Quote from: styx on December 01, 2017, 02:06:10 PMCan someone explain one other thing - why are some people spending very big sums of money (let us say over $500 or €500, depending on where we are) on backpacks that weight more than the contents of the bag put together (especially those 120liter "backpack" that requires a frame and straps and a hip belt which are all sold separately) but then count grams on eating utensils, folding knives (the back up for a fixed blade), fixed blade knives (have to be light to strike fast ) and just about everything else with the exception of a wool blanket which is often in itself heavier than most well rounded sleep systems of equal warmth can be?Beats me about the packs. I just use an old ALICE pack I got for 25 bucks. Has a frame, light weight and tough as nails.I do like wools blankets. But I use them when it is warmer and I don't need a bulky -30 sleeping bag.If done right, even with wool blankets and older gear that is heavier, the pack with everything in it should only weigh about 25 to 30 pounds at most. Give or take on the climate. Food and water is about the only thing that should really start to weigh the pack down. And that is just for camping. A BOB or 72 hour or what the hell ever they are called now will have more in it. But of course, it is a totally different situation. You may have kids with you or other factors. I have said in a another thread before, people are really over thinking this anymore and are just going at each other. The thing is, it is you who is going to be using the bag and make the bag according to you skills and the things you like or are used to and make it to fit you needs.
Can someone explain one other thing - why are some people spending very big sums of money (let us say over $500 or €500, depending on where we are) on backpacks that weight more than the contents of the bag put together (especially those 120liter "backpack" that requires a frame and straps and a hip belt which are all sold separately) but then count grams on eating utensils, folding knives (the back up for a fixed blade), fixed blade knives (have to be light to strike fast ) and just about everything else with the exception of a wool blanket which is often in itself heavier than most well rounded sleep systems of equal warmth can be?
Quote from: styx on December 01, 2017, 02:06:10 PMCan someone explain one other thing - why are some people spending very big sums of money (let us say over $500 or €500, depending on where we are) on backpacks that weight more than the contents of the bag put together (especially those 120liter "backpack" that requires a frame and straps and a hip belt which are all sold separately) but then count grams on eating utensils, folding knives (the back up for a fixed blade), fixed blade knives (have to be light to strike fast ) and just about everything else with the exception of a wool blanket which is often in itself heavier than most well rounded sleep systems of equal warmth can be?I cannot talk about other people... but I own two EVOC backpacks (10 & 20L). They are both fairly heavy and fairly expensive. They are heavy due to the many pockets on the inside, letting you organize stuff (Ok, the 20L is also heavy because it has a back protector built in, not the worst idea when you cycle on icy roads).CON- Heavy- ExpensivePRO- Excellent quality and waterproof (the 20L has a built in water cover)- The many pockets/sleeves let you organize your gear for easy access and saves you some weight as you don't need additional organizers like a Maxpedition pouch.- They are small (as opposed to wide) allowing you to move unhindered in crowdsAnd yeah, if I can find equivalent/better gear that is lighter, I go for it. I have to carry it all the time.If you are talking about those ridiculous "tactical" backpacks with molle webbing (which no one uses but adds tons of weight) all over... I have no idea
Sure the new packs might have bells and whistles, but an old Alice pack will do the job and won't be an eyesore.
Quote from: styx on December 04, 2017, 10:54:30 PMSure the new packs might have bells and whistles, but an old Alice pack will do the job and won't be an eyesore.No, but they will give you a backsore. External frames? Horrible. Ancient technology that puts the weight on your back instead of your hips. Yuck. Never going near one again.
