Advice on fixing wonky layers

[Don Pablo]

When I put together my bladeless woodsman,  I noticed that the opener/corkscrew layer was wonky, see pic. 
I suspect over preening and bent/uneven rivets, but has anyone seen this before? If so, what caused it? I'd like to know so I can redo this sometime in the future. 

Other symptoms are the outer liners bowing inwards. 

Oh, I forgot a washer for the can opener, but that is at the other end of the SAK, so I don't see it being the cause?

And one last thing. Where do you EU members get your 2.2mm pin stock? I see plenty of 2.5 and 2.38(which I can sand down to 2.2), but no 2.2mm? 

Thanks! 

[magentus]

My guess would be that the corkscrew tang is thicker than which ever layer you have coupled it with. Have you got some 'top down' pics?

[Fortytwo]

If I understand your layout correctly you have the cap lifter, can opener and corkscrew in the same layer. Did you match up the right liners? Modern blade layer liners are shaped to work as a washer for the blade. There also seems to be two liners on the left in the picture? Could we get some more pictures?

As for pin-stock, I used Conrad, they have localised sites for large parts of Europe and at least the German and Swedish sites had 2.2 mm brass rod.

My guess would be that the corkscrew tang is thicker than which ever layer you have coupled it with. Have you got some 'top down' pics?

Yeah, I thought so too but it looks like the mod uses the blade layer spring and a brass washer for the cap lifter.

[AimlessWanderer]

As mentioned before, you may have a mixed array of tang thicknesses in layers. To correct this, you would either have to reduce the thicker ones, or add washers to the thinner ones.

If you struggle on the pin stock, drop me a PM. I can supply some 

[Don Pablo]

As mentioned before, you may have a mixed array of tang thicknesses in layers. To correct this, you would either have to reduce the thicker ones, or add washers to the thinner ones.

If you struggle on the pin stock, drop me a PM. I can supply some 

The bottle and can opener are definitely the same thickness, so its the corkscrew I'm unsure about. Is an 80's corkscrew tang the same as a new one?

If I understand your layout correctly you have the cap lifter, can opener and corkscrew in the same layer. Did you match up the right liners? Modern blade layer liners are shaped to work as a washer for the blade. There also seems to be two liners on the left in the picture? Could we get some more pictures?

I put two liners on the outer right, beside the saw. And you understand right regarding the opener/corkscrew configuration.

I did not use the modern stamped liner, by accident, so I will fix that next time. I've found that using it makes the can opener sit right without needing a washer.

My guess would be that the corkscrew tang is thicker than which ever layer you have coupled it with. Have you got some 'top down' pics?

Yeah, I thought so too but it looks like the mod uses the blade layer spring and a brass washer for the cap lifter.

I think you are on to something there mags. 
I might have used the wrong spring for the corkscrew layer. 
I can't remember if I used a new blade spring, or the 80's one in the donor knife. Could that make a difference? 

Also, I believe the outer liners bowing inwards is caused by the visible rivet in the photo below, which appears to have a bend by the way.   (The rivet, not the photo.  )
So thats one problem that I think I have a solution for. (Don't over preen that rivet)


I'll redo this all as soon as I get proper size pin stock, I was filling down 3 and 2.38mm pin stock, and I don't want to go through that again, especially for sub-optimal results. 

I can get 2.5mm on the 'net easily, 2.2mm is another matter... Thanks for the company recommendation Fortytwo. 

[Don Pablo]

I found a wee bit more 2.38mm rod, when I thought I had run out. So I decided to just go ahead and make bladeless explorer, mk 2.
I moved around the saw, mag and scissor layers, and used the proper liners for the outside, made better rivets, etc.

I consider mk 2 to be a resounding success. 
All the problems have been fixed, and if there is a flaw with it, some of the tools have excess snap, which will work its way out. I haven't oiled it yet anyway.
This is the first time I've managed to have no wobble in the bottle opener, so a little milestone for me. 
Also I figured out how to pre preen the rivets well, on a drill, so that the brushings on at least one side of the SAK are well filled...

Pics in morning!

[Fortytwo]

Great to hear!

[magentus]

Nice one PO'B  Is it a bladeless explorer or still a bladeless Woodsman? 

Looking forward to pics 

[Don Pablo]

Doh!  Bladeless Woodsman, mk 2.

Thanks everyone, for the advice and cheers. 

[Don Pablo]

Oh, I forgot to mention, the can opener can't open cans the regular way anymore, due to its position.
It still works in a pinch, and I'm happy with the compromise.

[magentus]

That looks great PO'B 

Very inspiring - I may have to break out the tools and make me a bladeless SAK too. 

[Don Pablo]

That looks great PO'B 

Very inspiring - I may have to break out the tools and make me a bladeless SAK too. 

