Hawaii- What would you have done?

[Fuzzbucket]

After this tweet came out I have a hell of a lot more sympathy for the poor guy who sent the message out! Talk about a rubbish interface

https://twitter.com/CivilBeat/status/953127542050795520?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Farstechnica.com%2Finformation-technology%2F2018%2F01%2Fthe-interface-to-send-out-a-missile-alert-in-hawaii-is-as-expected-quite-bad%2F

That was rubbish - and worse yet, that is supposed to be used in a real stressful situation. The potential for error the other way with that interface is there too, and that would be even worse.

That's just nuts!!!

[Vidar]

Mags has got a submarine... although he's been a bit quiet about the fact...?

Is he trying to settle down?

[Don Pablo]

After this tweet came out I have a hell of a lot more sympathy for the poor guy who sent the message out! Talk about a rubbish interface

https://twitter.com/CivilBeat/status/953127542050795520?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Farstechnica.com%2Finformation-technology%2F2018%2F01%2Fthe-interface-to-send-out-a-missile-alert-in-hawaii-is-as-expected-quite-bad%2F

That was rubbish - and worse yet, that is supposed to be used in a real stressful situation. The potential for error the other way with that interface is there too, and that would be even worse.

That's just nuts!!!

Badly thought out. 

[Smashie]

It looks very much to me like a proof of concept that some manager has signed off on with the words 'we'll fix it in production'. Of course that doesn't happen because the money is spent elsewhere.

I feel quite sorry for the guy who did this now.

[ThundahBeagle]

You are on Hawaii. If the warhead is nuclear, I'm guessing you are not going anywhere near safe enough, near fast enough.

I guess I find that one hot hula dancer who has always caught my eye at the luaus and see if she's amenable to "Netflix & chill" with me.

Or, try to find Magnum PI' s mansion and ride it out there.

Preferably a combination of the two.

[ThundahBeagle]

You know those new in the box, or new in the package SAKs and multitools in the back of that drawer that you hardly ever go into except to stash another shiny new knife or tool?  C'mon,, we all have that drawer.  Well, if the bombs are coming I'm opening them.  Every last one.

I like it. And open the blade so you get your smudgy finger prints on them

[ThundahBeagle]

After this tweet came out I have a hell of a lot more sympathy for the poor guy who sent the message out! Talk about a rubbish interface

https://twitter.com/CivilBeat/status/953127542050795520?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Farstechnica.com%2Finformation-technology%2F2018%2F01%2Fthe-interface-to-send-out-a-missile-alert-in-hawaii-is-as-expected-quite-bad%2F

That was rubbish - and worse yet, that is supposed to be used in a real stressful situation. The potential for error the other way with that interface is there too, and that would be even worse.

I'm in IT, and I say it all the time. Nothing beats a nice comforting physical switch. I don't want an iPad in my dashboard - give me gauges and needles. Imagine he had a covered aircraft switch, and only the red button meant the real thing. And that there was a second person running through the process on the same equipment, over his shoulder, and they both had to agree before a button was pushed.

Links. They all sort of look the same. Same color scheme and a bunch of text.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I'm sorry but the techno-engineering nerd on me can't just accept all these answers as valid, given the possibility of so many different scenarios.

What is the bomb's yield? 10 kilotons? 100? 1 Megaton?
Is it a common ICBM attack, a MIRV (Multiple warheads), a cruiser missile with a small sized nuclear artifact?
Is it aimed at a city center, at a military base, an airport?
Detonation is planned to be high altitude, above-the-ground?
Do I have buildings, mountains or cover between the blast and me?
Do I have a basement, a shelter nearby, a cement and sturdily built place to go, or my house i made of thin wood walls and there's nothing solid in the neighborhood?

 
So many possible outcomes, that is without having the time running out and other factors in consideration! 

That's part of the problem- the warning doesn't tell you where, when, what type or anything.  It's just a plain warning saying that something is going to hit somewhere nearby in the next few minutes to the next few hours.

