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Farewell to the USA diesel

us Offline Spartan19

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Farewell to the USA diesel
on: January 13, 2018, 02:32:09 AM
I was looking on the Gerber site the other day, and noticed the diesel wasn't listed under the USA made list. I had a bad feeling about that, and contacted the company, and sure enough, the Diesel has been moved overseas. That means that the Diesel that I have and the the ones you guys have are now among the last of the USA Diesels. Farewell to another Great American MT :salute:
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us Offline MusicMen

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #1 on: January 13, 2018, 05:36:16 AM
Well that isn’t good news.   :td:
BUCK: X-Tract, 360
GERBER: Clutch, Shortcut, Dime*, DimE*, Octane & Crucial FAST
MP600 NN, CentreDrive, Grappler
Diesel*, Nickle*, Bullrush, MP600 BN, Flik & MP600DET* all in BO
LEATHERMAN: Skeletool, Style PS, CS, ES* & Style*, Juice S2(X2), SC2, C2, Pro, XE6
Crunch, MTO Style CS, Sideclip, BO Kick*
SOG: PowerAccess, Blacktip*, HD PPP
VICTORINOX: SwissTool Std, X(CS), & RS all with red logo, Spirit XBS
*=mod


us Offline ChrisEDC247

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #2 on: January 13, 2018, 06:25:18 AM
I hope we don't see the MP600/400 series go overseas. Shame I've always thought the diesel was interesting but never grabbed one. Are the tools interchangeable with the 600? I might use that saw blade instead of the U-shank blade exchanger.


scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #3 on: January 13, 2018, 11:10:43 AM
Sorry to say, but the Diesel always felt a little less well finished to me when compared to the MP400/600.  Not awful or anything, but just a step down.  I wonder if they weren't selling well?  Just thinking about the end product; if we can see the quality maintained and the price go down (to help bump sales) then it's good for the end user.  Of course I might just be trying to feel optimistic.
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scotland Offline Gareth

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #4 on: January 13, 2018, 11:12:05 AM
I hope we don't see the MP600/400 series go overseas. Shame I've always thought the diesel was interesting but never grabbed one. Are the tools interchangeable with the 600? I might use that saw blade instead of the U-shank blade exchanger.

I'm sure that's been done before and I think it should be a straight swap.  :)
 
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cy Offline dks

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #5 on: January 13, 2018, 01:03:59 PM
as seen with the LM California case a few years ago, maybe they are just using e.g. screws made in China or Mexico etc., so they can not claim that it is US made.

As long as the quality is good and keeps Gerber in business then it is OK.
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es Offline ThePeacent

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #6 on: January 13, 2018, 01:09:17 PM
I really don't care about where a product is made as long as it's still quality and good value for the money,
but I've seen too many wrong moves by gerber and other companies sending production overseas, and I really hope this doesn't show on the newer Diesels  :P



It truly is one of my favorite Gerbers, addicting and super sexy looking, sleek and has a useful toolset   :tu:



and a good quality tool, maybe not as robust feeling as the MP600 but solid nonetheless
My toys:

MTs: Surge (2x), Skeletool CX, Rebar, Blast, Fuse, Micra, Squirt (3x), Wave, Crunch, Mini, Spirit (2x), Pro Scout, MP700 (2x), Diesel, Powerlock, PowerPlier (2x), PocketPowerPlier, Blacktip , ST6 (2x), 5WR, A100

SAKs: Bantam, Executive, Ambassador, Minichamp, Classic Alox, Champion, Farmer, Explorer, Swisschamp, Golf Tool, Wenger Champ, EVO 52, Pocket Tool Chest


cy Offline dks

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #7 on: January 13, 2018, 01:21:17 PM
Kelly: "Daddy, what makes men cheat on women?
Al : "Women!"

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us Offline sLaughterMed

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #8 on: January 14, 2018, 12:21:41 AM
I was always under the impression the Diesel was always made overseas... I guess not. That would explain why it's quality seemed better, but I figured that had more to do with the simplistic design more than anything else.
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us Offline Spartan19

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #9 on: January 14, 2018, 01:30:38 AM
I really don't care about where a product is made as long as it's still quality and good value for the money,
but I've seen too many wrong moves by gerber and other companies sending production overseas, and I really hope this doesn't show on the newer Diesels  :P

(Image removed from quote.)

