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A new experience 1068

Zombie Apprentice Posts: 13,306
Re: A new experience
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2017, 09:08:37 AM »
I just got a new, smaller, EDC bag. Which has got me rethinking my entire bag and contents.

I allready carried a small first aid kit which contained: painkillers, numerous bandages, an emergency mylar blanket, surgical gloves, a small first aid manual, a reanimating mask and a tourniquet.

This has to be shrinked down now ALOT!
Bandages: alot went out, only 1 type remains which is almost like a do-it-all for me. Blanket remained, mask went (mouth to mouth works just as good, only less sanitary), tourniquet went.
The tourniquet was a simple change.
It's a rubber version and is relatively large and heavy.
I replaced it with a long piece of paracord, which can be used as more then 1 tourniquet but also a bunch of other things, while being lighter overall.

So throw in that piece of paracord! If someone has an open artery, you'll be able to save a life!

Buy now or regret later
No Life Club Posts: 3,419
Re: A new experience
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2017, 09:09:51 AM »
I question the importance of fire starting gear in these kinds of situations. I would value bringing proper clothing, and perhaps a blanket, much higher. Starting a fire requires gathering firewood, and half the time in Norway everything is covered in snow, the other half everything is soaked, and the rest of the time there is danger of forest fire. Yes, you can start a fire under all of those conditions (especially the third), but is it optimal use of your resources? Help will probably come in some hours. We aren't talking downed bush planes, we are talking rail through countries with relatively good infrastructure. Sure, fire has its place, but if it's raining and I'm shaking and I have only one good hand... Good rain gear trumps fire steel. (And if it's dry and warm, why do I need the fire right away when help is only few hours away?) Also, anyone trying to control the situation doesn't need me starting a fire in his view too close to a train/bus/whatever leaking oil.

Chocolate and rain/cold weather gear, those are my solutions for most scenarios. ;)

I agree very much on gloves, though.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 09:12:31 AM by Steinar »
No Life Club Posts: 3,656
Re: A new experience
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2017, 10:31:42 AM »
Firstly, glad you guys are okay, not often a train derailment ends so harmlessly  :tu:

We all struggle with this question, Spring is on us very quickly and I realised recently the FAK, and more importantly the anti-histamines need to start going along on hikes again.......wasps are getting active.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,748
Re: A new experience
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2017, 07:39:40 PM »
The important thing is that you are all ok- being shaken like that can be very distressing, even if no one was hurt.  Good on you for thinking "next step" and then "how can this be better handled next time?"

Of course, I speak for all of us when I say I really hope there isn't a next time.

It is a bit concerning that you had no recourse but to hike through the woods to get to a bus- these kinds of things (at least around here) are often populated by elderly folks, and I would hate to think of some of my elderly relatives having to take an impromptu hike through the woods.  I realize that these kinds of things happen, but I know I would be pretty worried.

I second Chako's concerns about a small first aid kit being perhaps on the complete wrong scale for a train derailment, although I suppose having something would be better than having nothing.  I'm just not sure what kind of pocket first aid kit you could carry that could help in a train derailment type accident, as those kinds of injuries are usually a bit beyond a band aid and some Polysporin.

A good set of mechanic's type work gloves would go a long way to helping in just about any situation though- I am a big fan of them, and I use mine for everything.  Plus they are inexpensive (usually between $5-15 depending on what store/type of gloves) and take up virtually no space.

Again, I am glad that you guys, and everyone else on the train are ok.  It's amazing how much crap can happen, whether you are prepared or not.

Def


:salute:

The old people was the reason I thought of a lighter and a saw. There where older people on the train that needed help walking along the tracks. I imagine that in a sitiation where an accident is farther from a road, they might have to be carried etc. A wood saw to cut down some saplings to make a gurney would make things easier. Or if carrying is not an option, stay where we are and make fire if neccesarry to keep warm, while waiting for help. 


