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How reliable are multitools for military conditions?

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tr Offline ddogu

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How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
on: November 24, 2017, 08:35:26 AM
Just bought a second-hand Gerber MP600 DET and I am still intoxicated by it :)

Though, a question popped up in my mind now. When I obtained that tool ithe pliers were gunky and very hard to slide up, obviously the owner did not take much care of it. He said, it had been used "outdoors, in nature" and had been sitting in a cupboard for a while. So, companies like Gerber and LM make multitools suitable for military usage (like the DET or the LM MUT or the OHT), but how reliable are they? I mean, when you're out in the field in mud, sand, and a hell of a dust it feels like the tools are poised to get stuck. Especially in tools where the pliers have to engage first, so the other tools can be accessed, this can even have a lethal consequence.  :oops:  :surrender:

I'm starting to think and non-mechanical and solid tools are best suited for that kind of usage. Or are there any tools that are by design not affected by dirt or can very easily be cleaned, so they can at least function properly (albeit not comfortably) ?  :think:



ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #1 on: November 24, 2017, 09:48:08 AM
That guy probably never cleaned the tool when he owned it.  :P
If you don't keep your stuff clean, nothings going to work flawlessly. And it's not hard to keep it clean. :salute:
Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

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nz Offline Syncop8r

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #2 on: November 24, 2017, 11:27:29 AM
Soldiers regularly clean their weapons so perhaps it's not too big of a deal to them to clean their multitools in their downtime.
I guess OHO tools will gunk up more quickly.


es Offline ThePeacent

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #3 on: November 24, 2017, 12:39:51 PM
IME gunk and dirt tend to affect the inner implements before they have a noticeable effect on deploying the pliers.
All my flicky gerbers have had trouble in getting the saw, blade, scissors, drives etc. out because of gritty action and things inside the handles before their action was really harder, or the pliers became unflickable.

hasn't happened that often but it has.
Minimal maintenance is the cure for this disease, and an easy one.   :salute:
My toys:

MTs: Surge (2x), Skeletool CX, Rebar, Blast, Fuse, Micra, Squirt (3x), Wave, Crunch, Mini, Spirit (2x), Pro Scout, MP700 (2x), Diesel, Powerlock, PowerPlier (2x), PocketPowerPlier, Blacktip , ST6 (2x), 5WR, A100

SAKs: Bantam, Executive, Ambassador, Minichamp, Classic Alox, Champion, Farmer, Explorer, Swisschamp, Golf Tool, Wenger Champ, EVO 52, Pocket Tool Chest


us Offline Aloha

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #4 on: November 24, 2017, 01:38:00 PM
I'll also add the soldier who use MTs would most likely be cleaing them on down time.  Having them in a sheath would also keep them relatively clean.  I cannot imagine a soldier just allowing any of his gear to become nonfunctional. 
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us Offline tango44

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #5 on: November 24, 2017, 02:15:37 PM
Try some WD40, will help with good results on cleaning almost everything!
I want to get a MP600 (not the EOD version) just the normal black oxide version but haven't score one yet!
Still looking, watch out for the fake ones out there!
Here is more info about those:

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,18527.0.html
Enjoy!


us Offline WoodsDuck

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #6 on: November 24, 2017, 04:12:13 PM
Try some WD40, will help with good results on cleaning almost everything!
I want to get a MP600 (not the EOD version) just the normal black oxide version but haven't score one yet!
Still looking, watch out for the fake ones out there!
Here is more info about those:

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,18527.0.html

I mean... Without any more details of your search, I will point out the MP600 isn't exactly hard to find. If you're in the US, they're $38 on Amazon right now;

https://smile.amazon.com/Gerber-MP600-Multi-Plier-Needle-47550/dp/B000VORS1E/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1511536252&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=gerber+mp600+black&psc=1


us Offline tango44

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #7 on: November 24, 2017, 04:18:00 PM
Thank you very much, will order today!
Enjoy!


us Offline Lynn LeFey

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #8 on: December 07, 2017, 03:58:13 AM
I got a cheap MP600 used from ebay, and had the general feeling like the tolerances on it were pretty lose. It makes it feel rattly, but also not as likely to immediately jam up with a little grit. Even still, tools like this should be cleaned. As was mentioned, wd40 works great. I took mine completely apart and cleaned it well.

The U.S. Military has issued the MP600 before. A LOT of nations issue the Victorinox Soldier knife, either the current version, or the older one. I'm certain with a degree of maintenance, both of these tools, and likely many others, would be absolutely reliable in actual combat conditions.


us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #9 on: December 07, 2017, 04:23:48 AM
IMHO, the MP600 is probably the hardest MT to jam up. Most other brands tend to have much tighter tolerances,  but the MP600 is very forgiving in that respect. A lot of people talk about the rattle of the MP600 pliers, but that isn't something I've ever heard while it was in a sheath or in my pocket. So, I don't understand the 'rattle' being construed as an actual problem.
But, as others here have pointed out, a little cleaning here and there will prevent almost any MT from becoming inoperable.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 04:25:16 AM by gerleatherberman »
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us Offline WoodsDuck

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #10 on: December 07, 2017, 04:46:04 AM
It's like I told my cousin when I gave him an MP400; you can make a Gerber MT rust easily enough, but it won't give a smurf.


au Offline ReamerPunch

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us Offline tango44

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #12 on: December 07, 2017, 02:30:05 PM
Just got my MP600 from Amazon last week, NOT IMPRESSED AT ALL!
Tool is fine but not very practical!
To get the tools out is not easy, knife blade is small and short, same as the screw drivers.
Not the tool for me!

