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Wool as an outer layer 3476

Zombie Apprentice Posts: 11,221
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #60 on: September 06, 2017, 02:38:05 PM »
squaddie-proof?

Solving problems you didn't know you had in the most obscure way possible

"And now, it's time to hand this over to our tame race axe driver. Some say, he can live in the forest for six months at a time without food, and he knows of a secret tribe of only women where he is their God. All we know is, he's call the Styx!" - TazzieRob
No Life Club Posts: 3,380
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #61 on: September 06, 2017, 03:23:56 PM »
Wool is getting more and more popular here, partly on cause of the increasing awareness of problems with release of microplastics from washing clothes like synthetic fleece.

Wasn't even aware that microplastics are being released by washing synthetics

Just google "fleece microplastics" and you get a ton of hits like e.g. https://www.canadiangeographic.ca/article/fleece-clothing-major-contributor-microplastics-water
No Life Club Posts: 3,380
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #62 on: September 06, 2017, 03:27:02 PM »
Wool is getting more and more popular here, partly on cause of the increasing awareness of problems with release of microplastics from washing clothes like synthetic fleece.

Wasn't even aware that microplastics are being released by washing synthetics
Ditto.
If there is, wouldn't you just need a filter?

The economics and engineering problems of waste water management I leave to someone else to analyze. But, at the time of writing, fibers from synthetic fleece is released in nature when washing the garments, just as cotton and wool fibers, and pieces of dirt, are. :)
Wielder of the Bow of Banishment. Admin Team Point Of No Return Posts: 30,973 El Presidente del Fan Club Micky D
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #63 on: September 06, 2017, 03:34:15 PM »
squaddie-proof?

Ooops.  "Squaddie" is British slang for a soldier, normally of basic Private rank.

Try not to be the person who blunders around and causes everyone else to get out the way.  Everyone else thinks you're a utter...
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 11,221
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #64 on: September 06, 2017, 06:38:28 PM »
squaddie-proof?

Ooops.  "Squaddie" is British slang for a soldier, normally of basic Private rank.

Oh, thanks.

Solving problems you didn't know you had in the most obscure way possible

"And now, it's time to hand this over to our tame race axe driver. Some say, he can live in the forest for six months at a time without food, and he knows of a secret tribe of only women where he is their God. All we know is, he's call the Styx!" - TazzieRob
Hero Member Posts: 693
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #65 on: September 06, 2017, 09:19:49 PM »
So we've discussed the pros and cons of the wool as an outer layer. But I'm curious what we all actually choose to wear when it comes down to it.
Do you reach for wool, synthetic or cotton everyday? Just as important in relationship to your outer wear is what's under it and against your skin.
So what's your choice?

For me I typically pick a performance fleece or hoodie over my synthetic underwear. If it's raining I cover it with a Northface rain jacket. My wool is relegated to socks, hats, and my merino wool Buff(which I edc). I had a few wool sweaters but they no longer fit and are more expensive to replace. My experience is that the wool stretches and shrinks when washed. My midlayers tend to get dirty quickly due to being around locomotives. So a fay or two and they need to be washed. So wool dies faster than my synthetic stuff. All in all my favorite is either an Under armour storm hoodie or a light weight synthetic puffy. They hold up better to my uses.

Zombie Apprentice Posts: 16,659 I'm not a pessimist, I'm an experienced optimist!
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #66 on: September 06, 2017, 10:23:50 PM »
So we've discussed the pros and cons of the wool as an outer layer. But I'm curious what we all actually choose to wear when it comes down to it.
Do you reach for wool, synthetic or cotton everyday? Just as important in relationship to your outer wear is what's under it and against your skin.
So what's your choice?

For me I typically pick a performance fleece or hoodie over my synthetic underwear. If it's raining I cover it with a Northface rain jacket. My wool is relegated to socks, hats, and my merino wool Buff(which I edc). I had a few wool sweaters but they no longer fit and are more expensive to replace. My experience is that the wool stretches and shrinks when washed. My midlayers tend to get dirty quickly due to being around locomotives. So a fay or two and they need to be washed. So wool dies faster than my synthetic stuff. All in all my favorite is either an Under armour storm hoodie or a light weight synthetic puffy. They hold up better to my uses.

