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Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument 5688

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Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2017, 12:42:03 PM »
OK, wait a bit, I need to come up for batoning a bit......  :salute:

99% of the time we buy local hardwoods (Camelthorn and Mopani are prefered) for firemaking purposes, this is for the "braai".......barbecue, only done right....... :whistle:

We buy the wood in 25kg bags in general, containing sawn and sometimes split wood in 30-40cm lenghts.

Most people also have an extremely large en always extremely dull axe in, at or about the "braai" place for splitting wood.

I firmly believe there is no safer or easier way to split a few pieces when starting the fire than batoning with a large knife.....and I always have a big leaf spring chopper around.
No Life Club Posts: 1,332
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2017, 12:42:12 PM »
#3 Fixed blade knives for 'defense'. Okay. So... HOW much training do you have in knife fighting? Have you ever BEEN in a knife fight? Was it fun? Is it something you'd ever want to do again? No? Well, then maybe a swiss army knife with a saw is a better answer, and use it go cut yourself a 4 foot long stick.
Better solution: almost anything. Seriously. A f'ing sock with a rock in it is a better defensive tool. But a long stick would be my choice if avoidance was impossible.
I kinda like my fixed blades for defense... and yeah come at me with your stick :D

I like your fixed blades. So HEMA?  :D

There is no magic therefore gadgets!
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Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2017, 12:52:02 PM »
#3 Fixed blade knives for 'defense'. Okay. So... HOW much training do you have in knife fighting? Have you ever BEEN in a knife fight? Was it fun? Is it something you'd ever want to do again? No? Well, then maybe a swiss army knife with a saw is a better answer, and use it go cut yourself a 4 foot long stick.
Better solution: almost anything. Seriously. A f'ing sock with a rock in it is a better defensive tool. But a long stick would be my choice if avoidance was impossible.
I kinda like my fixed blades for defense... and yeah come at me with your stick :D

I like your fixed blades. So HEMA?  :D
Yup, fairly old picture though... that Hanwei feather is broken in two and I got new swords. My latest additions you can see here

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Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,780 Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over.
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2017, 12:53:14 PM »
Great stuff Lynn. Had a good laugh. Just about spit out my coffee.  :rofl:
However.......


I've watched a lot of videos on bug out bags, get home bags, etc. There are things in those videos that make me super crazy. I thought I'd share. Much of this is just for fun. Any preparation is better than nothing, and i'm not trying to crush anyone's feelings here.

And please keep in mind, these comments are concerning '72 hour bags' or thereabouts. Some of the things I'm commenting on are perfectly legitimate in LONG-term kits (what some people call 'I'm Never Coming Home' or INCH bags)

#1 The CRKT Eat'n Tool.
Question: What's the best way to waste your valuable money in survival supplies? Answer: Buy a CRKT Eat'n Tool. Extra bonus, buy one in Titanium.
The weight difference between titanium and stainless steel are extremely negligible at this scale, Most of these stupid things have non polished bowls, so they look like a frickin breeding ground for bacteria, and worst of all, they completely SUCK as spoons, with that short, stupid handle. The extra functions don't make up for the complete suckness of its main function.
Better solution: A stainless steel spoon. Simple. It might cost you all of 10g of extra weight. They cost 25 CENTS at every Goodwill store and are essentially indestructable.

Nailed it. Unless it is the MT.org 1 million post one. It is just plain awesome because MTO! Actually I use chopsticks. Love em.

#2 Paracord.
I admit. I carry paracord. For now. It will be replaced soon. What with? Tarred bank line. When was the last time you honestly NEEDED 550lb strength cordage? And if it was 'to haul a car out of a ditch', then you should have had straps for that, not relying on a cordage that stretches. And '7 inner strands can be...' No. Shut up. If you KNOW you're likely to need lighter cordage, BRING lighter cordage. Dental floss, fishing line, silk thread, I don't care what, but something. If you're tearing apart your heavy cordage to get light cordage, you're wasting your time, and space in your pack, and being stupid.
Worse: Firecord. Hey, here's a great idea, let's put flamable crap in our cordage that we need to tear apart to get to! One MORE idiotic thing! Hey, why not just have fireproof stuff... I dunno... NOT in your frickin ROPE!
Better solution: Bank line and a lighter sewing weight/fishing line cord. Combined, they still weigh a LOT less than an equivalent length of paracord.