As for buildings, mountains, basements etc.... you would know better than I would what is available to you locally....   

Def

[ironraven]

I'm sorry but the techno-engineering nerd on me can't just accept all these answers as valid, given the possibility of so many different scenarios.

Fair enough. My answer is based on the theory I've had since I was a little kid and living right under a SAC flight path. It is better to be fallout than to breath fallout.

I don't remember what set them off, but I remember the evening the put up ALL the ready bombers, then the tankers, then their escorts up. I was outside, my mother wanted me to come with her to the basement. I think that was the first time I spooked her- I ask very simply, "does it matter?"

[Smashie]

As Grant said, it's the unknowns that are the problem.

So lets break it down;

1. Will it get there?
   Based on past performance, probably not

2. Accuracy if it does arrive?
   See the above answer

3. What yield?
   Who knows? they are new at this and are not getting it right to the degree that the rest of the world has. Simply down to lack of experience

As North and South Korea are still technically (there’s a cease fire hence the DMZ on the border) at war and the Americans were involved (along with quite a few other countries as well, but that's inconvenient for their narrative). They will continue to posture against the US.
When the Korean war started originally there was a lot of support from the Soviet Union and the Peoples Republic of China. After the truce the relationships broke down. USSR didn't deal with PRC. The USSR didn't deal with DPRK. For information the relationship between USSR and PRC broke down in the 50's at some point.

PRC are still involved for the simple reason that they border DPRK on the Liaoning and Jilin provinces. If the PRC are seen to be actively helping DPRK the condemnation would be pretty swift and decisive.

Now you can look at the size of the respective military forces and PRC and DPRK have overwhelming numbers. But DPRK has a lack of logistical support for all their forces, i.e., food, fuel, bullets and bombs. Current thinking is that DPRK would be out of all of them in less than a week. There is no information I’ve seen in the last couple of years that the PRC would want to get to involved. PRC are economic expansionists, not military.

If this comes across as political, it’s not, I served in Her Majesty’s armed forces and then used what I learned to concentrate on risks wherever they were for many years after.

Kim Jong Un may try to go nuclear, but it’s highly unlikely it would work, he would be isolated and the US wouldn't need to retaliate with nukes. They could do it with air power alone.

The people for the DPRK know what kind of regime they live under and they know that the penalty of dissent is death, not just for them but their entire family. They wouldn't fight.

Peace

[Don Pablo]

I'm sorry but the techno-engineering nerd on me can't just accept all these answers as valid, given the possibility of so many different scenarios.

Fair enough. My answer is based on the theory I've had since I was a little kid and living right under a SAC flight path. It is better to be fallout than to breath fallout.

I don't remember what set them off, but I remember the evening the put up ALL the ready bombers, then the tankers, then their escorts up. I was outside, my mother wanted me to come with her to the basement. I think that was the first time I spooked her- I ask very simply, "does it matter?"

You can be very spooky at times.

[pfrsantos]

Mags has got a submarine... although he's been a bit quiet about the fact...?

Perhaps it's substandard.

...well... yeah obviously...

[pfrsantos]

I'd be just fine, if it hit here...

Show content

 

[ThundahBeagle]

As Grant said, it's the unknowns that are the problem.

So lets break it down;

1. Will it get there?
   Based on past performance, probably not

2. Accuracy if it does arrive?
   See the above answer

3. What yield?
   Who knows? they are new at this and are not getting it right to the degree that the rest of the world has. Simply down to lack of experience

As North and South Korea are still technically (there’s a cease fire hence the DMZ on the border) at war and the Americans were involved (along with quite a few other countries as well, but that's inconvenient for their narrative). They will continue to posture against the US.
When the Korean war started originally there was a lot of support from the Soviet Union and the Peoples Republic of China. After the truce the relationships broke down. USSR didn't deal with PRC. The USSR didn't deal with DPRK. For information the relationship between USSR and PRC broke down in the 50's at some point.