Regular daily wear - cotton, wool and synthetics

Out walking - Synthetics

Sat round a fire - wool



The cantankerous but occasionally useful member, formally known as 50ft-trad
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,120
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #67 on: September 07, 2017, 01:15:11 AM »
As an outer layer I mostly wear:
- a jacket that is 43% wool (has zip pockets, good for wallet keys phone)
- a woollen hoody (very warm but pockets aren't very secure) - only if cold and it's too heavy for hiking.
- a 2.5 layer Goretex jacket, either over the woollen jacket or preferably over my (merino) mid layer if it's raining or in windchill situations.

If we're talking hiking etc then I will have either a polyester/nylon or merino shirt depending on the temperature next to the skin.

Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,767 Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over.
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #68 on: September 07, 2017, 02:43:26 AM »
Everyday work clothing, cotton and leather. Some wool when cold.
When it is cold and working outside, pretty much same as above.
Hiking, camping, hunting, same as above. Never was a fan of synthetic, especially when it is warm. It wicks great but does not allow any air through the cool you off. Also, it does not hold up to heat, sparks, work and I had one instance where diesel fuel ruined it.
My vest/waistcoat is my usual outside layer and is made cotton canvas with a wool blanket lining. It has to get really cold before I get my coat. It is made the same way, but thicker and has sleeves. People keep telling me that cotton kills and never should wear it, but I have done fine so far. That is from temperatures of -48F to 116F. Cotton is my primary layer. Shirt, socks etc. So far so good.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 02:56:10 AM by ducttapetech »

Nate

Foxtrot Foxtrot Sierra
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,120
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #69 on: September 07, 2017, 03:14:45 AM »

No Life Club Posts: 3,316
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #70 on: September 07, 2017, 08:09:12 AM »
During most of the year the clothes I wear are cotton or cotton & polyester mix.

During the "Winter" I've gone over to synthetic fleeces, my wool jerseys are old and worn and only good for around the house.

Wool hiking socks, and the rest of my hiking clothes are synthetic, which I found to be a winner.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,120
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #71 on: September 07, 2017, 08:32:45 AM »
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/02/why-cotton-kills-a-technical-explanation/  :pok:
(I haven't read it myself yet)
OK, I have read it now, and it was very informative.  :tu:

And to answer the original question more simply, yes I wear wool as an outer layer if I'm not going to get wet (in which case I wear a rainjacket).

Zombie Apprentice Posts: 11,221
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #72 on: September 07, 2017, 08:59:34 AM »
If we're talking hiking then the base layer is usually cotton (quality synthetics and merino are expensive as hell here), mid layer depends on the time of the year but warmer months either nothing or a long sleeve button up shirt, colder months fleece, wool or some sort of a thicker flannel shirt (no idea if it is but it is damn warm) and a rain jacket/ wind breaker.

Around town and for work this doesn't really apply as I'm mostly in jeans and a leather jacket or have to dress it up

Solving problems you didn't know you had in the most obscure way possible

"And now, it's time to hand this over to our tame race axe driver. Some say, he can live in the forest for six months at a time without food, and he knows of a secret tribe of only women where he is their God. All we know is, he's call the Styx!" - TazzieRob
No Life Club Posts: 3,380
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #73 on: September 07, 2017, 10:55:29 AM »
Even more reason to use natural fibers, be it wool, silk, or cotton: http://www.dw.com/en/plastic-fibers-pervasive-in-tap-water-worldwide-new-study-shows/a-40370206

tl;dr: most drinking water worldwide contains plastic fibers

edit: and the irony of my posting this while wearing a synthetic fleece jacket is not lost on this poster
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 10:57:07 AM by Steinar »
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,120
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #74 on: September 07, 2017, 11:09:32 AM »
Nooooooo!  :ahhh
Don't use cotton as a base layer for hiking! It absorbs too much water.

Wielder of the Bow of Banishment. Admin Team Point Of No Return Posts: 30,973 El Presidente del Fan Club Micky D
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #75 on: September 07, 2017, 11:12:23 AM »
For every day, where do I start?  Cotton or linen shirt, cotton t-shirts etc.  wool jumper or wool waistcoat if it's chilly.  Jackets and coats can be Goretex, cotton, linen, waxed cotton, wool, tweed or leather.  Basically, other than the occasional waterproof, all my day to day stuff is made from natural fibres. 