I just used paracord yesterday to drag a deer out of the woods. Hell of a lot lighter than a rope or those nylon straps we used to carry. Just put a marlin hitch on a branch and drag away. I also use it for my ridge line when I go camping. However, I love bankline and jute cord for everything else. Must have.

#3 Fixed blade knives for 'defense'. Okay. So... HOW much training do you have in knife fighting? Have you ever BEEN in a knife fight? Was it fun? Is it something you'd ever want to do again? No? Well, then maybe a swiss army knife with a saw is a better answer, and use it go cut yourself a 4 foot long stick.
Better solution: almost anything. Seriously. A f'ing sock with a rock in it is a better defensive tool. But a long stick would be my choice if avoidance was impossible.

Bingo! Never have been in one, don't ever want to. I have better uses for my fixed blade, like gutting and skinning game.

#4 Fixed blade knives for 'batoning'. I wondered long and hard why anyone would ever need to baton. Okay, so you baton a piece of wood to get to the dry center to make firesticks in wet conditions. Great. No. Take something to kindle your fire WITH you. We're talking for a bag with a 3 or so day duration. NOT bushcraft. Shove that bushcraft mentailty up your...
Better solution. Bring more cotton balls dipped in parafin. They weigh less, and are a more certain solution.

In most cases, never shove anything up you ass, it's not healthy.  :rofl:
When I was growing up they where just called primitive skills. Yes I use my Mora to baton light material. Not 6 inch logs! Gareth said it perfectly.  If you have some of the skills, use them. I agree with the extra fire supplies. If it is an emergency, I want fire 5 minutes ago.


#5 improvised shelter supplies.
Better solution: NOT improvised shelter. You know... like a f'ing tent. Maybe don't buy that $300 custom stupid f'ing KNIFE and buy an awesome ultralight TENT instead. And unless they're carrying a hammock, you should REALLY be carrying a ground pad. I personally prefer closed cell foam, just plain old sleeping pad, because there is nothing that can fail on it.

Tarps are the way to go and Gaute said it perfectly. I gave up on tents years ago. But this just depends on the person preference.

#6 Crank powered anything.
I have a crank powered radio, and have owned two crank powered flashlights. The flashlights were purchased for the purpose of putting in emergency bags, but I wanted to test them first. And... They suck.
I have a cheap one called 'The Charger' I got from a prepper supply company for $10 whose name sounds a bit like 'Emergency Essentials', or exactly like it, and I got an Energizer Weatheready. The Charger weighs 6oz, and the Weatheready 4oz. I can crank wither for about 3 minutes before it becomes extremely uncomfortable. The thing they don't tell you about these is that they are powered by rechargeable batteries, which lose charge over time. They will 'set' in a lower charge state and no longer accept charge if you don't recharge them with some frequency. So, they are not a 'stuff it in the pack and forget about it' solution. The phone charger on the Charger MIGHT work, but after 3 minutes of cranking, it did 0% change to the charge on my phone. What I've heard is half an hour will give you about 5%, but I'm not holding my breath. Regular old flashlights weigh less, including lots of spare batteries. You might have to swap the batteries out every few years, but... you'd have to jerk around with the crank lights anyway. Oh, and the light on the Charger, after not much use at all, is very flakey. Sometimes will, sometimes won't come on.And the Weatheready needs about a minute of cranking for 2 minutes of runtime.
Better solution: bring a little AAA light and spare batteries. An aluminum 2xAAA weighs 2oz with 2 alcaline cells. Each alcaline cell weighs 1/4 oz. Eneloop rechargeables weigh about .4 oz each. So you could bring the aforementioned 2xAAA light, and 8 spare batteries for the weight of the Weatheready, take up less space, and have a light that runs immediately, and a LONG time.
This is one of those times where I got gear, and tested it before cramming it in my bag and assuming it'd be fine.

110% agree.

#7 KniveS (hard stress on the plural)
The next parrot that screams 'Two is one, one is none' is getting it! Shut... the... F***... UP! I get the need for redundancy in gear. Carry a spare. DON'T carry seven. LITERALLY seven. You only got the two hands! What are you doing? Throwing them into lakes? I'd like to say that seven is the MOST knives I've seen in a bag.
better solution: NOT carrying SEVEN KNIVES!!!

I 100% agree. 2 or 3 should hold you for a while.


