I'm cool now.... sort of...

[ReamerPunch]

All the effort to get this one so close to the original makes me wonder what those people could have done, if they worked on an original project.
Scary how real this one looks. Usually the fakes have an obvious sign of them being fake, but I guess I'm going by comparison of real and fake. I'd believe that one was real.
I guess performance could indicate flaws? 

[Aloha]

Direct from the Leatherman site.
TREAD™
Anytime, anywhere. The functionality of a Leatherman tool, with you everywhere. Our engineers designed multiple tools in each 17-4 stainless steel bracelet link, making usable tools like Allen wrenches, screwdrivers and box wrenches available at a moment’s notice. Adjustable to accommodate any wrist size and fully customizable with the links you need most, the Leatherman Tread is as stylish as it is functional.
SPECIFICATIONS
CIRCUMFERENCE 8.56 in | 21.74 cm
WEIGHT 5.9 oz | 168 g
BAND WIDTH 1.2 in | 3.05 cm
BRAND Leatherman

[sLaughterMed]

That is quite a good fake. I'd love to see some side by sides of the real thing vs a knockoff

[ThundahBeagle]

A knockoff is a rough and similar but different, immitation of something. Like your cheap and cheerful Chevy Avalanche non-PST. We know it isn't the real deal, and they don't pretend to be. But they offer a similar widget that does about the same thing for less money. Think Pop-Tarts vs grocery store brand fruit-filled toaster pastries.

What you have here, is a counterfeit.

Totally different animal. It should be traced back, in my opinion. If we think about it and work this backwards, this is likely a partner of Leatherman who is breaking a contract. Additionally, had any of us purchased this at the normal price and under the auspices of this being genuine, it seems we may not have known any better and could have been taken for a ride

I absolutely will report it to Leatherman, however there's not much they can do about these kinds of things.  The thing you have to remember is that US Patents don't apply in China, and any attempts to sue will be costly and result in absolutely nothing happening.

Def

I apologize, Grant. I don't presume to be on a high horse or try to suggest what you should do with your own property. I never had a Tread in hand. Packaging looks good enough where if I bought it online I wouldn't know the difference...

Which brings us to an interesting place. In terms of LM not having legal recourse... I don't know if Treads or parts of them are made China, but I do know that if they are, and if this made it out the back door of an OEM, Leatherman will be able to penalize or cancel their contractor/ manufacturer for allowing this to ever be sold. That can be as bad as any court action

[Aloha]

That is quite a good fake. I'd love to see some side by sides of the real thing vs a knockoff

I agree.  I'm now wondering if this is a partner of LM overseas who released marred or a down right counterfeit item. 

[Grant Lamontagne]

A knockoff is a rough and similar but different, immitation of something. Like your cheap and cheerful Chevy Avalanche non-PST. We know it isn't the real deal, and they don't pretend to be. But they offer a similar widget that does about the same thing for less money. Think Pop-Tarts vs grocery store brand fruit-filled toaster pastries.

What you have here, is a counterfeit.

Totally different animal. It should be traced back, in my opinion. If we think about it and work this backwards, this is likely a partner of Leatherman who is breaking a contract. Additionally, had any of us purchased this at the normal price and under the auspices of this being genuine, it seems we may not have known any better and could have been taken for a ride

I absolutely will report it to Leatherman, however there's not much they can do about these kinds of things.  The thing you have to remember is that US Patents don't apply in China, and any attempts to sue will be costly and result in absolutely nothing happening.

Def

I apologize, Grant. I don't presume to be on a high horse or try to suggest what you should do with your own property. I never had a Tread in hand. Packaging looks good enough where if I bought it online I wouldn't know the difference...

Which brings us to an interesting place. In terms of LM not having legal recourse... I don't know if Treads or parts of them are made China, but I do know that if they are, and if this made it out the back door of an OEM, Leatherman will be able to penalize or cancel their contractor/ manufacturer for allowing this to ever be sold. That can be as bad as any court action

No apology necessary- I ever took any offense in the slightest.  I totally agree with you BTW, just our loyalty here is to our membership, not to Leatherman.  I will send them a link to this thread out of courtesy and goodwill, but we are not beholden to any manufacturer.  None of them pay the bills here, but the members do, and so you are all my first priority.

If it turns out that this is as good as a real Tread, or at least close enough, then I would rather members buy these counterfeits and save their hard earned money to spend on friends, family and good times.  If however, if turns out to be a piece of junk, well then I would also rather no one else wastes their money on it. 