When it comes to hiking and camping things do change up a lot and a lot more synthetics appear, quick dry trousers and shirts etc.  fleece mid layers and waterproof jackets and over trousers for when it's nasty.  I've discussed this in other threads before, but the one thing I really can't stand is a synthetic "wicking" base layer.  I've tried a lot and spent some money, but they ALL make me sweat, far more than cotton does and that just isn't a good idea as far as I'm concerned.  Lets put it this way; if I'm given the choice of a garment that is absolutely going to bring water into my clothing, beneath my mid layer and my waterproofs, I'd be nuts to wear it.  Not everyone seems to have this problem, but I certainly do.

If a cotton base layer does get wet and the cold is becoming an issue, make sure you have a spare and change into it.

Try not to be the person who blunders around and causes everyone else to get out the way.  Everyone else thinks you're a utter...
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,120
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #76 on: September 07, 2017, 11:17:31 AM »
I've discussed this in other threads before, but the one thing I really can't stand is a synthetic "wicking" base layer.  I've tried a lot and spent some money, but they ALL make me sweat, far more than cotton does and that just isn't a good idea as far as I'm concerned.
Perhaps you're sweating the same regardless, but you don't notice all the sweat that your cotton garments are absorbing, whereas it is more apparent with synthetics because they don't absorb it.

Wielder of the Bow of Banishment. Admin Team Point Of No Return Posts: 30,973 El Presidente del Fan Club Micky D
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #77 on: September 07, 2017, 11:58:40 AM »
I've discussed this in other threads before, but the one thing I really can't stand is a synthetic "wicking" base layer.  I've tried a lot and spent some money, but they ALL make me sweat, far more than cotton does and that just isn't a good idea as far as I'm concerned.
Perhaps you're sweating the same regardless, but you don't notice all the sweat that your cotton garments are absorbing, whereas it is more apparent with synthetics because they don't absorb it.

Perhaps, but I know that I've felt a lot colder and uncomfortable with synthetics than I do with a light cotton.  I've done a lot of winter hiking and camping over the years now and I've experimented a lot and I know what works for me.  YMMV of course and I'd not tell people they're doing it wrong, it's just what works for me.  I'm also using a good old cotton string/mesh under-shirt that still retains air pockets for even if it does get damp or wet.  You can't wear then on their own though and they have zero wind resistance and so a top "capping" layer needs to be put on top.

Try not to be the person who blunders around and causes everyone else to get out the way.  Everyone else thinks you're a utter...
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,767 Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over.
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #78 on: September 07, 2017, 01:18:50 PM »
Nooooooo!  :ahhh
Don't use cotton as a base layer for hiking! It absorbs too much water.
That is why I wear it. It absorbs sweat. Whether I am walking or swing an axe or hammer, it is all still work and I am gonna sweat. The cotton sucks it up then evaporates, keeping me nice and cool. And if it is cold, samething, I just start shedding layers so I don't over heat and the heat from my body plus evaporation will dry it out. Hell, it can be 18F outside and 3 swings with an axe, I start shedding clothing like a stripper in a night club. LOL!  Keeping warm when it is cold and wet is easy, it's keeping cool when it is warm is my biggest issue.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 01:29:21 PM by ducttapetech »

Nate

Foxtrot Foxtrot Sierra
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,120
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #79 on: September 07, 2017, 01:25:43 PM »
Well.... I hope it continues to work for you guys...
It's a big no-no here to wear cotton as a base layer.