#8 Life Boat Survival Bars
Look... I don't know how to tell you this. Those aren't magical elven Lembas bread. They're just basically sugar cookies. 'They don't provoke thirst'. So? That's because they're for LIFE BOATS... where drinkable water might be in short demand. 'They have your required calories...'. No. No they don't. They have MINIMUM SURVIVAL CALORIES FOR A SEDENTARY PERSON ON A LIFE BOAT, 1200 calories per day. 'They last five years'. So? So do Ramen noodles. Oh, and guess which one costs less to get/replace... and doesn't taste like total butt? I said TOTAL butt. I know some people aren't a fan of ramen.
Better solution: Ramen noodles. Or instant mashed potatoes. Instant oatmeal. About a jillion other things.

Don't know nothing about the bars. I just eat regular food.

#9 Mirror for signaling
I'm all for having a small mirror. It's great if you take a thorn bush branch in the face, and need to see the damage. For signalling? I mean... you DO realize you're not a downed WWII pilot in the pacific... right? I'm not saying the'yre utterly worthless in the modern... no, you know what? I AM saying they're utterly worthless in the modern world, where there are literal tons of garbage making sparkly spots on the planet's surface.
Better Solution: Chem light? Smoke flare? Don't bother? I'd still have the mirror, just stop trying to sell it as a signalling device.

Again Gaute said it. perfectly. Get one. Learn to use it. Also great for getting thorns out of you face.

#10 Overdone First Aid
Trauma Kits, unless you know how to use them. 'Nuff Said. But related, tourniquets. suture kits. Fish anytibiotics. F'ing REALLY? You're going to dose yourself with fish antibiotics, not knowing what you have? Have fun with that.

Fish antibiotics......... :rofl:


As a fun bonus: Lynn's pronunciation and definition guide for BOBers.
Fresnel: pronounced 'fruh-NELL'. Augustin-Jean Fresnel. He's french, the s is silent and the stress on the second syllable. He invented a neat, thin lens.
Balaclava: A large scarf used to cover the face.
Baklava: a delicious dessert of middle eastern origin.
Pummel: To strike, usually with fists.
Pommel: the butt-end of a knife.
Use: to take, hold or deploy something as a means of achieving a result. to employ.
Utilize: To use something for a function other than it's intended purpose.
   Example: You USE a spoon to eat soup. You UTILIZE a spoon to dig a cat hole.

"I wrapped the birchbark fibers in my baklava, and beat them with the pummel of my knife, to utilise them in fire-making, which I accomplished with my FREZ-nul lens." - Every prepper on youtube.

 :rofl:

I say Frez-nul-lens, but nobody told me the "s" is silent. However,  I will still pronounce it as Frez-nul-lens. The rules in our messed up language says that is how it is pronounced. LOL!
Also, I still need to get one of these. I still just use an old lens out of a broken camera.


Hope you all enjoy. :D

Again, great read Lynn!
 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 01:39:07 PM by ducttapetech »

Nate

Foxtrot Foxtrot Sierra
OCD Squad Leader Admin Team Zombie Apprentice Posts: 11,562
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2017, 01:35:34 PM »
@ #7

Hmmm... I don't own a GOB, BOG, BOB, 72h Bag but.... I usually carry a MT and a folder (that is 2). My tiny FAK contains a Classic and a Bakers Knife (that makes 4), my tiny "Survivall"* Kit, which is the closest to a BOB I own, has a Midshipman (making it 5). I'm currently playing with small fixed blades, that is why today a CRKT Ruger Cordite rides in my backpack (that's 6). God bless the new Alox @work is bladelss, so it doesn't count...
Yeah 7 is way too many :rofl:

* Can anyone tell me why there is only one "L"? I mean I don't want to survive Al (he is old so that is a given anyway). No! I want to survive ALL :think:
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 01:39:38 PM by Etherealicer »

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Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,780 Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over.
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2017, 01:52:29 PM »
OK, wait a bit, I need to come up for batoning a bit......  :salute:

99% of the time we buy local hardwoods (Camelthorn and Mopani are prefered) for firemaking purposes, this is for the "braai".......barbecue, only done right....... :whistle:

We buy the wood in 25kg bags in general, containing sawn and sometimes split wood in 30-40cm lenghts.

Most people also have an extremely large en always extremely dull axe in, at or about the "braai" place for splitting wood.

I firmly believe there is no safer or easier way to split a few pieces when starting the fire than batoning with a large knife.....and I always have a big leaf spring chopper around.
I agree. My bitch is when idiots try to baton 6 inch logs with a small knife and then says that the knife sucks because it broke.
Batoning is not some new skill that just showed up on youtube. Although it has become a craze here lately. I learned how to do it from my grandfather when I was a kid. And it wasn't just for making fires either. It always amazed me what that man could do with his fixed blade and his Case Stockman.