Def

[Grant Lamontagne]

Direct from the Leatherman site.
TREAD™
Anytime, anywhere. The functionality of a Leatherman tool, with you everywhere. Our engineers designed multiple tools in each 17-4 stainless steel bracelet link, making usable tools like Allen wrenches, screwdrivers and box wrenches available at a moment’s notice. Adjustable to accommodate any wrist size and fully customizable with the links you need most, the Leatherman Tread is as stylish as it is functional.
SPECIFICATIONS
CIRCUMFERENCE 8.56 in | 21.74 cm
WEIGHT 5.9 oz | 168 g
BAND WIDTH 1.2 in | 3.05 cm
BRAND Leatherman

Mine weighs 173g.  I don't think 5g is a significant difference between them, as it is very easy to have a scale out by more than that, and manufacturers' info is rarely 100% accurate.  They don't weigh each piece, they weigh a prototype or pre-production version and never change the documentation even though there may be changes to the item itself.

With scales that are not legal for trade, a 2.9% difference is not significant, so I guess I will have to get a real Tread at some point and weigh them both on my scale to see if there's any difference.

Def

[Aloha]

You are right.  That weight difference can be many things.  This Tread is interesting.  I'm certainly staying tuned to see how this plays out. 

[Mechanickal]

You are right.  That weight difference can be many things.  This Tread is interesting.  I'm certainly staying tuned to see how this plays out.

The correct term is:

[Aloha]

 

it is. 

[David Bowen]

Got the new Tread LT in today, same Tread as before but now 30% more narrow for small wrists and 10% lighter. Still feels like the same 'ol Tread though.  I usually wear my Tread on my left wrist when I don't wear my watch but I'll try my  watch on one and tread on the other. This method seems to work for most people so I'll see. Here's a pic showing the width differences.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Blackbeard]

I dont get the tread, is it jewelry or a last ditch tool? seems more like I am getting ready to be tossed in the back of a police car or a torture device or your arm got entangled with a bicycle or motorcycle

[David Bowen]

I dont get the tread, is it jewelry or a last ditch tool? seems more like I am getting ready to be tossed in the back of a police car or a torture device or your arm got entangled with a bicycle or motorcycle

It's designed to be a multitool when no other options are allowed like theme parks. Sometimes I don't want to carry a full tool with pliers and it compliments knife quite well.

Sent from my SM-T377V using Tapatalk

[ThePeacent]

Direct from the Leatherman site.
TREAD™
Anytime, anywhere. The functionality of a Leatherman tool, with you everywhere. Our engineers designed multiple tools in each 17-4 stainless steel bracelet link, making usable tools like Allen wrenches, screwdrivers and box wrenches available at a moment’s notice. Adjustable to accommodate any wrist size and fully customizable with the links you need most, the Leatherman Tread is as stylish as it is functional.
SPECIFICATIONS
CIRCUMFERENCE 8.56 in | 21.74 cm
WEIGHT 5.9 oz | 168 g
BAND WIDTH 1.2 in | 3.05 cm
BRAND Leatherman

Mine weighs 173g.  I don't think 5g is a significant difference between them, as it is very easy to have a scale out by more than that, and manufacturers' info is rarely 100% accurate.  They don't weigh each piece, they weigh a prototype or pre-production version and never change the documentation even though there may be changes to the item itself.

With scales that are not legal for trade, a 2.9% difference is not significant, so I guess I will have to get a real Tread at some point and weigh them both on my scale to see if there's any difference.

Def

just on that issue, I completely agree.
 I love weighing things (I've got 3 scales with 0.1g precision, 4 scales with 1g precision, and a very nice and expensive one with 0.01g precision and other cool feats.) and have witnessed the much common differences between the same models of knives, lights, SAKs or MTs as well as the difference between specs by the manufacturer and real weight.

For instance, Cold Steel folders can vary up to 12g between the same model, and up to 34g between the Cold Steel website's (or boxes) specs and the real thing.
In MTs I've found a 3 up to 11g difference acceptable and not that unusual
In SAKs by Wenger and Victorinox I've come to see differences of 4g between the same model, and 6g between the specifications they give and what the thing weighs.

So yes, a 5g difference in a >100g tool is absolutely acceptable and to be expected.   

[Grant Lamontagne]

I don't have precision instruments so that's why I always err on the side of caution.  I use a Starfrit kitchen scale for most things and a smaller scale I acquired from a "freelance pharmaceutical supply agency"  a number of years ago.  The small one is more precise, but tops out at (I think) 350g, while the Starfrit is good up to (I think) 5kg so it's usually the one I use for mailing stuff, which means it is usually handy and therefore the one I use mostly for everything else.

Def

[Grant Lamontagne]

I've done it!  I found the smoking gun that identifies the fakes versus the real Tread models! 

And it's significant, and easy to check, I don't know why/how I missed it before!   



