Back to (Mora) basics

[Zed]

The more inexpensive Moras are easy to own and great knives to experiment with. Now the Kansbol, Garberg and Bushcraft Black do enter the range where you've got more competition from other makers and other designs. So you're very on point with the Vic comparison. A lot of those traditional inexpensive folders simply work. They aren't fancy and one's pride of ownership comes from very personal reasons.

Just don't forget that a lot of the mysticism of Mora comes from the fact that they put a 22° edge angle (11 per side sometimes also written as 11dps) while most other manufacturers put a 40 or even 50° angle. Some of the sharper knives I've tried out had a microbevel at 30 which still does make a difference.
Another thing is that the single bevel saber grind (scandi) should in theory exceed at shallow cuts. I can't really say how much that theory is proven since a bunch of us are testing slightly modified Moras, but with carrots and similar things you might notice a difference between a Mora and something very thin like a Vic or an Opinel.

I've went into a bit more detail since I got no idea how much you know and what your experience is so pardon me if I've said the things you're already fully aware of.

I'm embarrassed to admit this, styx, but my technical understanding of a knife is really limited to what's printed on its packaging box, i.e., blade length, overall length, material, etc. 


So you dove into knowledge depth about knives that I can't swim into. But after reading your post above, I get this impression that Morakniv really approached knifemaking from a scientific perspective, which is good . Also, I actually contemplated getting a basic Opinel as a kitchen knife for my wife and I'm encouraged to know that the sandi grind is theoretically better than an Opinel.   


For now, I'm just hoping that the 511 carbon will be immensely better at food prep compared to the garden variety cheap knife she's using right now. My ulterior motive here is to soften her opposition to my growing knife addiction. 




Thanks for the education, styx! 

Opinels can get addictive as well  they have a V grind on a thin blade and for slicing you can't get much better  as for the scandi grind it's also good at thin slicing and great for doing feather sticks  I put a convex grind on a mora 2/0 and it's now a awesome little carving knife for taken thicker cuts,but the scandi is a lovely edge for fine detail carving and thinner cuts and feels great in the hand to use 

[an0nemus]

The more inexpensive Moras are easy to own and great knives to experiment with. Now the Kansbol, Garberg and Bushcraft Black do enter the range where you've got more competition from other makers and other designs. So you're very on point with the Vic comparison. A lot of those traditional inexpensive folders simply work. They aren't fancy and one's pride of ownership comes from very personal reasons.

Just don't forget that a lot of the mysticism of Mora comes from the fact that they put a 22° edge angle (11 per side sometimes also written as 11dps) while most other manufacturers put a 40 or even 50° angle. Some of the sharper knives I've tried out had a microbevel at 30 which still does make a difference.
Another thing is that the single bevel saber grind (scandi) should in theory exceed at shallow cuts. I can't really say how much that theory is proven since a bunch of us are testing slightly modified Moras, but with carrots and similar things you might notice a difference between a Mora and something very thin like a Vic or an Opinel.

I've went into a bit more detail since I got no idea how much you know and what your experience is so pardon me if I've said the things you're already fully aware of.

I'm embarrassed to admit this, styx, but my technical understanding of a knife is really limited to what's printed on its packaging box, i.e., blade length, overall length, material, etc. 


So you dove into knowledge depth about knives that I can't swim into. But after reading your post above, I get this impression that Morakniv really approached knifemaking from a scientific perspective, which is good . Also, I actually contemplated getting a basic Opinel as a kitchen knife for my wife and I'm encouraged to know that the sandi grind is theoretically better than an Opinel.   


For now, I'm just hoping that the 511 carbon will be immensely better at food prep compared to the garden variety cheap knife she's using right now. My ulterior motive here is to soften her opposition to my growing knife addiction. 




Thanks for the education, styx! 

Opinels can get addictive as well  they have a V grind on a thin blade and for slicing you can't get much better  as for the scandi grind it's also good at thin slicing and great for doing feather sticks  I put a convex grind on a mora 2/0 and it's now a awesome little carving knife for taken thicker cuts,but the scandi is a lovely edge for fine detail carving and thinner cuts and feels great in the hand to use 

Okay, here's another embarrassing confession. The last time I attempted to sharpen a knife was more than two decades ago when I was first semi-addicted to knives. Since then I have shifted to other interests and only recently went back to this light hobby of mine. So I have yet to buy a sharpening tool and this is the reason why I'm keen to know about the edge retention capability of a carbon steel of the 511. It's encouraging to be told I will only need to do light stropping, for which stropping material are easily accessible for me locally 

[Zed]

The more inexpensive Moras are easy to own and great knives to experiment with. Now the Kansbol, Garberg and Bushcraft Black do enter the range where you've got more competition from other makers and other designs. So you're very on point with the Vic comparison. A lot of those traditional inexpensive folders simply work. They aren't fancy and one's pride of ownership comes from very personal reasons.