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I did it the easy way and put the openers over the corkscrew and blade spring. It means the nail nick is on the wrong side, and its hard to open cans, but its easy to do at least. 

Using the new stamped blade liner, you only need one brass washer, of approximately .39mm thickness, for the bottle opener. I made mine from .4mm brass sheet I found at the hobby shop.
Using the old non stamped liner, you need an extra washer of same thickness (for the can opener).
I hope I am making sense. 

And then there is all the other ways to make a bladeless SAK, most of them beyond me. 

[Don Pablo]

Bladeless Woodsman, MK3?
I don't know if it qualifies as a woodsman anymore. What do you think? And if not, what is it?

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More details:
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,9998.msg1553896.html#msg1553896

It has wonky liners again. 
More specifically, the scissors and corresponding outer liner are wonky(to a lesser extent than last time, when I started this thread). I think its a bent pin or bad pre-preening.
As the only tools on that pin are the scissors and mag glass, it should be fine for now.


It has a hook now!!!! 

[kottskrapa]

I was thinking about a mod last night that I want to do and starting to se how it all will work together I ran in to some headache with the backsprings. I want to have the opening layer with a corkscrew instead of the awl, so far so good but the corkscrew sits on the knife layer and those springs are quite different.

Which backspring did you use? My first thought was to use the opening layer spring and remove some material in the end but any tips and tricks would be welcome

[It's not failure if you learn something from it]

[Don Pablo]

I was thinking about a mod last night that I want to do and starting to se how it all will work together I ran in to some headache with the backsprings. I want to have the opening layer with a corkscrew instead of the awl, so far so good but the corkscrew sits on the knife layer and those springs are quite different.

Which backspring did you use? My first thought was to use the opening layer spring and remove some material in the end but any tips and tricks would be welcome

[It's not failure if you learn something from it]

This any use? 
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,73874.msg1552402.html#msg1552402
Tell me if you have unanswered questions afterwards.
And good luck. 

[kottskrapa]

I was thinking about a mod last night that I want to do and starting to se how it all will work together I ran in to some headache with the backsprings. I want to have the opening layer with a corkscrew instead of the awl, so far so good but the corkscrew sits on the knife layer and those springs are quite different.

Which backspring did you use? My first thought was to use the opening layer spring and remove some material in the end but any tips and tricks would be welcome

[It's not failure if you learn something from it]

This any use? 
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,73874.msg1552402.html#msg1552402
Tell me if you have unanswered questions afterwards.
And good luck. 

Thanks mate!

[It's not failure if you learn something from it]

[Don Pablo]

I was thinking about a mod last night that I want to do and starting to se how it all will work together I ran in to some headache with the backsprings. I want to have the opening layer with a corkscrew instead of the awl, so far so good but the corkscrew sits on the knife layer and those springs are quite different.

Which backspring did you use? My first thought was to use the opening layer spring and remove some material in the end but any tips and tricks would be welcome

[It's not failure if you learn something from it]

This any use? 
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,73874.msg1552402.html#msg1552402
Tell me if you have unanswered questions afterwards.
And good luck. 

Thanks mate!

[It's not failure if you learn something from it]

No problem.

[tattoosteve99]

I’ll interject some wisdom. The pins are surely bent. You need some sort of jig for assembly. If you can’t make one use a stack of liners taped together. The pins need to be longer than the finished knife.
The springs are also slightly wider than the tools so they will work.
Here’s my advice.
Hard to explain but I’ll try.
Put pins in jig first.
Outer liner first, then the tool spring, followed by the tools but don’t force them in just yet. Do the non corkscrew or backside philips layer last not this layer. One side of the tools will go in and one side won’t. That’s what you need in order for this to work.
Add a liner and push it down tight as you can. Then use and small pin punch and load the other tool. This will support the pins as you assemble.
After all is together all the tools should still be in the open position. Hold it tight or tape the knife up so it don’t blow apart, not fun if it does.
Then pin the outer pins first, then one with the tools. Don’t hammer them closed just yet, just enough to hold the knife together for now
Next donthe center pivot pin. Then the backside tool pin. This should hold the knife together. Now you can check to see if the tools work correctly and that the pins aren’t bent. Don’t let them snap shut as they can damage the liners
After that’s done and everything looks good. Start pinning it tools side first. They should be very slightly loose. That’s normal. Then do the backside tool pin.
After that the middle pin. This is the tricky one. It’s only purpose is to help support the springs. It should be tight enough to barley spin. Then check snap on each tool separately one at a time. They should all fall correctly in place.
That should correct any issues you have. Hope this all makes sense and is helpful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Don Pablo]

Thanks for your input. 
I learned about the not bending the pins bit already, but the bit about the peening I will keep in mind from now on.