It truly is one of my favorite Gerbers, addicting and super sexy looking, sleek and has a useful toolset   :tu:

(Image removed from quote.)

and a good quality tool, maybe not as robust feeling as the MP600 but solid nonetheless

Me too Peacent, I just hope it doesn't kill the tool, the Diesel was always one of my favorite mts, It's just hard not to think of it as an American made mt anymore
Send In the spartans


id Offline jaya_man

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #10 on: January 14, 2018, 03:12:29 AM
I thought they were already made overseas since its introduction. No made in USA stamping compared to the MP600


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us Offline WoodsDuck

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #11 on: January 14, 2018, 06:36:00 AM
I wasn't sure about the COO for the Diesel either. Also, why don't I have one?  :ahhh


us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #12 on: January 14, 2018, 07:59:28 AM
I thought they were already made overseas since its introduction. No made in USA stamping compared to the MP600


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I did as well. But, upon looking around, they were sold as "Global materials and American labor".
The newest MP400/600s don't have USA on them either. I think Gerber is either getting ready to end a lot of their US MT production or they have been told they could not label them USA when most/all the parts are made elsewhere.
The only tool marked USA they make currently seems to be the Center-Drive. The CD must meet the guidelines for advertising USA made.

I guess we'll see, at some point, what Gerber is up to soon.  :popcorn:

As far as some people saying that where a tool is made doesn't matter:
I have a differing point of view and I mean no offense to anyone who believes otherwise. BUT...
I personally do care where the MT is made...Kind of.... If it is made in a low production cost country, the price should be much much much lower. These companies (SOG and Gerber for example) should be selling tools for much less than they are if the tool costs a fourth as much to produce as it would in the US. Their prices on outsourced tools barely compete with US made MTs in cost vs. function. Example: A LM ST300 is $79. SOG Powerlock is $65. The LM is better in every way, except the pliers. The powerlock should be about $35 if you consider it is completely outsourced with no real updates/changes in over a decade.
I am an MT collector, so I pay the price for cool MTs(even ones I'd never carry, because they blow), but I believe tools made in the company's country of origin are almost always (if not always) superior to the outsourced stuff. Having over 100 MTs makes it easy to see the US made stuff is almost always better than the outsourced stuff. I would say with even more certainty, but I don't own EVERY big name MT...yet

Imagine the insane and unbridled uproar that would occur if Victorinox outsourced their production to China. ...yeah....it sucked when SOG did it and it sucks when Gerber does it. Outsourced tools just don't stack up to the real deal(crappy things just seem to happen when a company outsources). I have not seen anything to make me think differently yet. Even tools made to "specs" and "guidelines" just seem to fall short of the tools/knives a company used to make in their country of origin.
Quote from: gerleatherberman
CAKs don't equal SAKs(for you Vic fans) for example
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Please note: I have nothing against cheaper Chinese(or other low production cost country) MTs. I have lots of them. And I like a lot of them. They just don't stack up to high end MTs like LM, USA made Gerber, Bear & Son, Victorinox(Swiss), original USA SOG, etc. Not stacking up is fine...if the price is fair (ex. Ganzo, Henstrong and Workpro). Truth is: Gerber may move production of the Diesel, but they probably won't lower the price and the overall quality will suffer(this is from my experiences with MTs and MT collecting). ;)
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us Offline cody6268

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #13 on: January 14, 2018, 02:26:42 PM
I'm guessing it's mostly due to the fact that if so much of it's sourced from overseas (more than 30% if I'm not mistaken), they can't mark it USA. 

However, I don't think we won't see the MP600 go overseas thanks to the Berry Amendment, which states that everything issued to troops has to be made here. Thus, Gerber probably will continue to make the MP600 here to keep the military contract. After all, the reason Gerber started doing MTs was to beat Leatherman out of the contract.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 03:57:53 PM by cody6268 »


us Offline David Bowen

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #14 on: January 14, 2018, 03:38:50 PM
Being born and raised in the US I have country pride like anyone does. I would rather buy a tool or knife made here than anywhere else and pay slightly higher for it just so that company flourishes and continues to produce high quality products. I'm saddened that companies like SOG, Gerber, etc continue to invest in overseas production and quality control seems to be a continuing issue. SOG has come a long ways since the PowerDuo came out and their overseas production has gotten much better. I however feel it's never going to be equal to the older usa made powerlocks. I read this week that Shatt and Morgan are closing their doors for some restructuring or something and I made the comment how other companies have shut down and end up moving items to overseas to help them financially. It saddens me to read these stories, but with the cost of labor, production and other factors it makes sense. We are a dollar driven society and in the end the almighty dollar dictates the future business. All I can hope is that companies like SOG and Gerber keep as much local production as they can and continue to work on the production quality of those products they are making overseas.

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es Offline ThePeacent

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #15 on: January 14, 2018, 04:56:57 PM
I thought they were already made overseas since its introduction. No made in USA stamping compared to the MP600


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I personally do care where the MT is made...Kind of.... If it is made in a low production cost country, the price should be much much much lower.

