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Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out? 1929

Hero Member Posts: 842 There's a SAK for that!
Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« on: October 26, 2017, 04:08:27 PM »
As the title says, I'm writing an article about the magnifying lens.
At first glance there appear to be two versions of this tool; grey and transparent. Vic fanatics will know there are three; a high and a low magnification transparent version.

I believe there are at least four versions of this tool.

I'm trying to put all the differences together. And I'm missing some information. I would really like to know the diameter of the lens in your SAK. Can you guys help me out?

These are the four types I believe exist:

Type 1: (1973) Grey plastic with a 90 edge lens mount.
Glass lens. 8x Magnification. Lens diameter ?mm.

Type 2: (1985-1990) Grey plastic with a beveled lens mount.
Glass lens. 8x Magnification. Lens diameter ? mm (larger than the previous one?).

Type 3: (2004-2007) Transparent plastic.
Plastic lens. 5x magnification. Lens diameter ? mm.

Type 4: (2012-) Transparent plastic.
Glass lens. 6x magnification. Lens diameter ? mm.

Well, you might have guessed I am very curious if you can measure the diameter of the lens for me.
I need the distance from the start of the lens at the rim of the mount (largest visible lens diameter).


Lens diameter

I'd be over the moon if you guys can help me out. I'd don't have all the variations yet and I'd have a hard time selling it to my girlfriend if I have to buy them all now.  :facepalm:

My SAK collection and more: http://pocketknives.home.blog
Sr. Member Posts: 491
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2017, 04:12:25 PM »
I think you have to talk with Frater Martin.
This guy already made a great investigation regarding evolution of magnifying glasses.
Some links to his posts (on Russian forum):
https://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/391/1905027-m45257713.html
https://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/391/1905027-m45259015.html
https://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/391/1905027-820.html


Hope, it will help ;)
Admin Team Zombie Apprentice Posts: 19,887 mmmmm SAKrelicious
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2017, 04:14:05 PM »
I reckon 14mm in the grey bevelled holder and 18mm in the glass lensed clear plastic version.  :salute:

Hope some others will be able to corroberate or amend soon.  :tu:

Looking forward to the article  :cheers:

'Use the force Harry' - Gandalf

'Derail a thread and we'll come at you like a block of cheese'. Captain Mags and Sergeant Fuzzbucket of the Anti Derai.... mmmmmmm cheese
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,816
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2017, 04:25:00 PM »
I reckon 14mm in the grey bevelled holder and 18mm in the glass lensed clear plastic version:salute:

Hope some others will be able to corroberate or amend soon.  :tu:

Looking forward to the article  :cheers:

Seconded, bang on 18mm on the clear one.

Hero Member Posts: 842 There's a SAK for that!
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2017, 04:45:09 PM »
I think you have to talk with Frater Martin.
This guy already made a great investigation regarding evolution of magnifying glasses.

Well, I haven't talked to the man, but the posts he made are very usefull!
To bad my Russian is a bit rustyski, but I'll have Google help me a hand.

I don't see the diameter of what I believe is 'type 1' but I have one of those in my Champion. I'll measure it when I get home.

Thanks guys!

My SAK collection and more: http://pocketknives.home.blog
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,951
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2017, 05:07:39 PM »
I don’t have versions 1 and 4... I will try to measure later...

I think version 4 will be the same diameter as version 3


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Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,951
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2017, 05:17:39 PM »
Mags is spot on... :cheers:


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Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,254 I'm blue!
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2017, 06:44:01 PM »
I have both type 1 and type 2 grey magnifiers (Champion, straight and SwissChamp, beveled). Both 14mm.

Edit: in another thread I read that yours have different sizes. Mine are the same. So there would be three types of grey magnifier.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 07:33:05 PM by Ronald Schröder »

Hero Member Posts: 552
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2017, 07:27:28 PM »
Good point. :tu:

When I get back home I'll measure mines.... ...Magnifiers.

Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,128
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2017, 07:50:42 PM »
 :popcorn:

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,596 Firm believer of Sturgeon's Law
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2017, 09:24:53 PM »
the two grey ones are the two in the last post from this thread, right?

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,32097.120.html

what's the third mag glass in grey casing that you're talking about? Any pics?  :think:

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SAKs: Bantam, Executive, Ambassador, Minichamp, Classic Alox, Champion, Farmer, Explorer, Swisschamp, Golf Tool, Wenger Champ, EVO 52, Pocket Tool Chest
Sr. Member Posts: 426
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2017, 10:17:10 PM »
This is a new Swiss Champ




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No Life Club Posts: 1,041
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2017, 02:27:00 AM »
I have both type 1 and type 2 grey magnifiers (Champion, straight and SwissChamp, beveled). Both 14mm.

Edit: in another thread I read that yours have different sizes. Mine are the same. So there would be three types of grey magnifier.

+1

I have both 70's-early 80's Type 1 and 90's-early 00's Type 2. All four lenses measure 14mm.

