won't honor warranty.

[ThundahBeagle]

I'm not a moderator here, but if you permit me...

Fellas, let's step back a bit to retain a little decorum.

Ryan received a bum tool (no snickering necessary)
Kaput raises an interesting point

-I have no doubt that Leatherman would have honored the warranty had Ryan simply filled out the form and sent the tool in.

-At some point, Leatherman learned that Ryan had just received the tool via Amazon/ NetRush, and so Leatherman directed Ryan to go back through them for the fastest possible resolution (they have one in a local warehouse they can ship to him in faster time)

-Ryan somehow mistook this for a lack of service. Anyone who has purchased through Amazon knows you have a window during which you can return your item. You can then order another. But Ryan sees the info about Leathermans warranty, so got confused.

-Where I think Kaput is put off, is that it seems Ryan may have flown off the handle a little bit. He seems to have gone from zero to 60 in too short a time, without fully understanding the process, and his post here and on YouTube were, to Ryan's view, an attempt to put attention to the matter and get resolution, while to Kaput (and others), believe that Leatherman and NetRush Amazon were already in-process doing what they could and were not given proper time and opportunity to make good

Meanwhile, Ryan's posts have cast (unnecessary?) aspersions onto Leatherman.

We are all friends here. The more seasoned of us try to guide the younger bucks. The younger bucks would do well to allow themselves to be guided.

I think we can all agree that this Surge should never have left the factory in this condition. That was the point at which the totality of this situation could have been avoided.

Leatherman warranty is nothing short of epic, but it would be nice if the building process and QC/ QA made sure that the warranty need only apply to tools that have already had years of use, rather than one falling apart out of the box.

[kaput]

@TB 

[Aloha]

@TB 

 

[SteveC]

Well said TB !   

[Syncop8r]

Well said TB !   

+1

Thundahbeagle for Moderator! Or the UN!

[Top-Gear-24]

I'm with Ryan on this one.

Personally I would have gone to the retailer first, and I think most here would agree. However, I think most here would also agree is the guy just wanted what he'd paid for, and Leatherman could have been more helpful in there response, even if it was just a clearer explaination.

I'm glad you got a satisfactory settlement, Ryan 

+1

Well said mate  .

And Leatherman might have this awesome warranty in the U.S., but in other countries it's often a different story.  So when I read things like "Leatherman won't honor warranty, which is a lie  . It annoys me" it kind of annoys me, to be honest. I'm sure some might say that, again, this is not Leatherman's fault, But for customers outside the U.S., the local distributor IS Leatherman, or at least an extension of Leatherman, and I do think it's their responsibility to make sure their excellent U.S. warranty is available for their foreign enthusiasts/customers also. Especially when they maintain the current level of QC ...

The way I see it, in this case, Leatherman should be grateful that Net Rush handled it so good, Net Rush had to clean up the mess that Leatherman made by letting this dud leave the factory (once again ...).  We're talking about a first time customer who had quite a disappointing first experience with the Leatherman brand, and thanks to Net Rush this customer now has a Leatherman on his belt, and is thinking about buying another one ... Well played Net Rush, I'd say ... 

So what do we say Leatherman ?  Thank you Net Rush ... 

[gerleatherberman]

TY thundahbeagle. Quite a well written post, sir! A level of reasoning that needed to be said.
BUT, lets just clarify one last thing, if y'all don't mind.
The Surge that was defective was not a "dud" in the common sense of the word. The can opener did not lockup correctly. That is it really. It is a minor QC oversight.
A "dud" typically has multiple issues. For around $90-$100, the Surge is well below its' competitor's pricing on similar tools...If there are actually any comparable tools. I just don't know of any.
QC suffers first when people won't pay extra for extra quality. The LM warranty takes care of this though.

[Top-Gear-24]

TY thundahbeagle. Quite a well written post, sir! A level of reasoning that needed to be said.
BUT, lets just clarify one last thing, if y'all don't mind.
The Surge that was defective was not a "dud" in the common sense of the word. The can opener did not lockup correctly. That is it really. It is a minor QC oversight.
A "dud" typically has multiple issues. For around $90-$100, the Surge is well below its' competitor's pricing on similar tools...If there are actually any comparable tools. I just don't know of any.
QC suffers first when people won't pay extra for extra quality. The LM warranty takes care of this though.

A minor QC oversight that left one of the tools useless ... (I thought this was on the Captain his Surge ...  ).

If I remember correctly the OP had several problems:

... The inside the handle tools just flopped out, the end caps that are held in place with the security torx were loose, and the worst was one side of the handle doesn't "click" into place so when you close the pliers onto something once you try to open it the handle folds out before the pliers open ...

