Worrying times for UK knife retailers

[daverobson]

I've just received this from Heinnie Haynes,  the UK’s largest online retailer of knives and their accessories.

https://www.heinnie.com/blog/heinnie-haynes-response-to-the-home-secretarys-announcement/?utm_source=Heinnie+Haynes+-+from+website+signup&utm_campaign=6c814c64e0-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_10_06&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_15c01d759b-6c814c64e0-146668701&mc_cid=6c814c64e0&mc_eid=f3e8853c1e

"On July 18th, 2017, the Home Secretary announced her intention to tighten the law in order to stop under 18s being able to purchase knives. The proposed measures would mean anyone who bought a knife online would be required to collect it in person, with retailers responsible for checking the age of all buyers".

I know the UK Government has to be seen to be taking action against knife crime but considering that knife related offences in the UK are made using ordinary kitchen knives the proposed action will only affect the ordinary law abiding community.

[Steinar]

"Buy 10 foot poles! Only the finest 10 foot poles! Best prices for 10 foot poles!"

So, no, I won't touch this one. 

[styx]

What about out of town or international customers? Well it might not apply for international customers since the knives are shipped out of the country anyway. Out of curiosity, if it is illegal for minors to purchase tobacco and alcohol in the UK, do workers at supermarkets check the age? Locally they should but don't. Only time they don't sell alcohol is when there are too many people around that might complain and the minor is very obvious.

[Ron Who]

What about out of town or international customers? Well it might not apply for international customers since the knives are shipped out of the country anyway. Out of curiosity, if it is illegal for minors to purchase tobacco and alcohol in the UK, do workers at supermarkets check the age? Locally they should but don't. Only time they don't sell alcohol is when there are too many people around that might complain and the minor is very obvious.

Some shop keepers just want to make as much money as they can and don´t  give a d**m about their responsibility to society.

[Aloha]

Legitimate question, Does the Home Secretary not realize that most homes have kitchen knives?  There really is not a reason to buy a knife.  I watched a series of videos related to knife crime in the UK as I was really quite unaware the sheer number of incidents.  Its a bit surprising and while I can understand efforts to curb knife related crimes this seems not well thought out. 

[ThePeacent]

poor Heinnie, I bought twice from them, knives included.
Their service was top notch   

[Syncop8r]

I know the UK Government has to be seen to be taking action against knife crime but considering that knife related offences in the UK are made using ordinary kitchen knives the proposed action will only affect the ordinary law abiding community.

Since most knife-related offences involve kitchen knives, do they mostly occur in the home?

[Ron Who]

I know the UK Government has to be seen to be taking action against knife crime but considering that knife related offences in the UK are made using ordinary kitchen knives the proposed action will only affect the ordinary law abiding community.

Since most knife-related offences involve kitchen knives, do they mostly occur in the home?

In The Netherlands, yes. Most violence is domestic anyway.

[Smashie]

I know the UK Government has to be seen to be taking action against knife crime but considering that knife related offences in the UK are made using ordinary kitchen knives the proposed action will only affect the ordinary law abiding community.

Since most knife-related offences involve kitchen knives, do they mostly occur in the home?

No, bust kitchen knives are the main culprits

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/07/teenager-arrested-after-17-year-old-kyle-yule-stabbed-death-gillingham-kent
https://www.964eagle.co.uk/news/uk-news/2397429/boy-15-arrested-after-fatal-stabbing-in-neasden/

[Syncop8r]

I know the UK Government has to be seen to be taking action against knife crime but considering that knife related offences in the UK are made using ordinary kitchen knives the proposed action will only affect the ordinary law abiding community.

Since most knife-related offences involve kitchen knives, do they mostly occur in the home?

No, bust kitchen knives are the main culprits

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/07/teenager-arrested-after-17-year-old-kyle-yule-stabbed-death-gillingham-kent
https://www.964eagle.co.uk/news/uk-news/2397429/boy-15-arrested-after-fatal-stabbing-in-neasden/

I didn't see any mention on what type of knife was used in those articles. 

