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Bending a LM tool

ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #30 on: February 08, 2018, 09:21:39 PM
Why do people never point that out to me?
I can't evolve forwards if everyone is like "I'm to polite to say anything about his foul spelling" :facepalm:
I would have said something but I didn’t notice.  :facepalm:
Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!


00 Offline Mechanickal

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #31 on: February 08, 2018, 09:35:24 PM
Why do people never point that out to me?
I can't evolve forwards if everyone is like "I'm to polite to say anything about his foul spelling" :facepalm:
I would have said something but I didn’t notice.  :facepalm:
:rofl:


00 Offline Mechanickal

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #32 on: February 08, 2018, 09:35:35 PM
:b2t:


be Offline Rebelgium

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #33 on: February 09, 2018, 10:40:46 AM
Why do people never point that out to me?
I can't evolve forwards if everyone is like "I'm to polite to say anything about his foul spelling" :facepalm:

I'm not too polite to tell you it's "too polite" instead of "to polite" ;)


But quite interesting indeed, three Belgians in here! I'm sure there are a lot! I myself am responsible for infecting seven other people I can think of off the top of my head. They have all bought Leathermans :)


On topic:
I'm wildcamping this weekend (wildcamping is actually the purpose of this mod) so I won't be able to try to bend the canopener until next week.
I've found a jewellers oven (more than 1000°C) I can use for the tempering, and perhaps the hardening too.

Anyone with experience on bending, annealing, hardening or tempering 420 stainless steel please chime in.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 10:42:17 AM by Rebelgium »


00 Offline Mechanickal

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #34 on: February 09, 2018, 01:46:35 PM
Why do people never point that out to me?
I can't evolve forwards if everyone is like "I'm to polite to say anything about his foul spelling" :facepalm:

I'm not too polite to tell you it's "too polite" instead of "to polite" ;)


But quite interesting indeed, three Belgians in here! I'm sure there are a lot! I myself am responsible for infecting seven other people I can think of off the top of my head. They have all bought Leathermans :)


On topic:
I'm wildcamping this weekend (wildcamping is actually the purpose of this mod) so I won't be able to try to bend the canopener until next week.
I've found a jewellers oven (more than 1000°C) I can use for the tempering, and perhaps the hardening too.

Anyone with experience on bending, annealing, hardening or tempering 420 stainless steel please chime in.
You are right and proper notes have been taken :salute:
Where're you from anyway?
Brussels?
Waloon?
Flanders?


gb Offline Wspeed

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #35 on: February 09, 2018, 02:50:58 PM
Anyway  :b2t: have you had a chance to bent the can opener
And did it work  :tu:
fail to prepare prepare to fail


gb Offline BePrepared

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #36 on: February 09, 2018, 04:14:02 PM
 Rebelgium, I got some spare can openers from LMs.  I can give you one for testing.  PM me an address.  All I ask is for you to post some pics here of a red-hot LM can opener blade! (As long as it's safe to take pics while heating it up!)


gb Offline Wspeed

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #37 on: February 10, 2018, 01:53:39 PM
I am very interested to see what will happen  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
fail to prepare prepare to fail


es Offline ThePeacent

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #38 on: February 10, 2018, 04:08:34 PM
Rebelgium, I got some spare can openers from LMs.  I can give you one for testing.  PM me an address.  All I ask is for you to post some pics here of a red-hot LM can opener blade! (As long as it's safe to take pics while heating it up!)

so, now asking for hot pics as payment huh :pok: you should be ashamed on a public forum!! :twak:   :rofl:
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gb Offline BePrepared

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #39 on: February 10, 2018, 09:37:39 PM
OK, OK, I'd settle for some finished 'well dressed' pics.   :-[

Drop me a PM, Rebelgium, and I'll send you a can opener.


nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #40 on: February 11, 2018, 07:16:59 AM
Bent with a hammer and got to 4mm okay. Kept going for fun, it broke at approx 5mm.



nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #41 on: February 11, 2018, 07:17:58 AM




nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #42 on: February 11, 2018, 07:18:54 AM




nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #43 on: February 11, 2018, 07:24:51 AM
Annealing left it soft enough to work. When hit with a hammer the edge rolled slightly.



nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #44 on: February 11, 2018, 07:27:56 AM
I re heated it with the torch and dipped it in water up to the nail nick.



nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #45 on: February 11, 2018, 07:30:52 AM
Gave it a quick sanding and sharpen. It worked better left handed than right.



nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #46 on: February 11, 2018, 07:42:12 AM
Punched a few more holes...