I was not thinking about a pocket first aid kit. I was thinking of a proper small kit for my backpack.
like this one. :)

Also, gloves are a good idea. :tu:



-Knívleysur maður er lívleysur maður.
 "A Knifeless man is a lifeless man" old Faroese proverb.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,748
Re: A new experience
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2017, 08:06:21 PM »
I question the importance of fire starting gear in these kinds of situations. I would value bringing proper clothing, and perhaps a blanket, much higher. Starting a fire requires gathering firewood, and half the time in Norway everything is covered in snow, the other half everything is soaked, and the rest of the time there is danger of forest fire. Yes, you can start a fire under all of those conditions (especially the third), but is it optimal use of your resources? Help will probably come in some hours. We aren't talking downed bush planes, we are talking rail through countries with relatively good infrastructure. Sure, fire has its place, but if it's raining and I'm shaking and I have only one good hand... Good rain gear trumps fire steel. (And if it's dry and warm, why do I need the fire right away when help is only few hours away?) Also, anyone trying to control the situation doesn't need me starting a fire in his view too close to a train/bus/whatever leaking oil.

Chocolate and rain/cold weather gear, those are my solutions for most scenarios. ;)

I agree very much on gloves, though.

I dont completely agree with you here.

A lighter is small, light weight and takes very little space.

I can light a fire in most contitions in a few minutes, and even in winter it is easy to find firewood quickly if you know what to look for.
A blanket can keep one person warm, a fire kan warm a group.
Waiting for help for two hours when wet in winter can be deadly. For someone weak from injury it does not have to be very cold before hypothermia can be an issue.

Dont get me wrong. Starting a fire isnt at the top of the list of things I will do unless someone has fallen into water in sub zero weather. 

I totally agree about having good clothes thoug.

Also this country of ours can be pretty unforgiving if you are bit away from people. If I walk 10km from my house as the crow flies, I will have no cell phone coverage at all for the next 20-30km. And I live less than a 100 km from the capital. I have experienced this on most of my camping trips around the country, and also at work when we do a job a few km into the woods away from a populated area. Help isnt always as close as you might think.

-Knívleysur maður er lívleysur maður.
 "A Knifeless man is a lifeless man" old Faroese proverb.
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,748
Re: A new experience
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2017, 08:10:14 PM »
I just got a new, smaller, EDC bag. Which has got me rethinking my entire bag and contents.

I allready carried a small first aid kit which contained: painkillers, numerous bandages, an emergency mylar blanket, surgical gloves, a small first aid manual, a reanimating mask and a tourniquet.

This has to be shrinked down now ALOT!
Bandages: alot went out, only 1 type remains which is almost like a do-it-all for me. Blanket remained, mask went (mouth to mouth works just as good, only less sanitary), tourniquet went.
The tourniquet was a simple change.
It's a rubber version and is relatively large and heavy.
I replaced it with a long piece of paracord, which can be used as more then 1 tourniquet but also a bunch of other things, while being lighter overall.

So throw in that piece of paracord! If someone has an open artery, you'll be able to save a life!

Some bank line in my kit is a good idea. It takes very little space, and is very strong.

Thanks! 
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 08:12:11 PM by Grathr »

-Knívleysur maður er lívleysur maður.
 "A Knifeless man is a lifeless man" old Faroese proverb.
No Life Club Posts: 3,419
Re: A new experience
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2017, 08:19:15 PM »
I question the importance of fire starting gear in these kinds of situations. I would value bringing proper clothing, and perhaps a blanket, much higher. Starting a fire requires gathering firewood, and half the time in Norway everything is covered in snow, the other half everything is soaked, and the rest of the time there is danger of forest fire. Yes, you can start a fire under all of those conditions (especially the third), but is it optimal use of your resources? Help will probably come in some hours. We aren't talking downed bush planes, we are talking rail through countries with relatively good infrastructure. Sure, fire has its place, but if it's raining and I'm shaking and I have only one good hand... Good rain gear trumps fire steel. (And if it's dry and warm, why do I need the fire right away when help is only few hours away?) Also, anyone trying to control the situation doesn't need me starting a fire in his view too close to a train/bus/whatever leaking oil.