PRC are still involved for the simple reason that they border DPRK on the Liaoning and Jilin provinces. If the PRC are seen to be actively helping DPRK the condemnation would be pretty swift and decisive.

Now you can look at the size of the respective military forces and PRC and DPRK have overwhelming numbers. But DPRK has a lack of logistical support for all their forces, i.e., food, fuel, bullets and bombs. Current thinking is that DPRK would be out of all of them in less than a week. There is no information I’ve seen in the last couple of years that the PRC would want to get to involved. PRC are economic expansionists, not military.

If this comes across as political, it’s not, I served in Her Majesty’s armed forces and then used what I learned to concentrate on risks wherever they were for many years after.

Kim Jong Un may try to go nuclear, but it’s highly unlikely it would work, he would be isolated and the US wouldn't need to retaliate with nukes. They could do it with air power alone.

The people for the DPRK know what kind of regime they live under and they know that the penalty of dissent is death, not just for them but their entire family. They wouldn't fight.

Peace

Hi Smashie

Well thought out. Some friendly counter points...

1) those who have these nukes and missiles eventually are able to "get there." This might be that time. See China's own nuke missile acquisition work to this end 20 years ago

2) accuracy is less important with nukes due to radiation and fallout, as you know.

Agree #3

DPRK does not exist without PRC, period. They trade and Indeed China assists then with fuel oil, food, coal, etc, and probably missile technology as well, so they already are part of the problem. And must be part of the solution in whatever way that is reached. See my #1 above,  and recall the involvement of both China and USSR in Veit Nam even, so I believe your timeline is way way off or that these breakdowns in relations between them are not definitive. China mobilized during the Korean war as well.

DPRK does lack logistical support. However, with a million man army and hard training, they overrun the 30,000 strong US Army in no time at all. South Korean army -? I do not mean to trivialize them, but autofill, not enough. It would not take DPRK Long to take Seoul and thereafter have plenty to eat. Bullets? Take the 30,000 dead US soldier guns. That will be all you need once the US Army is dead.

"Current thinking" at the time was that Hitler had no further plans for expansion beyond Sudetenland...besides, China is far more aligned politically with DPRK than the US. DPRK May as well be called China, the Korean province. China has been using DPRK as the bad cop puppet to their good cop face.

If you think PRC would not get involved and is only economically expanding - not military, I respectfully submit that you ignore the events of the last 60 years, and the last 20 highlighted. Yes, economically expanding is China, however, 30 years ago they had no nukes, no missiles worth a tinker' s dam (see how I inserted a SAK into the conversation), no real air craft carriers or submarines to speak of, no space program, and they didn't own the Panama canal and were not yet building up reefs for use as military outposts. Also see recent claims of ownership of international waters and islands that belong to at least two other nations. China could also choose to get involved the way they and USSR have in the Korean war, and the Viet Nam conflict - surreptitiously sending troops, pilots, planes and supplies.

Current behaviors surrounding the upcoming Olympics seems very positive, then again there was an Olympics in Nazi Germany just ahead of the last big one. The economies of Europe and even the US were pretty strongly linked before world war 2 as well. So many thought, as you do, that war would not happen, or that it would be over quickly.

Personally, I'm rooting for you.

To paraphrase the fat man in The Maltese Falcon when he and Spade are discussing whether or not he might kill Spade. Spade knows where the black bird is and says that this is why fat man won't kill him. Fat man says that if Spade doesn't give him the falcon, well...in the heat of the moment, a man could sometimes forget where his best interests lie.

[Smashie]

As Grant said, it's the unknowns that are the problem.