I have a spare #1 link, it was a gift from Leatherman prior to the launch party that I was unable to attend.  It is the closest I have to a real Tread and I just dug it out this evening for comparison.  I should be getting ready to go out of town tomorrow on business, but damnit, this is important!



Sorry for the terrible pics, but it is so obvious you should spot it right away.



Yup, the barrel ends on the link for the screws to go into are absent on the fake Tread, meaning the screws take on the whole weight and pivot of the fake.  If you look closely at the screws for the fake, you can see they are rounded under the head, where the links and bridge pieces would pivot, in hopes of reducing the amount of friction on the screw so that it doesn't turn and come out, causing your bracelet to possibly fall off.



However, if you try to attach the real Tread link to the fake, the barrels actually fit inside the bridge pieces, but the screws don't go in- the threads work, but the flair on the mid section of the screws does not, meaning the screws will stick out if you try.





Other than the thread depth and the barrel ends the links are virtually identical.



The main body of the link is actually the same size, it's the curvature of the body coupled with poor lighting and a complete lack of photography skills that makes it look like the fake is bigger.

Initially I was inspired by the similarities and apparent quality of the fake, and the old Johnny Cash song kept echoing through my head....

Well, I left Kentucky back in forty nine
An' went to Detroit workin' on a 'sembly line
The first year they had me puttin' wheels on Cadillacs

Every day I'd watch them beauties roll by
And sometimes I'd hang my head and cry
'Cause I always wanted me one that was long and black.

One day I devised myself a plan
That should be the envy of most any man
I'd sneak it out of there in a lunchbox in my hand

Now gettin' caught meant gettin' fired
But I figured I'd have it all by the time I retired
I'd have me a car worth at least a hundred grand.

I'd get it one piece at a time
And it wouldn't cost me a dime
You'll know it's me when I come through your town

I'm gonna ride around in style
I'm gonna drive everybody wild
'Cause I'll have the only one there is around.

So the very next day when I punched in
With my big lunchbox and with help from my friends
I left that day with a lunch box full of gears

I've never considered myself a thief
But GM wouldn't miss just one little piece
Especially if I strung it out over several years.

The first day I got me a fuel pump
And the next day I got me an engine and a trunk
Then I got me a transmission and all the chrome

The little things I could get in my big lunchbox
Like nuts, an' bolts, and all four shocks
But the big stuff we snuck out in my buddy's mobile home.

Now, up to now my plan went all right
'Til we tried to put it all together one night
And that's when we noticed that something was definitely wrong.

The transmission was a fifty three
And the motor turned out to be a seventy three
And when we tried to put in the bolts all the holes were gone.

So we drilled it out so that it would fit
And with a little bit of help with an adapter kit
We had that engine runnin' just like a song
Now the headlight' was another sight
We had two on the left and one on the right
But when we pulled out the switch all three of 'em come on.

The back end looked kinda funny too
But we put it together and when we got through
Well, that's when we noticed that we only had one tail-fin
About that time my wife walked out
And I could see in her eyes that she had her doubts
But she opened the door and said "Honey, take me for a spin."

So we drove up town just to get the tags
And I headed her right on down main drag
I could hear everybody laughin' for blocks around
But up there at the court house they didn't laugh
'Cause to type it up it took the whole staff
And when they got through the title weighed sixty pounds.
I got it one piece at a time

And it wouldn't cost me a dime
You'll know it's me when I come through your town
I'm gonna ride around in style
I'm gonna drive everybody wild
'Cause I'll have the only one there is around.

Ugh! Yeah, RED RYDER

This is the COTTON MOUTH

In the PSYCHO-BILLY CADILLAC Come on

Huh, This is the COTTON MOUTH

And negatory on the cost of this mow-chine there RED RYDER

You might say I went right up to the factory

And picked it up, it's cheaper that way

Ugh!, what model is it?

Well, It's a '49, '50, '51, '52, '53, '54, '55, '56
'57, '58' 59' automobile

It's a '60, '61, '62, '63, '64, '65, '66, '67
'68, '69, '70 automobile.

My thought was to replace fake links one at a time with the real Leatherman links, available for individual purchase, figuring that eventually I'd have a whole Tread.... except that I don't believe you can buy a Tread clasp.  And the bridge pieces and screws may or may not come with the individual components and I can't use the screws I have.  And at $25/each, it would cost me more in the long run to buy individual pieces than to buy the whole.... but the thought was there.



Anyways, it is nice to see that there is an actual difference, and now that I have looked at it first hand I can see why the real Leatherman would be stronger to use- if one was to torque hard on a screw or nut with the fake, it could damage the tiny threads on the screws, since that's all that's holding them in.  I can also see drilling and tapping those barrel ends being a huge PITA, so I can understand why the fake eliminated them, and why the Tread costs so much more.

