The American Dream?

[Gerhard Gerber]

I have to assume many of you follow CutleryLover on YT, not sure how many of you would've watched a recent video about all the jobs he's had through the years.  Watching the video I got the feeling that indeed America is the land of opportunity that rewards work.

What also contributed to starting this thread is a recent conversation with a colleague, one of two emigrating to the UK in the next few months. 
She said you have better quality of life in the UK, even on minimum wage than we have here on average.
This is true and has been true for many years, depending on how you measure quality.
Most practical thing to do since my younger years was to go to the UK for 2 years, work, party AND save up.  I know many people that got a huge head start in life thanks to that.

Since my career started off fine, and this country is so much part of my heart and soul, I never even considered it.

Without going into too much detail, at age 42 I've come to the realisation that I'm no longer welcome in my country of birth, "things" will not get better, and the only smart move.......is a move.

Easier said than done when the whole world is understandably sick and tired of migrants, and your money is worth 10-20 times less where ever you go......

I've been thinking about this a lot, and there are many expats also leaving, and the main question is WHERE TO.........

If.......if we had a certain birth certificate I could get a German ancestral visa, since I don't, Europe is basically a locked door.
To be honest, I also view Europe as the place where wars start.......and I feel we're almost overdue 

Canada, NZ and Australia would be close to the top of my list, but I have neither the money nor the qualifications to make the cut.

I might be wrong, but I always had the impression that the US is relatively easy to get in to?
I can do America-bashing all day long, but I also understand that a huge number of Americans are just like my people: the generations following a mix&match from all over the world that came to a frontier and survived.

I also suspect that America might be the easiest country to do what I would like to do for a living, whatever form that might take.

So, is the American dream still alive and what do you think my chances are?

Anywhere else a person could easily run to?

Tips on getting Icelandic citizenship? 

Thoughts?

[Yadda]

I have to assume many of you follow CutleryLover on YT, not sure how many of you would've watched a recent video about all the jobs he's had through the years.  Watching the video I got the feeling that indeed America is the land of opportunity that rewards work.

What also contributed to starting this thread is a recent conversation with a colleague, one of two emigrating to the UK in the next few months. 
She said you have better quality of life in the UK, even on minimum wage than we have here on average.
This is true and has been true for many years, depending on how you measure quality.
Most practical thing to do since my younger years was to go to the UK for 2 years, work, party AND save up.  I know many people that got a huge head start in life thanks to that.

Since my career started off fine, and this country is so much part of my heart and soul, I never even considered it.

Without going into too much detail, at age 42 I've come to the realisation that I'm no longer welcome in my country of birth, "things" will not get better, and the only smart move.......is a move.

Easier said than done when the whole world is understandably sick and tired of migrants, and your money is worth 10-20 times less where ever you go......

I've been thinking about this a lot, and there are many expats also leaving, and the main question is WHERE TO.........

If.......if we had a certain birth certificate I could get a German ancestral visa, since I don't, Europe is basically a locked door.
To be honest, I also view Europe as the place where wars start.......and I feel we're almost overdue 

Canada, NZ and Australia would be close to the top of my list, but I have neither the money nor the qualifications to make the cut.

I might be wrong, but I always had the impression that the US is relatively easy to get in to?
I can do America-bashing all day long, but I also understand that a huge number of Americans are just like my people: the generations following a mix&match from all over the world that came to a frontier and survived.

I also suspect that America might be the easiest country to do what I would like to do for a living, whatever form that might take.

So, is the American dream still alive and what do you think my chances are?

Anywhere else a person could easily run to?

Tips on getting Icelandic citizenship? 

Thoughts?

The US is still a place of opportunity for anyone willing to work.  IMHO.

[ducttapetech]

I have to assume many of you follow CutleryLover on YT, not sure how many of you would've watched a recent video about all the jobs he's had through the years.  Watching the video I got the feeling that indeed America is the land of opportunity that rewards work.

What also contributed to starting this thread is a recent conversation with a colleague, one of two emigrating to the UK in the next few months. 
She said you have better quality of life in the UK, even on minimum wage than we have here on average.
This is true and has been true for many years, depending on how you measure quality.
Most practical thing to do since my younger years was to go to the UK for 2 years, work, party AND save up.  I know many people that got a huge head start in life thanks to that.