On my Surge the spring on the scissors broke, after only being used like two times, the end caps were also loose and didn't align with the handle,  and I also had to tighten the inside tools ... And if you want to buy a Surge over here at a local store, you'll need to dig up 189 Euro.  Call me nitpicky, but for that amount I expect a tool that has zero "minor QC oversights" ...

[AimlessWanderer]

TY thundahbeagle. Quite a well written post, sir! A level of reasoning that needed to be said.
BUT, lets just clarify one last thing, if y'all don't mind.
The Surge that was defective was not a "dud" in the common sense of the word. The can opener did not lockup correctly. That is it really. It is a minor QC oversight.
A "dud" typically has multiple issues. For around $90-$100, the Surge is well below its' competitor's pricing on similar tools...If there are actually any comparable tools. I just don't know of any.
QC suffers first when people won't pay extra for extra quality. The LM warranty takes care of this though.

A minor QC oversight that left one of the tools useless ... (I thought this was on the Captain his Surge ...  ).

If I remember correctly the OP had several problems:

... The inside the handle tools just flopped out, the end caps that are held in place with the security torx were loose, and the worst was one side of the handle doesn't "click" into place so when you close the pliers onto something once you try to open it the handle folds out before the pliers open ...

On my Surge the spring on the scissors broke, after only being used like two times, the end caps were also loose and didn't align with the handle,  and I also had to tighten the inside tools ... And if you want to buy a Surge over here at a local store, you'll need to dig up 189 Euro.  Call me nitpicky, but for that amount I expect a tool that has zero "minor QC oversights" ...

 

Multiple quality issues on a supposedly top rate tool, and an unhelpful response from the customer care team. Ryan is getting called out for being overly critical, but with respect to all, I think some people here are getting overly/disproportionately defensive/protective of the brand. Top end pricing, multiple defects on a single product, and poor customer aftercare is not a good equation. Ryan was more than entitled to be unhappy with the cards he was dealt, even if he did contact people in the wrong order.

I don't care how much you like the brands or products, you don't attack other customers for being unhappy with poor products, and abrupt support responses. Plus, to echo TG, they DO NOT offer the same level of service everywhere their products are sold.

[SteveC]

I'm with Ryan on this one.

Personally I would have gone to the retailer first, and I think most here would agree. However, I think most here would also agree is the guy just wanted what he'd paid for, and Leatherman could have been more helpful in there response, even if it was just a clearer explaination.

I'm glad you got a satisfactory settlement, Ryan 

+1

Well said mate  .

And Leatherman might have this awesome warranty in the U.S., but in other countries it's often a different story.  So when I read things like "Leatherman won't honor warranty, which is a lie  . It annoys me" it kind of annoys me, to be honest. I'm sure some might say that, again, this is not Leatherman's fault, But for customers outside the U.S., the local distributor IS Leatherman, or at least an extension of Leatherman, and I do think it's their responsibility to make sure their excellent U.S. warranty is available for their foreign enthusiasts/customers also. Especially when they maintain the current level of QC ...

The way I see it, in this case, Leatherman should be grateful that Net Rush handled it so good, Net Rush had to clean up the mess that Leatherman made by letting this dud leave the factory (once again ...).  We're talking about a first time customer who had quite a disappointing first experience with the Leatherman brand, and thanks to Net Rush this customer now has a Leatherman on his belt, and is thinking about buying another one ... Well played Net Rush, I'd say ... 

So what do we say Leatherman ?  Thank you Net Rush ... 

Also well said   

[SteveC]

Multiple quality issues on a supposedly top rate tool, and an unhelpful response from the customer care team. Ryan is getting called out for being overly critical, but with respect to all, I think some people here are getting overly/disproportionately defensive/protective of the brand. Top end pricing, multiple defects on a single product, and poor customer aftercare is not a good equation. Ryan was more than entitled to be unhappy with the cards he was dealt, even if he did contact people in the wrong order.

I don't care how much you like the brands or products, you don't attack other customers for being unhappy with poor products, and abrupt support responses. Plus, to echo TG, they DO NOT offer the same level of service everywhere their products are sold.

Quality control issue aside.

There is no doubt this could have been handled better by Leatherman initially by explaining better why they wanted Ryan to go through the Amazon dealer with his return and replacement.

 I do think that Ryan now happy with Net Rush taking care of him should take the Video down being that it isn't true that Leatherman won't honor their warranty.

[Ryan78matin]

I'd have to say some are right in their comments. While not a "young buck " (I'm 40 and a supervisor for an aerospace company doing prototype work)  I do still have a lot to learn and always will.  Did i maybe get heated fast?  Possibly.  But I don't think I can state enough that I tried to contact Leatherman REPEATEDLY before I got the first vague response.  The tool didn't just have minor defects. It was unusable. The loose tools and end caps were a small issue.  But the pliers rendered it useless. Adding them all together it was unacceptable from me.