Nate

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Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2017, 02:06:10 PM »
Can someone explain one other thing - why are some people spending very big sums of money (let us say over $500 or €500, depending on where we are) on backpacks that weight more than the contents of the bag put together (especially those 120liter "backpack" that requires a frame and straps and a hip belt which are all sold separately) but then count grams on eating utensils, folding knives (the back up for a fixed blade), fixed blade knives (have to be light to strike fast :facepalm: ) and just about everything else with the exception of a wool blanket which is often in itself heavier than most well rounded sleep systems of equal warmth can be?

Solving problems you didn't know you had in the most obscure way possible

"And now, it's time to hand this over to our tame race axe driver. Some say, he can live in the forest for six months at a time without food, and he knows of a secret tribe of only women where he is their God. All we know is, he's call the Styx!" - TazzieRob
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Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2017, 02:10:10 PM »
a few ideas from Mors




Solving problems you didn't know you had in the most obscure way possible

"And now, it's time to hand this over to our tame race axe driver. Some say, he can live in the forest for six months at a time without food, and he knows of a secret tribe of only women where he is their God. All we know is, he's call the Styx!" - TazzieRob
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,780 Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over.
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2017, 02:19:44 PM »
Can someone explain one other thing - why are some people spending very big sums of money (let us say over $500 or €500, depending on where we are) on backpacks that weight more than the contents of the bag put together (especially those 120liter "backpack" that requires a frame and straps and a hip belt which are all sold separately) but then count grams on eating utensils, folding knives (the back up for a fixed blade), fixed blade knives (have to be light to strike fast :facepalm: ) and just about everything else with the exception of a wool blanket which is often in itself heavier than most well rounded sleep systems of equal warmth can be?
Beats me about the packs. I just use an old ALICE pack I got for 25 bucks. Has a frame, light weight and tough as nails.
I do like wools blankets. But I use them when it is warmer and I don't need a bulky -30 sleeping bag.

If done right, even with wool blankets and older gear that is heavier, the pack with everything in it should only weigh about 25 to 30 pounds at most. Give or take on the climate.  Food and water is about the only thing that should really start to weigh the pack down. And that is just for camping. A BOB or 72 hour or what the hell ever they are called now will have more in it. But of course, it is a totally different situation. You may have kids with you or other factors.
I have said in a another thread before, people are really over thinking this anymore and are just going at each other. The thing is, it is you who is going to be using the bag and make the bag according to you skills and the things you like or are used to and make it to fit you needs.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 02:25:34 PM by ducttapetech »

Nate

Foxtrot Foxtrot Sierra
OCD Squad Leader Admin Team Zombie Apprentice Posts: 11,562
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2017, 02:24:01 PM »
Can someone explain one other thing - why are some people spending very big sums of money (let us say over $500 or €500, depending on where we are) on backpacks that weight more than the contents of the bag put together (especially those 120liter "backpack" that requires a frame and straps and a hip belt which are all sold separately) but then count grams on eating utensils, folding knives (the back up for a fixed blade), fixed blade knives (have to be light to strike fast :facepalm: ) and just about everything else with the exception of a wool blanket which is often in itself heavier than most well rounded sleep systems of equal warmth can be?
I cannot talk about other people... but I own two EVOC backpacks (10 & 20L). They are both fairly heavy and fairly expensive. They are heavy due to the many pockets on the inside, letting you organize stuff (Ok, the 20L is also heavy because it has a back protector built in, not the worst idea when you cycle on icy roads).

CON
- Heavy
- Expensive

PRO
- Excellent quality and waterproof (the 20L has a built in water cover)
- The many pockets/sleeves let you organize your gear for easy access and saves you some weight as you don't need additional organizers like a Maxpedition pouch.
- They are small (as opposed to wide) allowing you to move unhindered in crowds

And yeah, if I can find equivalent/better gear that is lighter, I go for it. I have to carry it all the time.
If you are talking about those ridiculous "tactical" backpacks with molle webbing (which no one uses but adds tons of weight) all over... I have no idea :D
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 02:25:34 PM by Etherealicer »

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Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,780 Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over.
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2017, 02:28:27 PM »
a few ideas from Mors




Love that guy! He has forgot more than most of us will ever know.

