Dating Explorer

[RF52]

Can someone help me figure out what year or close to when my Explorer was built? It has the grey plastic on the magnifier. Any thoughts will be much appreciated

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[jazzbass]

c. 1986-1991. Take a picture of the inside of the knife with all the tools open and I can tell you whether it falls more towards one end of that range or the other.

[ThundahBeagle]

Overall, I concur with JazzBass because:

-Tang stamp Rostfrei
-Tang stamp with crossbow
-Corkscrew with groove
-Snap-ring loop seems to be made from a shim as opposed to integrated as part of a back spring
-He is probably more well versed in the magnifying glass dating

However, I am curious to know...when you open the bottle opener/ larger screw driver, if you experience a half-stop, then this dating Is even more solid.

If there is no half- stop, it is probably Pre-1986.

Also, check the awl. If there is no thread sewing eye present, then it generally could be older - older than 1974 maybe- but a lot of folks have done a lot of work dating just by the magnifying lenses and its housing, so, again, I defer to JazzBass on that

[ThundahBeagle]

RF-

I carried around my 30 year old Super Tinker without scales for a while, too. I kind of  liked it. Nothing to shatter if dropped. Makes it a bit thinner...I wish they would just make the outside liner a little thicker, and engraved the cross and shield on it. I'd carry that around proudly. Even better than AloX

[RF52]

Thanks! I will take some more photos tomorrow as it's getting late here now.

The only reason it does'nt have scales is because the old ones were really worn and cracked so I'm making new ones from a piece of wood

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[twiliter]

Overall, I concur with JazzBass because:

-Tang stamp Rostfrei
-Tang stamp with crossbow
-Corkscrew with groove
-Snap-ring loop seems to be made from a shim as opposed to integrated as part of a back spring
-He is probably more well versed in the magnifying glass dating

However, I am curious to know...when you open the bottle opener/ larger screw driver, if you experience a half-stop, then this dating Is even more solid.

If there is no half- stop, it is probably Pre-1986.

Also, check the awl. If there is no thread sewing eye present, then it generally could be older - older than 1974 maybe- but a lot of folks have done a lot of work dating just by the magnifying lenses and its housing, so, again, I defer to JazzBass on that

Large V on 4 line tang is '86 on, and no hook is '91 and earlier. So '86-'91 or  to JB. 

I was going to recommend dressing warmly, because explorers usually want to go somewhere cold, like the Arctic or high mountains, or outer space. 

[RF52]

c. 1986-1991. Take a picture of the inside of the knife with all the tools open and I can tell you whether it falls more towards one end of that range or the other.

Does this picture work?

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[Fortytwo]

c. 1986-1991. Take a picture of the inside of the knife with all the tools open and I can tell you whether it falls more towards one end of that range or the other.

Does this picture work? (Image removed from quote.)

Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk

I think he wanted pictures where the tools are visible. Slight changes in the tools are the most common ways of dating the knives. Some people around here have their own extensive lists of signs but there's this site for the rest of us: http://victorinox.metodi.me/91mmtools.php

[Don Pablo]

c. 1986-1991. Take a picture of the inside of the knife with all the tools open and I can tell you whether it falls more towards one end of that range or the other.

Does this picture work? (Image removed from quote.)

Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk

I think he wanted pictures where the tools are visible. Slight changes in the tools are the most common ways of dating the knives. Some people around here have their own extensive lists of signs but there's this site for the rest of us: http://victorinox.metodi.me/91mmtools.php

Don't forget Huntsman's version, said to be more accurate. 
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,51872.msg1104586.html#msg1104586
And read the rest of the topic for some revisions by El Corkscrew.

[RF52]

Thanks for the help guys And thanks to your links and threads I can do some research myself also Is it the same for the Pioneer alox too, or is that a whole different story? I have one that I got after my great grandfather, and it could be fun to know how old that one is too.

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[jazzbass]

Large V on 4 line tang is '86 on, and no hook is '91 and earlier. So '86-'91 or  to JB. 

Bingo. Large V sets the start date, no hook sets the end date. The only other clues you can get for this knife in this time period is by looking at the backsprings. Thus...

(Image removed from quote.)

