Will Victorinox ever...

[Don Pablo]

Hmm. Not really supersteel but id like the blade steel on a spyderco salt or something similar to be used with a sak. I'd like to bring my saks on the beach or on the boat pre-dive since its definitely handy. Granted i wont wet the sak in salt water but the rust from just the exposure is kinda bad and i dont typically wash saks since i cant open it up as i please. I guess having a maintenance free sak is a good step.

Isn't it so that the steel itself is fairly unaffected by salt water, but the alox liners suffer?

All the corroded SAKs I've seen, the liners were in bad shape, rivets too, but the tools pristine.
Better steel wouldn't help here.

To all people working in salty conditions:
Buy a golden Climber 2016.
It costs more since it's limited edition, but has nickel silver liners instead of alox.

And since the tools never corrode... You will have an uncorrodable SAK! 

[Mechanickal]

Hmm. Not really supersteel but id like the blade steel on a spyderco salt or something similar to be used with a sak. I'd like to bring my saks on the beach or on the boat pre-dive since its definitely handy. Granted i wont wet the sak in salt water but the rust from just the exposure is kinda bad and i dont typically wash saks since i cant open it up as i please. I guess having a maintenance free sak is a good step.

Isn't it so that the steel itself is fairly unaffected by salt water, but the alox liners suffer?

All the corroded SAKs I've seen, the liners were in bad shape, rivets too, but the tools pristine.
Better steel wouldn't help here.

To all people working in salty conditions:
Buy a golden Climber 2016.
It costs more since it's limited edition, but has nickel silver liners instead of alox.

And since the tools never corrode... You will have an uncorrodable SAK! 

[Singh]

I'm fine with the steel quality too, not too brittle, not hard to sharpen, and completely rustproof.

Nailed it. Vic steel does it what's is supposed to do: highly rust resistant, easy to sharpen, not too brittle or soft.

[Don Pablo]

I'm fine with the steel quality too, not too brittle, not hard to sharpen, and completely rustproof.

Nailed it. Vic steel does it what's is supposed to do: highly rust resistant, easy to sharpen, not too brittle or soft.

So rust resistant that the aluminium liners will rust away long before.   

[Singh]

Regarding corrosion of the liners on the beach: Steel blade + aluminum liners + salt water (an electrolyte) = galvanic corrosion.

But odds are that the aluminum liners should be fine if you're not in a marine environment,

Or get yourself a custom SAK with a different liner material: brass, Ti, nickel silver , etc

[twiliter]

Beachcomber carry. 

[Don Pablo]

Beachcomber carry. 

Rust proof!

[EMZ]

If you put two different metals together in a salty environment, a galvanic current (electricity) will occur. You can experience that by yourself by eating aluminium foil. Your mouth is a slightly salt environment. When the foil touches your golden teeth or amalgam fillings, the electric current flows through your dental nerve, causing pain.
The least precious metal (the most base metal) will dissolve by the electric current. That is why ships have these large slabs of zinc attached to the hulls, and these slabs have to be replaced once in a while because they are completely dissolved.
A pocket knife contains at least, aluminium, brass and steel. It will rot away in no time after a salt water bath, aluminum first!

[Don Pablo]

If you put two different metals together in a salty environment, a galvanic current (electricity) will occur. You can experience that by yourself by eating aluminium foil. Your mouth is a slightly salt environment. When the foil touches your golden teeth or amalgam fillings, the electric current flows through your dental nerve, causing pain.
The least precious metal (the most base metal) will dissolve by the electric current. That is why ships have these large slabs of zinc attached to the hulls, and these slabs have to be replaced once in a while because they are completely dissolved.
A pocket knife contains at least, aluminium, brass and steel. It will rot away in no time after a salt water bath, aluminum first!

You eat aluminium foil?
Some swiss army knives have nickle liners, not aluminium liners. Those should last longer.