[Smashie]

I know the UK Government has to be seen to be taking action against knife crime but considering that knife related offences in the UK are made using ordinary kitchen knives the proposed action will only affect the ordinary law abiding community.

Since most knife-related offences involve kitchen knives, do they mostly occur in the home?

No, bust kitchen knives are the main culprits

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/07/teenager-arrested-after-17-year-old-kyle-yule-stabbed-death-gillingham-kent
https://www.964eagle.co.uk/news/uk-news/2397429/boy-15-arrested-after-fatal-stabbing-in-neasden/

I didn't see any mention on what type of knife was used in those articles. 

You could put money on they were kitchen knives, I wouldn't bet against you

[Syncop8r]

I can't imagine they would be easy to carry on your person.
Some of stabbings in the street that I have read about here involved SAKs, not sure what sort of knives the others have been.

[Smashie]

I can't imagine they would be easy to carry on your person.
Some of stabbings in the street that I have read about here involved SAKs, not sure what sort of knives the others have been.

Ok you obviously know more about what's happening here than we do so I'll bow out

[AimlessWanderer]

Occasionally, you'll see an interview when someone in the media is interviewing one of the hoodie wearing inbred knuckle dragging smurfwits that wanders round estates up to no good, and they'll invariably pull a kitchen knife out. Ugly looking smurfers they are, all their faces are blurred - should make them easy for the coppers to spot 

One I saw in an interview was carrying a cleaver down his trousers  He said he carried it cos it was scarier. I just hope it was sharp enough to remove him from the gene pool if he started running with it there:whistle:

[Syncop8r]

I can't imagine they would be easy to carry on your person.
Some of stabbings in the street that I have read about here involved SAKs, not sure what sort of knives the others have been.

Ok you obviously know more about what's happening here than we do so I'll bow out

If everyone knew everything then there would be no need for discussion.

[AimlessWanderer]

I have just sent a very carefully worded letter to my MP, explaining in language that non-knife people would understand, all the flaws in the proposals. I have intentionally written it in a way that promotes responsible knife carry, and highlights just some of the ways I personally have been able to significantly save the day using bladed tools (both within and outside the sub 3" non-locking guidance for general purpose carry).

I am not going to post it here, but if any UK member would like to see it, either just out of interest, or for potential ideas for contacting your own MP, drop me a PM  I know letter writing is not everyone's forte, so if anyone would like some help compiling a well worded letter of their own, again feel free to PM me, and I'll do what I can to help 

[Syncop8r]

https://www.theguardian.com/membership/2017/jul/29/almost-a-quarter-of-shops-illegally-sell-knives-to-underage-people

[sak60]

I’ve seen Wessex Blades has been active on this topic and has some vids (ideas) about it.

[Etherealicer]

I can't imagine they would be easy to carry on your person.
Some of stabbings in the street that I have read about here involved SAKs, not sure what sort of knives the others have been.

Ok you obviously know more about what's happening here than we do so I'll bow out

Maybe you could provide us with a good reference?

All I can find is that knife stabbings are listed i as sharp objects, so it seems the official report does not even distinguish between knife and broken bottle (official statistics). Does actual statistics exist? Best I can find is Mail Online claiming "The most common knife involved in these deaths is a knife from the kitchen" but since we don't know how many categories there are, this is pretty insignificant.

Occasionally, you'll see an interview when someone in the media is interviewing one of the hoodie wearing inbred knuckle dragging smurfwits that wanders round estates up to no good, and they'll invariably pull a kitchen knife out. Ugly looking smurfers they are, all their faces are blurred - should make them easy for the coppers to spot 

One I saw in an interview was carrying a cleaver down his trousers  He said he carried it cos it was scarier. I just hope it was sharp enough to remove him from the gene pool if he started running with it there:whistle:

Yeah, the media, well known for bringing unbiased, well represented and researched news

[Syncop8r]

I had a bit of a look too but couldn't find anything on knife type. My assumption was that because these crimes involve mostly kitchen knives (apparently) then it was because they occurred in the home (due to a domestic). However others have pointed out these are carried by young people in the streets (which sounds uncomfortable to me!).