Since my career started off fine, and this country is so much part of my heart and soul, I never even considered it.

Without going into too much detail, at age 42 I've come to the realisation that I'm no longer welcome in my country of birth, "things" will not get better, and the only smart move.......is a move.

Easier said than done when the whole world is understandably sick and tired of migrants, and your money is worth 10-20 times less where ever you go......

I've been thinking about this a lot, and there are many expats also leaving, and the main question is WHERE TO.........

If.......if we had a certain birth certificate I could get a German ancestral visa, since I don't, Europe is basically a locked door.
To be honest, I also view Europe as the place where wars start.......and I feel we're almost overdue 

Canada, NZ and Australia would be close to the top of my list, but I have neither the money nor the qualifications to make the cut.

I might be wrong, but I always had the impression that the US is relatively easy to get in to?
I can do America-bashing all day long, but I also understand that a huge number of Americans are just like my people: the generations following a mix&match from all over the world that came to a frontier and survived.

I also suspect that America might be the easiest country to do what I would like to do for a living, whatever form that might take.

So, is the American dream still alive and what do you think my chances are?

Anywhere else a person could easily run to?

Tips on getting Icelandic citizenship? 

Thoughts?

The US is still a place of opportunity for anyone willing to work.  IMHO.

For the most part I think it still is. There are a few things that circling the smurfter, but that is getting to political. I would say getting citizenship should not be to bad, may take a few years. Or just go to Mexico then cross the border that way. 

[Vidar]

Tips on getting Icelandic citizenship? 

Find and marry an Icelandic blonde shield maiden? (Your better half might disagree with this plan - so might the shield maiden  ). More seriously Iceland should be part of the European Union free flow of people principle through a separate agreement. But if all European countries are off the table then that route is hard too.

It seems you've mentioned most of the countries I would think of. I might add Singapore to that list of options. Hong Kong/ Shanghai/ China can be nice too for a while. Just don't get broke in any of those.

I generally thought Canada was more open than the US?

Edit: Just swoon your chosen shield maiden with your multi-tool collection  Who wouldn't fall for that?

[Sazabi]

The US is still a place of opportunity for anyone willing to work.  IMHO.

Oh I'm willing to work, but you still see glass ceilings on job advancement, wages, and other opportunities.  In the southeast, I'm pulling about $50 a day, after factoring in taxes, insurance, 401k, Roth Ira, and stock contributions.  I'd be crazy to not be saving for retirement, but then I'm also living at home, simply due to not having enough money for either an apartment of my own or a new car (when I finally need to replace mine).  If I chose either route, it would decimate my savings and effectively halve my monthly wages.

This is coming from a nationally certified pharmacy technician with half a decade of experience and a BS in Biology from one of the top universities in my state.  I need to go back for something else. :/

[Gerhard Gerber]

For the most part I think it still is. There are a few things that circling the smurfter, but that is getting to political. I would say getting citizenship should not be to bad, may take a few years. Or just go to Mexico then cross the border that way. 

I've been rather open and honest with my thoughts on that subject  ......that's why I rather mentioned the Americans I have something in common with....

[Gerhard Gerber]

I generally thought Canada was more open than the US?

Edit: Just swoon your chosen shield maiden with your multi-tool collection  Who wouldn't fall for that?

Not sure, the person know that emigrated to the US has the type of qualifications that gets you in most places.

People that talk about going certainly mention Canada nine times out of ten...as opposed to the US.

Edit: I have nothing swoon-worthy

[Vidar]

Another way might be the expat like variant; get work for an international company that stations you somewhere abroad.

Edit: It never worked for me either. I blame that on the lack of the right swoon-worthy multi-tools too! 

[Steinar]

I don't think there is anywhere one would want to move to that is also easy to move to. Sort of self-fulfilling, that one.

I'd start by making a list of countries that sounded OK, then simply contact their local embassies or check their official immigration websites (e.g. Canada has online questionnaires which tell you whether you can qualify for any accelerated immigration programs). Do you have skills which are in short supply anywhere? Several countries open the doors quicker if they can be convinced they need you, not just you them.