Just don't forget that a lot of the mysticism of Mora comes from the fact that they put a 22° edge angle (11 per side sometimes also written as 11dps) while most other manufacturers put a 40 or even 50° angle. Some of the sharper knives I've tried out had a microbevel at 30 which still does make a difference.
Another thing is that the single bevel saber grind (scandi) should in theory exceed at shallow cuts. I can't really say how much that theory is proven since a bunch of us are testing slightly modified Moras, but with carrots and similar things you might notice a difference between a Mora and something very thin like a Vic or an Opinel.

I've went into a bit more detail since I got no idea how much you know and what your experience is so pardon me if I've said the things you're already fully aware of.

I'm embarrassed to admit this, styx, but my technical understanding of a knife is really limited to what's printed on its packaging box, i.e., blade length, overall length, material, etc. 


So you dove into knowledge depth about knives that I can't swim into. But after reading your post above, I get this impression that Morakniv really approached knifemaking from a scientific perspective, which is good . Also, I actually contemplated getting a basic Opinel as a kitchen knife for my wife and I'm encouraged to know that the sandi grind is theoretically better than an Opinel.   


For now, I'm just hoping that the 511 carbon will be immensely better at food prep compared to the garden variety cheap knife she's using right now. My ulterior motive here is to soften her opposition to my growing knife addiction. 




Thanks for the education, styx! 

Opinels can get addictive as well  they have a V grind on a thin blade and for slicing you can't get much better  as for the scandi grind it's also good at thin slicing and great for doing feather sticks  I put a convex grind on a mora 2/0 and it's now a awesome little carving knife for taken thicker cuts,but the scandi is a lovely edge for fine detail carving and thinner cuts and feels great in the hand to use 

Okay, here's another embarrassing confession. The last time I attempted to sharpen a knife was more than two decades ago when I was first semi-addicted to knives. Since then I have shifted to other interests and only recently went back to this light hobby of mine. So I have yet to buy a sharpening tool and this is the reason why I'm keen to know about the edge retention capability of a carbon steel of the 511. It's encouraging to be told I will only need to do light stropping, for which stropping material are easily accessible for me locally 

I'm like many on a tight budget so I use a old leather belt attached to a bit of wood and toothpaste  hey it works  I've also got a bit of leather glued to the lid of my box I keep all my sharpening stones and files in 

[an0nemus]

The more inexpensive Moras are easy to own and great knives to experiment with. Now the Kansbol, Garberg and Bushcraft Black do enter the range where you've got more competition from other makers and other designs. So you're very on point with the Vic comparison. A lot of those traditional inexpensive folders simply work. They aren't fancy and one's pride of ownership comes from very personal reasons.

Just don't forget that a lot of the mysticism of Mora comes from the fact that they put a 22° edge angle (11 per side sometimes also written as 11dps) while most other manufacturers put a 40 or even 50° angle. Some of the sharper knives I've tried out had a microbevel at 30 which still does make a difference.
Another thing is that the single bevel saber grind (scandi) should in theory exceed at shallow cuts. I can't really say how much that theory is proven since a bunch of us are testing slightly modified Moras, but with carrots and similar things you might notice a difference between a Mora and something very thin like a Vic or an Opinel.

I've went into a bit more detail since I got no idea how much you know and what your experience is so pardon me if I've said the things you're already fully aware of.

I'm embarrassed to admit this, styx, but my technical understanding of a knife is really limited to what's printed on its packaging box, i.e., blade length, overall length, material, etc. 


So you dove into knowledge depth about knives that I can't swim into. But after reading your post above, I get this impression that Morakniv really approached knifemaking from a scientific perspective, which is good . Also, I actually contemplated getting a basic Opinel as a kitchen knife for my wife and I'm encouraged to know that the sandi grind is theoretically better than an Opinel.   


For now, I'm just hoping that the 511 carbon will be immensely better at food prep compared to the garden variety cheap knife she's using right now. My ulterior motive here is to soften her opposition to my growing knife addiction. 




Thanks for the education, styx! 