So lets break it down;

1. Will it get there?
   Based on past performance, probably not

2. Accuracy if it does arrive?
   See the above answer

3. What yield?
   Who knows? they are new at this and are not getting it right to the degree that the rest of the world has. Simply down to lack of experience

As North and South Korea are still technically (there’s a cease fire hence the DMZ on the border) at war and the Americans were involved (along with quite a few other countries as well, but that's inconvenient for their narrative). They will continue to posture against the US.
When the Korean war started originally there was a lot of support from the Soviet Union and the Peoples Republic of China. After the truce the relationships broke down. USSR didn't deal with PRC. The USSR didn't deal with DPRK. For information the relationship between USSR and PRC broke down in the 50's at some point.

PRC are still involved for the simple reason that they border DPRK on the Liaoning and Jilin provinces. If the PRC are seen to be actively helping DPRK the condemnation would be pretty swift and decisive.

Now you can look at the size of the respective military forces and PRC and DPRK have overwhelming numbers. But DPRK has a lack of logistical support for all their forces, i.e., food, fuel, bullets and bombs. Current thinking is that DPRK would be out of all of them in less than a week. There is no information I’ve seen in the last couple of years that the PRC would want to get to involved. PRC are economic expansionists, not military.

If this comes across as political, it’s not, I served in Her Majesty’s armed forces and then used what I learned to concentrate on risks wherever they were for many years after.

Kim Jong Un may try to go nuclear, but it’s highly unlikely it would work, he would be isolated and the US wouldn't need to retaliate with nukes. They could do it with air power alone.

The people for the DPRK know what kind of regime they live under and they know that the penalty of dissent is death, not just for them but their entire family. They wouldn't fight.

Peace

Hi Smashie

Well thought out. Some friendly counter points...

1) those who have these nukes and missiles eventually are able to "get there." This might be that time. See China's own nuke missile acquisition work to this end 20 years ago

2) accuracy is less important with nukes due to radiation and fallout, as you know.

Agree #3

DPRK does not exist without PRC, period. They trade and Indeed China assists then with fuel oil, food, coal, etc, and probably missile technology as well, so they already are part of the problem. And must be part of the solution in whatever way that is reached. See my #1 above,  and recall the involvement of both China and USSR in Veit Nam even, so I believe your timeline is way way off or that these breakdowns in relations between them are not definitive. China mobilized during the Korean war as well.

DPRK does lack logistical support. However, with a million man army and hard training, they overrun the 30,000 strong US Army in no time at all. South Korean army -? I do not mean to trivialize them, but autofill, not enough. It would not take DPRK Long to take Seoul and thereafter have plenty to eat. Bullets? Take the 30,000 dead US soldier guns. That will be all you need once the US Army is dead.

"Current thinking" at the time was that Hitler had no further plans for expansion beyond Sudetenland...besides, China is far more aligned politically with DPRK than the US. DPRK May as well be called China, the Korean province. China has been using DPRK as the bad cop puppet to their good cop face.

If you think PRC would not get involved and is only economically expanding - not military, I respectfully submit that you ignore the events of the last 60 years, and the last 20 highlighted. Yes, economically expanding is China, however, 30 years ago they had no nukes, no missiles worth a tinker' s dam (see how I inserted a SAK into the conversation), no real air craft carriers or submarines to speak of, no space program, and they didn't own the Panama canal and were not yet building up reefs for use as military outposts. Also see recent claims of ownership of international waters and islands that belong to at least two other nations. China could also choose to get involved the way they and USSR have in the Korean war, and the Viet Nam conflict - surreptitiously sending troops, pilots, planes and supplies.

Current behaviors surrounding the upcoming Olympics seems very positive, then again there was an Olympics in Nazi Germany just ahead of the last big one. The economies of Europe and even the US were pretty strongly linked before world war 2 as well. So many thought, as you do, that war would not happen, or that it would be over quickly.

Personally, I'm rooting for you.

To paraphrase the fat man in The Maltese Falcon when he and Spade are discussing whether or not he might kill Spade. Spade knows where the black bird is and says that this is why fat man won't kill him. Fat man says that if Spade doesn't give him the falcon, well...in the heat of the moment, a man could sometimes forget where his best interests lie.