As for choosing countries, I'd look at Gini coefficients and see whether there were any countries that I hadn't thought of which scores well.

And even though Europe is off the table, here's the Norwegian embassy in South Africa's English language website: https://www.norway.no/en/south-africa/ 

Good luck, wherever your travels take you! 

Edit: I re-read this, and realized I sounded like a patronizing smurf. I just thought out loud and wrote how I would go about the same problem. Ah well, no harm was intended, and Gini coefficients are strangely informative, even when mentioned by people who spew of ludicrously obvious and trivial stuff.

[Old Boy]

Absolutely!! So much better compared to a lot of 3rd world countries out there where the basic necessities are missing.

I do think the dream has gotten smaller over the years, but it's still there. Just have to come out here on vacation or something and see if it is truly a dream for you compared to your current situation.

Just keep in mind you may not get what you want right off the bat, like anything else you have to work for it. I know I did.

[AimlessWanderer]

Something else to consider - the what if's.

What happens if you get taken ill or injured. Would you be better off where you are, or in the new place (wherever that might be). When you are talking about your future and ability to survive and thrive, do take time to consider how you would be able to face adversity should things change in your own physical status.

Before you say that is too pessimistic - you are only one year younger than me, and I have been stuck down with health issues with no prior warning, and don't know if I will ever be able to do a regular job again. Five years ago I literally had people queueing up for me to run a manufacturing facility for them. Now, some days, depending on my condition, I can't even take a bath or cook my own dinner. I am being housed, receiving benefits, and being cared for medically - but just over a year ago I had a potential overseas opportunity developing. Had I taken that opportunity and emigrated, and then the same health issues arose, I would have been absolutely SMURFED!!!

By all means think about where you can go to work, but do take time to consider the potential consequences of not being able to. Sorry to add to your burden in terms of your thought process, but sometimes life veers way off track, and you have to think about being best placed to be able to deal with it.

[sLaughterMed]

Comming from someone living in the US, whose household income is right at the average US income, I'd honestly say stay away from America. Our political atmosphere has recently become very unwelcome to immigrants, and while there are plenty of job oppurtunities for unskilled workers, none pay particularly well (at least by US standards), and our social safety net is dubious at best. To build on 50-ft trad's experience, medical care in the US is very expensive, even after insurance (which can easily run $10,000/yr just for having the insurance). Medical costs leading people into bankruptcy is extremely common. If I wasn't so anchored in Texas, I would seriously consider moving to Canada (which is where I would recommend you move yourself), which from a financial perspective at least, makes more sense than living in the US.

But if you do move over to my neck of the woods, let me know, I'll buy you a beer

[Aloha]

American Dream huh?  Well, that all depends.  For many immigrants to the US, especially those from places where the average pay is very little coming here seems like milk and honey lined streets, pay wise.  Things is, expenses as sLaughterMed mentioned.  A low paying job in the US seems like a lot when calculated at the living expenses in places where they are low ( your home country ).  When you look at what it cost to live in a large city like mine for example, in a state that is tax happy, you'll soon realize its not so affordable.  How do people "make it" then?  Many live with parents or in multigenerational situations.  Truth is, many don't.

A skilled worker will have a much easier time no matter the geographical location.  Make sure to pick the area that your particular skill is in demand and that like anywhere you are highly skilled.

You better not get sick here in the states.  50ft has it so right.  I won't bore you with more talk about the "what if".  Suffice to say you best be a healthy individual to began with.  If you've got vices, best de done with them. 

On a more positive note.  I still believe anyone with the skill, talent, desire, work ethic, passion, and resiliency can do great things here in the US. 

Like my momma always said, "Don't talk about it, be about it!"   

[Gerhard Gerber]

And even though Europe is off the table, here's the Norwegian embassy in South Africa's English language website: https://www.norway.no/en/south-africa/ 

Good luck, wherever your travels take you! 

Edit: I re-read this, and realized I sounded like a patronizing smurf. I just thought out loud and wrote how I would go about the same problem. Ah well, no harm was intended, and Gini coefficients are strangely informative, even when mentioned by people who spew of ludicrously obvious and trivial stuff.

Not at all  , but I do know most of this already and I don't have the qualifications.....