Quote from: ducttapetech on December 01, 2017, 02:19:44 PMQuote from: styx on December 01, 2017, 02:06:10 PMCan someone explain one other thing - why are some people spending very big sums of money (let us say over $500 or €500, depending on where we are) on backpacks that weight more than the contents of the bag put together (especially those 120liter "backpack" that requires a frame and straps and a hip belt which are all sold separately) but then count grams on eating utensils, folding knives (the back up for a fixed blade), fixed blade knives (have to be light to strike fast ) and just about everything else with the exception of a wool blanket which is often in itself heavier than most well rounded sleep systems of equal warmth can be?Beats me about the packs. I just use an old ALICE pack I got for 25 bucks. Has a frame, light weight and tough as nails.I do like wools blankets. But I use them when it is warmer and I don't need a bulky -30 sleeping bag.If done right, even with wool blankets and older gear that is heavier, the pack with everything in it should only weigh about 25 to 30 pounds at most. Give or take on the climate. Food and water is about the only thing that should really start to weigh the pack down. And that is just for camping. A BOB or 72 hour or what the hell ever they are called now will have more in it. But of course, it is a totally different situation. You may have kids with you or other factors. I have said in a another thread before, people are really over thinking this anymore and are just going at each other. The thing is, it is you who is going to be using the bag and make the bag according to you skills and the things you like or are used to and make it to fit you needs.That's what I've been saying for about a decade now. Sure the new packs might have bells and whistles, but an old Alice pack will do the job and won't be an eyesore. Now I don't have anything against a bit of extra weight but if I'm willing to take heavy items when there are alternatives that are lighter, just as good and oddly in the same price range then I certainly shouldn't be taking compromises on the rest of the gear. A plastic spoon is maybe 3 grams, a spoon from my kitchen is about 24. Sure I'd save 21 grams but if I'm willing to not save 1200 with other choices, then those 21 grams aren't that big of a deal.Quote from: Etherealicer on December 01, 2017, 02:24:01 PMQuote from: styx on December 01, 2017, 02:06:10 PMCan someone explain one other thing - why are some people spending very big sums of money (let us say over $500 or €500, depending on where we are) on backpacks that weight more than the contents of the bag put together (especially those 120liter "backpack" that requires a frame and straps and a hip belt which are all sold separately) but then count grams on eating utensils, folding knives (the back up for a fixed blade), fixed blade knives (have to be light to strike fast ) and just about everything else with the exception of a wool blanket which is often in itself heavier than most well rounded sleep systems of equal warmth can be?I cannot talk about other people... but I own two EVOC backpacks (10 & 20L). They are both fairly heavy and fairly expensive. They are heavy due to the many pockets on the inside, letting you organize stuff (Ok, the 20L is also heavy because it has a back protector built in, not the worst idea when you cycle on icy roads).CON- Heavy- ExpensivePRO- Excellent quality and waterproof (the 20L has a built in water cover)- The many pockets/sleeves let you organize your gear for easy access and saves you some weight as you don't need additional organizers like a Maxpedition pouch.- They are small (as opposed to wide) allowing you to move unhindered in crowdsAnd yeah, if I can find equivalent/better gear that is lighter, I go for it. I have to carry it all the time.If you are talking about those ridiculous "tactical" backpacks with molle webbing (which no one uses but adds tons of weight) all over... I have no idea I was talking about the tactical backpacks.
It is great for hunting and I can get the stuff at a military surplus store for a fraction of the cost than what Real Tree and Mossy Oak stuff is going for. I do wish some of the tactical stuff would come in different colors so it does not look so tactical. Some of the stuff is very versatile and practical.
Quote from: Etherealicer on December 05, 2017, 10:39:16 AMI virtually see no benefit to camo/tactical clothing/gear.It is great for hunting and I can get the stuff at a military surplus store for a fraction of the cost than what Real Tree and Mossy Oak stuff is going for. I do wish some of the tactical stuff would come in different colors so it does not look so tactical. Some of the stuff is very versatile and practical.
I virtually see no benefit to camo/tactical clothing/gear.
Quote from: ducttapetech on December 05, 2017, 11:23:25 AMQuote from: Etherealicer on December 05, 2017, 10:39:16 AMI virtually see no benefit to camo/tactical clothing/gear.It is great for hunting and I can get the stuff at a military surplus store for a fraction of the cost than what Real Tree and Mossy Oak stuff is going for. I do wish some of the tactical stuff would come in different colors so it does not look so tactical. Some of the stuff is very versatile and practical.A lot of military equipment is rugged and well made. I too try to find less "tactical" stuff.
On an aside, still looking for a good cordage option. I find paracord expensive and slippy in knots and don't want tarred line. I saw mention of baling twine. Anyone ever used it?
Quote from: pomsbz on December 05, 2017, 02:35:09 PMOn an aside, still looking for a good cordage option. I find paracord expensive and slippy in knots and don't want tarred line. I saw mention of baling twine. Anyone ever used it?Jute twine is great. Also makes a great fire starter. Baling twine is ok too, but after a few uses use need a new piece. Also makes for great fire starter, but be careful, it is treated to keep bugs and mice away.
Quote from: ducttapetech on December 05, 2017, 02:53:30 PMQuote from: pomsbz on December 05, 2017, 02:35:09 PMOn an aside, still looking for a good cordage option. I find paracord expensive and slippy in knots and don't want tarred line. I saw mention of baling twine. Anyone ever used it?Jute twine is great. Also makes a great fire starter. Baling twine is ok too, but after a few uses use need a new piece. Also makes for great fire starter, but be careful, it is treated to keep bugs and mice away.Jute is bulky for the strength you get. I don't mind re-usability problems, why would treatment against bugs be a problem? Does it out gas dangerously or something?
On an aside, still looking for a good cordage option.
Quote from: pomsbz on December 05, 2017, 02:35:09 PMOn an aside, still looking for a good cordage option. Dyneema cord. Expensive but pretty strong and it doesn't slip. It still can break at the knots, though.Another option would be marine use cords. Those things are tough
I think someone got the idea from my original post that I hate sporks. I don't. I hate short handled eating utensils, and unpolished bowls. The long-handled polished TOAKS sporks are fine, IMO.Just to be clear.
I actually really like my Ti LMF spork. A full spoon and fork on either end. Zero compromises and pleasant to eat with.