SAK a "weapon?!"

[twiliter]

You yougens dont know how much freedom you have lost. As a grade schooler I carried my 22rabbit rifle on my bicycle to class then stored it in my locker till school let out. Then me and several other boys would take them out and go hunting as soon as school let out.
Try that now, there would be 16 SWAT teams and 6 companies of Marines storming the classroom.

Hell, I'm not even all that old (38) and I remember seeing hunting rifles and shotguns in the rear windows of trucks in the parking lot in high school.  Guys would get up early to hunt before school.  I carried a SAK all through high school as well.  Nobody batted an eye at any of that stuff, and it wasn't too long ago.

Used to see that a lot as well, but nowadays thieves will cost you a $300 side window to steal a $20 iPod. Pathetic innit? 

[Top-Gear-24]

You yougens dont know how much freedom you have lost. As a grade schooler I carried my 22rabbit rifle on my bicycle to class then stored it in my locker till school let out. Then me and several other boys would take them out and go hunting as soon as school let out.
Try that now, there would be 16 SWAT teams and 6 companies of Marines storming the classroom.

Hell, I'm not even all that old (38) and I remember seeing hunting rifles and shotguns in the rear windows of trucks in the parking lot in high school.  Guys would get up early to hunt before school.  I carried a SAK all through high school as well.  Nobody batted an eye at any of that stuff, and it wasn't too long ago.

I hear you mate, I'm 40 and when I was 16 I bought my first Leatherman (original Supertool) and carried it every day to high school, and in weekends when going out ... Never had any problems (and I used to pull it out every time I had the chance, since I was so proud to own this beautiful piece of engineering, these days I'll take a good look around even before I use my Swisschamp in public ...  ).

P.S.: No need for puns about the "I used to pull it out every time I had the chance" part guys  .

[twiliter]

More coffee (or beer) = more chances... 

[Butch]

sigh.... ...............

[Alan K.]

Places with no weapons policies irritate me to no end.  I can always defend myself with my Irish Blackthorn cane or a change purse (a sock with a couple of rolls of quarters in it) but if they're that concerned about a Swiss Army Knife I probably don't want to go there.

[Don Pablo]

A sock with a weight in it can be dangerous. 

[Nix]

I carried a SAK all through high school as well.  Nobody batted an eye at any of that stuff, and it wasn't too long ago.

My Grandfather, the same one who gave me my first SAK, also gave me a switchblade. I carried that all through High School, discreetly, but without a concern in the world. That was a sweet knife. A cheap Italian model, but a sweet knife.

No doubt that knife would land me in juvenile detention now.  ***sigh***

[gustophersmob]

I kinda wonder--do they let martial artists in there? I'm sure they could kill people with their bare hands.  Instead of actually stopping those who do evil, these wannabe cops, or "rent a cops" as a friend calls them,  are too busy hassling the average citizen about a small pocketknife.

I don't think it has anything to do with private security, or "rent a cops," if you will. Regular cops hassle citizens all the time.

[smiller43147]

While I also lament the trend considering anything with a blade as a weapon, at least they let you check it, and not have to choose between not entering the park or discarding the SAK (like TSA).

[Justin Barylski]

Sad times for the Knife and MT community. Unfortunately I see little chance of these so-called "common sense" weapon laws being changed any time soon.

[shadowrider]

While I also lament the trend considering anything with a blade as a weapon, at least they let you check it, and not have to choose between not entering the park or discarding the SAK (like TSA).

I know right? Why doesn't TSA offer a service where they give you the chance to ship your knife (or whatever it is they're confiscating) to your home address? They could charge a fee for this and make a good profit too.

[ironraven]

When I was in high school, the science department ran hunting pools. And you brought a firearm or a bow on campus, you had to tell the assistant headmaster about it the day before, bring it too him IMMEDIATELY in the morning, and lock the ammo in your vehicle. You signed it in, and then you signed it back out at the end of the day. Hell, we had pellet guns and 20 pound recurves in an unlocked storage room off the gym. And there was a rifle team- they were locked up in the lady gym coach's office (she ran the rifle teams). And it wasn't all that long ago.

Could you carry a knife? A switch blade or a balisong or a fixed blade, or even a full sized Buck folder on your belt? No. A SAK or a small folder? Did you have a shop or ag class? Did you have a shop or ag class and forget your knife? You might get a lecture about coming to class unprepared.

I understand their point though.