Perfect - exactly what I wanted to see. This knife definitely comes from the later end of the 86-91 time frame, so let's say 88-91. The thing to look at here is the mag/phillips backspring. Look at this picture I took of some of my knives:



From L-R are a mid 1970s Explorer, a 1987 Battle of St Jakob Passenger, and a mid 1990s Explorer. These show all the changes to the mag backspring that happened during the 1980s. On the left is the original flat backspring. You can see (blue arrow) how it goes under the inner pin and doesn't really support it at all. Victorinox decided that unsupported design could lead to the knife being "pinched" when the 4th pin was peened, so in the early 1980s they added a little round brass spacer around the 4th pin to help support the layer better (middle knife, green arrow). This brass spacer lasts until the late 80s (you can see it here on a 1987 dated knife) until they redesign the entire mag backspring to look like the one on the right. This one has a bump built into the spring to proved the internal support without the need for a spacer (red arrow).

BTW, they also changed the scissors backspring around this time as well. Note the very tip of the older scissor spring is flat (yellow arrow) and the newer spring has a small bump (orange arrow). This change happens around 1987/88 as well. The scissor spring is then redesigned again in 1991 to incorporate the hook.

[RF52]

Large V on 4 line tang is '86 on, and no hook is '91 and earlier. So '86-'91 or  to JB. 

Bingo. Large V sets the start date, no hook sets the end date. The only other clues you can get for this knife in this time period is by looking at the backsprings. Thus...

(Image removed from quote.)

Perfect - exactly what I wanted to see. This knife definitely comes from the later end of the 86-91 time frame, so let's say 88-91. The thing to look at here is the mag/phillips backspring. Look at this picture I took of some of my knives:

(Image removed from quote.)

From L-R are a mid 1970s Explorer, a 1987 Battle of St Jakob Passenger, and a mid 1990s Explorer. These show all the changes to the mag backspring that happened during the 1980s. On the left is the original flat backspring. You can see (blue arrow) how it goes under the inner pin and doesn't really support it at all. Victorinox decided that unsupported design could lead to the knife being "pinched" when the 4th pin was peened, so in the early 1980s they added a little round brass spacer around the 4th pin to help support the layer better (middle knife, green arrow). This brass spacer lasts until the late 80s (you can see it here on a 1987 dated knife) until they redesign the entire mag backspring to look like the one on the right. This one has a bump built into the spring to proved the internal support without the need for a spacer (red arrow).

BTW, they also changed the scissors backspring around this time as well. Note the very tip of the older scissor spring is flat (yellow arrow) and the newer spring has a small bump (orange arrow). This change happens around 1987/88 as well. The scissor spring is then redesigned again in 1991 to incorporate the hook.

Thanks! The knowledge in this forum is awlsome so that means my Explorer is as old as me or close at least. I got it from my dad when I was a kid, so I knew it was "old" but not how old. Much appreciated everyone!

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[FolderBeholder]

(Image removed from quote.)

I sure enjoyed reading that background information.  Thank you JB!
It seems to me that your photo shows some variation in Phillips screwdriver tips.  Not sure if it's my eyes, but each of those tips look different. 

[Fortytwo]

[Cut for brevity.]

Some next level dating there! I knew you were good at this but I'm impressed anyway!

[Don Pablo]

[Cut for brevity.]

Some next level dating there! I knew you were good at this but I'm impressed anyway!

+1! 
I didn't know these nuggets of information about the scissor spring and mag layer spring either, thanks! 

[ThundahBeagle]

Overall, I concur with JazzBass because:

-Tang stamp Rostfrei
-Tang stamp with crossbow
-Corkscrew with groove
-Snap-ring loop seems to be made from a shim as opposed to integrated as part of a back spring
-He is probably more well versed in the magnifying glass dating

However, I am curious to know...when you open the bottle opener/ larger screw driver, if you experience a half-stop, then this dating Is even more solid.

If there is no half- stop, it is probably Pre-1986.

Also, check the awl. If there is no thread sewing eye present, then it generally could be older - older than 1974 maybe- but a lot of folks have done a lot of work dating just by the magnifying lenses and its housing, so, again, I defer to JazzBass on that

Large V on 4 line tang is '86 on, and no hook is '91 and earlier. So '86-'91 or  to JB. 

I was going to recommend dressing warmly, because explorers usually want to go somewhere cold, like the Arctic or high mountains, or outer space. 

Right, right. Forgot about the Large V...Thanks for that

[ThundahBeagle]

Large V on 4 line tang is '86 on, and no hook is '91 and earlier. So '86-'91 or  to JB. 