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they go."    -Will Rogers
Jr. Member Posts: 92
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2017, 12:23:18 PM »
These are the four types I believe exist:
Type 1: (1973) Grey plastic with a 90 edge lens mount.
...
Type 2: (1985-1990) Grey plastic with a beveled lens mount.
...
Type 3: (2004-2007) Transparent plastic.
...
Type 4: (2012-) Transparent plastic.
...

Excuse me. Are you pretty sure in the years of lens type changing? Because well-known document "Repair Instruction for the magnifier layer" from Victorinox said that years of changing were different. So, according to it Types 1-2 were produced in 1973-2004, Type 3 was introduced in 2004 and Type 4 changed it in 2012.
And here I put two photos of Type 1 and Type 2 mag. glass. It is difficult to find them on Internet in good resolution and in both sides. I am continuing my investigation about Type 1 / Type 2 changing year, so I am quite interested in this topic.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 01:29:03 PM by Frater_Martin »

-Sorry my bed Inglish :) -
Hero Member Posts: 842 There's a SAK for that!
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2017, 12:45:54 PM »
Excuse me. Are you pretty sure in the years of lens type changing? Because well-known document "Repair Instruction for the magnifier layer" from Victorinox said that years of changing were different. So, according to it Types 1-2 were produced in 1973-2004, Type 3 was introduced in 2004 and Type 4 changed it in 2012.
And here I put two photos of Type 1 and Type 2 mag. glass. It is difficult to find then on Internet in good resolution and in both sides. I am continuing my investigation about Type 1 / Type 2 changing year, so I am quite interested in this topic.

No, I'm not I'm afraid. When I got my Champion I noticed that there was a difference with my dads SwissChamp.
I've done some research and suspect the change to be between 1985 and 1990. I haven't seen any Type1 lenses on SAKs >1990 and haven't seen any Type2 on SAKs <1985.
I have a suspicion that the change is at the same time as the hole in the awl 1987. But I am not 100% certain.

I have an early Explorer in the mail now. It has a fluted screwdriver and no hole in the awl. I can't make out on the sellers image, but if my suspicions are correct this has to be a type1 magnifier. I'll have to wait a few more days...

Is there a link to the "Repair Instruction for the magnifier layer" document? I'd be very interesting in reading it.
I loved the illustrations you provided via the Russian forum by the way. A fellow MTO member shared the links earlier.

Also, thanks for all you responses. It seems there are only two lens diameters available: 14 mm and 18 mm.
I've measured my Type 1 which is also 14 mm.


(Champion) Typ 1 magnifier: 14mm

My SAK collection and more: http://pocketknives.home.blog
Jr. Member Posts: 92
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2017, 01:09:32 PM »
Is there a link to the "Repair Instruction for the magnifier layer" document? I'd be very interesting in reading it.
It is a .pdf document

-Sorry my bed Inglish :) -
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,508 motionless wheel, nothing is real
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2017, 02:18:44 PM »
Looks like the change in the old style happened with the introduction of the SwissChamp, all 3 of my 1st gen. (1985/6) SC have the beveled frame. Took shots of my only old-old style Champion mag glass, front and back also, not sure the year, but def. pre-'85. The actual lenses appear to be the same on all.

Good info! I thought all the gray magnifiers were the same.  :tu:

 :popcorn:
Hero Member Posts: 842 There's a SAK for that!
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2017, 02:58:50 PM »
Looks like the change in the old style happened with the introduction of the SwissChamp, all 3 of my 1st gen. (1985/6) SC have the beveled frame. Took shots of my only old-old style Champion mag glass, front and back also, not sure the year, but def. pre-'85. The actual lenses appear to be the same on all.

Good info! I thought all the gray magnifiers were the same.  :tu:

 :popcorn:
If this is true then there can't be any SAKs out there with a Type1 magnifier and an awl with hole... Can´t wait for my Explorer to arrive and see!

Reading the document Frater_Martin provided (thanks!) I think it's confusing to speak of a type 1-4 magnifying lens. Perhaps this makes more sense: Gen1a, Gen1b, Gen 2 and Gen 3.
This also leaves room to count on if more variations are discovered. I'm going to change this is my notes.

The difference in Gen1a and Gen2b has to be very subtle as the part numbers are the same :A.5630 magnifier (?) My guess is they just changed supplier or changed the production process.

Seeing the part numbers I am very curious if there is a complete parts list out there... I did a quick google search and could not find anything. I am at work however and can´t start an extensive search because I actually have to do some work  :facepalm:

My SAK collection and more: http://pocketknives.home.blog
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,508 motionless wheel, nothing is real
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2017, 03:16:50 PM »
There are many odd variations in transitional years, so I'm sure it would be possible to have an early mag glass with a sewing awl?  :tu:
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 5,508 motionless wheel, nothing is real
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2017, 03:37:19 PM »
My Explorer is a transitional model, it has the old gray frame, but also a thinner tang (2004-5), which is appx. the same year they dropped the crossbow stamp, so some odd factory tool combinations do exist. Makes exact dating difficult sometimes.  ???
Hero Member Posts: 842 There's a SAK for that!
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2017, 03:50:11 PM »
My Explorer is a transitional model, it has the old gray frame, but also a thinner tang (2004-5), which is appx. the same year they dropped the crossbow stamp, so some odd factory tool combinations do exist. Makes exact dating difficult sometimes.  ???

