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Worrying times for UK knife retailers

si Offline lister

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Re: Worrying times for UK knife retailers
Reply #30 on: October 13, 2017, 03:49:33 PM
I would imagine knuckle dragger comes from knuckle walking of some of the primates?

Online dictionaries mention it as a slang word for a stupid person or a snowboarder. So not a slang term for a black person but it might be that in some parts of USA the original meaning was forgotten?

I would imagine calling someone an idiot would get you in to a fight in many circumstances...  :D

Ps: So no smurf filter for idiot? oh well...  :D
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 03:51:42 PM by lister »
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ca Offline Syph007

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Re: Worrying times for UK knife retailers
Reply #31 on: October 13, 2017, 03:55:48 PM
When I ship to the UK (about 1/4 of my business) I never label it knife in any way.  Usually camping tool.  Maybe now I'll just put bottle opener. 

I know you cant change human behavior by making more laws, people will do what they want.   Kitchen knives make sense for a cheap weapon.  At a dollar store here you can get a 12 inch made in china butcher knife for $2.  Thats the most cost effective stabbing tool.  Wouldnt an under 18 yr old just take a kitchen knife from home?  Seems weird to ban selling them one when they can use one at home to make dinner. 

In prisons where all weapons are banned, people still sharpen spoons and toothbrushes.  You can ban all sharp things, it doesnt mean a teenager still cant carry a sharp object to stab someone with.

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« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 03:59:01 PM by Syph007 »
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us Offline Aloha

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Re: Worrying times for UK knife retailers
Reply #32 on: October 13, 2017, 04:17:01 PM
When I ship to the UK (about 1/4 of my business) I never label it knife in any way.  Usually camping tool.  Maybe now I'll just put bottle opener. 

I know you cant change human behavior by making more laws, people will do what they want.   Kitchen knives make sense for a cheap weapon.  At a dollar store here you can get a 12 inch made in china butcher knife for $2.  Thats the most cost effective stabbing tool.  Wouldnt an under 18 yr old just take a kitchen knife from home?  Seems weird to ban selling them one when they can use one at home to make dinner. 

In prisons where all weapons are banned, people still sharpen spoons and toothbrushes.  You can ban all sharp things, it doesnt mean a teenager still cant carry a sharp object to stab someone with.

heinnie haynes is a cool site hope they can have an impact politically

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ch Offline Etherealicer

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Re: Worrying times for UK knife retailers
Reply #33 on: October 13, 2017, 04:27:42 PM
When I ship to the UK (about 1/4 of my business) I never label it knife in any way.  Usually camping tool.  Maybe now I'll just put bottle opener. 

I know you cant change human behavior by making more laws, people will do what they want.   Kitchen knives make sense for a cheap weapon.  At a dollar store here you can get a 12 inch made in china butcher knife for $2.  Thats the most cost effective stabbing tool.  Wouldnt an under 18 yr old just take a kitchen knife from home?  Seems weird to ban selling them one when they can use one at home to make dinner. 

In prisons where all weapons are banned, people still sharpen spoons and toothbrushes.  You can ban all sharp things, it doesnt mean a teenager still cant carry a sharp object to stab someone with.

heinnie haynes is a cool site hope they can have an impact politically
Well, there is a suggestion on making saver kitchen knives with the so called R-blade


Not really sure how they want to enforce everybody to give up their kitchen knife and replace it with this. I also presume that carrying a kitchen knife is already outlawed. So, they should rather enforce the existing laws than just create new ones...
It wouldn't be the internet without people complaining.


ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: Worrying times for UK knife retailers
Reply #34 on: October 13, 2017, 04:30:53 PM
When I ship to the UK (about 1/4 of my business) I never label it knife in any way.  Usually camping tool.  Maybe now I'll just put bottle opener. 

I know you cant change human behavior by making more laws, people will do what they want.   Kitchen knives make sense for a cheap weapon.  At a dollar store here you can get a 12 inch made in china butcher knife for $2.  Thats the most cost effective stabbing tool.  Wouldnt an under 18 yr old just take a kitchen knife from home?  Seems weird to ban selling them one when they can use one at home to make dinner. 

In prisons where all weapons are banned, people still sharpen spoons and toothbrushes.  You can ban all sharp things, it doesnt mean a teenager still cant carry a sharp object to stab someone with.

heinnie haynes is a cool site hope they can have an impact politically
Well, there is a suggestion on making saver kitchen knives with the so called R-blade
(Image removed from quote.)

