UK police to carry handheld fingerprint scanner

[665ae]

hypothetical situation: lets say someone in your neighbourhood is a child molester... now the cops offer two solutions, everyone voluntarily gives DNA to prove they are not the person, and thus narrows down the search...  or two, they continue searching blindly, hoping that next time the molester rapes a child, they catch the person in the act (the chances of that are???)

So you'd basically say you refuse to have your DNA on file because you're innocent, thus making you technically a suspect?

That sounds like real fuzzy logic to me... but I've had a few beers...

Yes.  I would refuse to have my DNA on file because I'm innocent.  As would the child molester, who'd refuse to give up his DNA so he wouldn't get caught.  If he'd been caught before, and convicted, and had his DNA taken due to a conviction, then the idiots running the system never should have let him back out on the street in the first damn place.  It he knows that he's going to rape a kid, then he would know not to submit to any voluntary DNA collection.  So in the end, a lot of innocent people would be forced to submit to a DNA test that isn't going to catch the criminal in the first place...

Kinda sounds like gun registration/bans.  Criminals don't register firearms, and they sure as hell don't care about bans... So in the end, it's innocent people that suffer.

[Grant Lamontagne]

The record system isn't to blame, it's the government that misused the info.  I'm all for a record system, and against most current governmental systems.  While I am not necessarily an anarchist, I personally feel that "modern" governments are all at best 18th century systems that are clinging to power in a world they can't possibly exist in, which is why they are taking more and more liberties away.  It's them grasping at straws, but at some point we have to find something else that works, and flush away the old band aids that were piled on top of each other.

And, it's not a matter of what party you belong to or support- those are ways of pitting the populace against eachother when really they are little more than colors, and it's the system itself that's flawed.

We are in a second Renaissance period, the technological revolution and the dinosaurs aren't going to go without a fight.  That's why things are abused, but there's nothing wrong with record keeping on it's own.  In a hundred years when our petty societal worries are over, the next, better generation will appreciate that we kept accurate records, as it will allow them to function better.

Def

[665ae]

The record system isn't to blame, it's the government that misused the info.  I'm all for a record system, and against most current governmental systems.  While I am not necessarily an anarchist, I personally feel that "modern" governments are all at best 18th century systems that are clinging to power in a world they can't possibly exist in, which is why they are taking more and more liberties away.  It's them grasping at straws, but at some point we have to find something else that works, and flush away the old band aids that were piled on top of each other.

And, it's not a matter of what party you belong to or support- those are ways of pitting the populace against eachother when really they are little more than colors, and it's the system itself that's flawed.

We are in a second Renaissance period, the technological revolution and the dinosaurs aren't going to go without a fight.  That's why things are abused, but there's nothing wrong with record keeping on it's own.  In a hundred years when our petty societal worries are over, the next, better generation will appreciate that we kept accurate records, as it will allow them to function better.

Def

Sure, that all sounds good... except taking a shot at my "petty" societal worries   The only thing that's going to change the system is a major event, and more than likely it's going to take an organized revolt.  So in a 100 years when little kids are in their history class reading about what happened in our time, they can see that the reason everything went to hell "back then" is because of a blatant disregard for a persons "sovereignty."   So, what are we to do?  Do we just go along with whatever "they" want because we're all "innocent" and have nothing to worry about?  Or do we stand up for our personal "unalienable" rights, that every single person has regardless of what country/government they are part of, and refuse to let more of them be taken away?

[Grant Lamontagne]

If you are talking a coup, I'm in!   

Governments don't just fall because they are overthrown.  Sometimes folks just quietly outgrow them and move on.  Evolution doesn't have to be bloody, it's just the memorable ones that are!

At some point there will be a small enough voter turnout and a large enough appeals process that the government will be completely de-fanged.  When I vote (and I rarely do) I write in "NO CONFIDENCE" and submit it.  Yeah, I'm throwing away my vote, but imagine if there were more "NO CONFIDENCE" votes in the ballot box than anything else?  Something would have to change then, wouldn't it?

It's already starting- maybe not with NO CONFIDENCE ballots, but you can see it in things like a greater v ote count for American Idol than American President.

Def

[Anthony]

Copies of my fingerprints were taken invoulentarily from me when I was in the first grade.  I remember it was the first time I ever saw a "cop" in person.  There was a table set up in the school hallway with the ink pads and paperwork for each student.  Looking back I assume it was sold to parents as a security measure if a child got lost/kidnapped/found dead...and I'm sure it would come in quite handy for those purposes.  But I'd like to know where my "file" is now and if it was ever put into the digital system.

I don't like ANY kind of this record keeping on citizens.  The less personal information the governmant has the better.  The government is a variable/an X factor.

But why?

The government can change and use that info differently.  I woulden't walk up to any joe off the street and tell him how much money I make, what guns I may own, what kind of car I drive, how much I owe for a mortgage, my social security number, my bank account numbers, etc...why tell the government?

[Grant Lamontagne]

Why not?  They know already.

Def

[Anthony]

Why not?  They know already.

Def

I know I know...I'm just sick of voluenteering all kinds of info whenever they ask.