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Leatherman & Politics

us Offline NeitherExtreme

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Leatherman & Politics
on: October 28, 2008, 10:07:57 PM
Hi all.

This thread is an attempt to understand what's behind some strong comments I've seen (on other forums) claiming that Leatherman is anti-gun and pro-democratic party... I know that we try to steer clear of politics here, so I ran this thread by Def first, and he agreed that this could be a worthwhile topic. That said, I'm hoping that this thread can just be a quick way to clear the air about the facts, and not so much a discussion on how we feel about them, or how they affect our buying preferences. Different people have different political views, and we're not going to change that here. So... if this veers too far off track, I'd be happy to have one of the mods shut it down if they see fit.

Thanks for bearing with me. :)

So anyhow, my real questions are:
1) Where did these ideas come from?
2) Do these views reflect Tim, the company, or both?

So far, the only thing I've found has been this article:
Top Business Leaders from the Outdoor Industry Endorse Kerry-Edwards; The Health of the Great American Outdoors is at Stake
As far as I can tell, this is a (polite) group endorsement of John Kerry based on environmental concerns. It is signed, along with quite a few other business leaders, by Tim Leatherman (the man, not the company).

So what else is there?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 10:11:02 PM by NeitherExtreme »


us Offline Gadget Guy

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #1 on: October 28, 2008, 10:17:07 PM
Sorry, but who cares! If I let politics define every purchase I made I would never buy anything. I'm don't care what Leatherman's personal view is on anything. They make a great product and that's why I buy it. I especially hate it when forums boycott companies because of their views. Believe me, every single company that sells a product will piss someone off! Buy the stuff for what it is and forget the politics!

Now for how I really feel!  :D  LOL!!!!
Sometimes change is a good thing, other times not so much!


us Offline NutSAK

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #2 on: October 28, 2008, 10:17:54 PM
I've never heard of it before this mention.  It doesn't surprise me at all that an outdoors-oriented person like Tim Leatherman might be concerned about the environment.  I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I think Americans tend to want to group people as democratic or republican, like it's black and white, when it's very rarely accurate to do so.

Take me for instance.  I'm all over the place when it comes to issues--right wing on many issues and left wing on many others.
- Terry


us Offline NeitherExtreme

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #3 on: October 28, 2008, 10:24:09 PM
Yeah, I'm personally not worried about who supports what... My real motive here was so that I can have an informed opinion/response for when I run into folks who are making such comments about Leatherman. Example: If LM is strongly anti-gun, then it's fine for someone to say they are. If, on the other hand, that's just an exaggeration or rumor, then I think it ought to be corrected. So really I'm just fact finding here. :) And where better to ask about a MT company than here? :tu:


ca Offline jzmtl

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #4 on: October 28, 2008, 10:27:20 PM
Never heard of it before either.


us Offline NeitherExtreme

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #5 on: October 28, 2008, 10:34:52 PM
Never heard of it before either.
Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen it pop up here. :) I think I've seen it on three other forums though, including one thread currently going on.


us Offline Gadget Guy

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #6 on: October 28, 2008, 10:35:34 PM
I've never heard of it before this mention.  It doesn't surprise me at all that an outdoors-oriented person like Tim Leatherman might be concerned about the environment.  I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I think Americans tend to want to group people as democratic or republican, like it's black and white, when it's very rarely accurate to do so.

Take me for instance.  I'm all over the place when it comes to issues--right wing on many issues and left wing on many others.

Great post! I agree with you 100%!
Sometimes change is a good thing, other times not so much!