Now I only expect out of a retailer what they say they will do. I can't remember EVER calling, emailing, or chasing a company just to whine or get something free.  That's just not me.  So I do take quite a bit of umbrage when it's implied. In fact, more than once I've just taken things I've purchased as a loss when they came broke.  Those things were from company's I knew were a gamble.

Even if the tool had came with the minor defects, I would still have had it replaced. I would have been more patient... only if I could still USE the tool while I waited it out.

I admit fully that I was ignorant of the chain of command when not ordering directly from Leatherman.  To, me, this is  beside the issue. If Leatherman's customer service was as fantastic as some experts have opined why didn't this get sorted BEFORE I decided to take more drastic measures? 
I did NOT email them once and then go ape sh@t. I continually did until I got that vague answer.  Now, at this point I was angry and I asked for clarification.  I asked that if the retailer I bought it from didn't replace it was the original warranty still an option.  I never got another response.  I THEN moved onto net rush.  I had quite the time getting anywhere on that end.

Once I posted the video, which I'd like to remind anyone still reading this far, was only to show the forum the tool. I decided one last time to send it to both Leatherman and net rush.  I had already arranged with Amazon to just send it back and get my refund as both had quit responding to me. Low and behold I got emails from both of them!! Crazy I know. Both of them were very helpful.

Now my opinion is that if leatherman was such a fantastic company with such outstanding customer service, that this would have never gotten this far if they sent a follow up email.  And further and more importantly,  if the tool had come as advertised. While 100$ isn't the end of the world, it's not penny's.

I admit I could have been more patient but I also think they would have never responded if I hadn't gotten as aggressive as I did. Which wasn't very at all

[Ryan78matin]

And you're right. I'm happy net rush cleaned up Leatherman's mess. Video is gone.

[Top-Gear-24]

Looks like it's about time to stop talking about the wrongs in this story, and start focussing on the rights ...

All QC issues aside, when they do get it right, Leatherman still produces magnificent tools, you just need a bit more luck buying one these days than you used to a couple of years ago ... (and this can be said for a lot of things these days  ).

[Syncop8r]

Perhaps you just kept getting the Tea Lady in your first few emails. 

Although I didn't think that first reply was so bad or wrong, just a bit brief.

Anyway, how's the Wave going (we need pics  ) and when are you getting a Surge?

[Syncop8r]

Looks like it's about time to stop talking about the wrongs in this story, and start focussing on the rights ...

All QC issues aside, when they do get it right, Leatherman still produces magnificent tools, you just need a bit more luck buying one these days than you used to a couple of years ago ... (and this can be said for a lot of things these days  ).

[AimlessWanderer]

Ryan, while you made a couple of booboos along the way, I think you were quite patient initially, and entitled to your frustrations. I also think that in light of some of the comments you have received in this thread, you have handled things quite well here too 

I'm glad you have reached a point where you can now draw a line under the events and move forwards. While some have been quite supportive of the company, I will always be inclined to side with the consumer, unless they do something daft (like contacting the wrong people  ) The numerous tool problems were not of your making, neither was the frustrating lack of guidance from the manufacturer. Despite that you have praised those who helped you, and been prepared to try again with the manufacturer who let you down in multiple ways.

If you do move forward to get a Surge, I hope you have better luck with the product and customer service. I also hope you'll stick around here and become a frequent contributer to our wider multitool community 

Good luck with your tool/s, and I look forward to hear how you get along with the Wave 

[SteveC]

Ryan, while you made a couple of booboos along the way, I think you were quite patient initially, and entitled to your frustrations. I also think that in light of some of the comments you have received in this thread, you have handled things quite well here too 

I'm glad you have reached a point where you can now draw a line under the events and move forwards. While some have been quite supportive of the company, I will always be inclined to side with the consumer, unless they do something daft (like contacting the wrong people  ) The numerous tool problems were not of your making, neither was the frustrating lack of guidance from the manufacturer. Despite that you have praised those who helped you, and been prepared to try again with the manufacturer who let you down in multiple ways.

If you do move forward to get a Surge, I hope you have better luck with the product and customer service. I also hope you'll stick around here and become a frequent contributer to our wider multitool community 

Good luck with your tool/s, and I look forward to hear how you get along with the Wave 

Here here !   and a big +1   

[Ryan78matin]

 you're correct. Their first email wasn't wrong. I would even say it wasn't vague. It was the lack of answering any more of my questions.

The Wave is okay for what it is but it's a bit small and tool light for my daily needs. I will be buying a surge. I think it'll cover everything well

[Ryan78matin]

I didn't know the wave was so much smaller than the surge.  I thought they were relatively the same size. I liked the Surge. It felt... beefy... in hand. The Wave seems to be a great tool also. It works well for clipping mig wire. I use the knife all day.  I wish the scissors were as stout as the surges and I REALLY miss the T slot tool. But I have to say, for a free tool its outstanding. It does what it's supposed to great, and it will fill in nicely until I get my Surge. 

