Have Leatherman forsaken us? Is it time to move on?

[BigMatt]

Hi guys.
I might be changing camps soon. I have a long history with LM tools and a lot of sentiment for them but I need stuff that works and makes my life and work as easy as possible. In my opinion update to the Surge was the last highlight, since then my love for LM is fading with every year. Instead of improving and developing existing tools they go in to keyrings and knives and other snowboard faff. And now this: replecable cutters on the Wave/Charge like that!!?? How little metal is left in there? I'm so happy I have invested in a Recharge years ago, now I know it will be the best LM option for another 10 years...

For me Leatherman is currently running 70% on reputation and their warranty policy. But from usability point of view they are no longer the best on the market, they have been mached by SOG, Swisstool and (I can't belive I'm saying this) Gerber. Have you seen SOG poweraccess deluxe or powerpint or powerplay? Or the update to Gerber suspension! All blades available from outside, bit holders, long screwdrivers, real steinless steel, pouches with accessories....

But it's more important to release £200 metal bracelet, £500 watch or reheat oldest tool for £300 instead of innowating and leading the industry.

What do you think, are you looking around to change your main mt? Just trying to share my dissapointment...

[Raoul Octav]

every company has its moments, when they need to readjust.
The Tread is very cool, i own one, usable for some. The manufacturing process is really expensive. The TEMPO is waaaaay to expensive, they could have partnered with Timex/Casio .
The new additions , replaceable wire cutters, should have been implemented years ago, indeed.
The multitool market is somewhat oversaturated with products, and they need to come with something new
My guess is that they will come with something new, fresh like a multitool that transforms (imagine a handel that comes out from your multitool, real easy, and you have a pocket knife)

[EZrider]

As long as the LM tools you own, which should last you a very long time, are doing the job intended why bother about what they release this or next year or whether the new wave may or may not be as good as the old.

If LM were to vanish tomorrow I have enough of their tools to last a lifetime, and my son’s, without having to resort to Power this or Suspension that.

If you like a tool by Gerber or such buy it, you don’t have forsake something that works because you perceive something else is better.

[Wspeed]

I don't know about moving on 
But you are right that leatherman should be more concentrating
On there multitool development rather
than coming out with a overpriced bracelet 

[kaput]

ABSOLOUTLEY NOT, to answer the question.

People get wrapped up with innovation sometimes too much when it comes to these tools. These aren't iPhone and need the latest and greatest flux capacitor and so on.

When it comes to tools, there is tried and true. And Leathermans are tried and true. 

[Lynn LeFey]

they have been mached by SOG...

 

Wait... are you serious?

How many UTTER failures have we seen from SOG in the last... what? FIVE years? You're betting on the new line of stuff to not suck, when it is, at this moment, vaporware. And even once it's out in the field, SOG has failed from design to manufacture.

Now, I am completely HOPING for a hit with the Powerpint. It's a niche I feel has opportunity, and the design looks promising.

But saying SOG has beat Leatherman is... optimistic at best.

[SteveC]

Absoloutley not.

I agree 


Seems to be a lot of ranting and raving and Leatherman bashing going on these days. If you aren't happy then maybe you should move on. As far as the replaceable cutters go people have been asking for that for years now. Leatherman comes through and now people are bitching about them not being strong enough before they have even been tried out.

Like I said in the other thread I'm sure LM tested out the new plier head before putting them into production.

The Tread has been out for a few years now so why the ranting about it now ?

Also don't know what you mean by real Stainless steel     Leatherman has always used real Stainless steel.

[Lynn LeFey]

I think the issue is corrosion. AND I think that could be solved with higher polish on the tools.

I'm not sure if Leatherman's reputation for corrosion is deserved. I've had a number of rusty Leatherman tools, but never ones I got new, and all of them have been early 90s. That's a lot of time for mistreatment. Again, I DO think this could be mitigated by higher polish though. Maybe THAT is what was meant by 'real stainless'?

[BigMatt]

Just to say I'm not bashing Leatherman, still 90% of what me, my partner and my father in law is rocking. Just venting my dissapointment and disbelief at their R&D departament.
Regarding the new pliers, they could have just dropped the rebar plier in, all it's needed is 1mm off the plier head or a modification to the scissors. What this "update" means is that they reviewed this model, changed one thing (half ar**d for me) and it will stay like that for another 7 years. So the chance to improve their best tool is wasted.
And yes, I'm really impressed with SOG, they are trying very hard, innowating and inventing, sooner or later their tools will be better/more functional than Leathermans, and it will break my heart.

Leatherman described it's steel as "An improved, high-carbon (HC) form of 420 stainless steel that works well with high production tooling. 420HC's strength is optimised in Leatherman multi-tools by heat treatment." Is there such thing as "high carbon steinless steel"? Regardless, in my experience it does not behave as steinless steel, they shoud add a can of WD40 with every tool.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Leatherman stay at the top and get my tools from them for the rest of my life. But the way they are currently going they might end up like Blackberry...