Victorinox Swisstool spirit is my personal favorite and it's hard to find a better tool.
Enjoy!


ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #13 on: December 07, 2017, 02:45:38 PM
Just got my MP600 from Amazon last week, NOT IMPRESSED AT ALL!
Tool is fine but not very practical!
To get the tools out is not easy, knife blade is small and short, same as the screw drivers.
Not the tool for me!

Victorinox Swisstool spirit is my personal favorite and it's hard to find a better tool.
It's hard to argue with that.  :D

But the problems you are having, let's break them down.

-Tools hard to get out.
Are you sure that you are just not used to inside opening tools? Granted, having to slide out the plier head first can probably be annoying.

-Short and stubby tools.
Alas, that is a big problem with the plier design.  :D It sacrifices tool length for quick deploying pliers, which leads me to the next point.
By the way, keep in mind that not everyone(or the military) considers a long knife to be important, because if the troops really need a knife to do something, they'll have a nice big folder or fixed blade, not a teensy multitool knife.

-Not practical? It depends on how you look at the tool. It's hard to beat the MP600 design if you need quick deploying pliers more than you need long tools.  :tu:
Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

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us Offline G-Dizzle

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #14 on: December 07, 2017, 02:48:03 PM
Just got my MP600 from Amazon last week, NOT IMPRESSED AT ALL!
Tool is fine but not very practical!
To get the tools out is not easy, knife blade is small and short, same as the screw drivers.
Not the tool for me!

Victorinox Swisstool spirit is my personal favorite and it's hard to find a better tool.
It's hard to argue with that.  :D

But the problems you are having, let's break them down.

-Tools hard to get out.
Are you sure that you are just not used to inside opening tools? Granted, having to slide out the plier head first can probably be annoying.

-Short and stubby tools.
Alas, that is a big problem with the plier design.  :D It sacrifices tool length for quick deploying pliers, which leads me to the next point.
By the way, keep in mind that not everyone(or the military) considers a long knife to be important, because if the troops really need a knife to do something, they'll have a nice big folder or fixed blade, not a teensy multitool knife.

-Not practical? It depends on how you look at the tool. It's hard to beat the MP600 design if you need quick deploying pliers more than you need long tools.  :tu:
I personally use my tools as much or more than my pliers so the Spirit is my favorite. But I can understand why if you are under fire and need the pliers in an emergency you would want them to be one handed


us Offline WoodsDuck

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #15 on: December 07, 2017, 02:59:13 PM
If you need a big knife and drivers that are easy to access...




Just sayin'


us Offline tango44

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #16 on: December 07, 2017, 03:04:48 PM
You have a valid point Pablo, but the 600 it's not made for me,
Enjoy!


us Offline Nix

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #17 on: December 07, 2017, 03:12:50 PM
I was issued a Gerber MT--not sure which model, probably the 600--but it did not seem like the tool for me. When I deployed I carried either a LM Wave or Charge. Both of these tools were great. I kept my kit clean and functional and never had an issue.

I'm not sure all soldiers are always so fastidious though.... :o


us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #18 on: December 07, 2017, 04:06:52 PM
Interesting people keep plugging the swisstool spirit in subforums not pertaining to victorinox. :think:
I say that, because the Spirit is the absolute easiest MT to gunk up and jam in a harsh work environment. Tolerances are extremely tight. I found I had to clean and oil mine very often when in use at my job. And mine was only exposed to saw dust and sanding dust. I imagine dirt and sand would be even worse. You CANNOT disassemble and do a real cleaning on it either.
Another thing is the swisstool (both spirit and the big swisstool) are pretty much useless when your fingernails aren't in good shape. I tear my finger nails fairly often, so I know that to be a fact.
I like both, but find them mostly suitable for clean work environments.
Anyway. /rant.
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us Offline WoodsDuck

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #19 on: December 07, 2017, 04:16:13 PM
Interesting people keep plugging the swisstool spirit in subforums not pertaining to victorinox. :think:
I say that, because the Spirit is the absolute easiest MT to gunk up and jam in a harsh work environment. Tolerances are extremely tight. I found I had to clean and oil mine very often when in use at my job. And mine was only exposed to saw dust and sanding dust. I imagine dirt and sand would be even worse. You CANNOT disassemble and do a real cleaning on it either.
Another thing is the swisstool (both spirit and the big swisstool) are pretty much useless when your fingernails aren't in good shape. I tear my finger nails fairly often, so I know that to be a fact.
I like both, but find them mostly suitable for clean work environments.
Anyway. /rant.

I made a similar post in another thread a while back. Most likely sand would be a major problem for the Spirit.


ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #20 on: December 07, 2017, 04:23:20 PM
Interesting people keep plugging the swisstool spirit in subforums not pertaining to victorinox. :think:
I say that, because the Spirit is the absolute easiest MT to gunk up and jam in a harsh work environment. Tolerances are extremely tight. I found I had to clean and oil mine very often when in use at my job. And mine was only exposed to saw dust and sanding dust. I imagine dirt and sand would be even worse. You CANNOT disassemble and do a real cleaning on it either.
Another thing is the swisstool (both spirit and the big swisstool) are pretty much useless when your fingernails aren't in good shape. I tear my finger nails fairly often, so I know that to be a fact.
I like both, but find them mostly suitable for clean work environments.
Anyway. /rant.

I made a similar post in another thread a while back. Most likely sand would be a major problem for the Spirit.
Use the Spirit in an IT or office environment.

MP600 AK-47 kind of tools in a dirty environment.

 :D
Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!


us Offline Lynn LeFey

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #21 on: December 07, 2017, 04:33:01 PM
Not to mention you can get about 3 MP600s for the cost of 1 Swisstool Spirit.


us Offline G-Dizzle

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How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #22 on: December 07, 2017, 04:42:04 PM
Zachary Fowler used his spirit to win the 87 days of alone with 10 items, none of which were oil or cleaning material I think some people sell it short. That said. I never made the claim that it was better for military use. I just said that since I use the outside tools more, it is better for me. That was not intended to be the answer to the OP. If i were going to be fighting in the desert though i sure would not be taking a gerber if i had my choice. It would most certianly be a st300 or rebar
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 04:49:13 PM by gdoolittle »


us Offline WoodsDuck

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #23 on: December 07, 2017, 04:49:17 PM
Disclaimer:

The Spirit is an awesome tool and I love mine. I've been carrying it in my backpack since 2016  :tu:

Also, it's the only MT I have that I wouldn't be afraid to dunk in water to clean out in the field. It may not be rust proof, but it's a lot closer than any of my other non-SAK MTs. This may mitigate the vulnerability to grit and grime somewhat.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 04:50:57 PM by WoodsDuck »


ca Offline Grant Lamontagne

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #24 on: December 07, 2017, 06:12:49 PM
This might help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_cXzbq3FDM&t=594s

How can you talk for almost 17 minutes about something and still not know a damned thing about it?  SOG created a sliding head plier tool?  Since when?

Also, pretty sure the military does a lot more than just throw multitools at gravel, dirt and fences.   :facepalm:

And I am not sure that any multitool is going to easily remove bolts from a HUMVEE, nor is anyone ever likely to be trying to fix one in the field- if they get damaged the troops pile into another vehicle in the convoy and it is either towed or abandoned. 

Def
Leave the dents as they are- let your belongings show their scars as proudly as you do yours.


us Offline G-Dizzle

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #25 on: December 07, 2017, 06:41:34 PM
This might help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_cXzbq3FDM&t=594s

How can you talk for almost 17 minutes about something and still not know a damned thing about it?  SOG created a sliding head plier tool?  Since when?

Also, pretty sure the military does a lot more than just throw multitools at gravel, dirt and fences.   :facepalm:

And I am not sure that any multitool is going to easily remove bolts from a HUMVEE, nor is anyone ever likely to be trying to fix one in the field- if they get damaged the troops pile into another vehicle in the convoy and it is either towed or abandoned. 

Def
Yeah.. i used to like this guys videos but they have gone downhill


us Offline WoodsDuck

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #26 on: December 07, 2017, 06:59:13 PM
You want to see a terrible tool review? I was tempted to make a thread just to showcase this nonsense, but here you go;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYvwppORhLQ

Enjoy Wranglershill trashing the Wave and lauding the amazing quality of Irwin.


ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #27 on: December 07, 2017, 07:02:57 PM
You want to see a terrible tool review? I was tempted to make a thread just to showcase this nonsense, but here you go;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYvwppORhLQ

Enjoy Wranglershill trashing the Wave and lauding the amazing quality of Irwin.
Nice going, comparing apples and oranges.  :rofl:
Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

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00 Offline Mechanickal

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #28 on: December 07, 2017, 10:08:27 PM
I'd love a thread like that!

The ultimate way to turn a bad day into :rofl:


us Offline cody6268

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Re: How reliable are multitools for military conditions?
Reply #29 on: December 15, 2017, 02:53:18 PM
You want to see a terrible tool review? I was tempted to make a thread just to showcase this nonsense, but here you go;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYvwppORhLQ

Enjoy Wranglershill trashing the Wave and lauding the amazing quality of Irwin.
d


Oh boy, that piece of crap. I bought the 6LN based model the Christmas season they came out at Lowes, and I ended up throwing it in the bottom of my toolbox, as the pliers were hard to unlock (even more than a 9R pair from the '40s that predated the quick release!), and the bit driver closed up easily, having only been held open by flimsy ball bearing detent. The blade steel is crap, doesn't hold an edge.  And, the rivets holding the tool together were quite loose--making it flimsier than even Harbor Freight locking pliers.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 02:54:30 PM by cody6268 »


 

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