[cody6268]

The steel performs fine to me, holds an edge well and resists rust.  It also sharpens fairly easy on a soapstone. I can't afford a few hundred bucks of specialized diamond stones for those incredibly hard (and brittle) super steels, or go without it while it's being sent off to Spyderco (I do have a UKPK in GIN-1, which is incredibly hard) to get sharpened.  I would like to see carbon steel back for blades, seems one lone little hawkbill is all that uses it now.

My question is, will they ever put the hawkbill/sheepsfoot blade from the larger Champs in thinner, way more affordable SAKs?

[Don Pablo]

The pruner and sheepsfoot blades deserve to be more widely available. 

[nmpops]

The pruner and sheepsfoot blades deserve to be more widely available. 

I hope they leave the steel alone, don't put pocket clips on anything they haven't already and bring back the pen blade on the Cadet.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[pomsbz]

I think that's the point though. Most SAK owners are probably like yourself. Hence super easy sharpening for the non blade enthusiast.

I know you didn't mean to sound condescending when you said that, but I'd like to point out that not all blade enthusiasts are *steel* enthusiasts.

While working my way through college one of my jobs was as a meatcutter for a steak restaurant. While doing that job I gained a real appreciation for a blade that could be made very sharp with minimal effort and touched up quickly so I could get back to work.  The vast majority of people who actually make their living using knives (i.e. the *real* "serious knife users") feel the same way.

I do have a couple of fixed blade knives made of more exotic steels, but VG-10 is as high up the modern steel ladder I'll go for the folders I actually carry. It's a choice I made *consciously*, not out of ignorance.

Whenever I see someone "testing" their S110V knife on 500 linear feet of cardboard, I think to myself, "Dude, buy a box cutter."

I'm not saying those who would like a super steel on their SAK are wrong, but we all know it isn't going to happen in the Victorinox factory. Fortunately, there are some gifted guys out there (like Syph) who can make marvelous things happen.

Have any steel enthusiasts approached third-party makers about getting replacement blades made?

Didn't intend to sound condescending, apologies. My point was that most SAK owners in the world are like my wife. Given it as a present, never sharpened unless using the pull through on the back of the can opener (shudder) and certainly not on stones or a system.

Personally I find sharpening a chore. I do not enjoy it. I would far prefer to be doing something else. As such I want my steel to be one of two things. Either so soft I can strop it up on my trousers (Victorinox) or with an edge that will not require sharpening for months (154cm/S35VN/etc). Unlike users in a butcher who are using the heck out of their knives, most people are not cutting all that much with their pocket knives. They are not requiring almost instant return to that level of sharpness while a customer waits or the deer cools. As such it would be nice not to have to sharpen all that often (super steel) or be able to sharpen it with minimal effort (current SAK steel). As such although I've given up on softer steels in general, my SAK still flies in under the radar, it's so soft and the geometry so good that I can strop it up wherever I am and it will still cut even when it's lost that fine edge. I wouldn't take it if I was doing a lot of serious cutting though. Sharpen once a week or multiple times a day? That's an easy question.

Talking of a box cutter. I lent my Pruner to the packing guy in our work. He's cutting boxes all day long. He usually uses a box cutter but you should have seen his face when he used my Pruner. He ordered one on the spot.

The cardboard cutting tests are not to show how well it will cut cardboard, they're to show how long the edge will last with a known quantity. The tests are valuable as such. I have a Case Sodbuster whose 'tru-sharp' steel will dull from a single slice of cardboard. My SAK does not. That gives me a good idea at how well either will handle other daily tasks. I ran a test with my Pruner when it was new. Two large briskets cleaned and with the fat all trimmed off. Did one with my Pruner, the other with my Opinel (Sandvik 12c27). Both sharpened and stropped up before the start. Amazingly the SAK was sharper than the Opinel at the end. That was a great test for me to understand how it would handle cutting up food, my main use of the large blade on my Pruner.

 

[Don Pablo]

Good viewpoint. 