Well reasoned Thundah, I'll get back you on this tonight after my son's gone to bed 

[lister]

As if anyone is able to find where my country is. And that is after they figure out that Slovenia is not Slovakia and that they just nuked the wrong people. And even then, with all the hills, mountains, valleys and caves nuclear blast would be far less effective compared to one in more rational kind of a geography. And all of the houses around here have basements... 

[Don Pablo]

As if anyone is able to find where my country is. And that is after they figure out that Slovenia is not Slovakia and that they just nuked the wrong people. And even then, with all the hills, mountains, valleys and caves nuclear blast would be far less effective compared to one in more rational kind of a geography. And all of the houses around here have basements... 

What and where is Slovenia? 

[pfrsantos]

As if anyone is able to find where my country is. And that is after they figure out that Slovenia is not Slovakia and that they just nuked the wrong people. And even then, with all the hills, mountains, valleys and caves nuclear blast would be far less effective compared to one in more rational kind of a geography. And all of the houses around here have basements... 

What and where is Slovenia? 

Who cares?! Nothing ever happens there...

Show content

If you're going to look for an interesting country, look for Fastvenia!

 

[Vidar]

I think it was one half of Czechoslovenia?

[lister]

Security through obscurity... 

[Don Pablo]

Security through obscurity... 

Any security experts that think that's a real thing need to be "retrained". 

[Vidar]

Nah, you can't attack what you can't find - and that is if you think of it in the first place. It makes total sense.

Almost like my very easy fast forward in customs. If I'm picked random controls I just say I come from Norway. The custom officers then just looks bewildered at each other, before stating something like "there is just nothing worth smuggling here from Norway" and hurrying me along. The first time I was a bit offended, but I can't think of anything worth smuggling either..

Of course now if I go to Canada I might go try smuggling knives that might be partially opened with a flick of the wrist... 

[Syncop8r]

mmmmmm.... Souvlakia 

[lister]

Security through obscurity... 

Any security experts that think that's a real thing need to be "retrained". 

You just can't imagine how obscure can some parts of the world get. 

[pomsbz]

Security through obscurity... 

Any security experts that think that's a real thing need to be "retrained". 

You just can't imagine how obscure can some parts of the world get. 

Especially Europe where the countries borders, names and loyalties shift, change or disappear once every 50 years at a maximum.

[eamo]

As if anyone is able to find where my country is. And that is after they figure out that Slovenia is not Slovakia and that they just nuked the wrong people. And even then, with all the hills, mountains, valleys and caves nuclear blast would be far less effective compared to one in more rational kind of a geography. And all of the houses around here have basements... 

i was going to say i'd been to slovenia, but i looked at a map and i realised it was slovakia 

[Don Pablo]

As if anyone is able to find where my country is. And that is after they figure out that Slovenia is not Slovakia and that they just nuked the wrong people. And even then, with all the hills, mountains, valleys and caves nuclear blast would be far less effective compared to one in more rational kind of a geography. And all of the houses around here have basements... 

i was going to say i'd been to slovenia, but i looked at a map and i realised it was slovakia 

[Pacu]

I'll be dead quickly. East Texas oil fields are prime targets. If i do live guess I'll arm up and move Northish. Dallas to the west will be a wasteland as well as south down by Houston. Maybe join a scavenger gang and take over a Costco or Sams. Negan it up. Avoid FEMA. Start the Reformed United States.

Hunt down the last case of Big Red and Little Debbie Swiss Cake rolls.

[ddogu]

I'd probably run for/drive to the nearest shelter and spend all my phone charge to call and message family and friends, pick them up if possible.

If there was absolutely nowhere safe to run, guess I would enter the nearest bakery and enjoy as much cakes and donuts and everything as possible. And once I found out  that it was a false alarm, I'd start thinking about how to lose all those calories...

[Syncop8r]

If their main aim is to spread fear then they have already won.