Opinels can get addictive as well  they have a V grind on a thin blade and for slicing you can't get much better  as for the scandi grind it's also good at thin slicing and great for doing feather sticks  I put a convex grind on a mora 2/0 and it's now a awesome little carving knife for taken thicker cuts,but the scandi is a lovely edge for fine detail carving and thinner cuts and feels great in the hand to use 

Okay, here's another embarrassing confession. The last time I attempted to sharpen a knife was more than two decades ago when I was first semi-addicted to knives. Since then I have shifted to other interests and only recently went back to this light hobby of mine. So I have yet to buy a sharpening tool and this is the reason why I'm keen to know about the edge retention capability of a carbon steel of the 511. It's encouraging to be told I will only need to do light stropping, for which stropping material are easily accessible for me locally 

I'm like many on a tight budget so I use a old leather belt attached to a bit of wood and toothpaste  hey it works  I've also got a bit of leather glued to the lid of my box I keep all my sharpening stones and files in 

Ive even read of using the edge of a car window glass for emergency sharpening! So I really don't have any excuse now once that Mora arrives and NOT maintain its sharpness 

[styx]

Car windows work more like your average butcher's steel (the kitchen rod thing most knife sets come with) as in they realign the edge.

In you're strapped for cash, there are some good inexpensive double sided stones that will get most of your needs covered. Especially if you're not going for high polish, slicing very thin paper. A 220 to 250 grit on one side and 1000 on the other is what most people can live with, but don't worry if it's a 400/1000 combined. King, Norton India stones and just about anything with crystolon will work very well and won't break the bank. There are higher end brands which have amazing stones but they also cost more. Alternatively you can use sandpaper.

In my experience, Mora with  their factory scandi will work great on meat and peeling, Opinel's thin flat grind is great for slicing potatoes, cucumbers, carrots and similar things if they are thicker and you don't want them breaking. Just one thing to note with the Opinel - the wood handle can soak water and get difficult to open the knife

[an0nemus]

Car windows work more like your average butcher's steel (the kitchen rod thing most knife sets come with) as in they realign the edge.

In you're strapped for cash, there are some good inexpensive double sided stones that will get most of your needs covered. Especially if you're not going for high polish, slicing very thin paper. A 220 to 250 grit on one side and 1000 on the other is what most people can live with, but don't worry if it's a 400/1000 combined. King, Norton India stones and just about anything with crystolon will work very well and won't break the bank. There are higher end brands which have amazing stones but they also cost more. Alternatively you can use sandpaper.

In my experience, Mora with  their factory scandi will work great on meat and peeling, Opinel's thin flat grind is great for slicing potatoes, cucumbers, carrots and similar things if they are thicker and you don't want them breaking. Just one thing to note with the Opinel - the wood handle can soak water and get difficult to open the knife

Thanks, styx. Informative, as usual. This one is common and inexpensive here. Would this suffice? Even for my SAKs?

[styx]

Yep. I know some mod it with 2 extra holes to put a 15° angle (those are all per side). You'll have to freehand a Mora though or put a microbevel. SAK steel is easy to reprofile and sharpen so it is very forgiving to experiment with. As is Opinel.

I started with a Spyderco Sharpmaker and it was no issue. Now out of pure laziness I'll just hold the rods in hand. So ceramic works, just a bit slower. But it lasts longer since you can clean it. Another benefit of ceramic rods is that you can also sharpen scissors and tools a lot easier

[an0nemus]

Thanks, styx. It narrows down my options a lot and now I now what to get. And I like the fact that I can use the Lansky for other tools in the house

[styx]

Your dykes will never cut better. Only now you don't have an excuse to throw out some tools and get new ones

[an0nemus]

Your dykes will never cut better. Only now you don't have an excuse to throw out some tools and get new ones

well, excuses to buy more knives and tools abound here at 

[styx]

yup, we're a bunch of enablers. and in 144 posts you'll see the biggest enabler of 'em all

[an0nemus]

My first Mora, finally!

2017 511 Carbon for only $11!

[styx]

Congrats

[an0nemus]

Congrats

Thanks! 

[Gerhard Gerber]

Enjoy.......you got the

first

part spot-on!

Like Nutnfancy said about Mora: "Buy 10, or if you don't buy 10 buy 6 at least"......or almost like that 

[an0nemus]

Enjoy.......you got the

first

part spot-on!

Like Nutnfancy said about Mora: "Buy 10, or if you don't buy 10 buy 6 at least"......or almost like that 

This is actually cheaper than SAKs so this should be easier to collect 

[Gerhard Gerber]

This is actually cheaper than SAKs so this should be easier to collect 

I have several...... 

The only ones I use are the Bushcraft Black and the 511 that lives in my car.

The ONLY rip-off Mora I own is the black blade Companion special edition, it was about 3 or 4 times as much as a bog standard Companion, but nobody had a gun to my head when I bought it! 