Hero Member Posts: 693
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #80 on: September 07, 2017, 02:38:10 PM »
Cotton absorbs and RETAINS so much water. This is why against the skin it feels cool. Be cause it is literally cooling you trough convection heat loss. If your base layer is your only layer, this isn't so horrible if it is warm outside. As it will get wet and act as a heat sink. However if the temp dropped on the same clothing, you would be in danger. The cooling effect would be even greater. As the difference between you body temp and the outside temp increase the more rapidly the loss through convection occurs more rapidly.  You have to keep in mind that the human body wants to maintain a consistent temperature. But to function properly it really to be within an 8* range. Above this it's over heated (hyperthermic)and below its hypothermic. You you are only a few degrees away from hypothermia naturally.
When you wear wet clothes, like cotton that don't dry rapidly ,in cooler conditions you can become hypothermic easily. I'm not talking cold, but 50*F is a good example. At 50*F over an hour without producing any extra heat wet cotton can drop your body temp by as much as 5-7*. That will put you on the path to hypothermia very rapidly.
Changing out of the wet clothes is a great solution, if that is a possibility. However if not, you are in serious danger. That's why it is important to properly pick the right materials when out on a hike or in a situation that may put you at elevated risk.

The other side to consider about cotton and hiking is the amount of moisture retained in high movement areas. The high amount of moisture in high movement areas will result in chaffing.
I have to deal with this in my everyday life. I work at night when the humidity is between 80-100% year round. In cotton  underwear (tops, bottoms/socks) I will chaff due to moisture very rapidly regardless of the outside temp. I do not experience this when wearing wool or synthetic underwear. They allow moisture to be wicked away and is much less uncomfortable.

In conclusion, if you don't like synthetic materials, I would highly recommend merino wool shirts over cotton.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,767 Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over.
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #81 on: September 07, 2017, 03:31:44 PM »
I never had a problem with chaffing when wearing cotton. Wool sometimes bothers me, but usually   when I wear nothing underneath it. So cotton shirt under it again. Still have yet to have any problems. Just what I grew up with I guess. I have learned years ago to shed or put layers back on as I heat up or cool down. We didn't have all of the synthetic stuff that easily available to us now. Nylon wind breaker was about all we could get easily. And those never lasted me long. To hard on them I guess.

Nate

Foxtrot Foxtrot Sierra
No Life Club Posts: 3,316
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #82 on: September 07, 2017, 03:36:12 PM »
..........and cotton pants can make you feel like you're starting a friction fire between your legs......just walk far enough!
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 11,221
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #83 on: September 07, 2017, 03:48:59 PM »
Nooooooo!  :ahhh
Don't use cotton as a base layer for hiking! It absorbs too much water.

For me it is a simple thing of math. Cotton t-shirt is between 25 and 50, depending on the store. Sure there are more expensive ones but those are more style wear than just putting some clothing on.
Synthetic t-shirts can be found for a 190. And those are usually a cotton and synthetic blend. A quick search on a few sites and 100% synthetic goes for about 270. I'm sure if I took more time I'd be able to find them for less, but it is still a hefty price for a single t-shirt that won't last any longer than the inexpensive cotton ones (usually about 3 years)

Now for pants I actually managed to find some very inexpensive (again 200 vs 550+) which work

Solving problems you didn't know you had in the most obscure way possible

"And now, it's time to hand this over to our tame race axe driver. Some say, he can live in the forest for six months at a time without food, and he knows of a secret tribe of only women where he is their God. All we know is, he's call the Styx!" - TazzieRob
Hero Member Posts: 693
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #84 on: September 07, 2017, 04:17:54 PM »
Nooooooo!  :ahhh
Don't use cotton as a base layer for hiking! It absorbs too much water.

For me it is a simple thing of math. Cotton t-shirt is between 25 and 50, depending on the store. Sure there are more expensive ones but those are more style wear than just putting some clothing on.
Synthetic t-shirts can be found for a 190. And those are usually a cotton and synthetic blend. A quick search on a few sites and 100% synthetic goes for about 270. I'm sure if I took more time I'd be able to find them for less, but it is still a hefty price for a single t-shirt that won't last any longer than the inexpensive cotton ones (usually about 3 years)

Now for pants I actually managed to find some very inexpensive (again 200 vs 550+) which work

I'm not sure what currency that is so in not sure if value, but here in the US I can find synthetic t shirts for $3.50 each. That's about the same price for an equivalent cotton undershirt as well.
Now they aren fancy or anything. Just a plain t shirt in black ,white ,blue or grey.
Wielder of the Bow of Banishment. Admin Team Point Of No Return Posts: 30,973 El Presidente del Fan Club Micky D
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #85 on: September 07, 2017, 04:27:41 PM »
I never had a problem with chaffing when wearing cotton. Wool sometimes bothers me, but usually   when I wear nothing underneath it. So cotton shirt under it again. Still have yet to have any problems. Just what I grew up with I guess. I have learned years ago to shed or put layers back on as I heat up or cool down. We didn't have all of the synthetic stuff that easily available to us now. Nylon wind breaker was about all we could get easily. And those never lasted me long. To hard on them I guess.