Then I'd be more than happy to send it to kaput of he'd like it.  (Sorry I couldn't resist)  but seriously I would be more than happy to send it to someone seriously in need.  Maybe there's someone who really likes the tool but with kids etc just can't justify buying it.

[Aloha]

We don't have to agree on how to handle things.  What we can all agree on is getting a tool we paid our hard earned money on and getting anything less that a working tool sucks. 

Do duds come from the factory?  Sure.  Seems we have seen our fair share.  On the bright side.  When Leatherman does get it right, oh boy.  Not all tools appeal to everyone and hand size, needs, personal views , etc all play a part but daggone it the Surge is KING.  I hope when you finally decide to get one its flawless and you stay around to share thoughts on it. 

[Ryan78matin]

 Some others ARE right. After some work Leatherman said they'd ultimately fix the tool if sent.  I'd like to request if possible a moderator change the title to...i don't know...Sad Surge Day. Thanks!

Unless I can edit it myself.

[Syncop8r]

Some others ARE right. After some work Leatherman said they'd ultimately fix the tool if sent.  I'd like to request if possible a moderator change the title to...i don't know...Sad Surge Day. Thanks!

Unless I can edit it myself.

You can only change it in your current post. ^

[SteveC]

Having recently acquired a Surge myself I think you will be more than happy with it. 

[fivesense]

I find this all just a bit ridiculous. LM QC notwithstanding, if you order something from Amazon and it is not up to spec, return it immediately before disparaging the product manufacturer. Give the ASAP return a chance. The whole process of receiving an exchange would take infinitely less time than wrangling with the manufacturer's customer service. If the exchange is also not up to snuff then you have a case.

[kaput]

Some others ARE right. After some work Leatherman said they'd ultimately fix the tool if sent.  I'd like to request if possible a moderator change the title to...i don't know...Sad Surge Day. Thanks!

Unless I can edit it myself.

How bout a mod changes the title and closes the thread, the issue has been resolved all the other points that keep getting brought up are moot and another issue. This has been rehashed a dozen times over. It should have been left with ThundahBeagles post or another with a softer tongue. (Definitley not me or 50ft  )

We don't have to agree on how to handle things.  What we can all agree on is getting a tool we paid our hard earned money on and getting anything less that a working tool sucks. 

Do duds come from the factory?  Sure.  Seems we have seen our fair share.  On the bright side.  When Leatherman does get it right, oh boy.  Not all tools appeal to everyone and hand size, needs, personal views , etc all play a part but daggone it the Surge is KING.  I hope when you finally decide to get one its flawless and you stay around to share thoughts on it.

THIS.

/thread

[Ryan78matin]

 Okay.  Well I don't agree.  I can't say it again. I tried both the Amazon retailer and leatherman with no help until I took aggressive measures.  I still firmly believe that leatherman dropped the ball on this.  They didn't offer replacement or repair of the surge until WELL after it went back for refund and I was told it was out of stock.

Thanks to those with helpful comments but I will quietly retract my offer of the gift wave I received to someone in need and step out of the forum. While leatherman is a good tool I am not about to argue to the death that they DID send out an inferior tool, wasted my time and money, and left me with a tool I didn't originally want. 

Their offer of repair or replacement came little too late.  If you disagree?  Well I've more than seen the fanaticism some hold in this forum for the company.  To me, in my opinion, its wearing a pair of blinders. I didn't whine or squeak.  I asked polite and civil questions that didn't get answered until too late.  The tool was already out of my hands, back to the retailer. 

IF Leatherman was the upstanding quality company some say they are the retailer wouldn't matter.  Net rush was an authorized dealer.  Leatherman SHOULD have just said,  "send us the tool and paperwork and we'll fix it." End.  Of. Story.  Anything else, chain of command, Amazon, etc, is just an excuse for poor quality and customer service. 

So with that, I'll kindly take my leave.  I wish you all well.  Thanks for the suggestions and fair comments. I agree, this has become ridiculous. The suggestion of shutting it down so nobody else could say their peice, right or wrong, is just too much.

[SteveC]

I find this all just a bit ridiculous. LM QC notwithstanding, if you order something from Amazon and it is not up to spec, return it immediately before disparaging the product manufacturer. Give the ASAP return a chance. The whole process of receiving an exchange would take infinitely less time than wrangling with the manufacturer's customer service. If the exchange is also not up to snuff then you have a case.

Again you step in late to fan the fire....not cool  !


: Edited because I put the wrong quote in

[gerleatherberman]

Me.

Some others.

Oh yeah, I forgot, one more.
 

[AimlessWanderer]

Again you step in late to fan the fire....not cool  !

 

Did you quote the right post here, Steve?

I hadn't read this post of Ryan's as inflammatory 

EDIT - Resolved