Your Explorer is really rocking those yellow scales!
Judging from your image it would be a Gen1b magnifying lens.
Going by the date (2004) is probably is one of the last batches with the Gen1b. You lucky man! You could have had a Gen2 if you bought it a little later!

My SAK collection and more: http://pocketknives.home.blog
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,128
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2017, 05:14:48 PM »
There are many odd variations in transitional years, so I'm sure it would be possible to have an early mag glass with a sewing awl?  :tu:

For sure... I've got what I believe to be a 70's otw..  I'll report back with my mags soon.

“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” - Mark Twain
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 17,735 Oxygen and magnesium toghether?! OMg!
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2017, 05:21:02 PM »
Take a look at SAKWiki. You have some info on this (and other subjects). You can also add some new info you manage to gather, to improve it.

 :pok: :tu:

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Jr. Member Posts: 92
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2017, 10:55:34 AM »
  Hi again. Below there are two compilations combined from two Victorinox Champions as a result of special investigation. First one was made in 1983-1985, second one was made in 1986. Evidences are on the photos. These knifes are not mine, I have collected photos of them on the Internet (by the way this collection is a basis of my comparative analysis. Usually I do not have enough money/opportunities to buy every knife I wish, so I have to collect large galleries. At least they are free :) ).
  So as we can see, on the knife made in 1983-1985 there is a lens Type 1 (Gen1a) and the knife made in 1986 there is a lens Type 2 (Gen1b). As I could find, all knifes were made before 1985(86) have Gen1a lenses (with one-side bevels) and all knifes were made after 1986 have Gen1b lenses (with both-side bevels on it). And I suppose that year of 1986 become a border between Gen1a and Gen1b lenses productions.
  Any other ideas or evidences are welcomed to show here in this thread.

  Of course we have to remember about year divergences/shifts related to production process. I mean the situations when old tool/tools were assembled in a knife together with modern ones for several years.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 01:03:17 PM by Frater_Martin »

-Sorry my bed Inglish :) -
Hero Member Posts: 552
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2017, 05:48:19 PM »
Good point. :tu:

When I get back home I'll measure mines.... ...Magnifiers.

:popcorn:

You guys... This is getting interesting...

I called to review all my knives with magnifiers.



I'm surprised that I have only 2 translucent magnifiers. Swisschamp and Explorer.

The figures are clear.
14mm for old ones and 18mm for the translucent ones.

Between all the grey ones it has turned out to be only one different.
It's a black champion which I date 1983-1984 by its 4turns fluted corkscrew, no hole in the awl, no pen and no 90° lock for the bottle opener.



I don't know I the difference is clearly visible in the pic.

I have questions about the new mags.
How do you distinguish between them?
How do you know their mag power (5x/6x)?

Mines to my eyes seems to be the same variation.
Explorer:


Swisschamp:


What do you think are both the same variation??

Cheers!!
Global Moderator Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 8,951
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2017, 05:52:32 PM »
Good point. :tu:

When I get back home I'll measure mines.... ...Magnifiers.

:popcorn:

You guys... This is getting interesting...

I called to review all my knives with magnifiers.

(Image removed from quote.)

I'm surprised that I have only 2 translucent magnifiers. Swisschamp and Explorer.

The figures are clear.
14mm for old ones and 18mm for the translucent ones.

Between all the grey ones it has turned out to be only one different.
It's a black champion which I date 1983-1984 by its 4turns fluted corkscrew, no hole in the awl, no pen and no 90° lock for the bottle opener.

(Image removed from quote.)

I don't know I the difference is clearly visible in the pic.

I have questions about the new mags.
How do you distinguish between them?
How do you know their mag power (5x/6x)?

Mines to my eyes seems to be the same variation.
Explorer:
(Image removed from quote.)

Swisschamp:
(Image removed from quote.)

What do you think are both the same variation??

Cheers!!
I was told that the latest variation is made of glass and can be rotated within the frame... not as fixed as the previous version... maybe someone can confirm this...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hero Member Posts: 552
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2017, 06:03:25 PM »

I was told that the latest variation is made of glass and can be rotated within the frame... not as fixed as the previous version... maybe someone can confirm this...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
[/quote]

Thanks Jaya... I'll try it.
Hero Member Posts: 552
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2017, 06:14:53 PM »
What a surprise!!!
Not only turns inside the frame.
Did anyone else removed the glass before???

Jr. Member Posts: 92
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2017, 06:55:40 PM »
What a surprise!!!
...
Did anyone else removed the glass before???

Yes, it has happened at least once here on MTO. I cannot find the link now.

-Sorry my bed Inglish :) -
Hero Member Posts: 552
Re: Writing an article about the Magnifying lens, can you help me out?
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2017, 07:38:50 PM »
What a surprise!!!
...
Did anyone else removed the glass before???

Yes, it has happened at least once here on MTO. I cannot find the link now.

:tu:

 

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