The link I found above is about how many physical stores are selling to minors which dispels the notion that it is only internet stores that are the problem.

[Etherealicer]

I had a bit of a look too but couldn't find anything on knife type. My assumption was that because these crimes involve mostly kitchen knives (apparently) then it was because they occurred in the home (due to a domestic). However others have pointed out these are carried by young people in the streets (which sounds uncomfortable to me!).

The link I found above is about how many physical stores are selling to minors which dispels the notion that it is only internet stores that are the problem.

As a general rule of thumb it is:
- Violence against women is mostly domestic
- Violence against (between) men is commonly in public

I also don't see how they carry kitchen knives, seems stupid, but it is probably the largest knives they have access too (especially since most minors have a tight budget).

[Etherealicer]

Back to the original topic/worry.
In Switzerland we have the Swiss ID, which is kinda like a passport but for online use. It is relatively new (spring 2017), so it is not yet widely implemented
In the long run, it has a wide variety of applications, most of them government related. With a verified online identity you could perform many services over the internet that presently, require you to show up in person:
- getting a copy of your criminal records for your new job
- registering with the government after moving
- online voting
But such an online identity could also be used by shops, to ensure you are an adult for purchase of alcohol, weapons or knives.

Of course Switzerland is not alone,
UK has the  "GOV.UK Verify".
And EU has STORK(Secure idenTity acrOss boRders linKed) and eIDAS(electronic IDentification, Authentication and trust Services)

[captain spaulding]

Occasionally, you'll see an interview when someone in the media is interviewing one of the hoodie wearing inbred knuckle dragging smurfwits that wanders round estates up to no good, and they'll invariably pull a kitchen knife out. Ugly looking smurfers they are, all their faces are blurred - should make them easy for the coppers to spot 

One I saw in an interview was carrying a cleaver down his trousers  He said he carried it cos it was scarier. I just hope it was sharp enough to remove him from the gene pool if he started running with it there:whistle:

I do not know if you meant it in this particular way or that phrase means something else across the pond but calling someone a “knuckle dragger” is wildly racist towards blacks. Just figured I should mention that in case you do not know. If I said that here I better be prepared to fight on the spot.

[AimlessWanderer]

Occasionally, you'll see an interview when someone in the media is interviewing one of the hoodie wearing inbred knuckle dragging smurfwits that wanders round estates up to no good, and they'll invariably pull a kitchen knife out. Ugly looking smurfers they are, all their faces are blurred - should make them easy for the coppers to spot 

One I saw in an interview was carrying a cleaver down his trousers  He said he carried it cos it was scarier. I just hope it was sharp enough to remove him from the gene pool if he started running with it there:whistle:

I do not know if you meant it in this particular way or that phrase means something else across the pond but calling someone a “knuckle dragger” is wildly racist towards blacks. Just figured I should mention that in case you do not know. If I said that here I better be prepared to fight on the spot.

Thanks for pointing that out Cap'n  That was certainly not the context I was aiming at, and my apologies to anyone who misinterpretted my intention.

The usage as I am familiar with it and intended it, is unthinking animalistic peoples of all genders, races, ages, religions, and any other demographic you care to mention. It's those around us who seem to act as a more primitive primate, taking whatever they want, preferring violence to words, and generally being the most unthinking and least civilised persons in society. I have encountered them in all colours, shapes and sizes, and have disdain for them all equally. 

[pomsbz]

Occasionally, you'll see an interview when someone in the media is interviewing one of the hoodie wearing inbred knuckle dragging smurfwits that wanders round estates up to no good, and they'll invariably pull a kitchen knife out. Ugly looking smurfers they are, all their faces are blurred - should make them easy for the coppers to spot 

One I saw in an interview was carrying a cleaver down his trousers  He said he carried it cos it was scarier. I just hope it was sharp enough to remove him from the gene pool if he started running with it there:whistle:

I do not know if you meant it in this particular way or that phrase means something else across the pond but calling someone a “knuckle dragger” is wildly racist towards blacks. Just figured I should mention that in case you do not know. If I said that here I better be prepared to fight on the spot.