Nate

Foxtrot Foxtrot Sierra
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Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2017, 03:48:18 PM »
Now I have had a laugh, I must begrudgingly admit a few items in my camp bag (can be used for a bug out I guess) designed for the Alabama woods. Cheap lightweight tent for one (me. Haha), 200ft if high tensil twine (cheap and easy to work with for me), 30ft of nylon rope (in case I need to drag my lazy but up a hill or something), a small machete with a long wood sawing portion on the back, a strong 5" fixed blade for cutting stuff my MT knife won't cut, small hatchet,  a 3lb bag of beef jerky, a 1/4in thick 2' x 6' shipping foam rolled up, big can of Off bug spray, bandaids with rubbing alcohol, compact snake bite kite, three led flashlights with a 24pk of light weight non-alkaline batteries, a phone charger that uses said batteries, an energizer 350Lumen strobing flashlight, bar of soap, a few other foor goodies, a pint of burbon(even though I don't drink, it may help with the boredom if my phone goes dead), a few cans of oil packed kippers and sardines, sleeve of saltines, a small stainless bowl with short spoon, a water filter tube, canteen, a tiny ferro rod (redundancy), a six pack of BIC lighters, a roll of toilet paper(good to start fires and clean my butt), a modified LM Rebar, and lastly a Thompson sub-machine  gun.

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Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2017, 03:58:06 PM »
And a partridge in a pear tree!  :cheers:
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Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2017, 04:04:31 PM »
Your posts are always great!! I always get a good laugh out of them!!!

First aid is something I've been looking into. I have no training whatsoever and wanted to get some so it is the subject that was fresh in my mind.

People sometimes have small OR's in their bags, but can barely (with their skills) assess and treat a non-life-threatening wound, let alone apply stitches and other advanced medical things... (which I oviously know nothing about).

Great post Lynn!!
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Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2017, 04:20:45 PM »
1. Use what works for you. 
2. See #1
3. Maybe I've watched too many of the videos you watched.  Fasten fixed blade to 4 foot stick you mention using cordage of choice.
4. This seems to evoke some really passionate debate.  Again I say, whatever works for you.  So for those who absolutely are passionate against battoning, there is never a time or situation?  Just curious. 
5. I've seen albeit never used a tarp in the manner some have.  Seems a tarp for some is every bit as effective.  There are always better options however.  I'd also add it certainly depends on where you live.
6. I don't own anything crank powered. 
7. 1 is none and 7 is one.  SIGH. 
8. There are so many great options.  I also don't do MREs. 
9. Not sure what to say other than my compass has one. 
10. If the 1st aid kit one has is packed with items you have no clue how to use then thats just silly.  There are so many classes you can take to learn to do basic 1st aid as well as more involved 1st aid.  My opinion is if you are a parent or have a partner then you should have basic 1st aid skills.  I'm not talking about applying a bandaid either.  I'd highly suggest taking classes rather than watching youtube videos. 

Lynn I took you post as tongue in cheek which had me laughing.  My honest thoughts are people should do what they feel is best for them.  There are way to many "experts" on the internet.  Seems like every year the there is a must have survival item.  A must have knife, light, or whatever.  The assembling of these bags to me is more hobby than anything.  Let me put it simply like this, if we are talking survival all you need to do is look at the homeless in your area.  I'm pretty sure they don't have 1/4 of the stuff those so called experts have.  If we are talking 72 hours or heck one week survival then what are we really talking about?  In my opinion its, COMFORT.  Thing is, most cannot go 24 hours without a smoke or drink let alone all the crap they put into their mouths.  How the heck in all reality are they gonna "survive" 72 hours?  I call BS on it all actually.             

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Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2017, 04:37:25 PM »
And don't get me started on bottoning  :rant: endless YouTube videos of people breaking cheap non full tang moras and bitching when they break  :rant: smurfs use a smurfing hatchet or collect smaller wood ,or use a more expensive full tang if you want to Batton the smurf out of it ,but I guess it's too expensive and pretty  ;)
Bingo!
 You can baton with a morakniv and I do sometimes, just not a 6 inch log. Great for fine stuff.

Exactly mate  :salute: I've battoned smaller bits of wood with even my #1 but only small bits that arnt full of big knots  :tu:
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Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2017, 11:04:32 PM »
While I don't fully agree with all of your points, Lynn, it is merely from a matter of local terrain and gear preference.

For example, I don't like bankline, but no one has been able to prove to me that it is superior the the BRAIDED mason twine I can pick up pretty easily anyplace that actually sells working tools around here (you know, anywhere but Wallyworld) and doesn't have an odd smell to it. Maybe it was that batch of bankline, but I can't buy it locally period, I have to special order it.