[Gerhard Gerber]

Before you say that is too pessimistic - you are only one year younger than me, and I have been stuck down with health issues with no prior warning, and don't know if I will ever be able to do a regular job again. Five years ago I literally had people queueing up for me to run a manufacturing facility for them. Now, some days, depending on my condition, I can't even take a bath or cook my own dinner. I am being housed, receiving benefits, and being cared for medically - but just over a year ago I had a potential overseas opportunity developing. Had I taken that opportunity and emigrated, and then the same health issues arose, I would have been absolutely SMURFED!!!

Tell me about it, I was booked off for the best part of April, finished a course of antibiotics last Friday, and I'm starting to suspect I might have a bigger problem.
I'm healthy in general, but I've had a few episodes where I was extremely thankful for my family....
As for my employability, that's being wiped out by a new piece of legislation https://www.google.com.na/search?q=neeef+namibia+2017&oq=NEEF&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.3873j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[Gerhard Gerber]

Comming from someone living in the US, whose household income is right at the average US income, I'd honestly say stay away from America. Our political atmosphere has recently become very unwelcome to immigrants, and while there are plenty of job oppurtunities for unskilled workers, none pay particularly well (at least by US standards), and our social safety net is dubious at best. To build on 50-ft trad's experience, medical care in the US is very expensive, even after insurance (which can easily run $10,000/yr just for having the insurance). Medical costs leading people into bankruptcy is extremely common. If I wasn't so anchored in Texas, I would seriously consider moving to Canada (which is where I would recommend you move yourself), which from a financial perspective at least, makes more sense than living in the US.

But if you do move over to my neck of the woods, let me know, I'll buy you a beer

It's the same here, few years ago I was without medical aid for a while, got an ear infection, couldn't afford the doctor, i.e. no prescription....and I couldn't afford the antibiotics anyway.....
A doctor did finally help me out a bit, the "antibiotics" I got you had to take 15 of the small white pills at a time, and major depression was one of the known side effects 
Because I'm viewed as "previously advantaged" state medical care is not really an option, and it's a bloody butcher shop.

I was just in a brand new hospital with all the most modern equipment from Europe, under the care of a surgeon that just got back from a week's training in Milan.....
The cost of the medical aid that allows for this is about double what my car costs in a month, 50% subsidized by my employer......and the total is more than many people earn in this country.....

 

 

[Gerhard Gerber]

American Dream huh?  Well, that all depends. 

Like I said, living where I (we) do we tend to be more outward looking, and my entertainment comes from the developed western world, and with that awareness of all the wrongs and ills......

In this sparsely populated country there's a feeling everybody can be somebody without having purple hair.  When I go to South Africa and a city like Johannesburg my sense of self diminishes among those millions of people, you realise how really not-special you are....

I would be just another drop in the US ocean......

[Gerhard Gerber]

Funny development, yesterday afternoon I heard another friend of mine and his wife have started the process of emigrating to Australia.

He's a fitter&turner (machinist) which makes it easy apparently, process will take about a year and it costs a bundle....

From their research they're not expecting an improved lifestyle, they simply don't see a future for their two small sons here. 

We're in a sort of perfect economic storm at the moment, the US supplying so much oil popped Angola's balloon, politics is taking South Africa down the drain, and we're the smurf-sandwich in the middle....

China lends you money to build things you don't need and can't afford, then when the economy and currency tanks you end up paying them back forever and ever....

[ironraven]

All dreams become nightmares if you never wake up.

And that is all I"m going to say because I could get really ugly, really fast.

[Gerhard Gerber]

I don't think there is anywhere one would want to move to that is also easy to move to. Sort of self-fulfilling, that one.

And then there's that.........

[Grant Lamontagne]

If I'm honest, I tend to think that if you want something and are willing to work for it, you can probably get it virtually anywhere. 

For example, since you mentioned CutleryLover, and bear in mind my info may be somewhat out of date, but the last I heard, he makes about $2500/mth from his videos.  That is not an extravagant wage, but it is a livable one in the US.  Theoretically, the same model could be followed, but living in an area that has a lower cost of living, that could be quite beneficial.  For example, the technician for this site, Esteban, has told me in the past that you can live quite well for $30,000US/year in Argentina, and, despite the crime issues, Argentina doesn't seem like a bad place to live. 