Sure, and if we're going to recognize that as a valid point, better start banning humans. Humans can use anything as a weapon given sufficient motivation or training. Intent is the difference between "weapon" and "tool". Only idiots and cowards can not make the distinction. Two classes of lifeform I do not wish to associate with, so places where I can't have a knife get my patronage only if there are very unusual circumstances- like I'm going to the state house. Oh, wait, in Vermont, you can have a SAK with you in the state house!

[pomsbz]

Places with no weapons policies irritate me to no end.  I can always defend myself with my Irish Blackthorn cane or a change purse (a sock with a couple of rolls of quarters in it) but if they're that concerned about a Swiss Army Knife I probably don't want to go there.

Like you I walk with an Irish Blackthorn cane. Now what could do more damage, that or a SAK Classic?  But I can take my stick on the plane That said they did xray my stick in Ireland to make sure the head wasn't loaded. If it had been I wouldn't have been able to take it on. I think that was a sensible way to go about it.

Sure, and if we're going to recognize that as a valid point, better start banning humans. Humans can use anything as a weapon given sufficient motivation or training. Intent is the difference between "weapon" and "tool". Only idiots and cowards can not make the distinction. Two classes of lifeform I do not wish to associate with, so places where I can't have a knife get my patronage only if there are very unusual circumstances- like I'm going to the state house. Oh, wait, in Vermont, you can have a SAK with you in the state house!

That's the problem. You can't go after the humans. It's against the laws and costs far too much money. Instead they ban the tools to try to persuade the masses that the politicians are doing something and do random searches at airports and hope that the 1 out of 4 people patted down will turn out to be the terrorist.

[EMZ]

I kinda wonder--do they let martial artists in there? I'm sure they could kill people with their bare hands.  Instead of actually stopping those who do evil, these wannabe cops, or "rent a cops" as a friend calls them,  are too busy hassling the average citizen about a small pocketknife.

Give a monkey a banana, and he will eat it.
Give a monkey power, and he will use it.

[Blackbeard]

well the govt has made a small fortune seizing and reselling all manner of saks, mt's and knives since 9/11 it's really sad that its the case, and in direct opposition to the constitution on the grounds of keeping people safe, yet that remains to be seen as evidenced by all the mass murders since 9/11

[dks]

I think we should not really be blaming the people, the security guards or the airport police/agents for that.

I am sure that they have instructions from their employers on what to do - if they do not understand them or if they are not very clear then their employer will need to clarify them.

Calling them names because they are doing what they are paid/told to do is not helping the issue, as the decisions that are made and need to be changed are taken higher up.

I know many here have done security related work and know how it works - there may be some flexibility, but if the rule is no knives then they do not have much choice.

[twiliter]

I agree DKS, it is definitely a policy problem, and the employees have no power to change it, but I have been hassled unnecessarily when I know I was not breaking any laws or rules, and treated as if I was. Some of the employees use whatever flexibility they have to harrass people for their own amusement. I am not making this up, I have seen it. There is good and bad in all things, but these policies bring out the worst in *some* people in my experience. I would probably think it was normal if it was always this way, but the trouble is that it used to be different.

[Syncop8r]

Yes, you can use almost anything else as a weapon, but a pocket knife can easily deliver a fatal stab to the chest.
I read more about stabbings than assaults with other improvised weapons.

[cbl51]

Places with no weapons policies irritate me to no end.  I can always defend myself with my Irish Blackthorn cane or a change purse (a sock with a couple of rolls of quarters in it) but if they're that concerned about a Swiss Army Knife I probably don't want to go there.

This!!!^^^^^

If they don't trust me with what I carry, then I don't trust them and I won't be going there.

[gadgetman7]

I have zero sympathy for the security employees. A line in a song says,”Just because it’s your job old boy sure don’t make it right. If you want I’ll say a prayer for your soul tonight. “ (John Cougar)

I have twenty years of martial arts training and have worked along side law enforcement for thirty years. Lots of good guys but definitely a contingent of bullies too. Private security seems to be the worst.

As far as policies go, those are typically a product of risk averse attorneys who over hype issues to make their own jobs easier. All of this is just my opinion though.


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[ThePeacent]

and the media doesn't help.
In a week, I've seen a SAK used to kill somebody (The Hitman's Bodyguard), a LM Wave used to stab to death some poor guy (Proof Of Life), and a LM OHT put at someone's neck threatening to kill them.

No wonder mst TV Couch potatoes (that is, the majority of those around us) see them that way   

[Guardian]

I think we should not really be blaming the people, the security guards or the airport police/agents for that.

I am sure that they have instructions from their employers on what to do - if they do not understand them or if they are not very clear then their employer will need to clarify them.

Calling them names because they are doing what they are paid/told to do is not helping the issue, as the decisions that are made and need to be changed are taken higher up.