But part of why I have kind of dropped out the "prepper community" is that most people say their plan isn't to run to the woods and play out their Robinson Crueso/Mountainman fantasy, but then that is what they pack for. I think it is becuase no one can reconcil the mental disparrity between the following kinds of sources:
-bushcraft, overly romantized descriptions of being a cowboy or a mountain man, or traditional pre-industrial skills (usually practiced by people who don't walk the walk, talk the talk, and die of old age at 35 assuming they made it out puberty- I like my running water)
-WWII-vintage aviator survival manuals and more modern manuals that trace their way to those
-fall out shelters (and the delusions that follow)
-political wackiness and the panic that can be stirred up by one guy on a dirt bike screaming into the night, "ISIS is comming! The ISIS is comming".
People have no idea what their plan is, so they try to absorb knowledge, never practice, and never try to apply it to their particular needs. But they will sure try to buy toys that can substitute for wisdom.

One of the things that makes me cringe is what I'll call "fad gear". Not all of it is "gucci gear", but the tool of your guru of choice. Like the Mora. I own a Mora. It's a nice knife. It isn't a great knife, but 10 years ago before they became super fashionable for their price they were good. They still are, honestly, but the prices have jumped two, three times and many of the more useful and traditional styles dropped there becuase they are a trendy brand, all of the wannabe followers of Mors K and Cody L pick it because "that's what the pros carry". Bankline has been around forever, and it didn't take off until Dave C made it popular through youtube- it's probably ok, I just don't see it as better than the braided stuff I can get any and every day of the week for less money. Batonning is a viable skill, it has a real role to play, but don't be stupid with it- an axe isn't a knife, and sometimes it's easier to carry a small fixed blade and small hatchet (or tomahawk) rather than some modern falcion. It is FUN to buy gear and show it off.

But planning is hard. Planning can be harsh. Sometimes planning leads you to the conclusion that if you don't have time to take it slow, you're going to die becuase you are physically incapable of being fast without abandoning someone. Sometimes the brutal honesty required to really do this is scary and depressing and honestly isn't fun. It's a lot more fun to think about how to deal with zombies and north korea invading, than it is to think about how to be a refugee. Particularly in modern natural disasters- have a way to keep that ID and cash and bank book on you at all times. I do think you should have two ways of starting fire, and a whistle, and yes, even a mirror, as all told, something like one of AMK's smaller kits, a ferro rod, and a lighter is less heavy than 22" long machete with a quarter inch thick blade with variable grind so it can both make sushi and chop into an engine block.

Most people who are prepping, they mean well. A LOT of them do well. But honestly, outside of earthquake, storm, fire and flood, if you live in the first world you don't have to worry that much. My focus is on getting home, which can mean one of two places, if I can be mobile. If I"m not motorized, the plan changes. If I"m there, I'm staying there, at least until I have more intel. I could load the gear for 72 hours in ten minutes if I'm going by car. If I'm going on foot, it won't get so bad so fast that I can't move it from the tote to my field pack. If I think an immediate situation will reach that point, yes, I"ll repack my long range pack, but I don't keep it set up like that every second of every hour of every day. Simple reality of my situation is my commute is 45-60 minutes depending on road conditions, and I can't keep a full sized 72 hour pack in my car, it isn't practical. When I lived an afternoon's walk from work, fine, yes, I had a 72 hour pack wiating for me. But now, it's a two day walk, and with my medical condition, I'm not sure my feet will still be useful if I have to do that in winter. Or my lungs. Come February, it's less painful and just as final for me to eat my pistol than it is to try to play out some hollywood fantasy.

I'm not damning anyone who keeps a 72hour pack loaded at all times. Go for it. Just think long and hard about what it is really for, and act on rational, coherent, deliberative thought. Not trying to look cool.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 11:33:21 PM by ironraven »

"Even if it is only the handful of people I meet on the street, or in my home, I can still protect them with this one sword" Kenshin Himura

Patriotism is a lively sense of collective responsibility, Nationalism is a silly cock crowing on it's own dunghill.