Not really sure how they want to enforce everybody to give up their kitchen knife and replace it with this. I also presume that carrying a kitchen knife is already outlawed. So, they should rather enforce the existing laws than just create new ones...
+1.
UK laws already prohibit carrying locking knives, fixed blades and slippies over 3" without a reason (work, camping, etc).
Seems reasonable to me, they should just enforce it more to stop people carrying kitchen knives.  :D
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si Offline lister

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Re: Worrying times for UK knife retailers
Reply #35 on: October 13, 2017, 04:41:34 PM
I hear less poor people makes for far less crime...

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gb Offline AimlessWanderer

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Re: Worrying times for UK knife retailers
Reply #36 on: October 13, 2017, 04:51:53 PM
When I ship to the UK (about 1/4 of my business) I never label it knife in any way.  Usually camping tool.  Maybe now I'll just put bottle opener. 

I know you cant change human behavior by making more laws, people will do what they want.   Kitchen knives make sense for a cheap weapon.  At a dollar store here you can get a 12 inch made in china butcher knife for $2.  Thats the most cost effective stabbing tool.  Wouldnt an under 18 yr old just take a kitchen knife from home?  Seems weird to ban selling them one when they can use one at home to make dinner. 

In prisons where all weapons are banned, people still sharpen spoons and toothbrushes.  You can ban all sharp things, it doesnt mean a teenager still cant carry a sharp object to stab someone with.

heinnie haynes is a cool site hope they can have an impact politically
Well, there is a suggestion on making saver kitchen knives with the so called R-blade
(Image removed from quote.)

Not really sure how they want to enforce everybody to give up their kitchen knife and replace it with this. I also presume that carrying a kitchen knife is already outlawed. So, they should rather enforce the existing laws than just create new ones...
+1.
UK laws already prohibit carrying locking knives, fixed blades and slippies over 3" without a reason (work, camping, etc).
Seems reasonable to me, they should just enforce it more to stop people carrying kitchen knives.  :D

All this and much more was covered in my letter to my MP. It seems to have struck a chord too, as it has now been forwarded to the Home Secretary herself, who initiated these proposals/consultations. I hope this is the start of a rational and considered dialogue.


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ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: Worrying times for UK knife retailers
Reply #37 on: October 13, 2017, 04:54:37 PM
When I ship to the UK (about 1/4 of my business) I never label it knife in any way.  Usually camping tool.  Maybe now I'll just put bottle opener. 

I know you cant change human behavior by making more laws, people will do what they want.   Kitchen knives make sense for a cheap weapon.  At a dollar store here you can get a 12 inch made in china butcher knife for $2.  Thats the most cost effective stabbing tool.  Wouldnt an under 18 yr old just take a kitchen knife from home?  Seems weird to ban selling them one when they can use one at home to make dinner. 

In prisons where all weapons are banned, people still sharpen spoons and toothbrushes.  You can ban all sharp things, it doesnt mean a teenager still cant carry a sharp object to stab someone with.

heinnie haynes is a cool site hope they can have an impact politically
Well, there is a suggestion on making saver kitchen knives with the so called R-blade
(Image removed from quote.)

Not really sure how they want to enforce everybody to give up their kitchen knife and replace it with this. I also presume that carrying a kitchen knife is already outlawed. So, they should rather enforce the existing laws than just create new ones...
+1.
UK laws already prohibit carrying locking knives, fixed blades and slippies over 3" without a reason (work, camping, etc).
Seems reasonable to me, they should just enforce it more to stop people carrying kitchen knives.  :D

All this and much more was covered in my letter to my MP. It seems to have struck a chord too, as it has now been forwarded to the Home Secretary herself, who initiated these proposals/consultations. I hope this is the start of a rational and considered dialogue.
Wow, the Words of Al are moving in high circles now. :hatsoff: :clap:
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nz Offline Syncop8r

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Re: Worrying times for UK knife retailers
Reply #38 on: October 13, 2017, 11:24:35 PM
inbred knuckle dragging smurfwits

my apologies to anyone who misinterpretted my intention.
The usage as I am familiar with it and intended it, is unthinking animalistic peoples of all genders, races, ages, religions, and any other demographic you care to mention.