I know many here have done security related work and know how it works - there may be some flexibility, but if the rule is no knives then they do not have much choice.

+1

[Guardian]

A walk in the park

Police officer -- What´s that, Sir?
Me -- It´s my 30 SAK belt, Officer.
Po  -- Are you Batman?
Me -- Yes, Officer.
Po -- Carry on, Sir!

  The Dutch are sooooo laid back....

[Greg Jones]

I miss the old days, there's nothing I can add that hasn't been said
 

[AndyTiedye]

While I also lament the trend considering anything with a blade as a weapon, at least they let you check it, and not have to choose between not entering the park or discarding the SAK (like TSA).

I know right? Why doesn't TSA offer a service where they give you the chance to ship your knife (or whatever it is they're confiscating) to your home address? They could charge a fee for this and make a good profit too.

There is such a service at SFO. I have used it several times. It isn't run by the TSA but by a company called "Airport Mailers".  Costs about $20.

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[Kampfer]

Those parks give me so much heat over my Espada...

[VIXADDICT]

Unfortunately we start to have here in France the same kind of problem... 

I carried a knife since I'm a young boy (10 y/o more or less) and never had any problem or "accident". I started with Sak, then get teenage-stupid and bought some >4" blades locking, serrated and stuff because looked cool, then had my Buck 110 period and finally came back to my Sak love. Nerver any trouble, never any accident and countless usefull situations.

In the recent years I found myself more and more in trouble with the law, without actually being an outlaw! First time in an airport where the security stole my rambler. Really? Can someone do some harm with a rambler??!

I then had trouble in some parks. Disneyland Paris is also very strict on knifes. Got to get back to the hotel to let my explorer in the room. Ironically, I found myself in need of it in the park because 1) I didn't have any blade to cut my apple and 2) after late day souvenir shopping, the plastic bag was damned heavy in my hand and I would have like to have my explorer's hook.

Same problem again in "Puy du Fou". It's a park focused on history in France, great park (my favorite), I recommend it to anyone who visit France 
There again, my little explorer did not made the security guys happy. I protested but the guy was ready to call the militaries that were patrolling around so I gave up. I couldn't go back to my hotel as it was 30min faraway and did not wanted to lose an hour traveling so I ended up hiding my Sak in some trees...

These metal detectors now pop up everywhere in France and are a real pain. In parks, museums, work buildings and now even in some shops! I can't believe our society have become so paranoid... Everytime happened I felt like they removed from me some kind of my freedom... When the security agents are older, they are often more soft with traditional folders but there are less and less...

As for the airports, my current solution is a victorinox promotional swisscard I got last year. I removed the small blade and still get toothpick, tweezers, nail file, pen, pin and the great 4 in 1 screwdriver. Better than nothing for travels and never any problem with the airport security 

[sergemaster]

Amici,
Two quick links back from 2013, the first is when the TSA and the Federal Government had initially ruled that Swiss army and any type blade 3" and under would be allowed back on flights:

 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/tsa-small-pocketknives-back-airplanes-time-9-11-article-1.1279964

The second is when they caved due to pressure from the flight attendants union and the flock of misinformed sheeple that equivocate either a rambler or a super tinker with a WMD..  This attempt at common sense sanity occurred during the Obummer regime mind you:

 https://www.theblaze.com/news/2013/06/05/tsa-caves-to-criticism-and-will-renew-ban-on-small-knives-on-planes

It seems that folks still haven't gotten it into their thick heads to sit there quietly as folks were told to do during the hijacking of airlines in the 1970's & 1980's where you fly to an unknown destination and the baddies storm off, with bags of ransom money was passe.  That if something like that was to occur now, the best defense is offense, as in,' Let's Roll!!"...

Cheers,
Serge

[Butch]

Short and sweet of it for me, if they do not trust me, I do not trust them. I will not do business with any outfit that tries to disarm me.

[VIXADDICT]

Here is my airport friendly kit 



About knife regulation, I think it's a big joke. Clearly you shouldn't allow one to carry a machette on a plane, it's non sense, but any pocket or sheath folding knife should not cause any problem. Really, do you believe one idiot with a knife could take over a plane? You have 150-300 passengers in a plane, 2 or 3 guys would be enough to avoid one man with a knife to do any harm. I think the legend of box cutter of 9/11 is a misconception. Sure the guys may have brought box cutters or even knives on board but I don't think this would permit them to take over the plane without nobody to react. They must have concealed bombs or something that made the passenger afraid to do anything.

Knives regulation are just a political decision to make people "feel" safer, I don't think this makes plane travel any safer for real...