Do I still think the Tread is worth 4-5x as much after this?  I don't know, as I still have not used the thing for anything, and $200+ for a tool that doesn't get used seems a bit excessive.  And, there's the observation I had above, where you take it off to use the computer or something and forget to put it back on, meaning you may not have it when you need it.  Not having actually used this tool yet, I would say the Tread is probably worth at least 2-3x as much as this one, in construction and design if nothing else.

Def

[ReamerPunch]

Great find, but when looking at a Tread in a website to purchase, real or not, will the barrels or lack of barrels be apparent? 

[Mechanickal]

The displayed pic might even be of the real thing while you'll get a fake ib the mailbox.

You'll never know if you don't buy at avLM retailer

[Grant Lamontagne]

Excellent points!

If you are unsure, ask the seller for photos of the individual links- if they are legitimate, they won't mind snapping extra pics.  Even so, I would ask for closeups to check for scratches or something, rather than explain the real reason why you want extra pictures.   

Def

[Mechanickal]

Wow...
Writing replies 5min after waking up seems like a good guarantee for typos...

[ReamerPunch]

If you're paying fifty bucks, that's another sign. 

[Grant Lamontagne]

If you're paying fifty bucks, that's another sign. 

Absolutely!

Def

[Don Pablo]

If you're paying fifty bucks, that's another sign. 

Absolutely!

Def

All we need is a through test of the strength of the fake tread vs the real tread. 

[ThePeacent]

aaand there it is, it had to be the easiest and most direct explanation (Occam's), which is cutting costs, as like you said Grant cutting out those barrel ends with precision and good tolerances would be a PITA. Skipping them takes a complex step from the process, one which probably needs of special tooling and an expensive procedure.

I guess that this, coupled with a (probably) lower quality steel makes for the $ difference, adding to that the obvious "Plus" that you can concede yourself to add to the price if you're the one and only Leatherman, and the inventor of the original tool.

Nice Sherlock eyes! 

[ThundahBeagle]

Yes, good catch Grant!

With the stampings of lettering and measurements sizes being so close to the real production values, I have to wonder then, whether or not this manufacturer was asked to mock up a prototype at some point, which did not have the barrels, or if they bought one and used silly-putty to copy the stampings so accurately and skipped the barrels.

I second the motion for a double blind durability test.  Although I disdain the Tread as gimmicky, it would be good to know, for those who do like it.

What Grant said to me makes sense. The forum is dedicated to all multi tools, not beholden to any one manufacturer, and a fair assessment should be made of this one.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Well, here is the bad news- I am probably going to bite the bullet and spend the $$ to get a read Tread at some point in the near future, at which point I will do said tests and see where the limitations lie for each, as well as do more (better) direct comparisons of each link, the clasp etc.

I am really curious now.... so i anyone has a Tread they don't need and would be willing to sell me, please feel free to PM me.

Def

[Aloha]

Not so fast.  We'd need other members who have what they think are real Treads weigh in.  That could have been a prototype of how they intended on manufacturing that part.  I just checked mine and mine doesnt have those barrels.  The screws are very different than yours as well.  I'll take pictures tomorrow.  I wonder if the screw are the "tell tell" sign?  I posted pictures of the screws which are not tapered and have a "collar" which would strengthen the screw and allow the rotation of the link.  Not sure I don't have a fake but I can say the person I got it from buys from the store.  This has got very interesting. 

[Aloha]

See 2:12 of this video showing the link in question.  I don't see the collars on that link.  Please look at the screws which show the collar I was referring to.  Mine have that exact collar. In looking at a few videos I believe there maybe other ways to determine a fake/counterfeit Tread.  I saw in one video that the ball bearing was really sloppy.  I do believe the screws can be used to determine a fake as well.  Looking at the screws Def shows mine do not look like that nor do the ones in the video.   

https://youtu.be/zDDkCfwzhco

[Aloha]

And heres is another Tread showing the link collars.  I think I'll take mine apart to see if any links have those collars.  My initial guess is the early ones may have had those collars on the links  .  I really am a bit confused now. 

See 3:06 of this video.
 
https://youtu.be/NnSiBYZUERw

[Aloha]

So I am now thinking there was an early iteration of the Tread.  The early one had the collars on the links and screws without collars.  I am not sure I am clearly explaining this.  The next iteration was links without collars and screws with.  The 1st video I posted shows the links without collars and screws with.  The Urban Prep'r Tread was an early one that shows links with collars and screws without.  I think it maybe time to ask Leatherman for more insight. 

Does anyone have an early LM Tread?  One they know is legit?