Well as a person who identifies as an Australopithecus, I feel deeply offended and discriminated against.


es Offline ThePeacent

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Re: Worrying times for UK knife retailers
Reply #39 on: October 14, 2017, 11:55:48 AM
I for the hell of me can't see yet why would they believe these stupid, expensive and counterproductive measures will stop crime, or reduce it.    :facepalm:
If you're a criminal, by definition you don't care for the law to a certain extent, so change the law and, guess what? You don't even care, because you've already decided to ignore it prior to any change.    :twak:

If I want to stab someone, I'll take the kitchen knife I already have at home, no reason to raise alarms or give any clues by going to a store and buying one.

If I want to stab someone, I won't use a 3" folding knife that might even not get through clothing. I'll use a 8", 12" or 10 inch thin, pointy and sliced piece of cutlery, that costs less than said folding knife, causes more damage and/or intimidation and is no problem to get rid of

If I want to stab someone, and all knives I try to get hold of are banned, I'll take a screwdriver, a chisel, a pencil, an ice pick, a piece of rebar from a construction site, a pair of huge scissors, a broken bottle, a metal rod from a table lamp, or any other suitable implement. It's the mindset and the intention, not the tool

And if I want to stab someone to hurt or kill him, and there's no knife I can get, the I'll use a hammer to crush his bones, a stick to crack his wrists, a rock to bash his brains in or a wooden handle from the backyard's hatchet, a broken piece of papa's cue stick or anything around to bludgeon said person 

Why the hell can't they see tha senseless action this is, and the consequences (or lack of) that it'll have in crime?
All this with the added damage to the industry, problems to responsible knife owners and users and expense of money, time and resources in all this campaign    :think: :think:
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us Offline Dean51

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Re: Worrying times for UK knife retailers
Reply #40 on: October 14, 2017, 02:46:45 PM
I for the hell of me can't see yet why would they believe these stupid, expensive and counterproductive measures will stop crime, or reduce it.    :facepalm:
If you're a criminal, by definition you don't care for the law to a certain extent, so change the law and, guess what? You don't even care, because you've already decided to ignore it prior to any change.    :twak:


They know it will not stop crime but it makes it look like they are doing something to stop crime.
If it looks like they are doing something to stop crime they keep their elected  positions.

The problem lies is society itself, on some level it is not working as it should. If elected officials admit that, it means they have failed at their job of protecting society. Who would re elect a failed  official.

Crime is crime it's that simple. It is not gun crime, knife crime or pointy object crime.
Ban gun crimes and knife crimes goes up, ban knives and pointy or blunt object crimes goes up.
Maybe they could ban crime.

Reducing crime means you have to look at society and that is a very difficult and expensive problem to solve. It also means you have to blame elected officials, people and society itself.


il Offline pomsbz

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Re: Worrying times for UK knife retailers
Reply #41 on: October 16, 2017, 07:56:15 PM
Don't know if anyone's noticed but there is a nasty little additional addendum to this bill. Specifically to change the definition of 'flick knives' to any blade with a 'flicking' mechanism as part of the blade. That means (I'm assuming but wanna bet that I'm wrong?) that fippers, spydie holes, thumb studs, etc will not only be illegal to carry as a result but also illegal to buy/sell or own. Another nasty little addition is making the ownership of anything banned and made illegal by this or further legislation even if bought legally in the past. Add that to the first part and you could be charged for owning a Spyderco UKPK.

There is a survey that gov.uk are running right now on the proposed legislation. Link is here: https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/offensive-and-dangerous-weapons-new-legislation

If you scroll to the bottom there is a link which says 'respond online'. I've done so (I'm a voting UK citizen) and would recommend others do so too.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 07:58:03 PM by pomsbz »
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us Offline ThundahBeagle

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Re: Worrying times for UK knife retailers
Reply #42 on: October 25, 2017, 04:40:09 AM
Banning knives means only outlaws will have knives
Not that I agree, but I can see them forcing online knife sales to be sent to a local dealer, for a percentage, who will be in charge of scrutinizing.
We do have knife crime here but it is less so, because nobody wants to bring a knife to a gunfight. So they bring more guns.
Interesting there are no obvious specific statistics on knife type and number of crimes. Here, the govt has been known to skew stats by including 21 to 25 year-olds as "youths."
Never heard "Knuckle-Dragger" used racially. More that the person behaves as a Neanderthal.
Prisoners have been known to make knives from half-rolled tuna can lids. Leaves a very craggy scar, to be sure.


us Offline ThundahBeagle

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Re: Worrying times for UK knife retailers
Reply #43 on: October 25, 2017, 04:56:54 AM
Not to be too political, just some striking observations...whichever way you feel about the subject, I am seeing the exact same arguments here regarding knife control, as I see here in the states against gun control.