Locally, I can get 3 or 4 Companions or the utility range for the same price as the Victorinox Farmer (.....that I so badly want  )

I would've liked to complete my Companion collection, I'm only missing 3 or 4  I believe..... (MORA COMPANION F RESCUE, MORA COMPANION FF, MORA COMPANION HD ORANGE)

Same for the utility range, I'm missing several (MORA PRECISION, MORA CHISEL etc)

[an0nemus]

This is actually cheaper than SAKs so this should be easier to collect 

I have several...... 

The only ones I use are the Bushcraft Black and the 511 that lives in my car.

The ONLY rip-off Mora I own is the black blade Companion special edition, it was about 3 or 4 times as much as a bog standard Companion, but nobody had a gun to my head when I bought it! 

Locally, I can get 3 or 4 Companions or the utility range for the same price as the Victorinox Farmer (.....that I so badly want  )

I would've liked to complete my Companion collection, I'm only missing 3 or 4  I believe..... (MORA COMPANION F RESCUE, MORA COMPANION FF, MORA COMPANION HD ORANGE)

Same for the utility range, I'm missing several (MORA PRECISION, MORA CHISEL etc)

Oh, no. I think I'm seeing my own future in your post 

[fivesense]

Once one has engaged in satisfying the Mora or SAK addiction, it's rarely necessary to buy another. But it's also rarely not necessary either!

[an0nemus]

Once one has engaged in satisfying the Mora or SAK addiction, it's rarely necessary to buy another. But it's also rarely not necessary either!

I...am...still....trying....to.....resist........ 

[styx]

give in. better for your nerves

[an0nemus]

give in. better for your nerves

its...just...a...matter....of....time 

[an0nemus]

Yep. I know some mod it with 2 extra holes to put a 15° angle (those are all per side). You'll have to freehand a Mora though or put a microbevel. SAK steel is easy to reprofile and sharpen so it is very forgiving to experiment with. As is Opinel.

I started with a Spyderco Sharpmaker and it was no issue. Now out of pure laziness I'll just hold the rods in hand. So ceramic works, just a bit slower. But it lasts longer since you can clean it. Another benefit of ceramic rods is that you can also sharpen scissors and tools a lot easier

I'm seriously thinking of getting that Lanskys primarily for my SAKs and the 511. As it only comes with two coarse rods, what am I giving up by not having two fine rods?

[fivesense]

Yep. I know some mod it with 2 extra holes to put a 15° angle (those are all per side). You'll have to freehand a Mora though or put a microbevel. SAK steel is easy to reprofile and sharpen so it is very forgiving to experiment with. As is Opinel.

I started with a Spyderco Sharpmaker and it was no issue. Now out of pure laziness I'll just hold the rods in hand. So ceramic works, just a bit slower. But it lasts longer since you can clean it. Another benefit of ceramic rods is that you can also sharpen scissors and tools a lot easier

I'm seriously thinking of getting that Lanskys primarily for my SAKs and the 511. As it only comes with two coarse rods, what am I giving up by not having two fine rods?

I think it depends mostly on your skill and dexterity. You should be fine if you are meticulous with your sharpening.

[an0nemus]

Yep. I know some mod it with 2 extra holes to put a 15° angle (those are all per side). You'll have to freehand a Mora though or put a microbevel. SAK steel is easy to reprofile and sharpen so it is very forgiving to experiment with. As is Opinel.

I started with a Spyderco Sharpmaker and it was no issue. Now out of pure laziness I'll just hold the rods in hand. So ceramic works, just a bit slower. But it lasts longer since you can clean it. Another benefit of ceramic rods is that you can also sharpen scissors and tools a lot easier

I'm seriously thinking of getting that Lanskys primarily for my SAKs and the 511. As it only comes with two coarse rods, what am I giving up by not having two fine rods?

I think it depends mostly on your skill and dexterity. You should be fine if you are meticulous with your sharpening.

Im a total newbie with 0 experience in sharpening. One of my SAKs wasn't even able to cut a paracord yesterday. And I also want to maintain my 511's sharpness.


The guy selling the Lansky is giving me a deep discount. But since it only has two medium rods, will these suffice if I just want to sharpen my knives? 

[styx]

Medium rods leave a finish that is suitable for kitchen duties and a lot of other tasks. They don't push cut as well.

Now a word of caution when it comes to Mora knives and sharpeners with strict angles. Mora knives usually come with an 11 degree per side angle while most set sharpeners go only as low as 15. Lansky I think has 20 and 25 settings. So you would be effectively creating a microbevel and not addressing the whole bevel (from the shoulder to the edge).
The rods themselves can be used for freehand sharpening but that can become a bit hazardous. Still excellent things to have since they can also sharpen tools like wire cutters.