[kaput]

Answer me this. We'll take another brand for instance, same idea, but for some reason the heat is on Leatherman... When was the last time Victorinox came out with a plier based multitool? Do they need to reinvent the wheel (tool)? Or have they nailed it in form and function?

Or, do you need a belt buckle multitool?

[BigMatt]

Answer me this. We'll take another brand for instance, same idea, but for some reason the heat is on Leatherman... When was the last time Victorinox came out with a plier based multitool? Do they need to reinvent the wheel (tool)? Or have they nailed it in form and function?

Or, do you need a belt buckle multitool?

That is a main reason I'm not in to swisstool. It was good "back in the day" and the only pssible competition to LM. But now they are in the same boat as LM regarding tools, luckily for Victorinox they are living off their pocket knives which they are constantly developing.

Answering your question, at the moment I would take SOG or Gerber over swisstool purely for the usability and convenience and new ideas. If I was looking for my first multitool I would be 50/50 between SOG, Leatherman and new Gerber...

And commenting on your sarcasm, I think belt buckle tool is much better idea than Thruster, Rail or Juice CS3.

[kaput]

Answer me this. We'll take another brand for instance, same idea, but for some reason the heat is on Leatherman... When was the last time Victorinox came out with a plier based multitool? Do they need to reinvent the wheel (tool)? Or have they nailed it in form and function?

Or, do you need a belt buckle multitool?

That is a main reason I'm not in to swisstool. It was good "back in the day" and the only pssible competition to LM. But now they are in the same boat as LM regarding tools, luckily for Victorinox they are living off their pocket knives which they are constantly developing.

Answering your question, at the moment I would take SOG or Gerber over swisstool purely for the usability and convenience and new ideas. If I was looking for my first multitool I would be 50/50 between SOG, Leatherman and new Gerber...

And commenting on your sarcasm, I think belt buckle tool is much better idea than Thruster, Rail or Juice CS3.

I still would consider the swisstools as a top tier tool. If they worked great when they came out, do they not work great now? Also they have the high polish mentioned about corrosion resistance. SOG and Gerber tumble and stone washes not so much.

The good thing about these various companies is the various designs and implementation. Meaning that there should be something for everyone. Although most of us could find a tweak or two to almost any tool/manufacturer out there.

I also understand people wanting something new from Leatherman, I think it's in part because they know the quality and value the tool offers the working person. BUT, that does not mean that the tools they have in there arsenal are not worthy and able to accomplish a plethora of tasks.

My comment about the belt buckle was meant to point the fact if you're looking for something specialized and unique, extremely handy for certain situations, but not all. Or a tried and true design. I myself understand that a multitool in theory is a Jack of all trades master of none.

[Wspeed]

What they need to start producing is multitools for selected trades 
Like mechanics, electricians, carpentry, engineering, etc 
I don't want a bottle opener or a fish hook remover for instance 
We need more proper tooling 

[in_sympathy]

This entire topic reminds me of all the same noise when Signal came out. Most of us laughed at it even before trying it out just by looking at it’s pictures. Then some have tried it out and said it’s amazing. Just give those new tools some time and we’ll see if it’s worth it. Don’t judge something you need to hold in your hand by just looking at it with your eyes

[WWW]

I don't have that much of a problem with their new offerings, I just wished they had better quality control. I will not be the one to pretend to be super happy with the current innovations, but I like the variety. I did lost a little faith in them and may have bashed them just a little, but quality wise they don't seem to hold up compared to something like the Spirit (from what I hear). But compare it to SOG and Gerber do seem a little bit of a stretch.

What they need to start producing is multitools for selected trades 
Like mechanics, electricians, carpentry, engineering, etc 
I don't want a bottle opener or a fish hook remover for instance 
We need more proper tooling 

Amen to that, more specific tools would be awesome!


Anyways, I'm saving for a Spirit, if it meet/exceed my expectations I may stay neutral on the Swiss side for a while...

[SteveC]

Having just completed the 30 day Spirit challenge for me it has nothing on the Rebar.

They both have there pluses and minuses .

[zoidberg]

Having just completed the 30 day Spirit challenge for me it has nothing on the Rebar.

They both have there pluses and minuses .

Haven't read the challenge thread yet, which one did you get?

[Nix]

I too am running in the Spirit challenge with Steve. I gotta say, while I really like the Spirit, the LM Rebar has won a place on my belt. I'm not sure I care if LM never makes another model of multitool.

[SteveC]

Having just completed the 30 day Spirit challenge for me it has nothing on the Rebar.

They both have there pluses and minuses .