I think that's the nub of it; if you are going to wear cotton you have to be aware of it's limitations and mitigate them by taking action to stop them getting wet in the first place.  If I lived in a climate where I was guaranteed to break a sweat no matter what I did perhaps I'd feel differently, but I don't, I live in Scotland.;)  I've never had a problem with cotton chaffing either. :think:

Try not to be the person who blunders around and causes everyone else to get out the way.  Everyone else thinks you're a utter...
Hero Member Posts: 693
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #86 on: September 07, 2017, 04:31:58 PM »
I never had a problem with chaffing when wearing cotton. Wool sometimes bothers me, but usually   when I wear nothing underneath it. So cotton shirt under it again. Still have yet to have any problems. Just what I grew up with I guess. I have learned years ago to shed or put layers back on as I heat up or cool down. We didn't have all of the synthetic stuff that easily available to us now. Nylon wind breaker was about all we could get easily. And those never lasted me long. To hard on them I guess.

Yea I'm with you on what you grew up with. I was very similar, my father taught me at a young age to dress in layers. He would say "you can always take away, but you can't add what you don't have". When I was younger we used what we called "thermal underwear " it was a cotton knit fabric in a grid pattern. Usually pretty tight fit to the body. We wore wool on our feet and heads and if really cold as a coat.
Those "windbreaker jackets" were all the rage but I never good luck with them. They always tore quickly.
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 11,221
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #87 on: September 07, 2017, 10:38:19 PM »
Nooooooo!  :ahhh
Don't use cotton as a base layer for hiking! It absorbs too much water.

For me it is a simple thing of math. Cotton t-shirt is between 25 and 50, depending on the store. Sure there are more expensive ones but those are more style wear than just putting some clothing on.
Synthetic t-shirts can be found for a 190. And those are usually a cotton and synthetic blend. A quick search on a few sites and 100% synthetic goes for about 270. I'm sure if I took more time I'd be able to find them for less, but it is still a hefty price for a single t-shirt that won't last any longer than the inexpensive cotton ones (usually about 3 years)

Now for pants I actually managed to find some very inexpensive (again 200 vs 550+) which work

I'm not sure what currency that is so in not sure if value, but here in the US I can find synthetic t shirts for $3.50 each. That's about the same price for an equivalent cotton undershirt as well.
Now they aren fancy or anything. Just a plain t shirt in black ,white ,blue or grey.

Croatian Kuna. 1 US dollar is between 5 and 6 Kunas currently. My guess is that this is more because we aren't a big market. I live in the capital and it doesn't have a whole lot hiking and backpacking shops. Another part is that people are quite traditional in some respects so who knows how well the inexpensive things sell

Solving problems you didn't know you had in the most obscure way possible

"And now, it's time to hand this over to our tame race axe driver. Some say, he can live in the forest for six months at a time without food, and he knows of a secret tribe of only women where he is their God. All we know is, he's call the Styx!" - TazzieRob
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,120
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #88 on: September 07, 2017, 11:18:21 PM »
Have the cotton base layer enthusiasts here tried merino?

(Oh and a draughtsman's trick: You can type the degrees symbol by holding down ALT and typing 0176 or 0186.)

Wielder of the Bow of Banishment. Admin Team Point Of No Return Posts: 30,973 El Presidente del Fan Club Micky D
Re: Wool as an outer layer
« Reply #89 on: September 08, 2017, 12:09:52 AM »
Have the cotton base layer enthusiasts here tried merino?

(Oh and a draughtsman's trick: You can type the degrees symbol by holding down ALT and typing 0176 or 0186.)
Never did, though not for the lack of wanting.  I believe it's come down in price some now, but it used to be smurfing expensive here.  Something to do with it coming from the other side of the world I suspect. :D

Try not to be the person who blunders around and causes everyone else to get out the way.  Everyone else thinks you're a utter...

 

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