Offline appletree_man

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #7 on: October 28, 2008, 10:38:55 PM
No offence to you guys but I see this all the time on American forums when folk are talking about anyone, movie stars, singers, etc, etc, "is he a con or lib" "Democrat or Republican".
It's a bit odd to UK eyes, just not the questions anyone asks or cares about when it comes to (most) celebs or companies.
T


us Offline NeitherExtreme

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #8 on: October 28, 2008, 10:42:52 PM
No offence to you guys but I see this all the time on American forums when folk are talking about anyone, movie stars, singers, etc, etc, "is he a con or lib" "Democrat or Republican".
It's a bit odd to UK eyes, just not the questions anyone asks or cares about when it comes to (most) celebs or companies.
No offense taken. :)


us Offline Gadget Guy

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #9 on: October 28, 2008, 10:43:51 PM
No offence to you guys but I see this all the time on American forums when folk are talking about anyone, movie stars, singers, etc, etc, "is he a con or lib" "Democrat or Republican".
It's a bit odd to UK eyes, just not the questions anyone asks or cares about when it comes to (most) celebs or companies.

Maybe America needs a "On the fence" party.  :D  Maybe I need to move to the UK?  :ahhh
Sometimes change is a good thing, other times not so much!


us Offline BIG-TARGET

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #10 on: October 28, 2008, 10:44:12 PM
If politics worried me,I woulodn't be going to WholeFoods(marlton NJ) for my organic food.  The clientelle there are so liberal, they make Che Guevera look like a staunch republican :think:
"Some rise by sin, and some by virtue fall;
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 And some condemned for a fault alone." -William Shakespeare, King Lear (1608), Act IV, scene 6, line 169


england Offline Benner

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #11 on: October 28, 2008, 10:44:52 PM
No offence to you guys but I see this all the time on American forums when folk are talking about anyone, movie stars, singers, etc, etc, "is he a con or lib" "Democrat or Republican".
It's a bit odd to UK eyes, just not the questions anyone asks or cares about when it comes to (most) celebs or companies.

Maybe America needs a "On the fence" party.  :D  Maybe I need to move to the UK?  :ahhh

Then you could meet me!!  :D
I'm back!!


Offline appletree_man

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #12 on: October 28, 2008, 11:05:28 PM
No offence to you guys but I see this all the time on American forums when folk are talking about anyone, movie stars, singers, etc, etc, "is he a con or lib" "Democrat or Republican".
It's a bit odd to UK eyes, just not the questions anyone asks or cares about when it comes to (most) celebs or companies.

Maybe America needs a "On the fence" party.  :D  Maybe I need to move to the UK?  :ahhh
Lot of politics and wrangling here, you won't escape i'm afraid :D
I'm not on the fence politics wise, fair to say most people here can have fairly strong views, but I'm just not bothered about who votes for whom when it comes to folk in the public eye.
I think it's more of a cultural thing, in the USA there's more of a tradition of companies and high profile figures declaring their political support.
It does happen here but not to the same extent.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 11:09:07 PM by appletree_man »
T


spam Offline zepla

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #13 on: October 28, 2008, 11:32:25 PM
Live and let live I say. Who cares what somebody else's opinion is. Just worry about your own. If a person or company says this or that, well everybody has a right on a opinion and i don't hold it against them. I see some of the american election circus over here (europe that is) and as mentioned before it seems so black and white. In real life nothing is black and white. The most fun I have when presidential candidates are mentioning god all the time. And then tell everybody islam is bad because it is so radical end extreme. I do not practice any religion at all (i believe in myself  :D) but when I look at some policians on tv, they sound just as extreme to me as the ones they are complaining about, i just don't get that  :think:

Make love not war, I say  :drink: And free  :multi: for everyone!  But I'm from the Netherland, so I'm relax by nature  ;)

So, that should get this tread going  :D


Offline Anthony

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #14 on: October 29, 2008, 12:30:37 AM
I'm curious as to which candidate Tim L. is supporting...McCain, Obama, or neither?


In any case, I buy and use Leatherman tools since I have confidence in them and I'm proud to support an AMERICAN company that (as far as I know) does 99% of their work here in America. 

There is a fraction of Americans who share "my politics", so I can't pick and choose who I support with my money based on their politics.
[


us Offline NutSAK

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #15 on: October 29, 2008, 12:34:19 AM
In any case, I buy and use Leatherman tools since I have confidence in them and I'm proud to support an AMERICAN company that (as far as I know) does 99% of their work here in America. 