Haven't read the challenge thread yet, which one did you get?

The BO  S model

I got it used , the pliers have a bit of play in them but I like it overall.

[David Bowen]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately believe it or not. I pose the question; how much more innovation can come to the current multitool market? Ever since the first model from Leatherman they have made improvements and design changes. Leatherman has come to a point where they are still innovating and have produced new ideas such as the Tread and the Signal. Deep down they all revolve around the same model/design. They all have pliers and they all have handles. Most have butterfly opening with a few exceptions here and there. I feel the current designs like the Wave style and the traditional style (rebar) are perfect. How much more can they change or improve said models. I've stated before that I feel Leatherman peaked in the mid 2ks.

SOG is doing an amazing job in terms of innovation. For so long they rested on their laurels and stayed with the same models. They have had a massive shift in recent years trying to breathe life into the tool market. I applaud their efforts with the new tools coming out, they are trying hard to create new exciting designs and get their QC under control. Tools like the Baton series and the Sync show that there are still some cool ideas out there without relying on the same design model. In the end though,  the Power Access, Power Pint etc are nothing more than SOG branded Swiss Tools. Anything that strays from the standard model I highly praise.

Deep down I feel most of what's on the market are excellent tools and some are to the point of perfection. They could stop innovating now and the tool lovers of this world would be completely satisfied. Personally I love the Wave/Charge design is perfect and I don't see them changing it much more. I don't think adding cutters means they can milk us and charge extra for them but it was a design change that was overdue. The current model is a tired and worn out model that's been done to death, but how many other ways can you design a set of pocket pliers.

We continue to demand more out of Leatherman, SOG, Gerber, etc because we know there are still good ideas out there and the next big thing is on the horizon.

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[Outback in Idaho]

  Not jumping ship. Leatherman has a 25 year warranty, and I'e not had any issues of concern over the warranty. The tools still function like they have when i bought them, save the Crunch replacement ... the pliers don't like to stay down when closing/opening, functionality is still the same.

  Kept hoping for a Charge sized Mini-Surge to come out.

  Innovation isn't Leatherman's strong point in the past couple of years. I do regret giving the Tread away as the various hex bits did work great on the TerraTrike Rover. If there was a Leatherman Tread for $100 I might get one. At their current price, NFW. And a watch had to take up the stress when the bracelet is used as a tool. Was NOT impressed with the can opener on the Tread as the locking-clasp pin was hollow and that can the can opener & locking mechanism.
  With the locking mechanism, basically a 1/4" socket adapter with only one ball bearing spring to keep it close, one would have to bend the locking-clasp back in a lot to keep the bracelet locked. Catch a ball, melon, grapefruit, or have some sort of hand jarring going on and the Treat would open up. Most annoying. Maybe if it had two socket locks it would stay in the locked position better.

  Leatherman is still a good product with a decent warranty.

[mcb]

rambling post on why I am not ready to leave Leatherman yet...

I came to Leatherman from Gerber.  My first multi-tool was a mid 90's Gerber Multi-pliers (Mr Pinchy) it lived in my commuter pack for working on my commuter bike while in grad school.  I carried a Gerber Crucial in my pocket and a Gerber Clutch on my key ring.

I can still remember the first time I picked up a Skeletool.  It had everything my Crucial did in a better package with replaceable screw drive bits.  I went out an bought one immediately.  The Skeletool is my most carried and most used multi-tool.  Short there after a Style CS replace my Clutch and Mr Pinchy got replaced with a Blast, then a MUT and finally settled on a Surge.

I tried SOG, the Reactor was my first try and was junk IMHO flimsy and awkward to use.  The only redeeming quality was the pliers mechanical advantage and that did not make up for all the other failings.  I would go back to my Crucial before carrying the Reactor.  It sits, un-used, in drawer somewhere.  I also got a Power Access on the group buy here and its considerably better than the Reactor but it is still not in Leatherman's class IMHO.  Again the pliers with their mechanical advantage is very nice but everything else comes in second or worst compared to Leatherman.  The Power Access is what I carry when I might loose it to security or TSA.

The replaceable cutters on the Wave/Charge family is big to me.  I might actually buy one now.  I bough the Surge instead of the wave due to the replace cutter.  Of everything I saw at Shot Show nothing in the multi-tool world really jump out at me.  The new plus versions of the Wave and Charge were one of the better new things I saw IMHO.

[LoopCutter]

No, I think they have been distracted trying to read implement all the ideas on several forums and then meetings to decide which distraction makes money. 

I still can not believe the tread is profitable and the first PST Tim L sold was for $175 US. 
My tools have been a real bargain. 


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[ThundahBeagle]

Answer me this. We'll take another brand for instance, same idea, but for some reason the heat is on Leatherman... When was the last time Victorinox came out with a plier based multitool? Do they need to reinvent the wheel (tool)? Or have they nailed it in form and function?