The internet has made a lot of opportunities for people all over the world, and I encourage people who have access to things like eBay, Etsy, Youtube etc to take full advantage of it, because it is an excellent way to make money for doing whatever you want that fits your lifestyle. 

As for where to go, I would strongly suggest one of the Commonwealth countries.  I may be somewhat biased, having been born and raised in one, but as someone with more than a few injuries in my past, I can say that medical care is a very important factor.  As far as I know (which admittedly may be somewhat limited) most, if not all Commonwealth countries have some form of national health care service.  Some may be better than others, but at least you know you can get reliable, good quality care and not go bankrupt over it.

I would also suggest that Australia or New Zealand might be a better choice for you, largely because of climate.  Canada is a wonderful place, and I would welcome you with open arms and a few pints, but winter can be a real problem- and you'd be amazed at how much proper cold weather gear (not to mention heating) can cost.  And, as we are a land of extremes, you will also probably need an air conditioner in the summer, as temperatures can get well over 40C in some places, and swing below -40C six months later.

As a bit of an aside, it always amazes me when I watch these home renovation shows from places like California, where they talk about adding a furnace to a house as a luxurious convenience- having spent my whole life here, a solid, reliable heat source is not a convenience or value added extra, it is an absolute necessity, and the thought of building a house without a furnace (and lots and lots of insulation- another thing you never see on those same shows!) is about as alien to me as an Autonomic Higgenvalve Relocator unit without an inverse polarity flow regulator.... and that's just crazy talk!

Good luck wherever you end up- you can bet that where ever you go, your friends here at Multitool.org are always going to be around!

Def

[Top-Gear-24]

....
To be honest, I also view Europe as the place where wars start.......and I feel we're almost overdue 
...

I don't want to get into politics here, but I do find this statement a bit funny seeing which continent you live on at the moment, and to which continent you would like to move ... 

I do admire you for making such a change in your life,  and I wish you the best of luck, where ever you end up going  .


 

[Aloha]

  Def it is funny what Californians think are value added home features.  We get sun sun and more sun yet solar is not considered value added feature.   

[Gerhard Gerber]

I would also suggest that Australia or New Zealand might be a better choice for you, largely because of climate.  Canada is a wonderful place, and I would welcome you with open arms and a few pints, but winter can be a real problem- and you'd be amazed at how much proper cold weather gear (not to mention heating) can cost.  And, as we are a land of extremes, you will also probably need an air conditioner in the summer, as temperatures can get well over 40C in some places, and swing below -40C six months later.

Believe it or not, we have jokes about people that emigrated to Canada from here and how they deal (or not) with the climate. Speaking of cost, just imagine all that cold weather gear in XXL 

Also on my mind are the experiences of a lady friend that spent a few years working in the UK and then moved to Canada.  She was a chartered accountant, she was a sharp, intelligent woman, not "difficult" in my experience, and she could not make peace with the corporate culture in Canada. 
I can't remember the details, but she had some choice things to say about he colleagues 
From what a landlord told me, the aggressive driving that's almost required here will cost you your license in Germany......

Considering South America, Uruguay is top of the list, there is apparently a large ex-South African community already and they've adapted well.
As far as I know relatively easy to get into, a local person with a house they could  rent out would have the required monthly income to get them access.
Not exactly a stable part of the world though.....

[Gerhard Gerber]

I don't want to get into politics here, but I do find this statement a bit funny seeing which continent you live on at the moment, and to which continent you would like to move ... 

I do admire you for making such a change in your life,  and I wish you the best of luck, where ever you end up going  .
 

Africa is arguably the best continent on the planet, but humans started messing that up shortly after they took over from the dinosaurs.

Despite being the best country in Africa, Namibia was not properly governed in the past, it is not being properly governed now, and because politicians are what they are, it never will be.  My bad luck was just the timing of my birth 

My comment about where wars start is more a historical observation, but I do think the world's money and power is still centered in Europe, there is much going on, much to be upset about, and in such turbulent times things happen......

As far as America is concerned, I have very strong feelings.  I believe in the idea of America and that a huge majority of Americans are good people, but the effect of the whole........well there's enough facebook posts and yt videos about that 

I have another problem.