Necessity is the mother of invention. If you're not ready, it's "a mother". If you are, it's "mom".
Jr. Member Posts: 51
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2017, 12:01:07 AM »
While I don't fully agree with all of your points, Lynn, it is merely from a matter of local terrain and gear preference...
But part of why I have kind of dropped out the "prepper community" is that most people say their plan isn't to run to the woods and play out their Robinson Crueso/Mountainman fantasy, but then that is what they pack for. I think it is becuase no one can reconcil the mental disparrity between the following kinds of sources:
-bushcraft, overly romantized descriptions of being a cowboy or a mountain man, or traditional pre-industrial skills (usually practiced by people who don't walk the walk, talk the talk, and die of old age at 35 assuming they made it out puberty- I like my running water)
-WWII-vintage aviator survival manuals and more modern manuals that trace their way to those
-fall out shelters (and the delusions that follow)
-political wackiness and the panic that can be stirred up by one guy on a dirt bike screaming into the night, "ISIS is comming! The ISIS is comming".
People have no idea what their plan is, so they try to absorb knowledge, never practice, and never try to apply it to their particular needs. But they will sure try to buy toys that can substitute for wisdom.

One of the things that makes me cringe is what I'll call "fad gear". Not all of it is "gucci gear", but the tool of your guru of choice. Like the Mora. I own a Mora. It's a nice knife. It isn't a great knife, but 10 years ago before they became super fashionable for their price they were good. They still are, honestly, but the prices have jumped two, three times and many of the more useful and traditional styles dropped there becuase they are a trendy

...It's a lot more fun to think about how to deal with zombies and north korea invading, than it is to think about how to be a refugee. Particularly in modern natural disasters- have a way to keep that ID and cash and bank book on you at all times.
...When I lived an afternoon's walk from work, fine, yes, I had a 72 hour pack wiating for me. But now, it's a two day walk, and with my medical condition, I'm not sure my feet will still be useful if I have to do that in winter. Or my lungs. Come February, it's less painful and just as final for me to eat my pistol than it is to try to play out some hollywood fantasy.

I'm not damning anyone who keeps a 72hour pack loaded at all times. Go for it. Just think long and hard about what it is really for, and act on rational, coherent, deliberative thought. Not trying to look cool.


My personal philosophy is to prepare for the highest likelihood. I live in a city in the middle of a tectonic plate, quite high up (maybe a five or six hundred metres from the water but a good four metres higher), and there aren't any tornadoes so my two likeliest emergencies are a massive ice storm (we had one in the early 2000s that cut power, water and emergency services from the entire city for almost a week and caused a bunch of trees to crash to the ground all during -20c weather) and a fire. As for your point about Moras I use them because I've inherited them, my family has been using moras for 300 years, long before mora was a company and the ones I've bought I bought while I was in Sweden (I got a Mora 511 for $6CAD, buying them elsewhere just subjects you to massive hikes in price), I like them because they're attractive and I know I can trust them. As for your last point I'm still in my prime so I would have some chance of getting away but it would still be incredibly difficult and I cannot imagine anyone over the age of 45, with some exceptions of course, hiking twenty kilometres with a backpack that weights almost as much as they do.

In conclusion I think that the majority of YouTube preppers are the exact opposite of who would last during an emergency: unrealistic idealists who are convinced that a rifle will be more useful than a couple hundred dollars in cash and who have never spent a day working with their hands and because of that they buy something not because they trust it but rather because it looks cool or because it's popular.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 12:02:23 AM by GuacamoleBay »
No Life Club Posts: 3,105 American Clandestine Materials Executive (ACME)
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2017, 01:58:20 AM »
I think I was being over cynical and under expressive. Let me sum up.

I hate what I don't see. Planning. I rarely see realistic planning. And I rarely see realistic expectations. But when we strip off all fuzzy words, we're talking about becoming a refugee. Even if you have a place to go, that's what you are, a displaced person.

Should you have basic "wilderness" survival tools? Sure. PSK level stuff, light weight, compact. But don't think running for the hills is a plan. It isn't. At that point you go from being a refugee to a vagrant.

"Even if it is only the handful of people I meet on the street, or in my home, I can still protect them with this one sword" Kenshin Himura

Patriotism is a lively sense of collective responsibility, Nationalism is a silly cock crowing on it's own dunghill.

Necessity is the mother of invention. If you're not ready, it's "a mother". If you are, it's "mom".
Zombie Apprentice Posts: 14,586 Firm believer of Sturgeon's Law
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #49 on: December 04, 2017, 03:09:28 PM »
Now I have had a laugh, I must begrudgingly admit a few items in my camp bag (can be used for a bug out I guess) designed for the Alabama woods.
and lastly a Thompson sub-machine  gun.

excuse me?  :o ???