Or, do you need a belt buckle multitool?

That is a main reason I'm not in to swisstool. It was good "back in the day" and the only pssible competition to LM. But now they are in the same boat as LM regarding tools, luckily for Victorinox they are living off their pocket knives which they are constantly developing.

Answering your question, at the moment I would take SOG or Gerber over swisstool purely for the usability and convenience and new ideas. If I was looking for my first multitool I would be 50/50 between SOG, Leatherman and new Gerber...

And commenting on your sarcasm, I think belt buckle tool is much better idea than Thruster, Rail or Juice CS3.

Wait, what?! There's a belt buckle tool?

Who's producing that and where do I get one?

[ThundahBeagle]

What they need to start producing is multitools for selected trades 
Like mechanics, electricians, carpentry, engineering, etc 
I don't want a bottle opener or a fish hook remover for instance 
We need more proper tooling 

While I don't knock any tradesman who carries a Leatherman, I don't want my mechanic or electrician half a$$ing it. Those folks should always be working with dedicated tools, with Leatherman as a back-up just to hold a nut while turning a bolt or something.

Big fan of the Vic bottle opener, and a fish hook remover comes in handy for someone who is fishing and camping, etc.

Proper tooling for the trades is best left to proper tools. That being said, I wouldn't mind if Leatherman decided to produce a nice 10 inch linesmans plyers with New England tip and side cutters. Or some other quality dedicated tools like a precision screw driver set

[kaput]

Answer me this. We'll take another brand for instance, same idea, but for some reason the heat is on Leatherman... When was the last time Victorinox came out with a plier based multitool? Do they need to reinvent the wheel (tool)? Or have they nailed it in form and function?

Or, do you need a belt buckle multitool?

That is a main reason I'm not in to swisstool. It was good "back in the day" and the only pssible competition to LM. But now they are in the same boat as LM regarding tools, luckily for Victorinox they are living off their pocket knives which they are constantly developing.

Answering your question, at the moment I would take SOG or Gerber over swisstool purely for the usability and convenience and new ideas. If I was looking for my first multitool I would be 50/50 between SOG, Leatherman and new Gerber...

And commenting on your sarcasm, I think belt buckle tool is much better idea than Thruster, Rail or Juice CS3.

Wait, what?! There's a belt buckle tool?

Who's producing that and where do I get one?

SOG sync series. Should be elavailable everywhere 

[David Bowen]

Answer me this. We'll take another brand for instance, same idea, but for some reason the heat is on Leatherman... When was the last time Victorinox came out with a plier based multitool? Do they need to reinvent the wheel (tool)? Or have they nailed it in form and function?

Or, do you need a belt buckle multitool?

That is a main reason I'm not in to swisstool. It was good "back in the day" and the only pssible competition to LM. But now they are in the same boat as LM regarding tools, luckily for Victorinox they are living off their pocket knives which they are constantly developing.

Answering your question, at the moment I would take SOG or Gerber over swisstool purely for the usability and convenience and new ideas. If I was looking for my first multitool I would be 50/50 between SOG, Leatherman and new Gerber...

And commenting on your sarcasm, I think belt buckle tool is much better idea than Thruster, Rail or Juice CS3.

Wait, what?! There's a belt buckle tool?

Who's producing that and where do I get one?

They're produced by SOG and they came out last year. They are called the Sync I and HI.

https://store.multitool.org/sog/sog-sunc-i-25.html
https://store.multitool.org/sog/sog-sync-ii-27.html

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[zoidberg]

Having just completed the 30 day Spirit challenge for me it has nothing on the Rebar.

They both have there pluses and minuses .

Haven't read the challenge thread yet, which one did you get?

The BO  S model

I got it used , the pliers have a bit of play in them but I like it overall.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

What a looker.      

[ironraven]

"Foresaken" implies there is more relationship than an arms length commercial one.

I use Leatherman because I find that their tools feel good in my hand and they work well, with a reasonable price point. Their tools are a higher carbon steel than some might like, but that is personal preference. I've taken rust off my Leatherman because they get used in cars above the snow line during winter- that isn't a failing, it's just a tool that requires attention. So do my Ka-bars and older Hunters and Shrade fixed blades, my electricians' knife, my good hammer, my hatchet and my pistols, not to mention my car. I prefer a carbon steel to many stainless alloys.

Some of their tools I dislike. Intensely. I find their recent offerings to be over specialized, or just phoned in. QC has gone down and prices are going up. Models I don't like I don't buy. I have no obligation to do so.

When the calculus between function, fit, and price stops working for me, I will look for an alternative vendor.

[Lynn LeFey]

Models I don't like I don't buy. I have no obligation to do so.

Yup. This.