Chocolate and rain/cold weather gear, those are my solutions for most scenarios. ;)

I agree very much on gloves, though.

I dont completely agree with you here.

A lighter is small, light weight and takes very little space.

I can light a fire in most contitions in a few minutes, and even in winter it is easy to find firewood quickly if you know what to look for.
A blanket can keep one person warm, a fire kan warm a group.
Waiting for help for two hours when wet in winter can be deadly. For someone weak from injury it does not have to be very cold before hypothermia can be an issue.

Dont get me wrong. Starting a fire isnt at the top of the list of things I will do unless someone has fallen into water in sub zero weather. 

I totally agree about having good clothes thoug.

Also this country of ours can be pretty unforgiving if you are bit away from people. If I walk 10km from my house as the crow flies, I will have no cell phone coverage at all for the next 20-30km. And I live less than a 100 km from the capital. I have experienced this on most of my camping trips around the country, and also at work when we do a job a few km into the woods away from a populated area. Help isnt always as close as you might think.

Very good point on groups, I didn't think about that. Totally agree on the part on cell phones. As for time for help, that was based on an assumption on rail or a similar system where someone notices pretty quickly when something has gone wrong (and implicitly has a good idea of where). Even though it doesn't feel like it, most trains here are newer than the one in your picture.  :D
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 13,343
Re: A new experience
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2017, 07:22:51 PM »
+1!!! 
Glad you are safe that's all that matters


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Barry
No Life Club Posts: 1,657
Re: A new experience
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2017, 05:56:13 PM »
Hi Grathr

Good to know that you, your kids and everyone aboard is safe and sound. Could have been a lot worse.

Just some generalities...

-A pants belt can be used as a tourniquet
-I keep Ace bandage in my backpack. Some of them are even self adhesive, though only due  a rubberized compound, so it can be reapplied and is cuttable
-I think being prepared to make fire is pretty important because in emergencies, we don't know when help will arrive. I carried  Zippo in my pocket for years even though I didn't smoke at the time.
-during our 9/11 and Boston marathon incidents, cell phone towers were jammed with traffic and were essentially inoperative. I like to prepare as if using one to call for help is not an option. Of course, they are very helpful if it is an emergency with a lower case "e", as long as you are in range
-I wonder which train car in the line was derailed...would it have been possible for the conductors to uncooked the derailed car and have everyone board a more forward car and just move on?
-a small frisbee in the pack is great fun and can be used for catching water if you run out in worst case
-I carry a SAK on my pocket or pack and  a Leatherman on my belt so I always have scissors and a saw as eel as plyers and blades and drivers
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,748
Re: A new experience
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2017, 11:23:48 PM »
Hi Grathr

Good to know that you, your kids and everyone aboard is safe and sound. Could have been a lot worse.

Just some generalities...

-A pants belt can be used as a tourniquet
-I keep Ace bandage in my backpack. Some of them are even self adhesive, though only due  a rubberized compound, so it can be reapplied and is cuttable
-I think being prepared to make fire is pretty important because in emergencies, we don't know when help will arrive. I carried  Zippo in my pocket for years even though I didn't smoke at the time.
-during our 9/11 and Boston marathon incidents, cell phone towers were jammed with traffic and were essentially inoperative. I like to prepare as if using one to call for help is not an option. Of course, they are very helpful if it is an emergency with a lower case "e", as long as you are in range
-I wonder which train car in the line was derailed...would it have been possible for the conductors to uncooked the derailed car and have everyone board a more forward car and just move on?
-a small frisbee in the pack is great fun and can be used for catching water if you run out in worst case
-I carry a SAK on my pocket or pack and  a Leatherman on my belt so I always have scissors and a saw as eel as plyers and blades and drivers

:salute:

It was the second wagon from the front. Also the locomotive had gotten two of its wheels off the track, so that would not have been an option.
I guess they could have brought up a service locomotive after some time and disconect the rear wagons and tow those, but that would have taken more time than getting the busses I think. The conductors did their job very well, and the busses was on  their way as fast as humanly possible.