I've lived in states with the least gun control, and some states with some of the most stringent. Interesting where the gun violence happens.

Ban guns and you get knife crime. And "a running  can slit a thousand throats at midnight."

My heart goes out to the folks in the UK. Ban knives and you get scissors crime. Like Peacent said already, and I believe. Soon you will have to ban bricks to the unlicensed. And spoons. And all blackbelts will have to register with the chief of police. Then going forward, one will have to get a license to take karate.

He'll, one could jam the slightly ground edge or corner of a credit card into your neck. What  do we ban next?

Yes, this is politicians wanting to look like the nanny govt has saved the day for the sheeple.

It happens here as well.




mc Offline Gerhard Gerber

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Re: Worrying times for UK knife retailers
Reply #44 on: October 25, 2017, 07:56:01 AM
I've developed a taste for watching the UFC, Darren Till featured in last weekends fights, and during the build-up they mentioned he left the UK for Brazil after getting stabbed for the 2nd or 3rd time.....

Now I assume that a young fighter trying to have a social life would be challenged a lot, I've had to deal with smurfs like that my whole life due to being a bit larger than average, and still I've only been in danger of being stabbed once in my life.

We are a relatively backward country where you can have or carry a knife pretty much anywhere, but stabbings are mostly at informal bars, often as not with a broken bottle, a kitchen knife in a (mostly drunken) marital/relationship brawl........or sometimes as simple as an axe to the head in the rural areas.

Point being, why does it sound to me like the UK has a problem?

To be clear, I don't agree with the measures proposed.


gb Offline Zed

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Re: Worrying times for UK knife retailers
Reply #45 on: October 25, 2017, 09:17:43 AM
Oh people get stabbed in the uk,my step brother was stabbed while standing right next to me, I was threatened with a stanley knife many years ago and had a smashed vodka bottle held to my face,I also was held in a flat for 5hrs with a dagger held to my neck, yes I had a shady past and was around dangerous people ,this also was in London,is there a problem, probably ,is it worse than other countries ,probably not alot different ,stopping under 18's buying knives online will make no difference as they will just use whatever they can get,they need to look at the bigger picture ,like where is this problem stemming from,  :-\
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 09:19:30 AM by Zed »


us Offline ThundahBeagle

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Re: Worrying times for UK knife retailers
Reply #46 on: October 26, 2017, 03:58:33 AM
How in he hell did we ever make it out of the '70's, man? No seatbelt regulations, smoking cigarettes everywhere, I'm like 7 sitting on my father's lap steering the car down the road while my dad sips a beer and waves to the policeman as we go by, and no knife and very little gun regulation. Play dates instead of just letting kids go outside and play. Need a helmet on a bike now...

Not saying that was all good stuff to be doing, but the amount of regulations coming down the pike makes me wonder what kind of fortitude our offspring and theirs, will have, what with always looking to and expecting the government to make rules and laws against this or promoting safety of that.

There was a story in the news once around here. A lady had a stay-away order issued against her ex husband. After he was issued the order, he drove up her driveway. She went up to meet him, holding the paper order in front of herself as if to ward him off with it. He shot her right through the court order, and into her head, killing her while her daughter was on the phone calling the police, watching the whole thing unfold.

Fat lot of good the innocent get for trying to take shelter behind government paper sometimes.


ch Offline Etherealicer

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Re: Worrying times for UK knife retailers
Reply #47 on: October 26, 2017, 09:14:39 AM
How in he hell did we ever make it out of the '70's, man? No seatbelt regulations, smoking cigarettes everywhere, I'm like 7 sitting on my father's lap steering the car down the road while my dad sips a beer and waves to the policeman as we go by, and no knife and very little gun regulation. Play dates instead of just letting kids go outside and play. Need a helmet on a bike now...
In 1970 the number of cars was 200 mio worldwide. Today, the US alone has more. Add to that that we also drive more (we don't stay at home in the evenings anymore and are running around all the time)...

Simply put, more breeds more problems.

That said, modern communication also makes us more aware of the problems. I mean in 1970 you would not have heard or though about violent crimes in another country.
It wouldn't be the internet without people complaining.


 

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