No sign of wear on the edge. A bent can opener is kinda different but it can work. Hope the pics are of some use.



ie Offline Don Pablo

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #47 on: February 11, 2018, 08:43:18 AM
 :like:
Really cool stuff there!  :o
Hooked, like everyone else. ;)

All hail the hook!


se Offline kottskrapa

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #48 on: February 11, 2018, 09:17:48 AM
Nice work

[It's not failure if you learn something from it]



gb Offline Fuzzbucket

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #49 on: February 11, 2018, 10:43:18 AM
Yessss - nice one Zoidberg!!!  :salute:


gb Offline BePrepared

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #50 on: February 11, 2018, 10:54:30 AM
 :popcorn:  Nice work, and nice pics.  I really like the way the tin-can was decimated.


gb Offline Wspeed

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #51 on: February 11, 2018, 12:52:37 PM
Nicely done Zoidberg  :like:
I Was really interested in the results :tu:
fail to prepare prepare to fail


be Offline Rebelgium

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #52 on: February 12, 2018, 01:02:06 PM
@Mechanickal I'm from Brugge

@bePrepared thanks a lot! PM sent

@Zoidberg wicked! Thanks for the experiments, very interesting!
So let me recap to see if I got this correctly:

Cold bending with hammer snapped the canopener at 5mm deflection.
So you turned to hot bending:
- heat to cherry red
- let cool down slowly by air (=annealing)
- once it cooled down: bend with hammer
- heat up again to cherry red
- dunk in water (=hardening)
- no tempering
- sharpen
- annihilate can

Is this all correct?
Remarks?
Any idea of temperatures?
Do you think the hardening without tempering has left it too brittle for hard use?


gb Offline Wspeed

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #53 on: February 12, 2018, 02:36:24 PM
Looks like Zoidberg did some serious testing on that can in the photos  :think:
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 02:37:30 PM by Wspeed »
fail to prepare prepare to fail


us Offline SteveC

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #54 on: February 12, 2018, 03:08:08 PM
Nicely done zoid !    :like: :tu:


nz Offline zoidberg

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #55 on: February 12, 2018, 09:52:37 PM
@Zoidberg wicked! Thanks for the experiments, very interesting!
So let me recap to see if I got this correctly:

Cold bending with hammer snapped the canopener at 5mm deflection.
So you turned to hot bending:
- heat to cherry red
- let cool down slowly by air (=annealing)
- once it cooled down: bend with hammer
- heat up again to cherry red
- dunk in water (=hardening)
- no tempering
- sharpen
- annihilate can

Is this all correct?

Yes, this is all correct.

Remarks?

Don't bother with cold bending.

Any idea of temperatures?

I think the map fuel flame air temp is around 2000°C.

Do you think the hardening without tempering has left it too brittle for hard use?

Good question. Define hard use. When I can find the time I'll test it to failure.


us Offline Lynn LeFey

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #56 on: February 13, 2018, 12:30:57 AM
Great work on that, Zoidberg.

I wholeheartedly approve of test-to-failure.  :tu:

 :rofl:

If I were to guess, the lack of annealing will leave it more brittle than it was originally, but I'm not sure harder/more brittle is a bad thing with a can opener. They're not really subject to that much flex in use.


no Offline Vidar

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #57 on: February 13, 2018, 12:41:00 AM
Specifications on various alloys usually have some information and specific recipes for annealing and hardening treatments of that particular steel quality. For 420 stainless steel an example can be found at http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/martensitic/420_data_sheet.pdf



"Simple is hard"
"Hard is hard too"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).


us Offline SteveC

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #58 on: February 13, 2018, 01:17:17 AM
Would hardening in oil leave it less brittle ?


no Offline Vidar

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Re: Bending a LM tool
Reply #59 on: February 13, 2018, 04:54:35 AM
Would hardening in oil leave it less brittle ?

According to the spec sheet for 420 stainless steel it should be quenched in warm oil when hardening. As steels can be optimized for hardening with various media I think following the steel manufacturers directions might be a good idea. (Including tempering after quenching to make the right balance between hard/brittle and tough/ flexible).

The overall idea is to quench quick enough to get the part hardened to the required depth but no faster than necessary. Faster cooling increases residual stresses and thus the risk of cracks or deformation. Faster cooling also tends to make harder and more brittle parts.

Water has a lower boiling point than oil and hence cools the part faster. So yes, it will likely be less brittle by oil quenching instead.

(Heat treatment and metallurgy are huge subjects on their own. I'm certainly no speSmurfpillst in either by any means, but the above is my big picture understanding summarized in a few lines).


« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 04:56:46 AM by Vidar »
"Simple is hard"
"Hard is hard too"
(Partial disclosure: I design tools for a living).


 

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