything shows why.

So, best you/we can hope for is a limited run with hollow rivets that costs significantly more. However, it is much easier to change the color of the scales for much better profit (and they hardly do that).

Makes sense.   

Btw, just scored an '01 Wenger w/ hollow rivet in awesome condition for $35.   Like I say, if you want one w/ HR there are plenty out there. 

I got a Wenger SI recently (my first ever) mostly for the hollow rivet. The snap on the main blade is far weaker than on the victorinox alox knives I have- is that normal- or is it just mine?  The spring/snap on all the other tools is 100%

I don't want to hate on Wenger but I have many of these things and long story short:  Yes.

The Wengers I have all seem to have a little weaker snap and they all weigh slightly less (about 1g) than their Vic counterparts.  I think this is a little less true with the older, pre-94, hollow rivet knives.   That said, dirt, lack of oil, bends and other variables can effect your snap.  Make sure it's clean and oiled.
 

Thanks El Corkscrew. Good to know it's not just me. It's  not a real problem as such ( I have a few other knives to choose from😉) around 50% of their 'use' is just fiddling about clicking the tools in and out, so this kind of minor thing bugs me more than it would most normal people.

[El Corkscrew]

The hollow rivet won't cost them anything, since they have to rivet that end of the knife anyways, and it's such a more civilized approach to the lanyard attachment problem.

And that is why they won't do it... Because you are wrong.
- Sourcing hollow pins that are up to their specs costs money
- Just having an additional pin-size/shape costs money (storage, increased chance of error).
- Changing production line costs money, lots of money as the production line stands still, while adjustments are made.
- Getting the quality they want costs money.

Victorinox is a company and like any company they are after profit. So, for them it is simple math:
- Will they sell more? No, rather unlikely, there might be a small initial peak, but in the long run, they won't sell more, but have a more difficult tool to make.
- Can they sell it for more? No, not really, your assumption, that it won't cost Vic anything shows why.

So, best you/we can hope for is a limited run with hollow rivets that costs significantly more. However, it is much easier to change the color of the scales for much better profit (and they hardly do that).

Makes sense.   

Btw, just scored an '01 Wenger w/ hollow rivet in awesome condition for $35.   Like I say, if you want one w/ HR there are plenty out there. 

I got a Wenger SI recently (my first ever) mostly for the hollow rivet. The snap on the main blade is far weaker than on the victorinox alox knives I have- is that normal- or is it just mine?  The spring/snap on all the other tools is 100%

I don't want to hate on Wenger but I have many of these things and long story short:  Yes.

The Wengers I have all seem to have a little weaker snap and they all weigh slightly less (about 1g) than their Vic counterparts.  I think this is a little less true with the older, pre-94, hollow rivet knives.   That said, dirt, lack of oil, bends and other variables can effect your snap.  Make sure it's clean and oiled.
 

Thanks El Corkscrew. Good to know it's not just me. It's  not a real problem as such ( I have a few other knives to choose from😉) around 50% of their 'use' is just fiddling about clicking the tools in and out, so this kind of minor thing bugs me more than it would most normal people.

I do want to say that this is probably not everyone's experience.  I've been comparing Vic & Wengers from the same year in my collection: '89, '94, '99, and an unstamped Wenger which I'm comparing with an '08 and a Pioneer.  Definitely more snap with Vic the '89 and '94 (the Vic '94 has the thicker tools).  For the later ones, I honestly don't feel or hear much of a difference.   Watching Swissbianco videos, he has commented that older Wenger springs tend to wear out a bit more than Vic.   

Basically, I'm super paranoid about saying anything negative about these knives, AWL Wengers I've seen are awlsome. I just prefer Vic... just by a little bit. 

[El Corkscrew]

One more thing 

While we're going to be making fantastical requests to Victorinox....

I request a combo tool as thick as the standard openers. 

[Etherealicer]

One more thing 

While we're going to be making fantastical requests to Victorinox....

I request a combo tool as thick as the standard openers. 

I want a locking blade on my CT with a flipper for easy OHO opening.

Please?

Pretty please?

[magentus]

Can I request a 91mm model with the butter blade from the Spirit included please?  (plus a hollow rivet).

[El Corkscrew]

One more thing 

While we're going to be making fantastical requests to Victorinox....

I request a combo tool as thick as the standard openers. 

I want a locking blade on my CT with a flipper for easy OHO opening.

Please?

Pretty please?

CT?

[magentus]

Cybertool 

[mcrib]

I do want to say that this is probably not everyone's experience.  I've been comparing Vic & Wengers from the same year in my collection: '89, '94, '99, and an unstamped Wenger which I'm comparing with an '08 and a Pioneer.  Definitely more snap with Vic the '89 and '94 (the Vic '94 has the thicker tools).  For the later ones, I honestly don't feel or hear much of a difference.   Watching Swissbianco videos, he has commented that older Wenger springs tend to wear out a bit more than Vic.   

Basically, I'm super paranoid about saying anything negative about these knives, AWL Wengers I've seen are awlsome. I just prefer Vic... just by a little bit. 