Really doesn't mean that in the UK, least of all not that I ever encountered.

Then again teaching in an American art school I made a rather bad gaff as an Englishman and teacher telling students who needed help with their end of term projects to 'hook up' with me for assistance. To make it even worse the head of the school happened to be in the room at the time. Cue 20 girls starting to giggle under their desks and thankfully a single English student who loudly protested that she couldn't work out what everyone thought was so funny thereby saving my bacon and resulting in the head quietly mentioning that it was something 'suggestive' in the US and I should avoid using that phrase in future rather than the full blown reprimand it might have been!

[pomsbz]

As far as the original topic, this will just create a market for over 18 year old's to supply knives to youngsters on the estates. If indeed they are buying from knife shops rather than kitchenware stores as seems to be believed. That and every kid has a fake ID to buy alcohol and fags (Brit slang for cigs) or get into a 18 rated movie at the cinema. Heck I used to supply airsoft pistols to my class mates bought with a fake ID when I was 16 (back in the olden days) cause I was a big lad. We were middle class grammer school boys looking to plink at paper targets rather than the lower strata of society specifically looking to do violent crime. I firmly refuse to confirm buying cheap cider for parties using the same fake ID. We were kids being naughty but measures like this already don't work for naughty kids never mind criminals. All it will achieve is, yet again, for the government to pretend like it is doing something for the papers while, yet again, leaving the real problems for another parliament to deal with long after said government is happily retired with their peerages, knighthoods and golden parachute fat cat positions managing charities.

[Mechanickal]

As far as the original topic, this will just create a market for over 18 year old's to supply knives to youngsters on the estates. If indeed they are buying from knife shops rather than kitchenware stores as seems to be believed. That and every kid has a fake ID to buy alcohol and fags (Brit slang for cigs) or get into a 18 rated movie at the cinema. Heck I used to supply airsoft pistols to my class mates bought with a fake ID when I was 16 (back in the olden days) cause I was a big lad. We were middle class grammer school boys looking to plink at paper targets rather than the lower strata of society specifically looking to do violent crime. I firmly refuse to confirm buying cheap cider for parties using the same fake ID. We were kids being naughty but measures like this already don't work for naughty kids never mind criminals. All it will achieve is, yet again, for the government to pretend like it is doing something for the papers while, yet again, leaving the real problems for another parliament to deal with long after said government is happily retired with their peerages, knighthoods and golden parachute fat cat positions managing charities.

You make it sound as if we live in the same country

[captain spaulding]

I figured you did not mean it in that particular way. Just wanted to point it out to possibly save you some trouble one day. I know you would never say racial slurs. 

[AimlessWanderer]

I figured you did not mean it in that particular way. Just wanted to point it out to possibly save you some trouble one day. I know you would never say racial slurs. 

Thank you Cap'n  I appreciate it.

I will certainly try to bear that in mind, but fear I might need reminding of the connotations elsewhere at some point, as it is a phrase I use quite regularly in real life to describe our various lowest common denominators.

 

Language can be such a tricky thing in international settings.

[SteveC]

Occasionally, you'll see an interview when someone in the media is interviewing one of the hoodie wearing inbred knuckle dragging smurfwits that wanders round estates up to no good, and they'll invariably pull a kitchen knife out. Ugly looking smurfers they are, all their faces are blurred - should make them easy for the coppers to spot 

One I saw in an interview was carrying a cleaver down his trousers  He said he carried it cos it was scarier. I just hope it was sharp enough to remove him from the gene pool if he started running with it there:whistle:

I do not know if you meant it in this particular way or that phrase means something else across the pond but calling someone a “knuckle dragger” is wildly racist towards blacks. Just figured I should mention that in case you do not know. If I said that here I better be prepared to fight on the spot.

Never heard the term knuckle dragger used as a racial slur. We used the term when I was a ski bum in Colorado for snowboarders.   


Maybe a California thing  ?