[carboncopy101]

Hmm. Not really supersteel but id like the blade steel on a spyderco salt or something similar to be used with a sak. I'd like to bring my saks on the beach or on the boat pre-dive since its definitely handy. Granted i wont wet the sak in salt water but the rust from just the exposure is kinda bad and i dont typically wash saks since i cant open it up as i please. I guess having a maintenance free sak is a good step.

Isn't it so that the steel itself is fairly unaffected by salt water, but the alox liners suffer?

Not really familiar with steels and metallurgy but is it possible to transfer the materials or treatment to not just the tools part?

[Don Pablo]

Hmm. Not really supersteel but id like the blade steel on a spyderco salt or something similar to be used with a sak. I'd like to bring my saks on the beach or on the boat pre-dive since its definitely handy. Granted i wont wet the sak in salt water but the rust from just the exposure is kinda bad and i dont typically wash saks since i cant open it up as i please. I guess having a maintenance free sak is a good step.

Isn't it so that the steel itself is fairly unaffected by salt water, but the alox liners suffer?

Not really familiar with steels and metallurgy but is it possible to transfer the materials or treatment to not just the tools part?

You mean coat the aluminium in chrome?
Whatever material the liners are made of, it has to be softer than the tools so that the action is smooth

[carboncopy101]

Not coating or electroplating but creating another alloy for the liners? I see haha never really thought about it hard. I guess i just want a bomb proof SAK. 

[Mechanickal]

Beachcomber carry. 

Prime example!

[twiliter]

Beachcomber carry. 

Prime example!

 

The Spydie has also survived multiple dishwasher cycles. 

[AimlessWanderer]

Not coating or electroplating but creating another alloy for the liners? I see haha never really thought about it hard. I guess i just want a bomb proof SAK. 

They can use whatever liner materials they want, but they chose to use what will make the knife affordable for the masses. There are very few people who would be prepared to pay for knives in exotic materials - this is where the modders have their opportunity. Victorinox produce in enormous quantities which is what helps keep their costs down. They are not going to produce knives in enormous quantities that are too expensive for the average punter to buy. That is a recipe for disaster.

If you want a £20 knife, get a standard Victorinox. Yes, the liners will suffer if you don't look after it. It's a £20 knife!

If you want a non-standard knife, speak to Syph.

If you want Victorinox to put together some supersteel bladed, totally corrosion proof, titanium scaled, pocket clipped, OHO diving knife with GPS and espresso maker at an affordable price ... keep dreaming

[Don Pablo]

Not coating or electroplating but creating another alloy for the liners? I see haha never really thought about it hard. I guess i just want a bomb proof SAK. 

They can use whatever liner materials they want, but they chose to use what will make the knife affordable for the masses. There are very few people who would be prepared to pay for knives in exotic materials - this is where the modders have their opportunity. Victorinox produce in enormous quantities which is what helps keep their costs down. They are not going to produce knives in enormous quantities that are too expensive for the average punter to buy. That is a recipe for disaster.

If you want a £20 knife, get a standard Victorinox. Yes, the liners will suffer if you don't look after it. It's a £20 knife!

If you want a non-standard knife, speak to Syph.

If you want Victorinox to put together some supersteel bladed, totally corrosion proof, titanium scaled, pocket clipped, OHO diving knife with GPS and espresso maker at an affordable price ... keep dreaming

[Don Pablo]

Not coating or electroplating but creating another alloy for the liners? I see haha never really thought about it hard. I guess i just want a bomb proof SAK. 

They can use whatever liner materials they want, but they chose to use what will make the knife affordable for the masses. There are very few people who would be prepared to pay for knives in exotic materials - this is where the modders have their opportunity. Victorinox produce in enormous quantities which is what helps keep their costs down. They are not going to produce knives in enormous quantities that are too expensive for the average punter to buy. That is a recipe for disaster.