My toys:

MTs: Surge (2x), Skeletool CX, Rebar, Blast, Fuse, Micra, Squirt (3x), Wave, Crunch, Mini, Spirit (2x), Pro Scout, MP700 (2x), Diesel, Powerlock, PowerPlier (2x), PocketPowerPlier, Blacktip , ST6 (2x), 5WR, A100

SAKs: Bantam, Executive, Ambassador, Minichamp, Classic Alox, Champion, Farmer, Explorer, Swisschamp, Golf Tool, Wenger Champ, EVO 52, Pocket Tool Chest
Global Moderator Zombie Apprentice Posts: 18,092
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #50 on: December 04, 2017, 03:16:47 PM »
@ ironraven.   :tu:

Just today on the news it was announced to have a evacuation plan in place for wild fires.  This is the most likely scenario I face and have faced.  No bugging out for us here in SoCal.  The more likely situation will be going to a family members or friends as long as they weren't evacuated.  The other situation would be to go to a evacuation site.  My plan is have what I need to be self sustaining for a week.  A bag simply wont do.  NOW that being said if all I grabbed was my bag(s) I've discussed a hand cart to transport them.  I would be ok in a evacuation site but I'd prefer to "camp" nearby. 

I do believe however ironraven pretty much summed up what I feel about these bags and those that go on video showing the contents. 


Esse Quam Videri
No Life Club Posts: 1,804 I have a small selection of disparate tools
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2017, 09:04:21 PM »
Great thread Lynn  :like:

It is never too late to be what you might have been - George Eliot
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 7,428 I'm blue!
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2017, 09:56:11 PM »
Great thread Lynn  :like:

+1 and funny too.

IMO  many Youtube prepping vids are not about prepping at all. They´re about making money. The Prepper Princess is right. You don´t need tons of stuff. Food, water, and protection against the weather are the most important.

Of course I do carry tons of stuff myself, but that´s for fun.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 09:58:00 PM by Ronald Schröder »

No Life Club Posts: 3,389
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #53 on: December 04, 2017, 10:18:55 PM »
You don´t need tons of stuff.

I agree.

Quote
Food, water, and protection against the weather are the most important.

I (sort of) disagree.

For the most likely scenarios for me having to leave quickly, for instance if the block I'm living in started burning, industrial accident, etc, the most important would be credit card, ID, and the digital copies of my grades and certifications (I have off-site encrypted copies of those anyway, but that's exactly because they are valuable). I live in a small city, shelter isn't a problem as long as you salvage ID and means of payment... Or, the tool for shelter isn't a tarp, it's a credit card (till the insurance company comes through). But, you need to live after the first 72 hrs as well. Same thing for the nasty scenarios where you end up a refugee: You need the building blocks for reassembling a life.

Now we're talking the depressing scenarios, those which are really no fun planning for, but are rather more likely than the invasion of the flesh-eating sheep.

I'll echo what Ironraven said earlier, the most important part is planning.
No Life Club Posts: 3,389
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #54 on: December 04, 2017, 10:34:09 PM »
... and I think the above probably is the most depressing post I've ever written for MT.o.
Hero Member Posts: 608
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2017, 10:35:59 PM »





but are rather more likely than the invasion of the flesh-eating sheep.



wait you are saying thats less likely but possible? :ahhh im replacing my bug out bag with a bug out tank asap :D

I like what the lady on the video said about learning from poeple who actually deal with real situations, on that note one could wonder how people managed to survive in the wilderness, deal with emergencies before cool tactical gear for every possible thing was invented  :think:

Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,392
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2017, 10:39:48 PM »
Now we're talking the depressing scenarios, those which are really no fun planning for, but are rather more likely than the invasion of the flesh-eating sheep.

:ahhh  :ahhh  :ahhh  :ahhh  :ahhh  :ahhh  :ahhh  :ahhh  :ahhh  :ahhh  :ahhh  :ahhh  :ahhh  :ahhh  :ahhh  :ahhh  :ahhh  :ahhh

No Life Club Posts: 3,389
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2017, 10:40:51 PM »
Syncop8r beat me to it. :D
Absolutely No Life Club Posts: 6,392
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2017, 10:42:24 PM »
I haven't actually seen it yet, looks pretty funny.

No Life Club Posts: 3,389
Re: Things I hate in 'Bug Out Bags', or... How to Start an Argument
« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2017, 10:44:21 PM »
I've seen it, I prefer the Peter Jackson splat fests, but it has its fun moments. :)

 

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