-Knívleysur maður er lívleysur maður.
 "A Knifeless man is a lifeless man" old Faroese proverb.
No Life Club Posts: 1,375
Re: A new experience
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2017, 03:14:31 PM »
Again on the topic of fire, if recent events are any indication of how messed up it can get, do think about the fact that you might have to start a fire with just your off hand. All of a sudden those one hand firesteels don't look so silly any more

Yeah, mini bic-s are indeed awesome...  :rofl:

There is no magic therefore gadgets!
Sr. Member Posts: 426
A new experience
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2017, 06:45:35 PM »
I'm glad you and your son were not injured (or anyone else either).

Do you have a survival tin?
Very small, no bigger than a mint tin (like Altoids or Sucrets). You can buy them ready made, but they're likely to have cheap quality components. You can assemble your own (that's what I did). Fits in a coat pocket or wherever you could fit a small tin of mints.
I 100% agree with your idea to start carrying a SAK with a saw. I never leave home without one, myself. It's indispensable for shelter and fire and also making splints for medical application.

In your situation, you could have had a first aid kit. I'd carry a FAK primarily focused on airway assistance, bleeding control, pain management, and splinting. So have it loaded with a small barrier mask (in case you need to assist someone's breathing), gauze pads and tape (and gloves), Tylenol (or other NON-aspirin analgesic), and Benadryl (a few hundred milligrams worth) to manage any allergic reactions. Carry water purification tablets in the FAK too. This is just the minimum!

Your survival tin, then, should focus on shelter, fire, and signaling. Mine holds a aircraft signaling mirror. Also cram in there a small flat whistle, Mylar space blanket, a fire steel, and several yards of fishing line--as a minimum. You can toss in 2 or 4 small eye screws too. If you're going through the wilderness, it's common to include a set of small fishing weights and fish hooks.

If you have room the the FAK, I'd also put a sharpening steel or stone in there. In survival, you may work your SAK to death and you'll want to be able to sharpen it. I'd also carry as much cordage and you can reasonably stash in your gear.

If you can carry a SAK with blades, awl, and saw you shouldn't need to take up precious space in your kits with knives.

A side note on the barrier mask: If rescue is more than a few minutes away, rescue breathing or CPR will be unsuccessful. The person should be considered "expectant" and you'll want to make the very hard decision to conserve your energy for survival. If you exhaust yourself attempting to revive a deceased person, you will likely end up dying too.

Thanks for this thread. These are important things to think about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 06:57:41 PM by Tired_Yeti »
Sr. Member Posts: 426
Re: A new experience
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2017, 03:06:00 AM »
In other news, I'm giving lessons in how to kill a thread in a single post. My technique seems flawless if anyone's interested.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,076 Never gonna run around and desert the SAKs
Re: A new experience
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2017, 09:55:56 AM »
How? :think:

Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!
Sr. Member Posts: 426
A new experience
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2017, 02:07:09 PM »
How? :think:
Put too much information in a single post and don't leave enough unanswered questions...I guess. LOL!

Although, I didn't address navigation needs and no one brought it up.
I thought this thread was going to go down the path of accident preparedness. Instead, it quickly cooled to a simmer. The OP talked about a railroad mishap. I think between planes, trains, and automobiles, there's plenty of fodder for discussion.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 02:11:44 PM by Tired_Yeti »
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,748
Re: A new experience
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2017, 06:58:50 PM »
Thanks for the long reply yeti!
I dont think Ill carry a survival kit for long time survival with me. It will be too much stuff to lug around on fairly civiliced trips.

My thought where more for short term emergencys until help arrives.

As for navigation, my phone has a fairly good compass. Also when the sun is up, all I need is my wrist watch to find south.

-Knívleysur maður er lívleysur maður.
 "A Knifeless man is a lifeless man" old Faroese proverb.

 

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