I agree there, and, tow quote myself from early in this thread: "I really don't care about where a product is made as long as it's still quality and good value for the money," being the key part "Value for the money".

If they move overseas and production, materials, QC , tolerances or whatever else is set at lower point or quality price should follow accordingly.
I'm always looking for a good $/value ratio, being country of origin a secondary thing to consider, and if it comes from a cheaper place I expect it to be cheaper in cost and so cheaper in price to the buyer.

If quality is excellent, materials nice, detail and fit and finish and the tool overall shows that it's proudly made in the US, Switzerland or Spain, I'll gladly pay the additional cost of the tool to compensate for higher salaries, better materials, warranty etc.
My toys:

MTs: Surge (2x), Skeletool CX, Rebar, Blast, Fuse, Micra, Squirt (3x), Wave, Crunch, Mini, Spirit (2x), Pro Scout, MP700 (2x), Diesel, Powerlock, PowerPlier (2x), PocketPowerPlier, Blacktip , ST6 (2x), 5WR, A100

SAKs: Bantam, Executive, Ambassador, Minichamp, Classic Alox, Champion, Farmer, Explorer, Swisschamp, Golf Tool, Wenger Champ, EVO 52, Pocket Tool Chest


us Offline gerleatherberman

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #16 on: January 14, 2018, 05:28:27 PM
I thought they were already made overseas since its introduction. No made in USA stamping compared to the MP600


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I personally do care where the MT is made...Kind of.... If it is made in a low production cost country, the price should be much much much lower.

I agree there, and, tow quote myself from early in this thread: "I really don't care about where a product is made as long as it's still quality and good value for the money," being the key part "Value for the money".

If they move overseas and production, materials, QC , tolerances or whatever else is set at lower point or quality price should follow accordingly.
I'm always looking for a good $/value ratio, being country of origin a secondary thing to consider, and if it comes from a cheaper place I expect it to be cheaper in cost and so cheaper in price to the buyer.

If quality is excellent, materials nice, detail and fit and finish and the tool overall shows that it's proudly made in the US, Switzerland or Spain, I'll gladly pay the additional cost of the tool to compensate for higher salaries, better materials, warranty etc.
Well stated! :cheers:
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cy Offline dks

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #17 on: January 14, 2018, 06:03:31 PM
As I usually say, blame the company not the country. - A computer controlled machine on the moon, can produce the same product as the same machine in the US or Germany (before  dieselgate) or China etc..
Even with "old school manufacturing" - Queen made products in the US, and had a lot of tradition (allegedly) in that but so does GEC a 12 year old company - Guess who made the better product and sold it at the right price. So, the right or wrong personnel can be found in every country - Some are not aware of what is or was made in another country now or centuries ago or for centuries.

If you are getting a bad product it is because your loving company, run and owned by your fellow countrymen is happy with that bad product and is happy to take your money for it.  E.g.,  I still have not seen an apology from SOG regarding the Powerduo, so they were happy and proud of the product. They very rarely pass any saving to the consumers, by the way.

People are always excusing the "mother" company, that is responsible for the product - including QA and QC blaming "overseas manufacturing".

As I said before, given the choice I would not give any money to anybody and only buy products I made - this is not possible.  Some will not buy from another city, due to rivalry, and many from another country, again due to rivalry. Some can buy most things made in their country (or largely made) some can not.
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us Offline LoopCutter

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #18 on: January 15, 2018, 01:27:51 AM
Diesel is a solid tool, it may have been assembled in the US, yet suspect parts from global sources. 
Today handled a MP-400 and that was what was on the package. 

Since Gerber is owned by Fiskars several products are global are mixed label depending on country being sold.  May even be control by retailer who has on shelf. 


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gb Offline tosh

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #19 on: January 15, 2018, 07:30:00 PM
Well I sensed it coming, hence why I grabbed the missing two a few weeks back (Camo and SS) to join the BO I already had...phew!!  :whistle: close call.
As others have mentioned, It's Gerber who are costcutting here, SOG do it as do Leatherman. I rekon there'll be a whole lot more moved to overseas production. It's the reason why I don't follow the modern stuff much.
Are we taking bets who's next?



« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 07:35:45 PM by tosh »
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us Offline Spartan19

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Re: Farewell to the USA diesel
Reply #20 on: January 16, 2018, 12:29:32 AM
Yeah it's a shame. I have always felt an obligation to carry tools made in my country when I can. I love my opinels and SAKs, but I always have a place in my pocket or on my belt for an American blade. :cheers:
Send In the spartans


 

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