A Lansky turnbox can be modified to have the appropriate angle (you need to drill the holes yourself). The more difficult route would be to go freehand from the get go and learn from your mistakes. There are some very good combination waterstones that are 250 on one side and 1000 grit on the other. The 250 side can vary from 220 to 280. King makes an excellent one, when I remember some other brands you could look at I'll update this.
After that stone a single 6000 or a combination 4000/8000 could cover all your needs and desires.

Now as a side note, the average medium ceramic is about as coarse as the average 600 grit stone. Fine ceramic is about equal to 1000 grit. Ultra fine is between 3000 and 4000.
Not sure how Fallkniven stacks up, but another option, although small is DC4.

[an0nemus]

Medium rods leave a finish that is suitable for kitchen duties and a lot of other tasks. They don't push cut as well.

Now a word of caution when it comes to Mora knives and sharpeners with strict angles. Mora knives usually come with an 11 degree per side angle while most set sharpeners go only as low as 15. Lansky I think has 20 and 25 settings. So you would be effectively creating a microbevel and not addressing the whole bevel (from the shoulder to the edge).
The rods themselves can be used for freehand sharpening but that can become a bit hazardous. Still excellent things to have since they can also sharpen tools like wire cutters.

A Lansky turnbox can be modified to have the appropriate angle (you need to drill the holes yourself). The more difficult route would be to go freehand from the get go and learn from your mistakes. There are some very good combination waterstones that are 250 on one side and 1000 grit on the other. The 250 side can vary from 220 to 280. King makes an excellent one, when I remember some other brands you could look at I'll update this.
After that stone a single 6000 or a combination 4000/8000 could cover all your needs and desires.

Now as a side note, the average medium ceramic is about as coarse as the average 600 grit stone. Fine ceramic is about equal to 1000 grit. Ultra fine is between 3000 and 4000.
Not sure how Fallkniven stacks up, but another option, although small is DC4.

thank you, styx. each and every paragraph provides useful insights. i review this thread regularly when i have question about sharpening. I wont be buying that Lansksy 2-rod anymore (also not advised by jaya_man).


much appreciated!

[styx]

Suehiro also makes a pretty good 280/1000 water stone.

The low grit is for serious damage, the higher can get anything properly sharp.

There are also very high grade companies that make similar stones but they cost about 3 times as much hence me not mentioning them.
Fallkniven's diamond is 25 microns so that is close to a 400 grit stone. The dark ceramic side is 1 micron (according to their website) which is about 6000 and is the white on the CC4 is 0.1 micron it is finer than a 30000 grit stone. Big caveat to this is that many people say their site is wrong and that the dark ceramic side is closer to a 1000 to 1200 stone while the white ceramic is about 4000 to 5000.Personally can't comment on 'em since I don't own them.
Do note that Fallkniven makes a larger benchstone DC5.

Diamond stones aren't a bad way to go, but they are more aggressive and I think more expensive. Some masters of craft like Paul Sellers swear by them (woodworker)

[an0nemus]

Suehiro also makes a pretty good 280/1000 water stone.

The low grit is for serious damage, the higher can get anything properly sharp.

There are also very high grade companies that make similar stones but they cost about 3 times as much hence me not mentioning them.
Fallkniven's diamond is 25 microns so that is close to a 400 grit stone. The dark ceramic side is 1 micron (according to their website) which is about 6000 and is the white on the CC4 is 0.1 micron it is finer than a 30000 grit stone. Big caveat to this is that many people say their site is wrong and that the dark ceramic side is closer to a 1000 to 1200 stone while the white ceramic is about 4000 to 5000.Personally can't comment on 'em since I don't own them.
Do note that Fallkniven makes a larger benchstone DC5.

Diamond stones aren't a bad way to go, but they are more aggressive and I think more expensive. Some masters of craft like Paul Sellers swear by them (woodworker)

Frankly I don't see myself diving deep into sharpening as I'll drown with all the nitty gritty details (pun intended )

Budget and interest limit me to the 4-rod Lansky turnbox system at $20++ that I'll save up for. I'm hoping this will be enough for my meager needs.

I'm concerned though about investing more in Moras if they're mostly 11 degrees in angle and I have to free hand them...

[styx]

Well you can work around it. Since Moras have a nice big bevel, you could put a rod in the 25° setting and tilt your Mora so the bevel if flat on the rod. That way you're not hitting 25° but rather 11°. If you're not in a hurry, I can take some pics later using the Sharpmaker to show you what I mean