20+ years in IT is enough, the inner geek is still very much alive, but the industry's not been kind to me, and enough is enough.  My crystal ball regarding the future of IT is relatively clear, I even like where it's going, but I don't see a significant place for myself in that future.

I have found something I love to do, make knives, and I couldn't help but think there's no better country in the world to get started than the US, I was even thinking of apprenticeships etc.

Did some research and that seems unlikely......

Also, different story for Chris Reeves moving his setup to the US, I'll step off the plane Mr Nobody 

[Grant Lamontagne]

I can imagine what they said about our corporate culture here... which is why I prefer field work.  Heck, I can't tolerate the BS in an office either.

I buy my cold weather gear in XL and that's pricey enough.  I was lucky to get my immersion suit at a clearance sale for only $400 or so.  Usually they are upwards of a thousand.  Admittedly that is overkill for folks that aren't spending hours a day outside in the cold and around water, but even so, a decent snowsuit will run you at least $300- and they are maybe not required for life in a Canadian winter, but they are invaluable when spending more than an hour outside in February.

Heck, a halfways decent winter coat alone will cost you between $100-300.  Boots will cost another $100, gloves $20-50 and then easily that again on a toque (hat), balaclava, scarf etc.  Just so you can go outside.

Going outside is expensive in Canada.... and we haven't even covered the sporting goods that you will want to have when you get outside- figure at least $150-200 for snowshoes, the same again (or more) for skates, double that for skis... and don't forget $1500 for a snowblower.  You can try shoveling, but be prepared to break a lot of shovels each year with heavy snow and chipping ice.

Oh, and if you are looking for an apprenticeship in knifemaking, I know a really good knifemaker who loves to teach... and he was on Forged in Fire twice....

Def

[pfrsantos]

[Top-Gear-24]

I don't want to get into politics here, but I do find this statement a bit funny seeing which continent you live on at the moment, and to which continent you would like to move ... 

I do admire you for making such a change in your life,  and I wish you the best of luck, where ever you end up going  .
 

Africa is arguably the best continent on the planet, but humans started messing that up shortly after they took over from the dinosaurs.

That's true, but in my opinion this goes for the entire planet ...

Despite being the best country in Africa, Namibia was not properly governed in the past, it is not being properly governed now, and because politicians are what they are, it never will be.  My bad luck was just the timing of my birth 

My comment about where wars start is more a historical observation, but I do think the world's money and power is still centered in Europe, there is much going on, much to be upset about, and in such turbulent times things happen......

Well, politicians will be politcians, 99% of them only care for one thing, ... themselves.  It's like that in Africa, it's the same in Europe,  and it's the same in the U.S.

And yes, we've had our share of wars over here, but again, the same can be said about the U.S. and others.  If you want to move to a continent that hasn't seen a war, I guess you're going to need some warm clothing.

I have found something I love to do, make knives, and I couldn't help but think there's no better country in the world to get started than the US, I was even thinking of apprenticeships etc.

If you can turn your hobby into a job, that's like winning the lotery.  And yes, I do believe that the U.S. might be the best place to start a business like that.

Good luck mate, I hope you can make it work  .

[Ron Who]

A decade or longer ago I had my African dream. After retiring, I was going to build a small farm in the south of Africa, but it doesn't seem very attractive anymore. On the other hand, it seems I won't need to move to Africa for the climate, as the climate is moving this way.

[Gerhard Gerber]

Going outside is expensive in Canada.... and we haven't even covered the sporting goods that you will want to have when you get outside- figure at least $150-200 for snowshoes, the same again (or more) for skates, double that for skis... and don't forget $1500 for a snowblower.  You can try shoveling, but be prepared to break a lot of shovels each year with heavy snow and chipping ice.

Oh, and if you are looking for an apprenticeship in knifemaking, I know a really good knifemaker who loves to teach... and he was on Forged in Fire twice....

Def

I know!  Watch enough YT videos and the prices of everything is scary!

Don't even tease.... Like I said, did some reading, and the general attitude seems to be it's not a paid apprenticeship.
The logic is simple, you don't get paid to go to college or university to learn a profession or trade, so by rights you should be paying to do the apprenticeship.......which obviously I can't do.