I've been wondering why the Wenger SIs have a softer snap compared to their Victorinox counterparts. I have a not very worn 97 Wenger SI with bail (and hollow rivet!) that I really like, but the snap kind of bugged me especially when I compare it to my modern Pioneer. Is it simply weaker spring? I started examining the tang pivot shape (not sure of the exact term but the rounded part that rubs against the spring when you open and close the blade) to see if maybe the Vic had a sharper edge at the end of the curve that caused the blade to pop open more strongly, akin to how the bottle opener tool has the half stop because the tang pivot shape is squared/flat instead of round. Anyways, this is when I noticed that the Vic's tang pivot extends out further past the pivot hole than the Wenger's. It actually looks like the curve ends a little further up on the Vic also. This could at least contribute to the Vic's stronger snap since it's pushing the spring out further right before it snaps open. This is also putting more strain on the spring which could wear out the Vic's spring faster. Finally, another plus for the Wenger side!

Though I like the snap of the Vic, especially on the Waiters, I'm going to tell myself that the soft snap of the Wenger SI is actually more refined and smoother with a better transition.

[El Corkscrew]

I do want to say that this is probably not everyone's experience.  I've been comparing Vic & Wengers from the same year in my collection: '89, '94, '99, and an unstamped Wenger which I'm comparing with an '08 and a Pioneer.  Definitely more snap with Vic the '89 and '94 (the Vic '94 has the thicker tools).  For the later ones, I honestly don't feel or hear much of a difference.   Watching Swissbianco videos, he has commented that older Wenger springs tend to wear out a bit more than Vic.   

Basically, I'm super paranoid about saying anything negative about these knives, AWL Wengers I've seen are awlsome. I just prefer Vic... just by a little bit. 

I've been wondering why the Wenger SIs have a softer snap compared to their Victorinox counterparts. I have a not very worn 97 Wenger SI with bail (and hollow rivet!) that I really like, but the snap kind of bugged me especially when I compare it to my modern Pioneer. Is it simply weaker spring? I started examining the tang pivot shape (not sure of the exact term but the rounded part that rubs against the spring when you open and close the blade) to see if maybe the Vic had a sharper edge at the end of the curve that caused the blade to pop open more strongly, akin to how the bottle opener tool has the half stop because the tang pivot shape is squared/flat instead of round. Anyways, this is when I noticed that the Vic's tang pivot extends out further past the pivot hole than the Wenger's. It actually looks like the curve ends a little further up on the Vic also. This could at least contribute to the Vic's stronger snap since it's pushing the spring out further right before it snaps open. This is also putting more strain on the spring which could wear out the Vic's spring faster. Finally, another plus for the Wenger side!

Though I like the snap of the Vic, especially on the Waiters, I'm going to tell myself that the soft snap of the Wenger SI is actually more refined and smoother with a better transition.

I can say with confidence that I do not know.... I assume something going on with the spring...   I've got a Red '65 Wenger on the way, we'll see what kind of snap that has. 

[DEMartin]

I too would like to have a Victorinox Pioneer with a hollow rivet and bail. I'm so mad at myself for procrastinating and not buying a Wenger SI when they were available. I'm not planning on seeing a hollow rivet Vic. model available in my lifetime; look how long it took to get the Pioneer X.

[El Corkscrew]

I too would like to have a Victorinox Pioneer with a hollow rivet and bail. I'm so mad at myself for procrastinating and not buying a Wenger SI when they were available. I'm not planning on seeing a hollow rivet Vic. model available in my lifetime; look how long it took to get the Pioneer X.

Just bought a WK+ Vic/'82 this morning.  It will make a nice straight flush of Vic's 81-85 

[SteveC]

I do want to say that this is probably not everyone's experience.  I've been comparing Vic & Wengers from the same year in my collection: '89, '94, '99, and an unstamped Wenger which I'm comparing with an '08 and a Pioneer.  Definitely more snap with Vic the '89 and '94 (the Vic '94 has the thicker tools).  For the later ones, I honestly don't feel or hear much of a difference.   Watching Swissbianco videos, he has commented that older Wenger springs tend to wear out a bit more than Vic.   

Basically, I'm super paranoid about saying anything negative about these knives, AWL Wengers I've seen are awlsome. I just prefer Vic... just by a little bit. 

I've been wondering why the Wenger SIs have a softer snap compared to their Victorinox counterparts. I have a not very worn 97 Wenger SI with bail (and hollow rivet!) that I really like, but the snap kind of bugged me especially when I compare it to my modern Pioneer. Is it simply weaker spring? I started examining the tang pivot shape (not sure of the exact term but the rounded part that rubs against the spring when you open and close the blade) to see if maybe the Vic had a sharper edge at the end of the curve that caused the blade to pop open more strongly, akin to how the bottle opener tool has the half stop because the tang pivot shape is squared/flat instead of round. Anyways, this is when I noticed that the Vic's tang pivot extends out further past the pivot hole than the Wenger's. It actually looks like the curve ends a little further up on the Vic also. This could at least contribute to the Vic's stronger snap since it's pushing the spring out further right before it snaps open. This is also putting more strain on the spring which could wear out the Vic's spring faster. Finally, another plus for the Wenger side!

Though I like the snap of the Vic, especially on the Waiters, I'm going to tell myself that the soft snap of the Wenger SI is actually more refined and smoother with a better transition.

     SI's are known to have a stronger spring and snap compared to a Vic.

I known mine is.