There is a fraction of Americans who share "my politics", so I can't pick and choose who I support with my money based on their politics.

I'm with you!  :cheers:
- Terry


Offline Biru

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #16 on: October 29, 2008, 12:51:58 AM
I've seen this argument on other gun and knife forums. I believe it started when Bush and Gore were contesting during the last US presidential election. From what I gather Leatherman supported Gore or at least was not quite a Bush man. Frankly, I care more for how Mr. L makes tools than who he likes in the election. At least my Wave and Supertool are worth my trust, unlike the many politicians I've seen (my opinion only).

Bill.



us Offline J-sews

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #17 on: October 29, 2008, 03:40:49 AM
Luke I have seen those comments made about Tim Leatherman on other forums, but I've never seen any detail to back up the claims. My guess is it's all just a mob-mentality rumor that got blown out of proportion. :(



And I also subscribe to the "who gives a damn anyway" position stated previously. :)
In order to be certain of having the right tool for every job.........one must first acquire a lot of tools


Offline american lockpicker

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #18 on: October 29, 2008, 03:46:20 AM
In any case, I buy and use Leatherman tools since I have confidence in them and I'm proud to support an AMERICAN company that (as far as I know) does 99% of their work here in America. 

There is a fraction of Americans who share "my politics", so I can't pick and choose who I support with my money based on their politics.

I'm with you!  :cheers:


Me too.
(


us Offline WhichDawg

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #19 on: October 29, 2008, 04:41:17 AM


ph Offline duckman1975

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #20 on: October 29, 2008, 05:06:02 AM
I've seen this argument on other gun and knife forums. I believe it started when Bush and Gore were contesting during the last US presidential election. From what I gather Leatherman supported Gore or at least was not quite a Bush man. Frankly, I care more for how Mr. L makes tools than who he likes in the election. At least my Wave and Supertool are worth my trust, unlike the many politicians I've seen (my opinion only).

Bill.


+1 trust the tool not the man :D
Multitools are the best thing that happened to mankind since the invention of the wheel!


us Offline Smitty44

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #21 on: October 29, 2008, 05:35:57 AM
The Kerry-Edwards thing took place in 2004,and I'm not even sure if that was Tim,or Senator Leatherman??? http://politicsrocks.blogspot.com/2007/05/rep-kristopher-krissy-crawford-vs-sen.html
And I don't care about politic's anyway,I am just happy that Tim and his Co. make quality tools,and has a good backup guarantee.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 05:42:04 AM by Smitty44 »


us Offline prime77

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #22 on: October 29, 2008, 07:04:33 AM
I have heard this on other forums and know of one thread going on where it's being discussed and seems that allot of guys jump on one rumor and run with it not even knowing if it's true of not. In the same thread it's mentioned that LMs are made in China, and Gerbers are all made in the USA. ::) It's a shame really because there missing out on a great product by stating that they will never buy LMs. As long as Leatherman continues make quality products they have my business.
"


ph Offline duckman1975

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #23 on: October 29, 2008, 10:18:05 AM
Wish LM would not let their products be made in China, we have way too much made in China products already.......
Lets spread the wealth!
Multitools are the best thing that happened to mankind since the invention of the wheel!


england Offline Benner

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #24 on: October 29, 2008, 12:58:48 PM
Wish LM would not let their products be made in China, we have way too much made in China products already.......
Lets spread the wealth!

Not sure if you are joking there or not, but they don't.
I'm back!!


Offline Rodion

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #25 on: October 29, 2008, 01:08:08 PM
Local retailers think Leatherman is made in China. I guess it's like that Muslim thing...


In any case, I would think Leatherman would be supportive of Ron Paul's ideas.  ;)
W


Offline Styerman

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #26 on: October 29, 2008, 01:09:20 PM
I have no reason to believe he has publically been anti gun. His private convictions are just that.