If you want a £20 knife, get a standard Victorinox. Yes, the liners will suffer if you don't look after it. It's a £20 knife!

If you want a non-standard knife, speak to Syph.

If you want Victorinox to put together some supersteel bladed, totally corrosion proof, titanium scaled, pocket clipped, OHO diving knife with GPS and espresso maker at an affordable price ... keep dreaming

I would settle for 91mm alox with backtools though.

[carboncopy101]

Not coating or electroplating but creating another alloy for the liners? I see haha never really thought about it hard. I guess i just want a bomb proof SAK. 

They can use whatever liner materials they want, but they chose to use what will make the knife affordable for the masses. There are very few people who would be prepared to pay for knives in exotic materials - this is where the modders have their opportunity. Victorinox produce in enormous quantities which is what helps keep their costs down. They are not going to produce knives in enormous quantities that are too expensive for the average punter to buy. That is a recipe for disaster.

If you want a £20 knife, get a standard Victorinox. Yes, the liners will suffer if you don't look after it. It's a £20 knife!

If you want a non-standard knife, speak to Syph.

If you want Victorinox to put together some supersteel bladed, totally corrosion proof, titanium scaled, pocket clipped, OHO diving knife with GPS and espresso maker at an affordable price ... keep dreaming

That is true. Also the cost won't really be hmm, big? In some ways a sak is modular even making new scale designs that provide new use would be good and i doubt it would cause victorinox a lot of loss. victorinox should continue to innovate and introduce new stuff to their products, i believe that's why they're taking a survey.

They did the altimeter and electronic parts is cheap now and adding gps to the scales is curiously fun haha. A smart SAK would be interesting. And considering it's victorinox it should be good.

[MacGyver]

Not coating or electroplating but creating another alloy for the liners? I see haha never really thought about it hard. I guess i just want a bomb proof SAK. 

They can use whatever liner materials they want, but they chose to use what will make the knife affordable for the masses. There are very few people who would be prepared to pay for knives in exotic materials - this is where the modders have their opportunity. Victorinox produce in enormous quantities which is what helps keep their costs down. They are not going to produce knives in enormous quantities that are too expensive for the average punter to buy. That is a recipe for disaster.

If you want a £20 knife, get a standard Victorinox. Yes, the liners will suffer if you don't look after it. It's a £20 knife!

If you want a non-standard knife, speak to Syph.

If you want Victorinox to put together some supersteel bladed, totally corrosion proof, titanium scaled, pocket clipped, OHO diving knife with GPS and espresso maker at an affordable price ... keep dreaming

That is true. Also the cost won't really be hmm, big? In some ways a sak is modular even making new scale designs that provide new use would be good and i doubt it would cause victorinox a lot of loss. victorinox should continue to innovate and introduce new stuff to their products, i believe that's why they're taking a survey.

They did the altimeter and electronic parts is cheap now and adding gps to the scales is curiously fun haha. A smart SAK would be interesting. And considering it's victorinox it should be good.

As far as i'm concerned they can change or innovate all they want, as long as they also keep producing the classic Sak models i love in the same way and unchanged, i'm all good... 

"If it ain't broken don't fix it..." Create new, but leave the old alone

[AimlessWanderer]

[ThePeacent]

H1 (Spyderco Salts) and Victorinox's steels are my two absolute favorite, because both

- are easy to sharpen, a ceramic, diamond or most abrasives will do
- they won't rust, and you can put them in the dishwasher, carry them through a river or use under the rain without problems
- both will bend rather than chip, and that's better as I often hit really hard stuff or cut touching super-dulling things, in that case a bent edge is way easier and faster to bring back to functional
- not only do they sharpen easily, but they do so to a screaming sharp edge. I can shave with them -from being really dull- in a matter of seconds with a few swipes or passes
- are affordable, much more than most other steels out there

[El Corkscrew]

bring back the Bail....

[AimlessWanderer]

bring back the Bail....

... but put it at the other end ...