Bingo. Large V sets the start date, no hook sets the end date. The only other clues you can get for this knife in this time period is by looking at the backsprings. Thus...

(Image removed from quote.)

Perfect - exactly what I wanted to see. This knife definitely comes from the later end of the 86-91 time frame, so let's say 88-91. The thing to look at here is the mag/phillips backspring. Look at this picture I took of some of my knives:

(Image removed from quote.)

From L-R are a mid 1970s Explorer, a 1987 Battle of St Jakob Passenger, and a mid 1990s Explorer. These show all the changes to the mag backspring that happened during the 1980s. On the left is the original flat backspring. You can see (blue arrow) how it goes under the inner pin and doesn't really support it at all. Victorinox decided that unsupported design could lead to the knife being "pinched" when the 4th pin was peened, so in the early 1980s they added a little round brass spacer around the 4th pin to help support the layer better (middle knife, green arrow). This brass spacer lasts until the late 80s (you can see it here on a 1987 dated knife) until they redesign the entire mag backspring to look like the one on the right. This one has a bump built into the spring to proved the internal support without the need for a spacer (red arrow).

BTW, they also changed the scissors backspring around this time as well. Note the very tip of the older scissor spring is flat (yellow arrow) and the newer spring has a small bump (orange arrow). This change happens around 1987/88 as well. The scissor spring is then redesigned again in 1991 to incorporate the hook.

Thanks for the scissors back spring internal details. Now I I'll have to check my Super Tinker. I know about when I bought it, but that doesn't mean it wasn't on the shelf a while first...

[ThundahBeagle]

Amazing details, Jazz. Thanks

[El Corkscrew]

 

[Huntsman]

........
Bingo. Large V sets the start date, no hook sets the end date. The only other clues you can get for this knife in this time period is by looking at the backsprings. Thus...
........
Perfect - exactly what I wanted to see. This knife definitely comes from the later end of the 86-91 time frame, so let's say 88-91. The thing to look at here is the mag/phillips backspring. Look at this picture I took of some of my knives:
.........

JB - This level of detail is insane - You never cease to amaze me - And thanks so much for always sharing your knowledge
How do you even spot these super-subtle changes?    - Never mind dating them all   
Going to go and look at all my mag glass knives when I get home   

Although I think I had spotted the wee bump/lack of bump on a scissor spring once - then completely forgot abouit it !!

And re the dating sheet (Pabs Reply #8) - New version to be published soon with El CS updates 

[Don Pablo]

How old do I say is my modded frankenSAK, which is made with parts from an early 80's Explorer (from Mags), scissor spring, hook, scales, some liners and spacers from syph(all modern) and the saw from a modern Hiker bought in 2015. 

[Barry Rowland]

Phenomenal education JB!!  It's amazing how these knives keep evolving.

[Huntsman]

Well I checked and I am very very happy ........ Why   
Well as someone who collects, and is interested in the tool evolution, I have discovered I have one of each pin/spring type that JB identified!      
Not that I ever even realised until now   

• The first is on an old Champion from the late 70s. Sure enough you can see the pin with a big gaps around it - looking a bit vulnerable.
  
• The second is on a first edition SwissChamp from 85. You can see the wee washer/sleeve – which, btw,  is also on the pliers layer
• Then next just a year or so later on another SwissChamp with the second edition pliers – You can see the new spring – for both layers !!
  

PS. This sort of info I would expect to be discovered by a modder who pulls SAKs apart - But I don't think that is you, is it JB?   Amazing observation!

[AlephZero]

JB always has the best info, You cant beat JazzBass

information

information

information

you wont get it

by hook or by crook we will

[Doc1911]

Reportedly, Vic changed the easily scratched 5x plastic lens (from 2004) back to a 6x glass lens, in the same clear housing, in 2012. Any way to tell from the packaging if one is getting the post-2012 version? Considering the volume of production, I can easily imagine getting the plastic lens version from old stock.  I much prefer the gray housing 8x magnifier in my 1978 Explorer.

Thanks,
Tim
 

[VoetSak]

I don't think you will be able to tell much from the packaging as model numbers did not change.

[kamakiri]

Can someone help me figure out what year or close to when my Explorer was built? It has the grey plastic on the magnifier. Any thoughts will be much appreciated (Image removed from quote.)(Image removed from quote.)(Image removed from quote.)

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It’s from ‘90-‘91. Because of the non-anodized liners as the early limit and the lack of hook for the late limit.