I believe he took a pro environental , and anti Bush stance. Some others ha joined with were anti gun. Since young mr. Bush has screwed things up to a fairthewell , can't say I blame him. BTW Im pro gun , just not struck on how he nearly doubled the US National dept , and got into a Vietnam type scenario in the middle east.

Chris


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #27 on: October 29, 2008, 01:58:04 PM
A quick kata of Google Fu reveals a couple of links, which may or may not be reliable or interesting:

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/040914/145916_1.html

http://www.climbers4kerry.com/Files/Kerry-Edwards%20Endorsement%20Letter.htm

Unfortunately freedom of choice is a two way street.  Tim Leatherman, like any other American has the right to choose, and to support that choice with all the resources at his disposal.  It also means that many people have the right to choose NOT to buy a Leatherman product as a result.

Like anything else, I think that by the time this mess gets doled out to the public the media has over simplified it, then any semblance of reality is lost amongst all the folks retelling the story.  I can't speak for Mr Leatherman's political stances, but I will say that I think all those people who choose to boycott Leatherman products as a result (and I am glad to see that folks here are above that!) are really missing out on some really good stuff.

Interestingly enough, while reading some other forums in order to post these links, I ran across a post that said not to buy Leatherman because Leatherman is anti gun, and you should instead buy Gerber, because Gerber is owned by Fiskars and is Norwegian.  Not to knock Gerber at all, but it seems amusing to me that someone would endorse a Chinese made multitool over an American made on to promote the ideas of personal freedom!  :D

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


Offline SteveRacer

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #28 on: October 29, 2008, 02:25:30 PM
Arrrrgh.  Who cares?  If you do, you may deserve massive pokey sticks.   :pok:

I meet people all the time upset with the current administration.  That would not buy Leatherman products if they felt Tim was too This or too That.  That the "Founding Fathers" wanted the words "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance.  These folks never tire about telling YOU how to live YOUR life.  And you can find them every day, every hour, every minute ....   where?   WALMART !    :o

I'm a real patriot, quite retentive, and diagnosed OCD.  Once, I decided that I would completely purge my life of anything non-American, and any thoughts other than jingnostic patriotism and vitriolic xenophobia.   :salute:

I found myself sitting alone naked in my back yard, without clothes, vehicles, radios, televisions, appliances, friends, or food.  I had a case of Yeungling and a fifth of Jack Daniels.  About six hours later I ran out of whisky and had to rethink my political alignment.   :bnghd:

While I'd love to only "Buy American" that simply isn't practical for most of us [Americans].  When I do "buy American"   (and I consider Leatherman to be American innovation, design, and product - even if castings or stampings are done somewhere else!)  I can celebrate the fact that a good product is a good product, period, and buying "American" means embracing the very freedom my country represents.

I own a Mac 90 (Chinese AK-47 clone) and I think it's a pretty good rifle in a lot of ways... that doesn't make me a communist!   And I doubt the folks that stamped out the parts or assembled the gun are anywhere similar in their political views. 

My relationship with a product begins and ends with the quality and fitness of purpose.  Did I get what was paid for? Advertised?  Warranteed?  If people want to boycott Leatherman products based on some very sketchy leftist accusations about Tim, so be it.  It will drive down the prices for the rest of us that don't care and can recognise good MTs.

I just read that Chris Reeve is a close buddy with Hugo Chavez.  Anyone care to send me their wicked, tainted, traitor Sebenzas for proper disposal ??   ;)

Look, don't get me wrong.  It is TOTALLY your freedom to boycott any American Citizen's product if you don't like his political views, or even his race, creed, religion, or hair color.   And it's my freedom to think you're a silly poopy-head for doing so.   :ahhh


-steve
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 02:40:30 PM by SteveRacer »
[


Offline american lockpicker

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Re: Leatherman & Politics
Reply #29 on: October 29, 2008, 03:43:46 PM
Wish LM would not let their products be made in China, we have way too much made in China products already.......
Lets spread the wealth!


I agree 100%. What leatherman items are made in China? I know there hats are and I heard that there flashlights are.
(


 

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